Killers of the Flower Moon - Scorsese, Dicaprio, De Niro - 10.20.2023 release

[mchookem 16329]

2 hours ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Good to see Jesse Plemons continue to advance his career since FNL.

He is a great guy and has done very well for himself.

of all the FNL alumni i never would have picked Landry as having the most prolific/successful post-FNL career 😄

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

2 hours ago, usmc0331horn said:

Great actor who gets to hit Kirsten Dunst every night. Dude has it made.

Pshh, no way Kirsten let's him hit that every night.  They are married after all. 

[Teebox 89]

3.5 hours?   I'm sorry, I liked the book but somebody needs to have enough balls to properly edit a Scorcese film.

[Deej 76761]

Reviews that I've read don't seem all that enamored by it. 

[Reynolds Woodcock 4739]

Have tickets Saturday night at the BK drafthouse for 8pm. Baby sitter booked until 12:30. I love Marty, but really concerned about my ability to stay awake.

[kevwun 15775]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

Reviews that I've read don't seem all that enamored by it. 

It's a horrifying story and just when you think justice was finally done, it goes back to being horrifying.  Everyone leaving the theatre is going to be depressed.  Hard to rave about a movie when you feel awful about what you just saw.  This is Schindler's List if the Nazis ended up winning the war 10 years later.

Edited October 19, 2023 by kevwun

[mchookem 16329]

i mean i realize there's been some fuckery with reviews... but it's at 95% on RT. the negative reviews seem to either feel it's just too long (prolly true but it's an epic story so...) or it focuses too much on the antagonists rather than the victims (which is kind of a Scorsese trademark).

anyways... going this evening, can't wait!

[C-Man 27219]

CNN review isn't glowing and says it's too long.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/19/entertainment/killers-of-the-flower-moon-review/index.html

Edited October 19, 2023 by C-Man

[Deej 76761]

42 minutes ago, kevwun said:

It's a horrifying story and just when you think justice was finally done, it goes back to being horrifying.  Everyone leaving the theatre is going to be depressed.  Hard to rave about a movie when you feel awful about what you just saw.  This is Schindler's List if the Nazis ended up winning the war 10 years later.

I get the regular audience members feeling that way, but I'm talking about actual critic reviews, and it doesn't seem to be about the content. 

[YChang 3443]

NYTimes: An Unsettling Masterpiece

[GhostOfTomJoad 9324]

5 hours ago, Teebox said:

3.5 hours?   I'm sorry, I liked the book but somebody needs to have enough balls to properly edit a Scorcese film.

Yeah...I mean, Scorsese keeps working with that hack Thelma Schoonmaker and she's only won 3 Oscars with 5 other nominations for editing his films.

Marty's 80 years old. There hasn't been a more influential or important filmmaker in the past half century. His work in film preservation alone is legendary. If anyone gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to storytelling and the length of a movie it's him.

[atomheartbevo 89656]

I sat through Gettysburg in the theater, which included about 90 minutes of men just staring off into the distance.  I can do this.

[Deej 76761]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

which included about 90 minutes of men just staring off into the distance

UT fans at a Charlie Strong game.

[Blotto 23498]

40 minutes ago, Deej said:

UT fans at a Charlie Strong game.

I would have jumped in front of a cannonball within the first 30 mins if it was an option. 

[UpperWestside 6163]

LOVED this movie. Jesse Plemons absolutely had to love his role considering where he’s from. Lily Gladstone was so, so good as Mollie. Seeing Brendan Fraser and John Lithgow in this was pretty awesome. Leo’s character I will leave up for debate what people think of it. I personally liked his performance, but that was one complicated guy.

I don’t want to hear a single complaint about the length of this movie. It was completely worth every single minute. If you don’t have the ability to sit for three plus hours don’t complain about it and just skip going to see it. It’ll be your loss not to watch this in a theater.

[UpperWestside 6163]

8 hours ago, mchookem said:

i mean i realize there's been some fuckery with reviews... but it's at 95% on RT. the negative reviews seem to either feel it's just too long (prolly true but it's an epic story so...) or it focuses too much on the antagonists rather than the victims (which is kind of a Scorsese trademark).

anyways... going this evening, can't wait!

We live in a culture that complains about EVERYTHING. If a movie is longer than 90 minutes there are complaints it’s too long. I do not read critic reviews before or after going to a movie.  I think the audience score on this movie should be really high and that to me is a far better gauge than the opinion of a small group of people with inflated and massively outsized egos. The only writers less fun to hear from are food critics. Any critic that does not enjoy this should probably just be a critic writing about sitcoms on Hulu or Freevee and call it a day. 

[UpperWestside 6163]

On 10/18/2023 at 12:22 PM, BigOrange1 said:

my wife is super pregnant and is scheduled to be induced on tuesday.  think i'm gonna try and see this on sunday morning but am slightly worried i'll get a call/text that we have to go to the hospital at some point during the movie.

Sorry in advance for missing the birth of your child. 

[mchookem 16329]

i read this book three years ago. i know this story. i still burst into tears when we got to the parking lot. holy shit did that have an emotional impact. it was outstanding, and i feel awful lol 😝 was an interesting choice to feature the Tulsa massacre as a background event. 

DiCaprio and Gladstone were excellent...but DeNiro might actually get his third Oscar. how he managed malevolence and kindness and murderousness and friendliness and duplicity and genuine concern just so... fucking perfectly, it was incredible. there will be nominations all around, anyway. 

i found the length a non-issue. this is a helluva story, i didn't feel anything was really superfluous. the details made the story that much more dreadful, it just kept building. ugh.

really, really well done. not Scorsese's best, but an important story that needed to be told, and he did it with care and to my recollection remained very faithful to the story. 

[atomheartbevo 89656]

8 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

Sorry in advance for missing the birth of your child. 

[GreenspointTexas 9600]

Good not great. No problem with the length. Gladstone, DeNiro and Leo were great.

 

Leos scowl became more distracting as the movie went on. Strange pacing at spots. Glazed over things I thought should have been given more attention. Very enjoyable, but the movie could have been a little better

 

The tone for the film was different than what i expected. Somewhere between Wolf of Wall Street and The Departed. OST was slightly distracting. 

[Hank Kingsley 20922]

I just want to say Martin Scorcese is a national treasure and I hope he lives forever. 

 

[Guest]

Maybe I expected too much.  I cannot remember ever being so relieved a movie was over.

The story itself is important.  There were no compelling characters.  Ze-fucking ro.  Zero suspense. Zero plot twists.  Zero dynamic tension. Earnest was just an easily pressured rube.  Bill Hale didn't emote any threat or influence.  He wasn't Bill Cutting.  He wasn't Darth Vader.  He wasn't even Mo Green.  He was boring AF.  Brendan Fraser was absolutely the highlight of the film, and that was just because he morphed into a HUGE BITCH.

That was a 3 and a half hour burning pile of shit.  Told the wife as were driving home, if I'm ever flipping channels, there's not a gotdam chance I'm watching that shit again.

i see the 92% on Rotten Tomatoes and realize it's probably just me.  Fuck, I could not stand it.

Edited October 22, 2023 by slorch

[High Plains Drifter 11044]

 

No way I can physically sit in a theater for 3.5 hours without having to get up and walk around two or three times. I'll have to wait until its streams on tv.

Any of you old timers remember when movies had intermissions?

[atomheartbevo 89656]

16 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

Any of you old timers remember when movies had intermissions?

Gettysburg was the last new release I remember, back in the early 90s, but it seemed like it was fairly short - probably long enough for them to swap reels and that was it.

Some of the longer movies today, if they stuck a 10-minute intermission in, the theaters might increase their concession stand sales.

[Kennythetiger 9380]

2 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

No way I can physically sit in a theater for 3.5 hours without having to get up and walk around two or three times. I'll have to wait until its streams on tv.

Any of you old timers remember when movies had intermissions?

As a kid I remember Dances With Wolves having a short break. 
We saw the show tonight, and I liked it way better than Slorch did. 

[GhostOfTomJoad 9324]

Our show is in 2 hours. Can't wait. I'm an early riser but am holding off on coffee to limit my bathroom breaks during this (hoping to be able to only take one).

Re: intermissions, I believe the studios many years ago decided that an intermission was the kiss of death and that audiences stayed away. Some even stopped listing a run time of anything approaching 3 hours, opting to say it was 178 minutes or some shit in the hopes that the audience was too stupid to do the math (a safe bet).

It's funny, because my wife is almost as excited to see this film as I am, primarily due to the subject matter and some distant family connections to the Osage. She doesn't like Leo at all, and respects Scorsese's work more than admires it (the heavy violence of some of his biggest films turns her off). She's mumbling about the run time, but had no issues sitting through the 2'48 (plus almost 20 minutes of previews) Taylor Swift concert film last week w/ her niece.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4739]

Watched last night. Just tremendous. Gladstone stole the show. I thought this was the best DeNiro performance in 25 years. Leo was Leo, although his southern/western/plains accent gets a little cartoonish for me.

I think there is some fat that could have been cut in the middle, but at this point I’m not complaining about more Scorsese.

[Horn80 6119]

11 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

No way I can physically sit in a theater for 3.5 hours without having to get up and walk around two or three times. I'll have to wait until its streams on tv.

Any of you old timers remember when movies had intermissions?

Lawerence of Arabia 

[CooterBrown 18007]

Gettysburg was the last new release I remember, back in the early 90s, but it seemed like it was fairly short - probably long enough for them to swap reels and that was it.
Some of the longer movies today, if they stuck a 10-minute intermission in, the theaters might increase their concession stand sales.

At least until a decade ago, the movie theater in the Cayman Islands would have a 15 minute intermission just for that reason. I didn’t know that was going to happen. The scene faded to black and the lights came on. The entire theater got up and went to the lobby. It took us a minute to realize what was going on.

[Kennythetiger 9380]

2 hours ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

Watched last night. Just tremendous. Gladstone stole the show. I thought this was the best DeNiro performance in 25 years. Leo was Leo, although his southern/western/plains accent gets a little cartoonish for me.

I think there is some fat that could have been cut in the middle, but at this point I’m not complaining about more Scorsese.

Yes, I hated DeNiro by the end. 
Our theater hit the house lights immediately when the credits started. I was disappointed in that, as I would have liked to sit in the dark for 5 or 10 minutes and consider what I had just watched. 

[Pato del Muerto 52490]

14 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Gettysburg was the last new release I remember, back in the early 90s, but it seemed like it was fairly short - probably long enough for them to swap reels and that was it.

Some of the longer movies today, if they stuck a 10-minute intermission in, the theaters might increase their concession stand sales.

When Kenneth branaugh made his version of Hamlet, it had an intermission. But I think that one was 4 hours. Because do you edit Shakespeare?

[RPM 26318]

On 10/18/2023 at 10:37 AM, Steamboat1874 said:

Good to see Jesse Plemons continue to advance his career since FNL.

He is a great guy and has done very well for himself.

 

On 10/18/2023 at 10:45 AM, usmc0331horn said:

Great actor who gets to hit Kirsten Dunst every night. Dude has it made.

 

On 10/18/2023 at 1:30 PM, mchookem said:

of all the FNL alumni i never would have picked Landry as having the most prolific/successful post-FNL career 😄

Never saw his career coming watching FNL. The dude has a 4 leaf clover. Everything he's in slams and goes hard. (including Kirsten)

[Kennythetiger 9380]

8 minutes ago, RPM said:

 

 

Never saw his career coming watching FNL. The dude has a 4 leaf clover. Everything he's in slams and goes hard. (including Kirsten)

“I’m here about the murders.”

”What about them?”

”Well- who’s doing them.”  

[GhostOfTomJoad 9324]

Loved it.

[Trey3216 15346]

On 10/18/2023 at 10:37 AM, Steamboat1874 said:

Good to see Jesse Plemons continue to advance his career since FNL.

He is a great guy and has done very well for himself.

He’s a damn fine actor and has really done well for himself.  I’m friends with a bunch of his family and they’re all good folks.  

[Guest]

On 10/18/2023 at 10:37 AM, Steamboat1874 said:

Good to see Jesse Plemons continue to advance his career since FNL.

He is a great guy and has done very well for himself.

He'll always be the boot Lieutenant in Hostiles with Christian Bale to me.

I like him too.

[UpperWestside 6163]

2 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

He’s a damn fine actor and has really done well for himself.  I’m friends with a bunch of his family and they’re all good folks.  

He is one of the best young actors going right now, if not the best in my opinion. He can do pretty much any role no matter how different it might be from something else he has done.

[TommyGufano 6021]

12 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

He is one of the best young actors going right now, if not the best in my opinion. He can do pretty much any role no matter how different it might be from something else he has done.

I didn't buy him as Lance Harbor's younger brother. Kind of took me out of that film if I'm being honest

[Beau Vine 54215]

10 hours ago, Horn80 said:

Lawerence of Arabia 

He was an English guy...

He came to fight the Turrrr-kish!

[Beau Vine 54215]

8 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

At least until a decade ago, the movie theater in the Cayman Islands would have a 15 minute intermission just for that reason. I didn’t know that was going to happen. The scene faded to black and the lights came on. The entire theater got up and went to the lobby. It took us a minute to realize what was going on.

That's the way it still is at The Corral walk-in movie theatre in Wimberley, which is still one of the greatest places in this state.

And they call lucky numbers for free snacks during the break.

[atomheartbevo 89656]

1 hour ago, TommyGufano said:

I didn't buy him as Lance Harbor's younger brother. Kind of took me out of that film if I'm being honest

Or sleeping with Elizabeth Olsen in that True Crime Texas TV series  about the bored housewife having an affair and then murdering her lover’s wife.

Edited October 23, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[Horn80 6119]

56 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

He was an English guy...

He came to fight the Turrrr-kish!

And ride camals!

[GhostOfTomJoad 9324]

A few more thoughts since seeing it and I've been able to discuss and process the film a bit more with my wife:

• The highest compliment I could give to Scorsese is how confident and in control he is. Obviously he's a master filmmaker, but the restraint he showed was stunning. How do you make a $200mm dollar film look like a documentary? This is how. For a man behind some of the most iconic cinematography and images in the last half century, he let the camera hide throughout most of the scenes. Static shots. Medium and close up shots of the actors. Limited tracking. He made sure the audience was forced to witness everything in this world. It made the few "big" shots in the film that more powerful when they appeared.
• The violence was so matter of fact and casual it underscored how little the loss of life to the Osage members mattered. It was just something that needed to be done, as mundane as most of the "jobs" the whites pretended to do while scheming ways to steal from the wealthy tribe members. 
• I'm not going to waste anyone's time with the performances of the actors, but that was a master class through and through. And Jason Isbell...save some talent for the rest of humanity, dude.
• Recapping the post trial events via showing a live radio broadcast dramatizing the event. Fantastic. A million times better than the standard onscreen text tying things up, but also a sly commentary about how crimes, murder and injustice has been both entertainment and lucrative since the ability to recreate and broadcast it has existed. 

 

I'm sure we'll watch it again soon at home.  Bravo, Marty. I don't want to be greedy because if that's the last film you ever make then job well done. I think he's only got two more big projects he's been trying to make for many years and those are both biopics: Sinatra and Teddy Roosevelt (with Leo as TR). Stay healthy. 

[mchookem 16329]

5 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

 

• The violence was so matter of fact and casual it underscored how little the loss of life to the Osage members mattered. It was just something that needed to be done, as mundane as most of the "jobs" the whites pretended to do while scheming ways to steal from the wealthy tribe members. 

 

• Recapping the post trial events via showing a live radio broadcast dramatizing the event. Fantastic. A million times better than the standard onscreen text tying things up, but also a sly commentary about how crimes, murder and injustice has been both entertainment and lucrative since the ability to recreate and broadcast it has existed.  

absolutely agree with both these points, and the first i think is why i had such an emotional reaction and why i was so impressed with Deniro...he conveyed such a murderous matter-of-factness, it was absolutely horrifying!

and you nailed the ending...it was jarring and absolutely on point.

[BrazilHorn 6591]

Saw it today. Really good but easily could have been 45 mins shorter. 
 

I echo those above that call out BF over-acting. Holy cow. High school level play for him in his scenes. Also Leo turning into “Sling Blade” towards end with his jutting jaw/grunting dialogue was bit much n

[UpperWestside 6163]

On 10/21/2023 at 8:05 PM, slorch said:

Maybe I expected too much.  I cannot remember ever being so relieved a movie was over.

The story itself is important.  There were no compelling characters.  Ze-fucking ro.  Zero suspense. Zero plot twists.  Zero dynamic tension. Earnest was just an easily pressured rube.  Bill Hale didn't emote any threat or influence.  He wasn't Bill Cutting.  He wasn't Darth Vader.  He wasn't even Mo Green.  He was boring AF.  Brendan Fraser was absolutely the highlight of the film, and that was just because he morphed into a HUGE BITCH.

That was a 3 and a half hour burning pile of shit.  Told the wife as were driving home, if I'm ever flipping channels, there's not a gotdam chance I'm watching that shit again.

i see the 92% on Rotten Tomatoes and realize it's probably just me.  Fuck, I could not stand it.

What happened with this movie is that the Osage sat down with Scorsese and his crew and told them this was THEIR STORY and they wanted it portrayed true-to-life. They did this before the pandemic I believe. Scorsese did that and remained true to the story. You knew the score going in and the Osage wanted everyone to see what happened to them, but also that they had persevered through these atrocities.

We get so many movies where dramatics are added because people want there to be these shock endings and what not. We were told about an awful time in American history, but what I will remember of this is that the people who perpetrated these heinous acts at least were brought to justice. They should’ve hanged for what they did, but just getting white men put away during this time in history was big. Mollie’s character in particular dealt with trauma that could’ve broke most anyone, but what a woman to go through that horror. So sad that her life was still cut so painfully short.

It’s fine that you didn’t enjoy it. At least you gave actual reasons so thank you.

[GhostOfTomJoad 9324]

7 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

What happened with this movie is that the Osage sat down with Scorsese and his crew and told them this was THEIR STORY and they wanted it portrayed true-to-life. They did this before the pandemic I believe. Scorsese did that and remained true to the story. You knew the score going in and the Osage wanted everyone to see what happened to them, but also that they had persevered through these atrocities.

This is a key part of the development and production. Scorsese earned the trust of the Osage and they in turn helped them tell the story in a way that otherwise might not have been seen. Also, Leo was originally cast to play agent Tom White (Jesse Plemon's character) which would have made it more of the standard "white man coming to the rescue of the natives" narrative. He discussed it with Marty and they realized that character they understood the least was Ernest, so that's what they tried to understand: why he acted the way he did.

[chainsaw 9866]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:37 AM, Kennythetiger said:

I would have liked to sit in the dark for 5 or 10 minutes and consider what I had just watched. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by chainsaw

[C-Man 27219]

The actress who played Elora on Reservation Dogs is not a fan: https://variety.com/2023/film/news/devery-jacobs-slams-killers-of-the-flower-moon-scorsese-osage-characters-victims-1235765582/

 

[YChang 3443]

I can understand her frustration and criticisms. And it will definitely be interesting as time passes to read other perspectives about this movie, especially from Osage/Native American scholars. From what I understand, Scorsese worked closely with the Osage community on this film, and one of the criticism from some of them was not focusing the story on Mollie. I wonder if part of that is just the amount of trust already established between Scorsese and DiCaprio. 

Devery Jacobs has a platform and experience now. It would be cool to see her partner or help tell this story as well.