Elbow pain part deux

[Baboontyme 2825]

I think I started this thread on the old board. 

Anyone have any particular experience with elbow joints and pain? This is all related to lifting weights. I am in my early 40s but my joints are breaking down and it sucks. I enjoy lifting weights and it's one of the primary ways I try to stay in shape.  I have had golfer's elbow in the past. It was "cured" basically by adding some forearm exercises into the routine, along with ice and anti-inflammatory meds. I think this is different. 

I have been working out at a small shitty gym due to convenience for a few years. It doesn't really give me everything I want. A new gym is opening near me, and I went to check out one of their other facilities over Christmas break to see if I wanted to join. The good news is that it was awesome and I'm hyped to join the new gym. The bad news is I was so excited to have some different options in front of me, even though I'm pretty careful I think I overdid it on a chest day. I was fine for a few days but within 3-4 days my right elbow started hurting to the point that I could barely raise it above my head without wincing in pain. I've given it almost a month with no activity and it's still pretty damn painful at times, mostly when I do any kind of extensions - just arm movements, no weights. It even hurts sleeping at times (side sleeper, usually cock the elbow).

To pinpoint the pain, if I was doing a curl with my right arm, the pain would be at the top of the curl, just to the right of the point of the elbow joint on the bottom side of the arm, and also slightly on the left/inside of the joint on the top area of the arm during the curl. I am worried I might have a TJ type of injury here but I'm basically too busy and lazy to go to the Dr unless I think there's no other way out. Anyone have any similar type of injuries? Does this sound like tendinitis that might make its way out on its own accord/with PT? Or perhaps more serious.?

[mycox 582]

Sounds like tennis elbow.

I'm going through this right now. I thought laying off exercise for a couple of months would help. The sever pain is gone, but it's still noticeable. Probably because I'm typing on a keyboard 8 hours a day. I finally gave in and visited a orthopedic surgeon Monday. He gave me a wrist brace to wear when typing and sleeping and told me to google tennis elbow exercises. He also suggested anti-inflammatory meds in the short term.

He said to come back if the pain is still there after a month.

 

[YChang 3463]

Similar... eventually I had to get a steroid shot in my elbow. Now pain free since getting the shot 6 months ago.

[HouTex 1894]

You should make the time to see an orthopedic surgeon.  I battled tennis elbow for almost two years before it finally went away.  I had three cortisone shots over several months, months of physical therapy, the Graston therapy (hurt like hell but it helped), ice (4-5 times a day but it didn't do shit), heat (helped a bit), etc.  I was scheduled for surgery but I got a second opinion and decided to just wait it out.  Eventually, laying off the offending activity will allow the tendon to heal.  Just be patient.  You may be able to reduce your activities and it can go away rather quickly.  Sometimes, like the poster above, a cortisone shot will help or fix it.  Or, as in my case, I thought I could just continue my activities (golf and tennis) but on a reduced scale and be fine, but that only made it worse.  I had to stop playing tennis entirely and it took almost two years before I was pain free.  The problem is that you don't know whether you can work through it or not until you try.  If it doesn't go away you can make it way worse like I did.  Laying off is the safest bet.  And I previously always healed quickly from muscle pulls and sprains so I thought tennis elbow would just take a few weeks to heal. 

The best test to see if it's tennis elbow is to sit down next to a table and extend your arm straight out under the table with the palm facing the floor and your fingers about halfway under the edge of the table just touching the bottom of the table.  Lift up with your fingers trying to lift the table with just the strength of your fingers.  Your elbow area and part of your forearm near the elbow will hurt like hell if it's tennis elbow.  A firm handshake also will hurt like hell.

[EE2B 1565]

I figured this was a Knox thread.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13528]

When I’ve suffered thru tennis elbow, I finally learned a combination of a cortisone shot to reduce the inflammation and 4-6 months of low activity allowed it to heal.  I know it sucks. 

[4th and 5 4919]

Switch hands.

 

youre welcome. 

[Baboontyme 2825]

Prognosis sounds awesome so far. Thanks for the replies. 

[mycox 582]

Yeah, my orthopedic surgeon said a cortisone shot was the next option if the exercises and anti-inflammatories don't work. 

[Sbbruin 21898]

2 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

Switch hands.

 

youre welcome. 

it took 7 posts?  

[Fattersons FUPA 16]

2 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

Switch hands.

 

youre welcome. 

Not a Dr but sounds like motel elbow.

[crash_davis 23115]

I had the same problem. Mine started when I started going really heavy on deadlifts. My grip wasn't strong enough. I resolved by regularly stretching the muscles around the elbow and wearing a brace. It took about 6 months to resolve. But I did have to stop going heavy on dead lifts for awhile. 

Watch the video. I now regularly perform the below stretches. No more elbow pain.

 

[Js1 85602]

7 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

Switch hands.

 

youre welcome. 

“Forearm exercises” lol

[Irish Wrist Watch 1398]

On 1/22/2020 at 7:15 AM, HouTex said:

You should make the time to see an orthopedic surgeon.  I battled tennis elbow for almost two years before it finally went away.  I had three cortisone shots over several months, months of physical therapy, the Graston therapy (hurt like hell but it helped), ice (4-5 times a day but it didn't do shit), heat (helped a bit), etc.  I was scheduled for surgery but I got a second opinion and decided to just wait it out.  Eventually, laying off the offending activity will allow the tendon to heal.  Just be patient.  You may be able to reduce your activities and it can go away rather quickly.  Sometimes, like the poster above, a cortisone shot will help or fix it.  Or, as in my case, I thought I could just continue my activities (golf and tennis) but on a reduced scale and be fine, but that only made it worse.  I had to stop playing tennis entirely and it took almost two years before I was pain free.  The problem is that you don't know whether you can work through it or not until you try.  If it doesn't go away you can make it way worse like I did.  Laying off is the safest bet.  And I previously always healed quickly from muscle pulls and sprains so I thought tennis elbow would just take a few weeks to heal. 

The best test to see if it's tennis elbow is to sit down next to a table and extend your arm straight out under the table with the palm facing the floor and your fingers about halfway under the edge of the table just touching the bottom of the table.  Lift up with your fingers trying to lift the table with just the strength of your fingers.  Your elbow area and part of your forearm near the elbow will hurt like hell if it's tennis elbow.  A firm handshake also will hurt like hell.

I play die-hard tennis for 3hrs twice a week. Total fucking blast. Lost weight, stamina off the scales (in my sixties). Six mo ago my tennis elbow was pretty bad. I switched from a shitty racket to an old Wilson PWS maybe three mo back. The pain has steadily decreased. Just a case of less vibration. 

As far as the weightlifting goes - give it up. Even heavy reps with light weight could leave you with long-term problems that can only be relieved for a few hours at a time by painful stretching. It ain't worth it. It doesn't help agility and also pulls on the spine, necessitating short term relief from a chiro, which will no longer be necessary if you just give it up. Diet, push ups, upside-down-pilates-sit ups will do most of it. A sport like tennis will keep you in shape for life.

[HouTex 1894]

You are fortunate that you could keep playing. Many of my friends switched to arm-friendly racquets and it makes a big difference. Volkl are famous for low vibration. I play with an old design Prince. The Prince EXO3. Its very easy on the arm. And I never use poly strings. They will rip your elbow to shreds. The worst is the Babolat racquet that Nadal uses with the poly strings. Recreational players want to bang balls on the base line all day long with huge top spin like Nadal but they are destroying their arms.

[smuggs 9353]

I have golfer's in my right elbow. I quit doing curls almost altogether and that helped. I also occasionally wear a Rehband sleeve as sometimes I'll do something that causes a flare up. It works well for me (43 years old).

 

 

[HouTex 1894]

I have golfer's in my right elbow. I quit doing curls almost altogether and that helped. I also occasionally wear a Rehband sleeve as sometimes I'll do something that causes a flare up. It works well for me (43 years old).
 

 

I use the Bandit forearm brace. It’s sort of like insurance now that I’m pain free.

[dcbc 14525]

Had to give up tennis since serving was wreaking havoc on my shoulder and wrist. 

[Irish Wrist Watch 1398]

1 hour ago, HouTex said:

You are fortunate that you could keep playing. Many of my friends switched to arm-friendly racquets and it makes a big difference. Volkl are famous for low vibration. I play with an old design Prince. The Prince EXO3. Its very easy on the arm. And I never use poly strings. They will rip your elbow to shreds. The worst is the Babolat racquet that Nadal uses with the poly strings. Recreational players want to bang balls on the base line all day long with huge top spin like Nadal but they are destroying their arms.

I have been lucky. I only regret that I didn't rediscover tennis until a year or so ago. At 5'11", 170 (180, 18 mo ago), I seem to be avoiding some of the nagging stuff that is causing problems for others in my group - so far, knock on wood.

You made a couple of interesting observations. Babolat is real popular, or so I hear. I don't like the wide profile. Gets in the way of my serves. I ran into a West Texas MD recently who is 73 and uses a Babolat lined with lead tape. It played pretty well. He was a big topspin guy - and damn good. I don't use a lot of topspin, but have been working on it. Something for me to think about.

My knowledge of equipment is dated. What do you recommend between synthetic gut and multi-filament? 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Irish Wrist Watch

[Irish Wrist Watch 1398]

10 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Had to give up tennis since serving was wreaking havoc on my shoulder and wrist. 

And yeah, my shoulder gives me fits, but you just gotta live with it. Stretch out those scalines above your collar bone - liquid advil an hour before game time. And for six hours a week, I'm a thirty year-old again, doing just about everything I did back in the seventies, just about as well, sometimes better. Less aggressive, smarter.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Irish Wrist Watch

[HouTex 1894]

I have been lucky. I only regret that I didn't rediscover tennis until a year or so ago. At 5'11", 170 (180, 18 mo ago), I seem to be avoiding some of the nagging stuff that is causing problems for others in my group - so far, knock on wood.
You made a couple of interesting observations. Babolat is real popular, or so I hear. I don't like the wide profile. Gets in the way of my serves. I ran into a West Texas MD recently who is 73 and uses a Babolat lined with lead tape. It played pretty well. He was a big topspin guy - and damn good. I don't use a lot of topspin, but have been working on it. Something for me to think about.
My knowledge of equipment is dated. What do you recommend between synthetic gut and multi-filament? 
 

Either should be fine. I have been using multi for many years (Wilson NXT).

[Irish Wrist Watch 1398]

1 hour ago, HouTex said:

The Prince EXO3. Its very easy on the arm. 

I was talking to a local pro about why he likes his Head low profile racket (which is pretty nice). He said it was the smaller hitting area. Hmmm. That's when I decided to try the Wilson PWS that had been sitting in my trunk for two plus years. I already had a nice "Agassi" Head Mid Plus that I bought forty years or so ago, but the I now like the Wilson better. It has much better strings - in fact, they look like fairly new gut. Why don't I know for sure? because I picked it up in a thrift store on a lark  for $5.

[Irish Wrist Watch 1398]

Update on strings v tennis elbow. Turns out the PWS was strung with synthetic gut. Figured this out when a string broke Sunday (possibly because I played a match in the snow last Wed night). Got it restrung with synthetic gut at 60lb. Picked it up yesterday. Felt cheated because it turned out the string used was thinner. Googled it. That's  good thing apparently. A finer string gives you more control. Vibration decreased even more. Last night had one of my best nights ever! Elbow feels great today. Here's to tennis science.

[Buzzrock 14948]

Good to hear. I had it in both elbows at different times. Cortisone shot cleared up one but didn’t help at all for the other. After six weeks of PT didn’t help I tried acupuncture. A few sessions and pain was totally gone never to return.

[WhatTheBuck 28806]

On January 22, 2020 at 8:47 AM, 4th and 5 said:

Switch hands.

 

youre welcome. 

It's like sex with a clumsy stranger. 

[Jerry Callo 8734]

I used a Band It tennis elbow band and it worked great. Wore it anytime I used my right arm: swimming, yard work, etc. It keeps the tendon from pulling on the elbow allowing the inflammation and pain to subside.

[troph 24912]

I play die-hard tennis for 3hrs twice a week. Total fucking blast. Lost weight, stamina off the scales (in my sixties). Six mo ago my tennis elbow was pretty bad. I switched from a shitty racket to an old Wilson PWS maybe three mo back. The pain has steadily decreased. Just a case of less vibration. 

As far as the weightlifting goes - give it up. Even heavy reps with light weight could leave you with long-term problems that can only be relieved for a few hours at a time by painful stretching. It ain't worth it. It doesn't help agility and also pulls on the spine, necessitating short term relief from a chiro, which will no longer be necessary if you just give it up. Diet, push ups, upside-down-pilates-sit ups will do most of it. A sport like tennis will keep you in shape for life.

I’m in month seven of trying to recover from “golfers elbow” from tennis. Tennis elbow on the inside of the elbow from too much arm and not enough body in my forearm mechanics. I love the sport. Was playing two competitive matches per week, a lesson, group drills and the ball machine 1-2x a week for six days a week. Dumb. I’ve seen the surgeon and had one round of PRP injections, started a comeback and reinjured it. I’m now at zero activity again. Super bummed. But it’s getting better. I’m hoping to be back at it 3 times a week by the fall and maybe some cross training. At the height of it I was in the best shape of my life. I absolutely want that back. There’s no beer or glass of wine or fine meal that feels as good as coming off the court after a tennis work out. Such an amazing sport.

[troph 24912]

You are fortunate that you could keep playing. Many of my friends switched to arm-friendly racquets and it makes a big difference. Volkl are famous for low vibration. I play with an old design Prince. The Prince EXO3. Its very easy on the arm. And I never use poly strings. They will rip your elbow to shreds. The worst is the Babolat racquet that Nadal uses with the poly strings. Recreational players want to bang balls on the base line all day long with huge top spin like Nadal but they are destroying their arms.

 

This is what happened to me exactly. I had a ton of spin on my forehand and even more on my backhand. Plenty of power but I’m not using my body correctly and gripping too hard. I need to have more fluidity and make it a full body swing. My backhand is sound now with winner top spin, forehand is still under a rebuild. My game is power to the deep corners then get to the net. I don’t want to hang back the whole match. Now my game is typing about it on surly. Grrr.

 

I’m using an elbow compression sleeve now for a lot of activity, stretches and if it doesn’t get any better in the next two or three weeks I’m headed back probs for a scan, second round of PRP injections then surgery I guess.

[troph 24912]

Good to hear. I had it in both elbows at different times. Cortisone shot cleared up one but didn’t help at all for the other. After six weeks of PT didn’t help I tried acupuncture. A few sessions and pain was totally gone never to return.

Tennis friend swears by acupuncture I might try that next actually.

[4th and 5 4919]

Settle down, Martina

Edited February 16, 2020 by 4th and 5

[closetojumping 62883]

Little League has started back up and I've been throwing to the kids at practice a bunch. Anyway, I've never once had elbow pain in an entire life of playing baseball. Until now. My forearm is aching, my inside elbow is aching and the overall joint just hurts. Any clues or help on something like that? I'm going to have other coaches throw BP for a few weeks and take it easy throwing overall, I guess, but figured someone here might have something to add.

[Chewbacca 7787]

If there's anything worse than tennis elbow, it might be plantar fascitis.  This time last year, I had TE.  Took probably 5 months to go away.  Now I have PF.  Slowly going away, but it sucks balls.

[HouTex 1894]

I used this for my PF and in a couple of weeks it was gone.

[Jiggy-Z 3437]

Late to the party but I am occasionally bothered by elbow issues from rock climbing, although they do not sound as serious as yours.

There is the meathead guy on youtube with the channel name Smashwerks. He specializes in mobility and rehab/prehab. Go to his channel and search for elbow pain and pick out a drill or two that you can do.  You will probably need to get some floss bands and some exercise bands.

These really helped me and usually within a week I am good to go.  They (Trevor) guy is a chiropractor and licensed physically therapist, but he is also a meathead.  Kind of an acquired taste.

Also pay attention to the upstream and downstream muscles and joints, often where the actual problem is.  He has a ton of stuff that has really helped me regain some much needed mobility.

[Irish Wrist Watch 1398]

On 2/15/2020 at 9:02 PM, troph said:

 

This is what happened to me exactly. I had a ton of spin on my forehand and even more on my backhand. Plenty of power but I’m not using my body correctly and gripping too hard. I need to have more fluidity and make it a full body swing. My backhand is sound now with winner top spin, forehand is still under a rebuild. My game is power to the deep corners then get to the net. I don’t want to hang back the whole match. Now my game is typing about it on surly. Grrr.

 

I’m using an elbow compression sleeve now for a lot of activity, stretches and if it doesn’t get any better in the next two or three weeks I’m headed back probs for a scan, second round of PRP injections then surgery I guess.

Couple of notes: Found an article which said that the tightness with which most pros grip a racket, on a scale of ten, is a three. In fact if you look closely, you'll notice that the base of their hand practically covers the end of the racket. The caveat is that if you do this, you must hit the sweet spot or the racket will twist. That's how coordinated these guys are. Truly amazing when you consider the speed of the ball and the fact that they have to position themselves before each swing. Major league hitters got nothing on them. (I grip it pretty tightly, myself)

 

Secondly, it's been a several months since I switched to the Wilson PWS. Initially, it had very little vibration, although when your elbow is killing you, it's kind of hard to tell because every little vibration hurts. I got it restrung six weeks or so back with Synth gut at 60lbs (maximum per the side of the racket), and I swear to God, there is simply no vibration. Most importantly, the elbow pain has disappeared! During that time, I've been playing twice a week, three hours a pop. That means that resting your elbow is not the only cure. You gotta stop the vibration, that's all. Final note, a couple of weeks before the restring, I added several layers of lead tape at 10 and 2 o'clock, which improved control and I think increased stability. Playing the best tennis of my life. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Irish Wrist Watch

[HouTex 1894]

2 hours ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

Couple of notes: Found an article which said that the tightness with which most pros grip a racket, on a scale of ten, is a three. In fact if you look closely, you'll notice that the base of their hand practically covers the end of the racket. The caveat is that if you do this, you must hit the sweet spot or the racket will twist. That's how coordinated these guys are. Truly amazing when you consider the speed of the ball and the fact that they have to position themselves before each swing. Major league hitters got nothing on them. (I grip it pretty tightly, myself)

 

Secondly, it's been a several months since I switched to the Wilson PWS. Initially, it had very little vibration, although when your elbow is killing you, it's kind of hard to tell because every little vibration hurts. I got it restrung six weeks or so back with Synth gut at 60lbs (maximum per the side of the racket), and I swear to God, there is simply no vibration. Most importantly, the elbow pain has disappeared! During that time, I've been playing twice a week, three hours a pop. That means that resting your elbow is not the only cure. You gotta stop the vibration, that's all. Final note, a couple of weeks before the restring, I added several layers of lead tape at 10 and 2 o'clock, which improved control and I think increased stability. Playing the best tennis of my life. 

You are one of the lucky ones that played through it.  Mine, and many others I know, was so severe there was no way I could play through it.  I couldn't even shake a hand or turn a door knob.  I was out of tennis for around 20 months and during that time as I thought it was getting better I would hit a few and pretty much had to immediately stop.  That said, you have a good point.  A light grip, the right racquet and strings do make a difference.  When I was coming back to tennis my old racquet had way too much vibration.  When I was pain free, I settled on the Prince EXO3 and the Volkl V1 Classic.  They are old designs, but they still play well.  The new Volkl's are supposed to be arm-friendly as well.  Just stay away from the Babolat's with poly strings.  They are evil.  Everyone wants to play like Nadal . . .

[troph 24912]

On 2/17/2020 at 12:07 PM, Chewbacca said:

If there's anything worse than tennis elbow, it might be plantar fascitis.  This time last year, I had TE.  Took probably 5 months to go away.  Now I have PF.  Slowly going away, but it sucks balls.

Okay so I came here to update my elbow - it’s doing better - compression sleeve while playing - I’m up to two lessons per week and retooling my forehand.  Lighter grip, more knee bend, winding up and coming up and through my forehand for a deeper, heavier ball and a much easier neutral swing.  Working on differentiating between neutral and offensive shots too, instead of all shots being offensive. All good. Fix my mechanics and I’m back playing.  First hurt it in July of last year so I’m in month 13 of recovery. Glad to be here tbqh. I had experiences like what’s described above, flat out couldn’t hit for more than a few minutes without stabbing pain coming back.  Now its just a little sore.  I rest 2 full days or 4 depending on the day of the week.  I want to add weight and circuit training maybe some spin but tennis 6 days a week is over.  Hope is to get back to 3 maybe 4.  Very happy with 2 per week again though.  The anticipation when I walk off the court for my next lesson is palpable. 

except now my gd heel aches in the morning, at night and after any amount of walking or playing. Hello PF.  I’m stretching and will roll the iced water bottles next.  Used to get a bi-weekly sports massage but that’s out for now. Foot down right hurts.  Ugh. 

happy about the forehand rebuild though. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by troph

[Irish Wrist Watch 1398]

Be careful stretching your achilles tendon. Didn't work for me. I just do a slow warm up (running-wise) when I first take the court.

I quit wearing my elbow sleeve, I kind of think it might have been making matters worse, or perhaps causing my body to compensate, thereby risking injury to something else. No elbow pain now, mainly because I switched to that Wilson PWS - virtually no vibration. My serves are pretty formidable, however, and my shoulder is in a state of perpetual tenderness. Will probably let it rest during the upcoming months. Starting a 2-plus hour balls to the wall match at 7pm is too damn straining. It's still in the low 90s at game time. With high humidity - jeez.

I have a question though. One of the other players, who has had two shoulder operations, the latest being  a couple of months ago, stated that he "stretches" the muscles before a match by lifting ten pound hand weights. Finding info on the web about this is tricky. I personally think that lifting light weight has nothing to do with stretching, but just the opposite. He's hurting himself. I think stretching should be done in a doorway, or better yet by holding a scaline with your thumb, then moving your arm, shoulder and neck. It's painful, but I feel relief immdiately. Any thoughts on that?

Edited July 7, 2020 by Irish Wrist Watch

[troph 24912]

I’ve heard stretching is more important after work outs and slow warm ups are more important in advance. Weights seems like a warm up not a stretch per se. obviously stretching happens in most exercise. Reminds me I need to stretch more besides my feet.

I need the compression still, at least while I rework my mechanics. But I could see dropping it.

Achilles stretches work for me they are super tight but I also need to stretch the arch too. This morning wasn’t as bad as I expected.