Houston cost of living more than NYC?

[Mez2 4037]

16 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

I’m gonna knock over your chili on Friday 

Because you're drunk? 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

6 minutes ago, Blotto said:

What exactly are you arguing here? Is it your contention that if you live on the periphery of the NYC metro area, it's just as cheap as the periphery of the Houston metro area? I seriously doubt that. 

First, I haven't mentioned anywhere on the periphery of NYC except Orange County. The true periphery of the NYC metro area is actually the Stroudsburg, PA area. It's pretty damn cheap over there. 

And all I'm doing is agreeing with the article. The article was supported by research.  Y'all are arguing against it using lifestyle choices as arguments. If you want to disagree with the article, then back it up with actual numbers. 

That people chose to move to the most expensive part of NYC and eat out every night doesn't have anything to do with cost of living comparisons.  I do suppose NYC is unique in that nightlife areas tend to be some of the most expensive areas to live, and transient people tend to move here specifically for the nightlife so they spend like crazy. Still, just like it isn't a Manhattan-only vs all of Houston comparison, it also isn't a "nightlife area" cost of living comparison. Even there though, you can find 3 drinks for $10 in like 90% of the outer boros. 

[SimonBolivar 10962]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

People "want" to move to Houston? Since when?

Sure it isn't pretty, but if you are living in Beaumont, San Salvador, or Corpus then why not?

[Foosters 17961]

I think the article is overstating it, but I will say people always assume that my tax burden here in CA must be astronomical compared to those in low-tax Texas. That is, until we get to discussing property taxes.

[UTPhil2006 3838]

47 minutes ago, Mez2 said:

Because you're drunk? 

Why not both 

[closetojumping 63662]

48 minutes ago, Foosters said:

I think the article is overstating it, but I will say people always assume that my tax burden here in CA must be astronomical compared to those in low-tax Texas. That is, until we get to discussing property taxes.

It is an inevitability in threads like this that the California and New York residents are going to show up and tell us how stupid and ignorant we all are about the world with our silly, myopic Texas biases. 

I don't know anyone capable of owning a house in Texas that isn't fully aware of the disparity in property taxes between our state and what people pay in California. Not one. You pay lower property taxes for various reasons, but the proposition that passed in the 70's that will never be overturned, which locked taxes in at the household value at the time of purchase certainly enables cheap prop taxes into perpetuity. The follow-on proposition years later that also included inherited properties into the provision, even those used as rental income, makes it even better. It also helps with deficits building in the state and one of the worst school systems in the country. But hey, low property taxes!

Here is an LAT article highlighting how awesome it is for the state overall: https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-california-property-taxes-elites-201808-htmlstory.html

There is not a scenario you can create in which it is actually cheaper on a relative basis to live in California than it is in Texas. Even in Austin. I love CA and NY. Visit them all the time. Going to Los Angeles in a few weeks, in fact. I'd never live in either place unless I invented some widget that made me a gazillionaire. People trying to build wealth for generations paying higher total taxes, higher housing costs, and higher dollar amounts for most goods and services don't get nearly as far in either place as they do in Texas. You cannot work the math and state otherwise without being completely lost in the concept or completely disingenuous. 

[Foosters 17961]

Just now, closetojumping said:

It is an inevitability in threads like this that the California and New York residents are going to show up and tell us how stupid and ignorant we all are about the world with our silly, myopic Texas biases. 

I don't know anyone capable of owning a house in Texas that isn't fully aware of the disparity in property taxes between our state and what people pay in California. Not one. You pay lower property taxes for various reasons, but the proposition that passed in the 70's that will never be overturned, which locked taxes in at the household value at the time of purchase certainly enables cheap prop taxes into perpetuity. The follow-on proposition years later that also included inherited properties into the provision, even those used as rental income, makes it even better. It also helps with deficits building in the state and one of the worst school systems in the country. But hey, low property taxes!

Here is an LAT article highlighting how awesome it is for the state overall: https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-california-property-taxes-elites-201808-htmlstory.html

There is not a scenario you can create in which it is actually cheaper on a relative basis to live in California than it is in Texas. Even in Austin. I love CA and NY. Visit them all the time. Going to Los Angeles in a few weeks, in fact. I'd never live in either place unless I invented some widget that made me a gazillionaire. People trying to build wealth for generations paying higher total taxes, higher housing costs, and higher dollar amounts for most goods and services don't get nearly as far in either place as they do in Texas. You cannot work the math and state otherwise without being completely lost in the concept or completely disingenuous. 

Holy shit man. Calm down.

I simply stated that people are often surprised to learn that property taxes in CA are lower than TX.

 

 

[clapclapclap 9000]

6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Quote

Oh and not to mention child care costs are significantly cheaper for my friends in TX than anywhere on the East Coast

Do you have to get a loan for that? 🤬🤬

Hahahaha, I was just about to ask if the author was 1010wins trying to explain to his children.

I can't remember the details, but didn't he start a thread on TOS asking for advice on taking out a huge loan to pay for daycare, so that he could move his new family to Manhattan?

[Deej 77298]

Fewer aggy in NYC, but Houston has Viet Cajun.

[TwiceHorn 31705]

5 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Manhattan has 1.5 million people. NYC has 8.6 million. Metro has nearly 20 million people. Most people who live in NYC don't live in Manhattan. Manhattan is pretty much the equivalent of River Oaks and West U. Not a place where the generic NYer lives.

Seriously, though, Brooklyn is gentrifying, even the Bronx and Harlem and every place I look is expensive and tiny.  And old and kind of decrepit.

Where to working people live in NYC proper?  As far as I can tell, you have to get pretty far out on Long Island or north of the city to get toward affordable.

I mean, there's this fucking palace for $549k in Jamaica.  New York that is.

Edited January 23, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[tx 3 putt 78010]

23 minutes ago, Deej said:

Fewer aggy in NYC, but Houston has Viet Cajun.

Crawfish and Noodles !

[Deej 77298]

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Seriously, though, Brooklyn is gentrifying, even the Bronx and Harlem and every place I look is expensive and tiny.  And old and kind of decrepit.

Where to working people live in NYC proper?  As far as I can tell, you have to get pretty far out on Long Island or north of the city to get toward affordable.

I mean, there's this fucking palace for $549k in Jamaica.  New York that is.

Shit, you'd almost pay that much for a similar place off Rundberg.

[MaybeACoordinator 8350]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Seriously, though, Brooklyn is gentrifying, even the Bronx and Harlem and every place I look is expensive and tiny.  And old and kind of decrepit.

Where to working people live in NYC proper?  As far as I can tell, you have to get pretty far out on Long Island or north of the city to get toward affordable.

I mean, there's this fucking palace for $549k in Jamaica.  New York that is.

Comps inside the Loop in Houston:

 N. Montrose / River Oaks shopping center duplex -- live in half, rent out the other, profit enough to install central, lol:

 

Heights:

Timbergrove:

[Stunns38 3713]

It's a middle class town. And has older housing stock. And yeah, it has brown people in it.  If you want new mcmansions, then you have to go all the way out to Orange County.
 

Orange County? Wait wut? Do you mean Dutchess County? Ain’t shit happening in Orange County but a lot of Hasidics leaving Brooklyn and starting colonies up there draining resources. No racist.

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

7 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

If you want to disagree with the article, then back it up with actual numbers

See post #2 and #14. 

[Stunns38 3713]

Seriously, though, Brooklyn is gentrifying, even the Bronx and Harlem and every place I look is expensive and tiny.  And old and kind of decrepit.
Where to working people live in NYC proper?  As far as I can tell, you have to get pretty far out on Long Island or north of the city to get toward affordable.
I mean, there's this fucking palace for $549k in Jamaica.  New York that is.

Much of the working class live in Rent stabilized Apts or even Housing Projects. It’s not uncommon to see city workers making well into the 6-figures living in projects in prime locations which have $5K 1 bedroom rentals directly across the street. See East Harlem or downtown Brooklyn.

Working class areas include Bayonne NJ, Deep in Jersey City, Ramsey NJ off of 17, New Rochelle, Nassau County, and the non hip parts of the outer boroughs amongst tons of other places.

Oh, then they move to Atlanta, Florida, Texas, and the Carolinas.

[RPM 26433]

Public transportation in NYC vs Houston are light-years apart.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, Stunns38 said:

 

Orange County? Wait wut? Do you mean Dutchess County? Ain’t shit happening in Orange County but a lot of Hasidics leaving Brooklyn and starting colonies up there draining resources. No racist.

 

Dutchess too.  Hasidics are concentrated in one spot in Orange. The rest has suburban developments popping up in it. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Seriously, though, Brooklyn is gentrifying, even the Bronx and Harlem and every place I look is expensive and tiny.  And old and kind of decrepit.

Where to working people live in NYC proper?  As far as I can tell, you have to get pretty far out on Long Island or north of the city to get toward affordable.

I mean, there's this fucking palace for $549k in Jamaica.  New York that is.

There are plenty of working class areas in the boros.

Your big issue is that you are making a square foot comparison.  NYC is a dense city. Most 2 bdrm, and even 3 bdrm, apartments are less than 1000 sf.  Single family homes near the subway just aren't "working class" anymore and the majority of non-historic single family lots near subway stations have been upzoned for multifamily and that is reflected in the value.

Jamaica is also one of four or five catch all postal addresses in Queens. Not sure if that blue house is in Jamaica proper.  Still, the price reflects likely upzoning. It can probably be torn down and replaced with a 3 family. It also looks like two family already.  One front door on the right. The other under the yellow awning. Could also have a finished basement with an illegal studio in it.   Another thing that jacks up housing values. 

It is an apartment/condo/co-op city.  People live in smaller places for walking access to urban amenities. 

Brooklyn is also a whole county.  As is the Bronx. Some of it is gentrifying. Some of it isn't.  Staten Island is also still in NYC.  Manhattan is overly expensive save Inwood. But Manhattan is a tiny dot, a lot of which is zoned commerical, making the residential areas even tinier.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, Stunns38 said:

 

Much of the working class live in Rent stabilized Apts or even Housing Projects. It’s not uncommon to see city workers making well into the 6-figures living in projects in prime locations which have $5K 1 bedroom rentals directly across the street. See East Harlem or downtown Brooklyn.

Working class areas include Bayonne NJ, Deep in Jersey City, Ramsey NJ off of 17, New Rochelle, Nassau County, and the non hip parts of the outer boroughs amongst tons of other places.

Oh, then they move to Atlanta, Florida, Texas, and the Carolinas.

 

Bayonne isn't all that working class. Working class is South Jersey City, the Palisade towns, Kearney, Newark, Irvington, half of the Oranges, Elizabeth, Paterson, Rahway, etc.  What you don't really see anymore are the old mostly white working class neighborhoods. In Brooklyn, those old residents cashed in, and most remaining aren't making working class income anymore. Skilled trades make 6 figures. Even places like Throgs Neck in the Bronx are like this now. The working class neighborhoods in the Bronx are primarily Latino and there are still plenty of them. Only Mott Haven is gentrifying.

Also downtown Brooklyn and East Harlem are 2 of the most expensive neighborhoods now. They aren't working class at all. Housing projects are dispersed. They largely don't reflect the makeup of the surrounding area. 

Also, the majority of the working class still live in single family homes with extended family in areas that have been upzoned. Eventually, some of them will cash in on that. Unlike wall streeters and lawyers, most working class grew up right where they still are. Before anything gentrified and before Bloomberg and deblasio started upzoning everything.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

See post #2 and #14. 

2 completely ignores transportation costs which is Houston's killer cost. 11 talks about size which is irrelevant when comparing housing costs in a dense city with unchecked suburban sprawl. 

Also, none of you read the fucking article and neither had I til now. Houston is slightly cheaper nominally until income differences are factored in which is when NYC becomes cheaper.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19246]

13 hours ago, Foosters said:

I think the article is overstating it, but I will say people always assume that my tax burden here in CA must be astronomical compared to those in low-tax Texas. That is, until we get to discussing property taxes.

Property taxes in New York and Jersey are high as well.  But a lot of that has to do with the value of the property.

For me to buy a coop or a condo, even in the outer boroughs, I am looking at a minimum of a million.  The property tax on that is incredibly high.  

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19246]

12 hours ago, Foosters said:

Holy shit man. Calm down.

I simply stated that people are often surprised to learn that property taxes in CA are lower than TX.

 

 

Property taxes in CA are a whole different ballgame.  There was a prop passed years ago that basically froze your property taxes at some asinine rate and capped the annual value they could ascribe .  Especially if you remodeled.  My aunt has benefitted for years. 

[Iceman 2820]

6 hours ago, RPM said:

Public transportation in NYC vs Houston are light-years apart.

Some of the terminals are beyond fucked up, as in human filth and stenches in the restrooms that make me stay the fuck out of them. that ain't hyperbole either.  They are out of some 3rd world slum or some shit.

Aside from that, when we've gone up there, yeah, I'm usually left telling myself I wouldn't even own a car there, because the driving and parking are a beating.  The system itself is fantastic.  You don't have to worry about traffic jams or driving around to find parking.  The efficiency is a great trade off.

Some of the people though...OMFG.

[RiceOwl 74]

5 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Bayonne isn't all that working class. Working class is South Jersey City, the Palisade towns, Kearney, Newark, Irvington, half of the Oranges, Elizabeth, Paterson, Rahway, etc.  What you don't really see anymore are the old mostly white working class neighborhoods. In Brooklyn, those old residents cashed in, and most remaining aren't making working class income anymore. Skilled trades make 6 figures. Even places like Throgs Neck in the Bronx are like this now. The working class neighborhoods in the Bronx are primarily Latino and there are still plenty of them. Only Mott Haven is gentrifying.

Also downtown Brooklyn and East Harlem are 2 of the most expensive neighborhoods now. They aren't working class at all. Housing projects are dispersed. They largely don't reflect the makeup of the surrounding area. 

Also, the majority of the working class still live in single family homes with extended family in areas that have been upzoned. Eventually, some of them will cash in on that. Unlike wall streeters and lawyers, most working class grew up right where they still are. Before anything gentrified and before Bloomberg and deblasio started upzoning everything.

East Harlem isn’t one of the most expensive neighborhoods in Harlem, so not sure exactly what you mean. Generally speaking, rents increase as you go west in Harlem. Public transit leaves something to be desired in East Harlem as they haven’t extended the 2nd Avenue Subway past 96th yet. 
 

I recently moved from Dallas to the Upper East Side (live in the 80’s) and I was paying $1,400 for a 2017 build, 750sqft place in Frisco prior to the move. I now have a pre-war studio with no dishwasher for $1900/month. That said, one nice thing about living in a pre-war building is that I don’t have to pay for water/heat so my all-in cost is probably only $400 higher vs. $500. 

[Iceman 2820]

My gas bill was $60 last month in the dead of winter.  Water/ sanitation was $50.

Fuck that rent for a microscopic living area. You're basically living in a hotel room.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Iceman

[RiceOwl 74]

3 minutes ago, Iceman said:

My gas bill was $60 last month in the dead of winter.  Water/ sanitation was $50.

Fuck that rent for a microscopic living area. You're basically living in a hotel room.

Eh, my place is 450 SqFt so it’s a bit bigger than a hotel room, but point taken.

I certainly didn’t make the move for housing reasons... Career considerations, distance to family, and access to recreational opportunities were bigger reasons. 

[Iceman 2820]

Just now, RiceOwl said:

Eh, my place is 450 SqFt so it’s a bit bigger than a hotel room, but point taken.

I certainly didn’t make the move for housing reasons... Career considerations, distance to family, and access to recreational opportunities were bigger reasons. 

fair enough. Those are absolutely real too.

 

[TwiceHorn 31705]

11 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

Hahahaha, I was just about to ask if the author was 1010wins trying to explain to his children.

I can't remember the details, but didn't he start a thread on TOS asking for advice on taking out a huge loan to pay for daycare, so that he could move his new family to Manhattan?

You are correct, sir.  He already lived somewhere in the city; it was so his wife could go back to work, IIRC.

He seemingly refused to accept that living wherever he lived in NYC was a lifestyle choice that was no longer feasible with children, and that somehow the government should come to his rescue.

[TwiceHorn 31705]

26 minutes ago, RiceOwl said:

I was paying $1,400 for a 2017 build, 750sqft place in Frisco 

Signs and wonders.  It's not the one thing.  It's the dismal tide.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

51 minutes ago, RiceOwl said:

East Harlem isn’t one of the most expensive neighborhoods in Harlem, so not sure exactly what you mean. Generally speaking, rents increase as you go west in Harlem. Public transit leaves something to be desired in East Harlem as they haven’t extended the 2nd Avenue Subway past 96th yet. 
 

I recently moved from Dallas to the Upper East Side (live in the 80’s) and I was paying $1,400 for a 2017 build, 750sqft place in Frisco prior to the move. I now have a pre-war studio with no dishwasher for $1900/month. That said, one nice thing about living in a pre-war building is that I don’t have to pay for water/heat so my all-in cost is probably only $400 higher vs. $500. 

Every neighborhood in Manhattan except Washington Heights and Inwood are among the most expensive neighborhoods in NYC as a whole, East Harlem included. Your rent is also pretty cheap for the UES.  In Astoria or Woodside, you could have found a studio for almost the same rent you were paying in Frisco if you looked hard enough.  Also keep in mind that you are making rent comparisons between what is practically an exurb of Dallas with the core of NYC, and your particular comparison still favors NYC.

The big difference you are missing, and the point of the article really, is that you don't have car expenses to pay. By itself, this is easily 500 to 600 a month for most individuals. And even if you are one of the crazy people who move to Manhattan and try to keep a car, you absolutely have no need for it. It's a luxury item. 

Some people prefer pre-war buildings. And it is true that all new construction is pretty much marketed as high end and have higher rents, even though much of it is flimsy. 

Iconoclast was also probably right concerning rents in what he considers "shitholes.". The truth is that crime is so low in the five boros now that there is no true "shithole".  It's still higher in bad neighborhoods in Texas.

But there is still The Hole in Brooklyn where you can pretty much just live rent free if you wanted to. And also neighborhoods in NJ that are still truly crime ridden and still have depressed rents. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Property taxes in New York and Jersey are high as well.  But a lot of that has to do with the value of the property.

For me to buy a coop or a condo, even in the outer boroughs, I am looking at a minimum of a million.  The property tax on that is incredibly high.  

 

Not that there is anything wrong with choosing to look only at $million+ condos and co-ops with your income, but again you are making a choice to do so.  2 and 3 bedroom co-ops are much cheaper than that in all but the most expensive outer borough neighborhoods.  Most of Queens and Brooklyn are east of the BQE.  It's fine to not want to live there, but it's disingenuous to suggest that LIC or Williamsburg reflect borough wide housing costs.  They don't. 

NYC property taxes are also lower than much of the state because of the NYC income tax. They still get their money, but differently. 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

What you're not taking into consideration when mentioning places like Elizabeth, Oranges, Rahway, Newark, etc to Houston suburban locations and good close-in city neighborhoods are the schools. None of us here would willingly send our children to the public schools in those towns. They're beyond awful. You can rent an apartment in Houston and send your kids to a good school district or individual HISD schools in the good pockets.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19246]

17 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Not that there is anything wrong with choosing to look only at $million+ condos and co-ops with your income, but again you are making a choice to do so.  2 and 3 bedroom co-ops are much cheaper than that in all but the most expensive outer borough neighborhoods.  Most of Queens and Brooklyn are east of the BQE.  It's fine to not want to live there, but it's disingenuous to suggest that LIC or Williamsburg reflect borough wide housing costs.  They don't. 

NYC property taxes are also lower than much of the state because of the NYC income tax. They still get their money, but differently. 

Have you looked at real restate recently in NYC?  Have you looked at maintenance and coop fees?  Do you know about tipping the building employees you live in?

I can assure you, it is not as cheap as you think it is.  You are paying location.  You will pay more for a good location, and it isn't going to be cheap.  Considering that I am currently considering buying vs continuing to rent, I am absolutely paying attention to this. I also have a very good friend who is a real estate broker here.  I am on top of the market in NYC at the moment.

 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

15 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Have you looked at real restate recently in NYC?  Have you looked at maintenance and coop fees?  Do you know about tipping the building employees you live in?

I can assure you, it is not as cheap as you think it is.  You are paying location.  You will pay more for a good location, and it isn't going to be cheap.  Considering that I am currently considering buying vs continuing to rent, I am absolutely paying attention to this. I also have a very good friend who is a real estate broker here.  I am on top of the market in NYC at the moment.

 

Tipping all the building staff for Christmas would easily cost a grand or more at a good, new high rise like I lived in Manhattan (humble brag) 15 years ago. You can probably double it now for the new buildings with all of the hotel-like amenities and perks.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Iconoclast Texan

[huge 3803]

Ok so if I want a house with a real yard what's the comparison in NY Metro?  What the article doesn't address are preferences.

What if I want 4 or 5 bedrooms?

Seems like yes, you CAN make NYC area on par with Houston if you rig up the constraints.  But no where can you get a 3000-4000 sq foot house for 500k.  Which is what people move to Houston for I guess.

 

Also I should probably say here that I live in a 100 year old 1400 sq foot house that is likely closer to NYC price per foot.  So I don't really have a strong preference towards what I mention above

Edited January 23, 2020 by huge

[Pig Bellmont 8777]

1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

Every neighborhood in Manhattan except Washington Heights and Inwood are among the most expensive neighborhoods in NYC as a whole, East Harlem included. Your rent is also pretty cheap for the UES.  In Astoria or Woodside, you could have found a studio for almost the same rent you were paying in Frisco if you looked hard enough.  Also keep in mind that you are making rent comparisons between what is practically an exurb of Dallas with the core of NYC, and your particular comparison still favors NYC.

The big difference you are missing, and the point of the article really, is that you don't have car expenses to pay. By itself, this is easily 500 to 600 a month for most individuals. And even if you are one of the crazy people who move to Manhattan and try to keep a car, you absolutely have no need for it. It's a luxury item. 

Some people prefer pre-war buildings. And it is true that all new construction is pretty much marketed as high end and have higher rents, even though much of it is flimsy. 

Iconoclast was also probably right concerning rents in what he considers "shitholes.". The truth is that crime is so low in the five boros now that there is no true "shithole".  It's still higher in bad neighborhoods in Texas.

But there is still The Hole in Brooklyn where you can pretty much just live rent free if you wanted to. And also neighborhoods in NJ that are still truly crime ridden and still have depressed rents. 

Please stop defending the ridiculous premise that Houston has anywhere close to equal cost of living as New York. Cost of living includes transportation, child care, utilities, taxes, food/groceries, medical costs. You can’t simply state no one in NY pays for cars and car maintenance and then exclude it from transportation calculations. You also can’t ignore the other costs which are across the board higher. And housing costs are NOT equivalent. 
 

Seriously. You look like a moron. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19293]

Y'all shut the fuck up about flawed logic and all that shit.  I'm using this article in my yearly review with my boss to justify a huge cost of living allowance raise. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

14 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Have you looked at real restate recently in NYC?  Have you looked at maintenance and coop fees?  Do you know about tipping the building employees you live in?

I can assure you, it is not as cheap as you think it is.  You are paying location.  You will pay more for a good location, and it isn't going to be cheap.  Considering that I am currently considering buying vs continuing to rent, I am absolutely paying attention to this. I also have a very good friend who is a real estate broker here.  I am on top of the market in NYC at the moment.

 

Yes, I own a co-op in NYC. I know exactly what they cost. You should probably check the median sales price in Brooklyn and Queens. 

Again, it is fine that you are looking for higher end buildings in hip neighborhoods.  But you can absolutely find co-ops in well managed buildings in good neighborhoods with good schools for less than half of what you believe. Ironically, outside of a handful of neighborhoods centered around Park Slope, the most expensive neighborhoods also have shitty schools. 

Also, middle class buildings pool tips anonymously for employees.  All your complaints mostly apply to upper class buildings. Which, once again, is fine to look for, but isn't representative of actual costs for the average NY homebuyer. 

That you aren't willing to look at Bayside and all of greater Flushing, Bay Ridge, Kew Gardens, Sheepshead Bay, Ditmas Park, Gravesend, Bensonhurst, Sunnyside, Jackson Heights, inner Astoria, or even Forest Hills which is a wealthy neighborhood, doesn't mean they don't exist. 

And Forest Hills is a good example even though it's wealthy.  Traditionally, it's probably the best neighborhood in Queens.  Has always been one of the most expensive. It has the best schools. It has easy access to express subway service. It has bars and restaurants. It isn't hip though. While it has million dollar 2 bdrm condos in newer high rises, the sales prices for the last 2 years for 2 bdrms are mostly 550 and below.  The safe middle class boring neighborhoods around it are even cheaper. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

13 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Please stop defending the ridiculous premise that Houston has anywhere close to equal cost of living as New York. Cost of living includes transportation, child care, utilities, taxes, food/groceries, medical costs. You can’t simply state no one in NY pays for cars and car maintenance and then exclude it from transportation calculations. You also can’t ignore the other costs which are across the board higher. And housing costs are NOT equivalent. 
 

Seriously. You look like a moron. 

Ok Boomer. 

[TwiceHorn 31705]

I can get no yard and a small space, but the staggeringly awful kitchens in cheap, small NYC apts and condos is a no-go.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19246]

5 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Yes, I own a co-op in NYC. I know exactly what they cost. You should probably check the median sales price in Brooklyn and Queens. 

Again, it is fine that you are looking for higher end buildings in hip neighborhoods.  But you can absolutely find co-ops in well managed buildings in good neighborhoods with good schools for less than half of what you believe. Ironically, outside of a handful of neighborhoods centered around Park Slope, the most expensive neighborhoods also have shitty schools. 

Also, middle class buildings pool tips anonymously for employees.  All your complaints mostly apply to upper class buildings. Which, once again, is fine to look for, but isn't representative of actual costs for the average NY homebuyer. 

That you aren't willing to look at Bayside and all of greater Flushing, Bay Ridge, Kew Gardens, Sheepshead Bay, Ditmas Park, Gravesend, Bensonhurst, Sunnyside, Jackson Heights, inner Astoria, or even Forest Hills which is a wealthy neighborhood, doesn't mean they don't exist. 

And Forest Hills is a good example even though it's wealthy.  Traditionally, it's probably the best neighborhood in Queens.  Has always been one of the most expensive. It has the best schools. It has easy access to express subway service. It has bars and restaurants. It isn't hip though. While it has million dollar 2 bdrm condos in newer high rises, the sales prices for the last 2 years for 2 bdrms are mostly 550 and below.  The safe middle class boring neighborhoods around it are even cheaper. 

For most of those neighborhoods in Queens, my commute would be 1 hr plus on public transport, and that is on a good day.  Plus, transport links in those neighborhoods are not as great, so as a result, a car would be required.  Yes, I could keep my car, and only pay 200-300 a month parking, but then my insurance is about one and a half times what it was in Houston, and Houston is expensive from a car insurance perspective.  

I do not give a shit about schools.  I have zero kids, nor will I ever have one.  I do have dogs, so proximity to work with a less than 30 minute commute is vital.  Proximity to dog parks and green space is also important.  My office is in midtown, so it makes sense given I want little or no commute that I stay in Manhattan.  

I really love that you are telling me what the market looks like and what costs are when I have recently done the move, done the economic analysis, and am currently still weighing the market from a purchase perspective.  Truth is, even mid-tier buildings in Manhattan are dumb expensive at the moment.  And Price Per Sq Ft in Manhattan is a shitload more expensive than almost anything in Houston.  

Truth is, it will cost you at least 1.5 to 2 times what it costs in Houston in NYC for the SAME QUALITY OF LIFE.  And that is key, same quality of life.  The only thing that is cheaper in NYC is the airfare I pay to travel.  IAH is fucking expensive for flying. 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

26 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Yes, I own a co-op in NYC. I know exactly what they cost. You should probably check the median sales price in Brooklyn and Queens. 

Again, it is fine that you are looking for higher end buildings in hip neighborhoods.  But you can absolutely find co-ops in well managed buildings in good neighborhoods with good schools for less than half of what you believe. Ironically, outside of a handful of neighborhoods centered around Park Slope, the most expensive neighborhoods also have shitty schools. 

Also, middle class buildings pool tips anonymously for employees.  All your complaints mostly apply to upper class buildings. Which, once again, is fine to look for, but isn't representative of actual costs for the average NY homebuyer. 

That you aren't willing to look at Bayside and all of greater Flushing, Bay Ridge, Kew Gardens, Sheepshead Bay, Ditmas Park, Gravesend, Bensonhurst, Sunnyside, Jackson Heights, inner Astoria, or even Forest Hills which is a wealthy neighborhood, doesn't mean they don't exist. 

And Forest Hills is a good example even though it's wealthy.  Traditionally, it's probably the best neighborhood in Queens.  Has always been one of the most expensive. It has the best schools. It has easy access to express subway service. It has bars and restaurants. It isn't hip though. While it has million dollar 2 bdrm condos in newer high rises, the sales prices for the last 2 years for 2 bdrms are mostly 550 and below.  The safe middle class boring neighborhoods around it are even cheaper. 

None of us as college educated professionals from a good school like UT are going to move from Texas to the NYC area to live in a blue collar, working class to poor neighborhood. Sorry to sound elitist but that's the truth and that has to factor in when making the comparison. Professionals aren't living in Rahway or the Oranges nor are they sending their kids to the public schools. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

For most of those neighborhoods in Queens, my commute would be 1 hr plus on public transport, and that is on a good day.  Plus, transport links in those neighborhoods are not as great, so as a result, a car would be required.  Yes, I could keep my car, and only pay 200-300 a month parking, but then my insurance is about one and a half times what it was in Houston, and Houston is expensive from a car insurance perspective.  

I do not give a shit about schools.  I have zero kids, nor will I ever have one.  I do have dogs, so proximity to work with a less than 30 minute commute is vital.  Proximity to dog parks and green space is also important.  My office is in midtown, so it makes sense given I want little or no commute that I stay in Manhattan.  

I really love that you are telling me what the market looks like and what costs are when I have recently done the move, done the economic analysis, and am currently still weighing the market from a purchase perspective.  Truth is, even mid-tier buildings in Manhattan are dumb expensive at the moment.  And Price Per Sq Ft in Manhattan is a shitload more expensive than almost anything in Houston.  

Truth is, it will cost you at least 1.5 to 2 times what it costs in Houston in NYC for the SAME QUALITY OF LIFE.  And that is key, same quality of life.  The only thing that is cheaper in NYC is the airfare I pay to travel.  IAH is fucking expensive for flying. 

None of those neighborhoods except Bayside are inconvenient for subway service.  Car ownership isn't common or needed in them either.  Sunnyside is 5 stops to GCT. 3 stops to 59 and Lex. Forest Hills is 4 stops to 53 and Lex.  Queens is less convenient to get downtown, but it's much faster to get to Midtown than it is from hipster Brooklyn. 

Dog parks are already all over the place and most parks that don't have one are already being scheduled to get one. 

And who said Manhattan isn't expensive?  You've limited your search to only expensive neighborhoods. Once again, fine, but quit pretending it's indicative of the whole market. 

Disagree on quality of life. Driving to work sucks. It pretty much kills Houston QOL, imo.  Walkability also matters these days. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19246]

32 minutes ago, huge said:

Ok so if I want a house with a real yard what's the comparison in NY Metro?  What the article doesn't address are preferences.

What if I want 4 or 5 bedrooms?

Seems like yes, you CAN make NYC area on par with Houston if you rig up the constraints.  But no where can you get a 3000-4000 sq foot house for 500k.  Which is what people move to Houston for I guess.

 

Also I should probably say here that I live in a 100 year old 1400 sq foot house that is likely closer to NYC price per foot.  So I don't really have a strong preference towards what I mention above

You also have a lifestyle adjustment.  So yes, you can make NYC on par with Houston, but you have to scale back.  

For instance, self care.  In Houston, I had a place I went to every other week for a mani/pedi, to the same technician for the last 3 years.  It isn't the fanciest, but it is one of the best rated places in Houston.  That would cost be 35 plus 10 tip.  In Manhattan, a similar place starts at 50-60 for both services.  Eyebrow threading, 8-10 in Houston (if you can find it), 22 in NY.  Then things like haircuts.  I had gone to the same guy for 3 years.  I get my hair cut once, maybe twice a year.  You develop trust with your person.  Mine was usually 130-150 all in.  NY, starts at 200-250 and can go on up from there.  

Would you like more examples?  Equinox in Houston, membership is 150-160.  New York, 260.

My pilates studio in Houston was 179 a month for 12 classes per month.  It was within 2 miles of my house.  The cheapest studio I have found in NYC offers 8 classes for 350.

A good massage in Houston, 75.  NYC, starting around 100, so not too bad (finally, something good).  

Could I have lived in NYC cheaper than Houston.  Possibly.  But the life I would have led would be fucking miserable.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I can get no yard and a small space, but the staggeringly awful kitchens in cheap, small NYC apts and condos is a no-go.

You mean you're not a fan of galley kitchens with no kitchen disposals  haha

[Pig Bellmont 8777]

21 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Ok Boomer. 

I’m in my 30’s. But please continue making an ass of yourself. Or take 5 seconds to review HUD data on fair market rents across each metro area for 2020 instead of rambling about co op owning

[FondrenRoad 4378]

6 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

None of us as college educated professionals from a good school like UT are going to move from Texas to the NYC area to live in a blue collar, working class to poor neighborhood. Sorry to sound elitist but that's the truth and that has to factor in when making the comparison. Professionals aren't living in Rahway or the Oranges nor are they sending their kids to the public schools. 

None of the neighborhoods in the post you quoted are working class, blue collar, or poor.  And don't be sorry. You are elitist and that proves my point. You insist upon living in the most expensive part of NYC and in Houston, you probably live somewhere like Bellaire. Bellaire is equivalent to the neighborhoods I just posted. It is not equivalent to anywhere in Manhattan. River Oaks is equivalent to Manhattan. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by FondrenRoad

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19246]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

None of those neighborhoods except Bayside are inconvenient for subway service.  Car ownership isn't common or needed in them either.  Sunnyside is 5 stops to GCT. 3 stops to 59 and Lex. Forest Hills is 4 stops to 53 and Lex.  Queens is less convenient to get downtown, but it's much faster to get to Midtown than it is from hipster Brooklyn. 

Dog parks are already all over the place and most parks that don't have one are already being scheduled to get one. 

And who said Manhattan isn't expensive?  You've limited your search to only expensive neighborhoods. Once again, fine, but quit pretending it's indicative of the whole market. 

Disagree on quality of life. Driving to work sucks. It pretty much kills Houston QOL, imo.  Walkability also matters these days. 

One of the guys who works with me lives in Sunnyside.  About half the time it takes him 30-45 minutes.  The other days, hour at best.

Dependent on MTA to get to work is a shitshow.  

And if you are in the loop in Houston, driving isn't too terrible.  I was on the west side of downtown, commuting from the Heights, and most days it would be 20-30 minutes door to door.  

Oh yes, another thing that is cheaper in Houston than Manhattan are Uber and Lyft.

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

Just now, Pig Bellmont said:

I’m in my 30’s. But please continue making an ass of yourself. Or take 5 seconds to review HUD data on fair market rents across each metro area for 2020 instead of rambling about co op owning

Ok Boomer. It's not about rents. It's about cars. Read the OP again.