Houston cost of living more than NYC?

[TwiceHorn 31,646]

Geezus, calm down.

The problem is, everything is more expensive in NYC than in Houston.  Even making the necessary "lifestyle adjustments" without criticizing them, every damn thing in NYC is 25-100% or more more expensive in NYC than Houston.

By only comparing housing and transportation, the TM article leaves out every other damn thing that's more expensive.

Can you make it in NYC for the same money as Houston, yeah, probably.  But there will be compromises, some will be trade-offs, and some will be flat compromises.

Edited January 24, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Pig Bellmont 8,744]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The research speaks for itself.  The raw comparison of car ownership between a place where everyone actually owns a car and a place where fewer than half of people own a car is irrelevant.  Just like the cost differences between Ninfa's in Houston and the non-existant Ninfa's in NYC are irrelevant.  And just like you are irrelevant.  If you don't like the results, then go fund another research project. 

Until then, go fuck yourself, fuckstick.  Your existence really serves no purpose to anyone.

The actual research from the “study” still came out living in NY was on average $70+ per month more expensive than Houston. And no, it’s not “irrelevant” to point out the flaws of the underlying methodology, that’s how someone evaluates the merits of the article’s conclusions. And the merits are worthless bc it ignores key factors that go into the true “cost of living”

 

Your tantrum tells me you’re so embarrassed by your own pseudo intellectual bullshit being exposed that you went with a personal attack here. Congrats on your power of persuasion. 

[Dahobbs 17,717]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The research speaks for itself.  The raw comparison of car ownership between a place where everyone actually owns a car and a place where fewer than half of people own a car is irrelevant.  Just like the cost differences between Ninfa's in Houston and the non-existant Ninfa's in NYC are irrelevant.  And just like you are irrelevant.  If you don't like the results, then go fund another research project. 

Until then, go fuck yourself, fuckstick.  Your existence really serves no purpose to anyone.

Again, their data was based on WHAT PEOPLE WERE ACTUALLY SPENDING THEIR MONEY ON. It is really about spending habits, and not about anything else. It doesn't tell you what they actually got for that money, which is what everyone thinks about when you use the words "cheap" vs "expensive". If you want to answer the question of which city has the population that spends the lower percentage of its pre-tax income on housing and transportation, then I guess this "study" (it isn't a study) answers that question. But it doesn't tell you anything at all about what they received for that money. That people in Houston may choose to spend a greater percentage of their income on housing and transportation does not mean Houston is a more expensive place to live. For instance, perhaps people spend a greater percentage of income on those things because EVERYTHING ELSE IS CHEAPER and BECAUSE THEY ARE TAXED LESS. And, what they ultimately get is going to be, dollar-for-dollar, better than what would be available in NYC for the same price. That is literally the definition of the word "cheaper."

Simple scenario, could the average household in Houston survive just fine in a ~500 sq ft home? Sure. It'd be tight, but they could do it, just like families in NYC do. If the average household did that, the percentage of their income spent on housing would plummet. People don't choose to do that because, well, why the fuck would they? You don't need to do that in Houston because IT IS CHEAPER THAN NYC. 

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Again, you are measuring something different. I agree, the market in NYC is different. But, that is BECAUSE IT IS MORE EXPENSIVE. People don't demand smaller housing in NYC because smaller housing is more desirable. The demand exists for smaller housing BECAUSE LARGER HOUSING IS MORE EXPENSIVE. If you gave a random average household in NYC an unlimited amount of money, do you think they'd stay in their 500 square foot home or move to a larger property?

None of that is to say that NYC is bad or that living in NYC is bad. I strongly believe the opposite. But, it is more expensive. It just is. Yes, you can live there for around the same price that you can live in Houston. But, your house will be smaller. It will have less luxury items in it. It will have less/no yard. In general, your home will be of a lesser quality. That isn't because you wanted a smaller place of lesser quality. It is because that is what is available in your price range. Again, for many that trade off, which exists BECAUSE NYC IS MORE EXPENSIVE, is worth it for other quality of life reasons. 

The market in NYC is not different "because it is more expensive."  It is different because it is different.  If I gave that random household an unlimited amount of money, they might move into Tom Brady's 5,000 SF condo at most.  If they wanted a McMansion, they'd move to North Carolina.  What they wouldn't do is build a McMansion with a 2 car garage on a Manhattan block.  And you know, Tom Brady could afford to have a home 2 or 3 times that size in Manhattan.  He doesn't.

Again, people don't move here so they can drive everywhere and have nowhere that is in walking distance.  I get that I'm trying to tell a bunch of Houstonians that there are people that don't give a shit about owning a car, and that there are people that prefer there still be 2 restaurants, a bar, and a bodega on their block instead of their single McMansion, but these people do, in fact, exist.  And I'm one of them.  I could win the lottery, and would do little more than buy the co-op next to mine, and I might not even do that.  I have no need for an extra room at the moment.  Having unlimited money would do nothing to change that.

Also, look up the Tiny House Movement.  Bigger isn't always better. 

 

[Spankytoes 1,743]

18 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Again with the space argument.  That is entirely irrelevant.  NYC is a city.  Houston is a bunch of suburbs put together.  Its about actual expenses.  Its all in the article.  Take that $425 and compare it to the vehicle costs of your 2 car household in Houston.

Also, you live on the damn beach.  How much do you expect to pay for a house you can rent out for $400 a night during the summer?  That's cheap all things considered.  So far, all I've been hearing are a bunch of anecdotes from people that choose expensive lifestyles compared to the average NYer.  Guess what?  You aren't average.  Neither is Penelope.

Astoria is also not a good value area if you want to live near the subway.  Its simply cheaper than Manhattan and close-in Brooklyn.  The 5 million or so people who live further away from Manhattan all get better value.  A good value area is Briarwood.  Keep this in mind.  There are 8.6 million NYers.  The posters here have shown willingness to live in an area where fewer than 2 million people live.  And even that's being generous because I'm sure that most of you aren't going to choose to live above 110 street either.  Then we get to see them make a comparison between the most expensive 20% of NYC with all of Houston.

All this convo would already be finished and you'd understand the article is accurate if you also understood that NYC is a much bigger place than you realize it is.  It isn't a comparison between the cost of living in Houston and NYC for Texas people working on Wall Street.  Its a comparison between everyone living in both cities.

1. Houston is a city. Greater Houston includes boroughs. NYC has "the City", aka Manhattan. All the other boroughs are the "suburbs". Long Island and Westchester are akin to the Woodlands or Katy. I'm not sure why you are lumping all 5 boroughs as a conglomerate. Even NYers would refer to the outer boroughs as the "bridge and tunnel" crowd. I live 30 miles from downtown Manhattan where I work. It would take a solid hour in a car without traffic door to door from my office to my house. My commute is over 1.5 hours each way, including walking. 

2. The argument wasn't about the value, it was about the cost. I can guarantee that my mortgage is similar to what the average NYer pays monthly for rent. Penelope no doubt pays more monthly than I do for her apartment. In exchange, she is closer to the action of the city and all it offers. I prefer to have an escape from the city as I commute 5 days a week for work. There are trade-offs. I can own a car and she is limited to public transport or car services to get around. (I don't take her for the Citibike kind of gal) I can't speak for her, but I am solid middle class or upper middle class, if you want to get technical. My apartment in Hell's Kitchen was $3,200/mth for a converted 1 bedroom in 2014 with less than 900 sq. ft. My current mortgage is less in 2020 with more space.

3. Again, I am referring to cost. You get a lot of bang for your buck in Astoria. You could get a similar setup in Jersey City of Hoboken if you wanted proximity, travel options and costs. The downside is taxes for those that work in NY and the PATH isn't reliable on the weekends. I can't think of an area in Astoria that would take more than 12 minutes to walk to a N-R-Q. 

4. NYC is not that big. It's only big when you start sweeping areas into it. Manhattan is roughly 2 miles across. It's simply more dense than Houston. If we want to make it the Tri-State area, and bring NJ and CT into the mix, then sure. 

[Spankytoes 1,743]

7 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The market in NYC is not different "because it is more expensive."  It is different because it is different.  If I gave that random household an unlimited amount of money, they might move into Tom Brady's 5,000 SF condo at most.  If they wanted a McMansion, they'd move to North Carolina.  What they wouldn't do is build a McMansion with a 2 car garage on a Manhattan block.  And you know, Tom Brady could afford to have a home 2 or 3 times that size in Manhattan.  He doesn't.

Again, people don't move here so they can drive everywhere and have nowhere that is in walking distance.  I get that I'm trying to tell a bunch of Houstonians that there are people that don't give a shit about owning a car, and that there are people that prefer there still be 2 restaurants, a bar, and a bodega on their block instead of their single McMansion, but these people do, in fact, exist.  And I'm one of them.  I could win the lottery, and would do little more than buy the co-op next to mine, and I might not even do that.  I have no need for an extra room at the moment.  Having unlimited money would do nothing to change that.

Also, look up the Tiny House Movement.  Bigger isn't always better. 

 

I lived in Dallas for 35 years, which is comparable to the cost of living in Houston. I could not live in NY on the salary I earned in Dallas. I could live very comfortably in Dallas/Houston on my current NY salary. The reason I am paid so much more isn't because of the generosity of my employer. 

[next2naus 439]

56 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

And they don't have to for a few reasons.  They are a billable or deductible expense for one.  I see clients in Manhattan and CT typically.  The first is already part of my unlimited Metrocard.  MNR and Lyft in CT is billed.  If anything, this will end up being more expensive in Houston because in Houston, driving everywhere is a certainty.  In Manhattan, the vast majority of client visits are done via the subway using an already purchased unlimited ride card.

I flew to Chicago 2 weeks ago and will go to NC next week.  Also billed to the clients, but even if it wasn't, it isn't nor should it be a considered transportation expense for this type of comparison.

 

 

Billable/deductible, etc, it still impacts cost and cash flow and not as convenient (there is a soft cost there) as hoping in your car and going. the car costs less in H town. period

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Again, their data was based on WHAT PEOPLE WERE ACTUALLY SPENDING THEIR MONEY ON. It is really about spending habits, and not about anything else. It doesn't tell you what they actually got for that money, which is what everyone thinks about when you use the words "cheap" vs "expensive". If you want to answer the question of which city has the population that spends the lower percentage of its pre-tax income on housing and transportation, then I guess this "study" (it isn't a study) answers that question. But it doesn't tell you anything at all about what they received for that money. That people in Houston may choose to spend a greater percentage of their income on housing and transportation does not mean Houston is a more expensive place to live. For instance, perhaps people spend a greater percentage of income on those things because EVERYTHING ELSE IS CHEAPER and BECAUSE THEY ARE TAXED LESS. And, what they ultimately get is going to be, dollar-for-dollar, better than what would be available in NYC for the same price. That is literally the definition of the word "cheaper."

Simple scenario, could the average household in Houston survive just fine in a ~500 sq ft home? Sure. It'd be tight, but they could do it, just like families in NYC do. If the average household did that, the percentage of their income spent on housing would plummet. People don't choose to do that because, well, why the fuck would they? You don't need to do that in Houston because IT IS CHEAPER THAN NYC. 

Not sure why you keep using 500 sf as an example either.  You guys are prone to using extremes as examples.  The average studio apartment is 550 sf.  The average household isn't living in a studio, much less one that small, and hardly any families are living in a 500 sf place.  If they are, there options in Houston would likely be the street rather than a larger dwelling.  They wouldn't be able to get to whatever check-to-check job they managed to get down there since they couldn't afford a car.  Also, in their income range, they'd be getting paid 50% less than they do here at $15/hr.

And again, I know what you are trying to say.  You still don't understand what I'm saying.  This is why you shouldn't use words like "better" when describing Houston housing stock.  You are trying to limit the definition of "better" to size and age alone.  That is simply an incorrect way to view it even if we make comparisons between different parts of Houston.  Location, safety, lifestyle, and nearby attractions have always been drivers of real estate pricing, and are also factors in determining what is "better."

Let's put it in easier terms.  The housing I desire has 2 bdrms, is less than a 5 minute walk from the nearest grocery store, has a park within a 10 minute walk, has at least 10 restaurants, cafes, or bars within a 15 minute walk, has access to mass transit within a 10 minute walk, and has several other stores such as hardware stores within a 10 minute walk.  For me, this is the "better" housing.  And this is almost undoubtedly cheaper to find in NYC than Houston if it even exists in Houston at all.

You could literally give me a house in somewhere like West U for free with the requirement that I live in it for a year.  I wouldn't take it.  I don't find it "better" than what I could get for the same price here, and I find the lifestyle exceedingly "worse" to the point of being dismal.  And West U has nice homes.  The rest of Houston, especially newer suburbs are a lot worse.   People move to Houston because its a place to move that isn't bumfuck Louisiana or Mississippi and it has jobs.  Others move there because a job forces them to.  Almost zero people move there because they like the lifestyle.  People move to Austin for the lifestyle.  A lot of people move to NYC specifically for the lifestyle. People looking for condos on this very thread included. They aren't wanting a McMansion, but buying a 2 bdrm apartment instead.  And even if they did, they realize that if everyone had McMansions, it would just be a lifeless suburb like Sugar Land.  Lifestyle is absolutely part of housing value and "what you get" for your money.  How about you quit discounting that fact?

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

5 minutes ago, next2naus said:

Billable/deductible, etc, it still impacts cost and cash flow and not as convenient (there is a soft cost there) as hoping in your car and going. the car costs less in H town. period

Well, then flights to clients as well as hotels should be included in transportation costs. 

And yes, a car costs less in H-town. You know what costs even less than a car in H-town?  Not having a car at all.  You know, like most NYers.

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

41 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

1. Houston is a city. Greater Houston includes boroughs. NYC has "the City", aka Manhattan. All the other boroughs are the "suburbs". Long Island and Westchester are akin to the Woodlands or Katy. I'm not sure why you are lumping all 5 boroughs as a conglomerate. Even NYers would refer to the outer boroughs as the "bridge and tunnel" crowd. I live 30 miles from downtown Manhattan where I work. It would take a solid hour in a car without traffic door to door from my office to my house. My commute is over 1.5 hours each way, including walking. 

Houston is an incorporated city, yes.  It is not a city with an actual urban fabric.  Instead, it has suburban style living all the way to its downtown core.  Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx offer far more urban density than Houston.  Even Staten Island is twice as dense as Houston is.  Only Staten Island and Eastern Queens are even remotely considered suburbs either by name or by character.

I'm lumping all 5 boroughs in because the article is about NYC and that includes all five boroughs.  You live at the end of a commuter rail line.  Nobody is disputing that.  You chose that over more affordable and closer housing because you like the beach lifestyle.  People probably drive into Houston from Galveston every day too.

41 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

2. The argument wasn't about the value, it was about the cost. I can guarantee that my mortgage is similar to what the average NYer pays monthly for rent. Penelope no doubt pays more monthly than I do for her apartment. In exchange, she is closer to the action of the city and all it offers. I prefer to have an escape from the city as I commute 5 days a week for work. There are trade-offs. I can own a car and she is limited to public transport or car services to get around. (I don't take her for the Citibike kind of gal) I can't speak for her, but I am solid middle class or upper middle class, if you want to get technical. My apartment in Hell's Kitchen was $3,200/mth for a converted 1 bedroom in 2014 with less than 900 sq. ft. My current mortgage is less in 2020 with more space.

If you only want to talk cost, then the article is entirely correct, and you are wrong.  And we're done here.  Instead, you are absolutely talking about value because you mention square feet in this very post as well as your prior post.  Cost is simple.  You live in a place and you pay $x to do so.  Determining how your place compares to other places is entirely a discussion about value.  Value is simply your return on that cost.

 

50 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

3. Again, I am referring to cost. You get a lot of bang for your buck in Astoria. You could get a similar setup in Jersey City of Hoboken if you wanted proximity, travel options and costs. The downside is taxes for those that work in NY and the PATH isn't reliable on the weekends. I can't think of an area in Astoria that would take more than 12 minutes to walk to a N-R-Q. 

You still aren't referring to cost.  You are referring to value again and you are including proximity and nightlife in that value.  Again, on cost alone, neither Astoria, Jersey City, or Hoboken offer "bang for you buck" when compared to NYC as a whole and certainly not when you compare them to the whole NYC metro.  All are relatively expensive neighborhoods.   If cost alone matters, you wouldn't choose any of those three neighborhoods.  Much of Astoria is far from the subway, but its unlikely that you would have ever ventured far from a subway stop.  Also you would have to swim to get the Q from Astoria.  

 

53 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

4. NYC is not that big. It's only big when you start sweeping areas into it. Manhattan is roughly 2 miles across. It's simply more dense than Houston. If we want to make it the Tri-State area, and bring NJ and CT into the mix, then sure. 

Manhattan is small.  Absolutely.  NYC itself is half the size of Houston geographically.  And yes, NYC is more dense.  That's the point.  There is value in that density.  You don't get more value from a McMansion in Houston.

[justhookit 4,191]

[Continental Op 3,934]

I AM REALLY FUCKING MAD ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S THOUGHTS ON HOUSING PRICES IN HOUSTON AND NYC!!!!!!!! 

[formermav43 4,606]

There ought to be an automatic banning for overuse of terms like “McMansion.”

[Dahobbs 17,717]

1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

You could literally give me a house in somewhere like West U for free with the requirement that I live in it for a year.  I wouldn't take it.  I don't find it "better" than what I could get for the same price here, and I find the lifestyle exceedingly "worse" to the point of being dismal.  And West U has nice homes.  The rest of Houston, especially newer suburbs are a lot worse.   People move to Houston because its a place to move that isn't bumfuck Louisiana or Mississippi and it has jobs.  Others move there because a job forces them to.  Almost zero people move there because they like the lifestyle.  People move to Austin for the lifestyle.  A lot of people move to NYC specifically for the lifestyle. People looking for condos on this very thread included. They aren't wanting a McMansion, but buying a 2 bdrm apartment instead.  And even if they did, they realize that if everyone had McMansions, it would just be a lifeless suburb like Sugar Land.  Lifestyle is absolutely part of housing value and "what you get" for your money.  How about you quit discounting that fact?

Last post for me. This has been my point the whole fucking time. You sacrifice some things to live in a more expensive city like NYC because you like the lifestyle there. You're ultimately talking about subjective preference. You're not comparing "cheapness" you're comparing preference. It is more expensive to live in NYC, but you prefer it. Cool beans, frankly, I think I would too.  In fact, a lot of people do, which is why it is so goddamn expensive (supply/demand). 

But, let me give you an incredibly simple example: a bowl of noodles. You can buy that bowl of noodles in NYC for $15. Or, in Houston, you could buy that exact same bowl of noodles for $10. Which is cheaper? To follow your logic in this thread, I guess the answer would be the bowl of noodles in NYC because NYC has "..." (fill with whatever you love about NYC). Of course, that answer is asinine. You prefer to be in NYC and you prefer your noodles be in NYC, but, in the english language, the bowl of noodles in Houston is cheaper. 

Peace out crazy man. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Dahobbs

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

Last post for me. This has been my point the whole fucking time. You sacrifice some things to live in a more expensive city like NYC because you like the lifestyle there. You're ultimately talking about subjective preference. You're not comparing "cheapness" you're comparing preference. It is more expensive to live in NYC, but you prefer it. Cool beans, frankly, I think I would too. 

But, let me give you an incredibly simple example: a bowl of noodles. You can buy that bowl of noodles in NYC for $15. Or, in Houston, you could buy that exact same bowl of noodles for $10. Which is cheaper? To follow your logic in this thread, I guess the answer would be the bowl of noodles in NYC because NYC has "..." (fill with whatever you love about NYC). Of course, that answer is asinine. You prefer to be in NYC and you prefer your noodles be in NYC, but, in the english language, the bowl of noodles in Houston is cheaper. 

Peace out crazy man. 

Nevermind that you are comparing fixed real estate with food which is stupid in the first place. 

But I'll bite. I know that's your point.   You think housing is a fungible good like a cup of noodles or a gallon of gas. That's been clear.  While you are completely wrong on that (for noodles in general as well), we are really both talking about subjective preference. You value housing size without consideration for the surrounding area. I value the surrounding area more and even prefer smaller housing when given the option. 

So the point continues to be that you can't buy the same housing bowl of noodles in both places.  The noodles in each place are entirely different.  They are not interchangable noodles.  So I can have 2 bowls of crappy tasting noodles in Houston for the same price as 1 good tasting bowl in NYC.  Some people like you prefer crappy noodles and really wish that NYC would sell Houston style crappy noodles too, but they don't.  But way out in NJ, someone opened a Houston style crappy noodle stand so you can go out there and eat them for a nickel more than you paid for them in Houston. 

And yes, I sacrifice a driving commute, a community with no street life, and a front room nobody ever uses in order to live in NYC in a place that has everything I want from housing.  That's no sacrifice at all really. 

My question for you is why don't you go live on a farm in the middle of nowhere if you think the only thing you are purchasing with your housing money is the square footage of the house itself?

[Dahobbs 17,717]

3 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

My question for you is why don't you go live on a farm in the middle of nowhere if you think the only thing you are purchasing with your housing money is the square footage of the house itself?

??????? 

"It is more expensive to live in NYC, but you prefer it. Cool beans, frankly, I think I would too."

???????

[CHIEF 5,095]

I wonder what other published articles say?

https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/real-estate/T006-S001-most-expensive-u-s-cities-to-live-in-2019/index.html

Queens #9

Brooklyn #4

Manhatten #1

Houston-NR

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/cost-living-study-ranks-seattle-fifth-expensive-u-s-city-live/

Brooklyn #4

Manhatten #1

Houston-NR

https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/slideshows/most-expensive-places-to-live-in-the-us?slide=23 (Highest Cost of Living compared to median income)

New York City #4

Houston-NR

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/cost-of-living-san-francisco-new-york-boston-most-expensive-cities.html

New York City #2

Houston-NR

https://www.forbes.com/2009/10/07/most-expensive-cities-lifestyle-real-estate-america-top-ten.html#bb1c7695c32f This is an old article, but at least Houston bothered to show up.

New York City #1

Houston #9

 

I guess all these Hacks could be wrong, probably didn't do any research.

CHIEF

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

??????? 

"It is more expensive to live in NYC, but you prefer it. Cool beans, frankly, I think I would too."

???????

Yes. Housing is more expensive per the article. You're still treating real estate as a fungible good though. It isn't.  

Here, let's flip it and move it to make it easier to understand.

Which is more expensive?

A $500,000 2500 sf one story house in Des Moines, or a $500,000 3000 sf two story house in Ames?  4 people live in both. 

The answer is they are the same exact price. The price per square foot is not relevant in determining their value.  The actual sales price determines their value. The Des Moines purchaser isn't getting something "worse" than the Ames purchaser.  Clearly, he is getting value from something other than the square footage. Schools, nearby amenities, etc.   And he purchased that value with his housing spending money.  Nobody is sacrificing anything. Neither is more expensive or cheaper than the other.  

Now once you understand that, we can actually break down how and why NYC housing units per person are slightly more expensive than Houston. 

 

 

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

4 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

I wonder what other published articles say?

https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/real-estate/T006-S001-most-expensive-u-s-cities-to-live-in-2019/index.html

Queens #9

Brooklyn #4

Manhatten #1

Houston-NR

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/cost-living-study-ranks-seattle-fifth-expensive-u-s-city-live/

Brooklyn #4

Manhatten #1

Houston-NR

https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/slideshows/most-expensive-places-to-live-in-the-us?slide=23 (Highest Cost of Living compared to median income)

New York City #4

Houston-NR

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/cost-of-living-san-francisco-new-york-boston-most-expensive-cities.html

New York City #2

Houston-NR

https://www.forbes.com/2009/10/07/most-expensive-cities-lifestyle-real-estate-america-top-ten.html#bb1c7695c32f This is an old article, but at least Houston bothered to show up.

New York City #1

Houston #9

 

I guess all these Hacks could be wrong, probably didn't do any research.

CHIEF

Why do you hate Texan writers?

[CHIEF 5,095]

Just now, FondrenRoad said:

Why do you hate Texan writers?

Because if they are Texans, they do not live in New York. Are they the only one right, and everyone else is wrong? Don't hate Texan writers, just do not care to read articles written by Texans about a COL comparison from 1700 miles away. I say that as a 25 year Texas Monthly subscriber.

CHIEF

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

1 minute ago, CHIEF said:

Because if they are Texans, they do not live in New York. Are they the only one right, and everyone else is wrong? Don't hate Texan writers, just do not care to read articles written by Texans about a COL comparison from 1700 miles away. I say that as a 25 year Texas Monthly subscriber.

CHIEF

I did look at your first article. Not sure where it got it's numbers. The average rent in Queens isn't close to $3,050. It's $2,294.  I wish it was $3,050.  But they also didn't get the median income, median home value, or even the population correct. So I guess that article is as good as a ranking of party schools. 

[CHIEF 5,095]

Where did your numbers come from, let me guess, Texas Monthly?

CHIEF

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

I have plenty of restaurants and bars with a short walk of my house.  If you extend to a ten or fifteen minute walk I can’t count how many restaurants, bars and parks.  Takes me ten minutes to drive to work.  One hour to the ranch.  One hour and 15 minutes to the boat dock to saltwater fish indoor or outdoor.  

NYC is loud, congested and smells bad on trash day. There is no outdoor beauty like you would get in a high cost area like Seattle, San Fran or LA.  I can’t imagine trying to raise kids or have a dog in NYC.  

what is so great about living there?  Poetry readings and shit like that?

Unless you have 8 figures minimum, I think it would suck.  
 

[Stunns38 3,609]

None of the 3.  And don't get me wrong, I was surprised by the price too when I had started calling places. The only difficult thing about it are the spots are extremely limited. You have to get lucky and call at pretty much exactly the same time some other kid is stopping day care while 100 other parents are trying to do the same thing. 
All the ones in my neighborhood are Latino run, fwiw.  The one my daughter went to was great.  Nicer people than the corporate ones we checked which were much more expensive. 

Got you.
More darts...Corona or Jackson Heights?

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

3 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

The actual research from the “study” still came out living in NY was on average $70+ per month more expensive than Houston. And no, it’s not “irrelevant” to point out the flaws of the underlying methodology, that’s how someone evaluates the merits of the article’s conclusions. And the merits are worthless bc it ignores key factors that go into the true “cost of living”

 

Your tantrum tells me you’re so embarrassed by your own pseudo intellectual bullshit being exposed that you went with a personal attack here. Congrats on your power of persuasion. 

I've been calm. I have enjoyed the discussion with most here.

You have just been a shithead.  Every single post you have made has contained a personal attack. Only now are you trying to come up with any real discussion because you got your feelings hurt when someone attacked you back. 

Still though, personal attacks aside. You aren't adding real or new value.  The responses to your latest post are already present in this thread. Even the $79 difference has been brought up. Perhaps now, you'll go back and read about the fact that NYC's higher income is factored into the article's conclusion.

I don't really have a dog in the hunt. I'm just backing the article. It makes sense on those two costs.  And I find it funny that y'all have a desperate need for Houston to be cheaper. Wonder why that is?  I like where I live whether it's more expensive or not.  Do you not?  I also find it funny when people move to Manhattan and think everywhere around is Manhattan priced.  

[Spankytoes 1,743]

21 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

NYC is loud, congested and smells bad on trash day. There is no outdoor beauty like you would get in a high cost area like Seattle, San Fran or LA.  I can’t imagine trying to raise kids or have a dog in NYC.  

You mean other than Central Park, which covers roughly 1/2 the island? 

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

31 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

Where did your numbers come from, let me guess, Texas Monthly?

CHIEF

Nope. A variety of places publish those numbers. I was looking at Zillow. Another thing you can do on Zillow, btw, is look for apartments for rent. 3000 is a laughable average rent for Queens. The rent is still high here but it's nowhere close to that. 

[formermav43 4,606]

“I don’t really have a dog in the hunt” claims man with more than a quarter of the posts on a 200+ reply thread.

[Iceman 2,728]

2 hours ago, formermav43 said:

There ought to be an automatic banning for overuse of terms like “McMansion.”

Why do you hate the elitists?

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

28 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I have plenty of restaurants and bars with a short walk of my house.  If you extend to a ten or fifteen minute walk I can’t count how many restaurants, bars and parks.  Takes me ten minutes to drive to work.  One hour to the ranch.  One hour and 15 minutes to the boat dock to saltwater fish indoor or outdoor.  

NYC is loud, congested and smells bad on trash day. There is no outdoor beauty like you would get in a high cost area like Seattle, San Fran or LA.  I can’t imagine trying to raise kids or have a dog in NYC.  

what is so great about living there?  Poetry readings and shit like that?

Unless you have 8 figures minimum, I think it would suck.  
 

FWIW, I agree about Manhattan. The parks and the museums are nice, but traffic and tourists can make it pretty chaotic. These days I prefer Brooklyn for nightlife. Especially in the summer. Sidewalk cafes in Manhattan are practically unenjoyable with horrendous traffic and 18 wheelers idling all the time. 

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

7 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

“I don’t really have a dog in the hunt” claims man with more than a quarter of the posts on a 200+ reply thread.

I never said I wasn't a binge poster. People reply to me, I reply back. Sometimes 2 or 3 times. I just happen to have 5 or 6 people replying to me on this thread so it adds up. 

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

29 minutes ago, Stunns38 said:

 

Got you.
More darts...Corona or Jackson Heights?

 

Nope and nope. 

[Iceman 2,728]

50 minutes ago, Stunns38 said:

 

Got you.
More darts...Corona or Jackson Heights?

 

Isn’t Corona under siege?

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

45 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

You mean other than Central Park, which covers roughly 1/2 the island? 

It’s fine.  Nothing special.  It isn’t like those other cities with respect to national beauty and outdoor activities.  
 

 

[ChickenSandwich 9,856]

56 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Nope. A variety of places publish those numbers. I was looking at Zillow. Another thing you can do on Zillow, btw, is look for apartments for rent. 3000 is a laughable average rent for Queens. The rent is still high here but it's nowhere close to that. 

Part of your problem is assuming Zillow is accurate. A quick MLS comparison in Austin will show this, maybe they are waaaayyyyyy better in NY than Texas???

Dont get me wrong, some of the information is accurate but not to a high degree. (In my experience)

 

another advantage Texas homeowners enjoy is the ability to build, demolish and remodel (adding square footage). Single family home advantage. 
 

Love your hood but hate your house?  Tear down the wall(house). Can’t do that in the Co-Op or brownstone. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Part of your problem is assuming Zillow is accurate. A quick MLS comparison in Austin will show this, maybe they are waaaayyyyyy better in NY than Texas???

Dont get me wrong, some of the information is accurate but not to a high degree. (In my experience)

Look, the average rent in Queens is not 3000. Nowhere has it listed that high either except kiplinger. You even have to go out of your way to find more than 1 or 2 apartments currently for rent over 3000 amongst a sea of rentals from 1500 to 2800.  Only LIC has consistent prices that high and higher and it's one small neighborhood.  Buildings there are also currently offering concessions that make even the real average seem slightly higher than it truly is. 

The average rent in Queens Nova Scotia is apparently about 3000 Canadian though. Maybe that's where they got the incorrect number. 

[Stunns38 3,609]

Nope and nope. 

Iast guess....Ridgewood...though it may be getting too hip for you now with the Bushwick spillover.

Or

Maspeth , lol. Have co-workers that have lived there for 40 years.

There is a chili’s in middle village though.

PS, LIC is rather large and parts of it are misconstrued as Astoria.

[next2naus 439]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I have plenty of restaurants and bars with a short walk of my house.  If you extend to a ten or fifteen minute walk I can’t count how many restaurants, bars and parks.  Takes me ten minutes to drive to work.  One hour to the ranch.  One hour and 15 minutes to the boat dock to saltwater fish indoor or outdoor.  

NYC is loud, congested and smells bad on trash day. There is no outdoor beauty like you would get in a high cost area like Seattle, San Fran or LA.  I can’t imagine trying to raise kids or have a dog in NYC.  

what is so great about living there?  Poetry readings and shit like that?

Unless you have 8 figures minimum, I think it would suck.  
 

I've read some dumb shit you have posted before but this takes the cake. You know nothing of living in NYC, only visits for work and play.

Loud: everything is relative and many, many places within the confines of NYC are rather quite and tranquil. There are parks here you know. 

There is no outdoor beauty: ok, have you been to Ft. Tilden? any of the many beaches? the Cloisters, Hudson River Park, the harbor? Rockaway?

Kids: what makes droving them around in a car so awesome, better yet...why would raising them in NYC be not as good?

Dogs: Dog runs and parks are everywhere and many folks believe that the smaller apartments/living spaces are better for canine anxiety. 

Poetry readings and shit like that?: culture, and shit like that

An 8 figure salary: means that someone earns between $10,000,000 and 1 billion ($1,000,000,000)

 

I live and hour out of Manhattan now, because I wanted the space ( I live on a wooded acre), I wanted to not pay to park my two daily drivers and my Bronco, be closer to hunting and fishing, at least have easier access and less gun restrictions. The public school district is ranked 23 of 950 in State  and 788th in the nation. and I don't want to pay private tuition ( and I believe in Public Schools). takes me six minutes to the LIRR and then 50min to Penn. I work from home, its joyous. One hour to East Hampton. I might make 7 figures this year but high sixes is more likely. 

 

I lived in Texas for half my life, there is no comparing the two places, I wish people would stop. 

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

54 minutes ago, next2naus said:

I've read some dumb shit you have posted before but this takes the cake. You know nothing of living in NYC, only visits for work and play.

Loud: everything is relative and many, many places within the confines of NYC are rather quite and tranquil. There are parks here you know. 

There is no outdoor beauty: ok, have you been to Ft. Tilden? any of the many beaches? the Cloisters, Hudson River Park, the harbor? Rockaway?

Kids: what makes droving them around in a car so awesome, better yet...why would raising them in NYC be not as good?

Dogs: Dog runs and parks are everywhere and many folks believe that the smaller apartments/living spaces are better for canine anxiety. 

Poetry readings and shit like that?: culture, and shit like that

An 8 figure salary: means that someone earns between $10,000,000 and 1 billion ($1,000,000,000)

 

I live and hour out of Manhattan now, because I wanted the space ( I live on a wooded acre), I wanted to not pay to park my two daily drivers and my Bronco, be closer to hunting and fishing, at least have easier access and less gun restrictions. The public school district is ranked 23 of 950 in State  and 788th in the nation. and I don't want to pay private tuition ( and I believe in Public Schools). takes me six minutes to the LIRR and then 50min to Penn. I work from home, its joyous. One hour to East Hampton. I might make 7 figures this year but high sixes is more likely. 

 

I lived in Texas for half my life, there is no comparing the two places, I wish people would stop. 

Sounds like you’re set with your hour from Manhattan life. 

We live a mile from school.  My kids spend no time in the car.  My wife and I both work 4 miles from home.  

Before you comment on my intelligence, a couple things with your response   

I said “have” 8 figures, not make a salary of 8 figures.  And 8 figures ranges from $10,000,000 to $99,999,999.99.   So learn to count dumbfuck.  

[Nivek 17,011]

Some of you are seriously fucked in the head.

[Iceman 2,728]

11 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Some of you are seriously fucked in the head.

we knew that going in.

[Hank Scorpio 17,731]

I live in Houston and want everyone to know I am rich. Is this the thread where I post that information? 

[Iceman 2,728]

Just now, Hank Scorpio said:

I live in Houston and want everyone to know I am rich. Is this the thread where I post that information? 

River Oaks or the 5th Ward?

[Bevo 13,608]

18 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Some of you are seriously fucked in the head.

Pets is something else, jack. I got pets, I love my little pets. I got monkeys and shit. My monkeys died, though. Yeah. I had two squirrel monkeys. You ever seen them squirrel monkeys? They got them hands, they freak a dog out. They do. They get on a dog and them fingers touch a dog, the dog go [barking]. I had one named friend. I named him friend cause the first time I opened the cage, he ran up my arm and stuck his dick right in my ear. He did [monkey sound effect]. Yeah, it felt like a wet Q-tip [monkey sound effects]. He pissed all on my cheek. I had to throw him up at the ceiling [monkey sound effects]. He’d do that to anyone. I’d invite over people, you know, just to fuck with them, you know. I’d say, go on, open the cage up, you know. Up they arm, [monkey sound effects]. I remember one time this guy from Warner Brothers was coming over, he was gonna do a film with me. And he came over and he opened the cage and I said, don’t open the cage! The monkey [monkey sound effects]. Well, you won’t be doing any films at Warner Brothers, that’s for goddamn sure. Want to get this monkey’s dick out of my ear, Rich. Jesus Christ. Come on, dear, We’ll put something over my head there. We’ll just say it’s a hump, let’s go. So I got him a woman, you know, cause he was fucked up… I got him a woman, called her “sister,” right. He did the same to her, run right in the cage [monkey sound effects]. And she said, freeze. First thing, I gotta show you where the pussy is. And he got him some monkey pussy and freaked. He just went out of his mind, man. Man, at night he’d be up and unlocking the cage and shit. And then they’d run away and stay two and three days, right. And you could hear him in the tree [monkey sound effects], sometimes far away [distant monkey sound effects]. Sometimes up front [monkey sound effects]. Finally about the third day he came in and he was fucked up, right, [monkey sound effects… winding down] And I left him with some friends, I had to go out of town, I left him with some friends to watch him. And he had like a little gas heater on the floor, and they turned it on, and they didn’t have no matches, and they died. It killed them. I was hurt, too, man. I was, cause I came home and found my monkeys was dead. I said shit. Cause I loved my monkeys so much. I was in the back yard, I was crying. And there was a dog that used to live next door to us, a German Shepherd, right, big, ugly, mean German Shepherd. He would bite anything. And he jumped the fence and came over there, and I felt something moving my hand like that and it was him, I was gonna pet him. He looked at me and he said, what’s the matter, Rich. I said, my monkeys died. He said, what? Your monkeys died? Ain’t that a bitch. You mean the two monkeys used to be in the trees, they died? I said, yeah, they died. He said, shit. I was gonna eat them, too. He said, don’t linger on that shit too long, you know, it fuck with you. I said, I’ll try. Yeah, you take care. Then he went back and jumped over the fence. And just before he jumped, he looked back at me, he said, now, you know I’m gonna be chasing you again tomorrow. Yeah.

 

[ChickenSandwich 9,856]

JCI beats the dog shit out of Gray’s Papayas. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8,350]

Everything about that article and the study from which it came is pretty dumb. Yes, you can save money on transportation by living in a city where cars are not necessary. If you really wanted to maximize on savings vs Houston, you could move to Philadelphia, where housing costs less. I really don't see too much difference between Philly and the outer Boroughs.

Conversely, Houston's housing prices are cheaper, thus facilitating your ability to own and maintain a car.

Not addressed in the article, but discussed ad nauseam in this thread: within huge cities like New York and Houston are a multitude of housing cost strata, against which you should balance both your desired lifestyle and your transportation budget. 

Also not addressed in the article, and only once mentioned here in this thread: the non-necessity of a car payment, or even a car, period, in Houston. Yes that is harder to pull off in Houston, even in what passes for dense here, but it is very doable, especially if you don't have kids. I don't think the option exists for as much wiggle room in the budget for NY -- meaning you almost certainly are not going to find some unicorn of an apartment deal at $600-$1000 under what you have budgeted. 

 

[TwiceHorn 31,646]

8 hours ago, formermav43 said:

There ought to be an automatic banning for overuse of terms like “McMansion.”

I prefer faux chateaux.  

[52-80 19,274]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I prefer faux chateaux.  

Palazzo Falso

[Bevo 13,608]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Palazzo Falso

Vanilla Villa

[Spankytoes 1,743]

8 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

JCI beats the dog shit out of Gray’s Papayas. 

Five Guys beats the shit out of BK too. Only tourists and the poors go to Gray’s. Now Crif Dogs, on the other hand, would put JCI at the kid’s table.