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Chet Holmgren- Basketball's Next Unicorn?

Goo Punch

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Braff Zacklin

Braff Zacklin 13552

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6 hours ago, shadow_operative said:
check out the dirk one-leg fadeaway there. Chet is going to be a very good NBA player. 

Despite my initial joke in this thread a couple of years ago, I am inclined to agree.  Doubters need only look to KD to realize that highly skilled 7-foot anorexics can thrive in today's NBA.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49141

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Alotta talk for a Summer League game.  Put me in the doubter camp for Holmgren as a big time star in the NBA but what do I know right?? 😋

Lots of folks on this thread who know more about NBA basketball seem really intrigued, so will be fun to watch this play out.  

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3245

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skilled no doubt.  very interested to see how he handles the defensive end on bigger guys night after night.  can he stay out of foul trouble?  is the physicality on defense going to take away from his offense?  he seems like a high IQ player so watching him adjust will be telling of what's to come.

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TexasHooch

TexasHooch 5122

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It's all he's ever heard too, all through AAU and High School when he was even skinnier. It's been the case at every level and he's compensated for it at every level.  He's got a huge chip on his shoulder about it, from what I hear from people who know him pretty well.  

I personally think the body weight and strength thing is a little lazy and overblown, but it's not unfair.  

I'm still a little bummed that he won't be with his high school buddy Jalen in Orlando, but OKC will be a good place to begin his career.  

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ztejas

ztejas 43411

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Anyone can put up a bunch of points in summer league - but doing it the way Chet did and also having some nice dishes and then 6 blocks on the other end is impressive. I think it's a good reminder that his game is a better fit in the NBA and also he wasn't the focal point of that Gonzaga team. 

 

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ChiTownDoc

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NBA superstars are going the way of NFL QB’s…unless they hurt themselves, you’re not gonna see them out for injuries - at least injuries like in the past where you just constantly bashed a star into submission (or tried)…see Jordan rules.  

I don’t hate on LeBron at all but it’s insane that even at his size you can barely get physical with him.  Makes the job at hand nearly impossible…

So Chet can land on a guy and turn an ankle but he’s better off doing that with his frame vs Oden type size and acromegaly issues.  

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18547

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26 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

NBA superstars are going the way of NFL QB’s…unless they hurt themselves, you’re not gonna see them out for injuries - at least injuries like in the past where you just constantly bashed a star into submission (or tried)…see Jordan rules.  

I don’t hate on LeBron at all but it’s insane that even at his size you can barely get physical with him.  Makes the job at hand nearly impossible…

So Chet can land on a guy and turn an ankle but he’s better off doing that with his frame vs Oden type size and acromegaly issues.  

Are you serious? Do you want me to list the NBA stars that were injured and/or missed the playoffs over the last couple of seasons? Maybe it has been exaggerated by the schedule being screwed up for Covid... but the injuries seem worse now than ever.  I would argue that NBA injuries are less a result of the physical pounding from other players and more the result of repetitive stress from running, jumping and lateral movement. The increase in the pace of the game has guys moving more than ever and I think it's resulting in more injuries -- knees, ankles, Achilles, etc. But hey, you're the doctor not me.

With regard to Holmgren.... I think he's going to be really good just for the fact that at his height, he can always get a shot off and he's always going to be a good weak side shot blocker. He's got two basic skills that should always translate. And he's unselfish and a good passer, high IQ, guy. But if he's going to be a truly great player, he's going to have to get much stronger. He won't be able to take anybody off the dribble if they can push him off his spot. Even in the game last night, against much physically weaker and less athletic guys than he will face nightly in the league. he started settling for threes. I don't think the question on him is about his durability as much as it is on his ability to add muscle to that frame.

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3245

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9 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

 I would argue that NBA injuries are less a result of the physical pounding from other players and more the result of repetitive stress from running, jumping and lateral movement.

you two are saying the same thing.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21139

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38 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Are you serious? Do you want me to list the NBA stars that were injured and/or missed the playoffs over the last couple of seasons? Maybe it has been exaggerated by the schedule being screwed up for Covid... but the injuries seem worse now than ever.  I would argue that NBA injuries are less a result of the physical pounding from other players and more the result of repetitive stress from running, jumping and lateral movement. The increase in the pace of the game has guys moving more than ever and I think it's resulting in more injuries -- knees, ankles, Achilles, etc. But hey, you're the doctor not me.

With regard to Holmgren.... I think he's going to be really good just for the fact that at his height, he can always get a shot off and he's always going to be a good weak side shot blocker. He's got two basic skills that should always translate. And he's unselfish and a good passer, high IQ, guy. But if he's going to be a truly great player, he's going to have to get much stronger. He won't be able to take anybody off the dribble if they can push him off his spot. Even in the game last night, against much physically weaker and less athletic guys than he will face nightly in the league. he started settling for threes. I don't think the question on him is about his durability as much as it is on his ability to add muscle to that frame.

Wait - I'm talking about the type of injuries.  I'm saying his body type with a lot of mass would lead to more injuries.  His wiry frame itself is nothing to worry about, in my professional opinion. 

Shit - see above with gsoda.  You're saying exact same shit I'm saying. 

 

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Braff Zacklin

Braff Zacklin 13552

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7 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Wait - I'm talking about the type of injuries.  I'm saying his body type with a lot of mass would lead to more injuries.  His wiry frame itself is nothing to worry about, in my professional opinion. 

Shit - see above with gsoda.  You're saying exact same shit I'm saying. 

Yes. In other words, Chet Holmgren's prospects for a lengthy NBA career are vastly superior to, say, Zion Williamson.

While Chet is relatively frail, his lighter frame should handle the wear and tear of running and jumping on a hard surface for a living. Zion, on the other hand, is already showing signs of breaking down despite his tremendous athleticism on account of his also-tremendous bulk.

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Mitch Cumsteen

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15 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Wait - I'm talking about the type of injuries.  I'm saying his body type with a lot of mass would lead to more injuries.  His wiry frame itself is nothing to worry about, in my professional opinion. 

Shit - see above with gsoda.  You're saying exact same shit I'm saying. 

 

Gotcha. I clearly can't read.

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14581

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I remember one scouting report I read that said he was kind of held back at Gonzaga because Timme could only play inside.  (Who knows?)  Certainly kind of looked like that when he had free reign in his one summer league game.  What I didn't know about him until the draft process is he has a chip on his shoulder about the weight thing.  He has an attitude, which I like.  

Props to his Dirk move, BTW.  That's an unblockable shot for him.  That'll be the risk to guarding him with a 6'8" wing.  He'll just shoot over them without any problem.

Certainly an interesting player.  Will be fun to watch.

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Tylerocks

Tylerocks 2553

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20 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Yes. In other words, Chet Holmgren's prospects for a lengthy NBA career are vastly superior to, say, Zion Williamson.

While Chet is relatively frail, his lighter frame should handle the wear and tear of running and jumping on a hard surface for a living. Zion, on the other hand, is already showing signs of breaking down despite his tremendous athleticism on account of his also-tremendous bulk.

There is a great article in SI last month that discusses this stuff(injuries, size/weight, movement) and touches on his "unicorn-ness"

Pretty fascinating stuff..

 

https://www.si.com/nba/2022/06/20/chet-holmgren-the-future-of-basketball-daily-cover.

 

Remember when everyone lost their shit that KD couldn't bench 135?  Lulz

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ztejas

ztejas 43411

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10 hours ago, Tylerocks said:

There is a great article in SI last month that discusses this stuff(injuries, size/weight, movement) and touches on his "unicorn-ness"

Pretty fascinating stuff..

 

https://www.si.com/nba/2022/06/20/chet-holmgren-the-future-of-basketball-daily-cover.

 

Remember when everyone lost their shit that KD couldn't bench 135?  Lulz

185 but yes.

And KD is a perfect comp for this discussion. Trae Young is a good one too. (although Trae doesn't play defense worth a shit and Chet will still be a plus defender from day one). 

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6677

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On 7/6/2022 at 10:15 PM, shadow_operative said:

lol, kenneth lofton jr is his worst nightmare. no question he will have to become much stronger if he doesn't want to be pushed around like that all night every night.

I'm not sure he has the genes for it. I doubt he'll ever be able to bang down low at the NBA level.

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

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Is "banging down low" even a necessary requirement for NBA bigs anymore? Not only has the need for defending post ups diminished significantly over the last decade,  but most teams concede defensive rebounds as well. Most offensive rebounds they do get in today's NBA are of the long rebound variety where half the time they rebound it as they're running back on defense. 

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shadow_operative

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he just backed down jabari smith and then finished with a beautiful left handed tear drop. he's going to be just like trae young- tons of people have said he's too small/too thin, not realizing how different the NBA game is and how the spacing and speed of the game will be huge benefits for these guys. he's not going to be battling charles oakley and anthony mason in the low block, he's going to be scoring and contributing in a variety of ways in the wide open, up and down game of the NBA. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43411

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Yeah I had a post recently about KD and Trae having similar concerns and both of them obviously being great. Chet is so, so good on D despite being a twig. He also has that habit to him of simply being out there to make winning plays and make his teammates better. He doesn't demand the ball or ever take plays off effort-wise. 

My dad and I are texting right now about him reminding us of Duncan the way he is somehow always in position to get in the way of the ball or contest a shot - even when he's been beat or made a mistake. 

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3245

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he just backed down jabari smith and then finished with a beautiful left handed tear drop. he's going to be just like trae young- tons of people have said he's too small/too thin, not realizing how different the NBA game is and how the spacing and speed of the game will be huge benefits for these guys. he's not going to be battling charles oakley and anthony mason in the low block, he's going to be scoring and contributing in a variety of ways in the wide open, up and down game of the NBA. 
The possession before that was impressive also. He made a ridiculous move to get to the rim but didn't finish.
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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7766

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On 7/6/2022 at 11:26 AM, ChiTownDoc said:

NBA superstars are going the way of NFL QB’s…unless they hurt themselves, you’re not gonna see them out for injuries - at least injuries like in the past where you just constantly bashed a star into submission (or tried)…see Jordan rules.  

I don’t hate on LeBron at all but it’s insane that even at his size you can barely get physical with him.  Makes the job at hand nearly impossible…

So Chet can land on a guy and turn an ankle but he’s better off doing that with his frame vs Oden type size and acromegaly issues.  

Jokic regularly gets the shit beat out of him.  He just plays through it even though he should go to the line a lot more than he does.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21139

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1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

Jokic regularly gets the shit beat out of him.  He just plays through it even though he should go to the line a lot more than he does.

I'd agree - I'm just comparing today's game vs what we saw in the 80's and early 90's.  Nobody would say the NFL is soft but it's just not the same thing as the 80's when Ronnie Lott was going to concuss you every chance he got.  Much smaller, shifty recievers can make some sort of a living in the middle these days.  Chet would be dead meat back in the good ol days...

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21139

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15 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

imagine Chet vs NYK with Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley. 😂 Chet vs the '96 Bulls with Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and Harper all available to guard him when he's on the ball. or how about Rick Mahorn and Bill Laimbeer. 

Mason and Oakley were some scary motherfuckers.  On the court or anywhere.  Fuck running into those goons.  

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14581

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16 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

imagine Chet vs NYK with Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley. 😂 Chet vs the '96 Bulls with Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and Harper all available to guard him when he's on the ball. or how about Rick Mahorn and Bill Laimbeer. 

Mason, Oakley, and Mahorn wouldn’t even make a roster now.  Laimbeer maybe because he could kind of shoot.

Different eras and different games.  The stars could play in either ere but the role players can’t.

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