Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[UTHornFan014 710]

Gin and white claw.

What flavor white claw is most effective?

[ChiTownDoc 21151]

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

Jesus fuck, how haven't you jumped yet. That's way too many kids to travel with

This too...

[Hmmm 155]

11 minutes ago, UTHornFan014 said:

1 hour ago, Deej said:

I've been taking all the herbal supplements listed up thread and feel better than I have in years. So, I'm probably gonna die soon.

What are supplements listed earlier in the thread? Too many pages to sift through

 

11 minutes ago, UTHornFan014 said:

1 hour ago, Deej said:

I've been taking all the herbal supplements listed up thread and feel better than I have in years. So, I'm probably gonna die soon.

What are supplements listed earlier in the thread? Too many pages to sift through

perhaps you're looking for a memory loss supplement?

[Beau Vine 54211]

1 minute ago, UTHornFan014 said:

5 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Gin and white claw.

What flavor white claw is most effective?

Get a variety pack and diversify the herbal healing.

[F250 28767]

This dude brings up an interesting point about our most obese cities.

 

 

 

[RayDog 682]

1 hour ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

That's no shit. Did he provide pictures yet? I swear I've read this whole thread and didn't see any. 

OK, I know the rules. First is the 27 year old college student 5'2" 35 Kg. She wants to teach math.

Here are my 4 most serious girlfriends of the past two years, and I am still friends with them. I lived with the first one for almost six months last year.

[closetojumping 62604]

3 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Always wondered why you were so salty.  Was gonna recommend getting laid.  Maybe an IUD would be better...

Enjoy LA. 

Oh, I’ve got a 5th. She’s planning her wedding right now for Labor Day. Sending me invoices daily. 

The whole swirl of them and the female I’m with aren’t the problem. It’s all of you nervewracking sonsabitches that send me to the edge. Oh, and also, apocalypses that could destroy the business world as we know it if some of the really horrific shit is actually proven out.

 

[Errestaurants 2570]

2 minutes ago, RayDog said:

OK, I know the rules. First is the 27 year old college student 5'2" 35 Kg. She wants to teach math.

Here are my 4 most serious girlfriends of the past two years, and I am still friends with them. I lived with the first one for almost six months last year.

A Surly Icon. Keep on living life sir.

[The Dog 44020]

If you aren't symptomatic then even if you are infected the you cannot spread it. You can only infect others if symptomatic. 

[The Ace of Aces 5181]

35 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

I told my Philly clients I was going to bail on the conference and they gave me the Philly attitude of Don’t be a pussy, your not going to die and get on the fucking plane next week.  

Eat at Zahav and DiNici’s and quit yer bitching!

[Bullneck 19078]

15 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

[staboner 4969]

nice rudeness. bout time this thread got going. 

[ChiTownDoc 21151]

1 minute ago, closetojumping said:

Oh, I’ve got a 5th. She’s planning her wedding right now for Labor Day. Sending me invoices daily. 

The whole swirl of them and the female I’m with aren’t the problem. It’s all of you nervewracking sonsabitches that send me to the edge. Oh, and also, apocalypses that could destroy the business world as we know it if some of the really horrific shit is actually proven out.

 

Fair enough but if I had 4 kids and a wife, plus the 5th one getting god damn married, I'd wake up every miserable day praying for the apocalypse. 

Jokes aside, I hope that shit doesn't happen but at this point it feels like even if this one doesn't get us, another one down the line will.  Scary shit, indeed. 

[closetojumping 62604]

Just now, The Dog said:

If you aren't symptomatic then even if you are infected the you cannot spread it. You can only infect others if symptomatic. 

I read the same from a BBC story today about a study completed recently. I avoided posting the link here for fear of being crowdsourced because it seemed surprisingly hopeful. It was nice knowing you, The Dog. 

[CooterBrown 18006]

So over at King County WA Life Care, covid19 has killed 19 of 120 patients. That's already 16%. And I read the other day that they had 11 deaths before the first diagnosis, and usually they'd have 5 or 6.
16%. Not Great. Not Terrible. 

So the same odds as Russian Roulette.

[gmr548 16576]

 

21 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Roughly 40% of Italy’s population is 50 or older. They also smoke like fucking chimneys and drink like sailors. The skew on age makes sense, given everything else we know about the bug. CIA Factbook and WHO can confirm these things.

Disclaimer to the doomsdayers: I am not saying that anything is Italy specific and the virus can’t kill us all. Just pointing out some potential drivers for the spread there. 

Do we know it spreads easier to olds? That's more what I was getting at - the number of cases in the elderly is compounding the problem. I hadn't heard that but if that's the case it'd be bad news.

Obviously their outcomes are worse, but with only 22 percent of infections in the 19-50 age cohort, it looks like a clear majority of infections are in the 50+ group, which would be disproportionate. Of course, that could be due to asymptomatic/mild cases in younger people going undocumented.

15 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

You've said this, and I'm not trying to come at you because I think you brought up some valid points in your prior posts about the smoking thing. However, they and Iran are roughly average for cigarette smoking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita

Maybe the old people smoke more (as with most countries). I don't know, haven't made it to Italy yet.

But all said, if we see similar mortality rates here within those advanced age groups, it's going to create an enormous burden on our healthcare system that's likely to break it, at least in a lot of places. So I mean even if you and I are safe, these mortality rates for older people are going to make this unlike anything we've ever seen, both in pure body count and in what it does to our infrastructure.

Yeah, this is true. A good third of the US population is over 50, so the American population is proportionally a little younger than Italy, but only because the boomers here created a boom with the millennials - Italians of that age had fewer kids. There are still a fuckload of 50+ here, a lot of them with pre-existing conditions.

5 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I’m spitballing. I thought I’ve read repeatedly that smoking exacerbated the risk, but tell me if that’s not true. I’ve never been to the far east, although I’d love to go. I have been to Europe, Central America, the Caribbean, and Canada many times. I’m going off of anecdotal thinking from what I’ve seen. Hell, I thought people in England smoked like chimneys from having been there so much. So I looked all of it up on the WHO end today to check my thinking. I make a habit of mocking analysis by anecdote, here and in real life, so I wanted to see. (Turns out England is a low smoking  country, like the US) 

In Iran, males smoke at a higher rate than normal. This is actually true across much of the Islamic realm. Women smoke at a disproportionately lower rate and the average balances out to look normal. Italy, what I saw, was like 27%. That’s just flat out high. 

I didn’t look for anything stratified by age, but my hunch is that more old people smoke, sure. 

I think the bigger thing with Italy, if there’s any substance to any of this, is the face to face greeting. I’ve been there and witnessed it as the social norm. It’s odd how little that’s being discussed. I don’t watch political or news channels, so maybe it is and it’s just not something I’ve seen. 

I'd think it stands to reason that smoking increases risk for bad outcomes for a respiratory disease, but obviously I'm no doctor. At the very least, it does increase risk for heart disease, which is linked with significantly worse outcomes with this virus. Overall, it definitely can't help. The point on face to face greeting makes sense - I hadn't even thought about it.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6559]

1 minute ago, The Ace of Aces said:

Eat at Zahav and DiNici’s and quit yer bitching!

I lived there for 2 years.  Can't get into Zahav from what I understand and been to Dinics many times.  Roast pork and broccoli rabe is pretty tasty.  Unfortunately I will be up near King of Prussia so nothing good up there but chains.

[The Dog 44020]

1 minute ago, closetojumping said:

I read the same from a BBC story today about a study completed recently. I avoided posting the link here for fear of being crowdsourced because it seemed surprisingly hopeful. It was nice knowing you, The Dog. 

Adios amigo.

It's also in the Ars Technica link posted above. 

[gmr548 16576]

4 minutes ago, The Dog said:

If you aren't symptomatic then even if you are infected the you cannot spread it. You can only infect others if symptomatic. 

It's been pretty widely reported to the contrary. Mind sharing a source?

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

If you aren't symptomatic then even if you are infected the you cannot spread it. You can only infect others if symptomatic. 

I’d love to see the source because I’ve heard numerous reports of people spreading the virus before becoming symptomatic. That was what initially triggered fears among people inclined to examine this new plague back in January when it was still primarily a Chinese problem.

[DDD Dad 14332]

If you aren't symptomatic then even if you are infected the you cannot spread it. You can only infect others if symptomatic. 

[The Dog 44020]

1 minute ago, gmr548 said:

It's been pretty widely reported to the contrary. Mind sharing a source?

Certainly. Here's the quote:

"While media reports have widely circulated fears that asymptomatic people are silently spreading COVID-19 around communities and countries, there is little data to back that up. In fact, asymptomatic cases appear rare and potentially misclassified."

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/dont-panic-the-comprehensive-ars-technica-guide-to-the-coronavirus/

I'll work on finding the BBC link as well that CTJ referenced.

[UTGrad98 2271]

31 minutes ago, UTHornFan014 said:

2 hours ago, Deej said:

I've been taking all the herbal supplements listed up thread and feel better than I have in years. So, I'm probably gonna die soon.

What are supplements listed earlier in the thread? Too many pages to sift through

1. Broccoli Brussels sprouts and mustard seeds 

2. Zinc losenges without citrate/citric acid.

3. Sambucol vitamin c etc. immune boosters.

4. Multi vitamins

 

basically nothing will treat the virus but there are ways to maximize your immune system, health etc to be ready when it hits. Also the zinc and broccoli may help to reduce severity and length of cold sickness  but there have been as many negative as positive studies on that. That said . I’m doing all of the above because.... it can’t hurt and sometimes the placebo effect is real...if you believe it helps then there’s a chance it will.

Edited March 10, 2020 by UTGrad98

[ChiTownDoc 21151]

2 hours ago, kevwun said:

The only cruise I've ever been on was a Norwegian Alaskan cruise and we enjoyed.  It is worth is for the scenery alone.

I thought it was all Vic specials on cruises.  

[closetojumping 62604]

Just now, The Dog said:

Certainly. Here's the quote:

"While media reports have widely circulated fears that asymptomatic people are silently spreading COVID-19 around communities and countries, there is little data to back that up. In fact, asymptomatic cases appear rare and potentially misclassified."

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/dont-panic-the-comprehensive-ars-technica-guide-to-the-coronavirus/

I'll work on finding the BBC link as well that CTJ referenced.

What the fuck have you done, The Dog? Greenspoint has been sheltering in place for over a month now. And then here you come with this kind of shit? Who the fuck do you think you are, sir?

No, seriously, it’s the same article. I read it from an apple newsfeed as distributed by the BBC. That quote is exactly what I read. 

[The Dog 44020]

Here's also the quote from the CDC:

"

Q: When is someone infectious?

A: The onset and duration of viral shedding and period of infectiousness for COVID-19 are not yet known. It is possible that SARS-CoV-2 RNA may be detectable in the upper or lower respiratory tract for weeks after illness onset, similar to infection with MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV. However, detection of viral RNA does not necessarily mean that infectious virus is present. Asymptomatic infection with SARS-CoV-2 has been reported, but it is not yet known what role asymptomatic infection plays in transmission. Similarly, the role of pre-symptomatic transmission (infection detection during the incubation period prior to illness onset) is unknown. Existing literature regarding SARS-CoV-2 and other coronaviruses (e.g. MERS-CoV, SARS-CoV) suggest that the incubation period may range from 2–14 days."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html

I did see a quote from the Harvard Med School saying that it could be transmitted while asymptomatic, but it was "inconclusive". 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/as-coronavirus-spreads-many-questions-and-some-answers-2020022719004

Keep in mind the Harvard blog is from last month, and we know more now than we did then. 

[The Dog 44020]

Just now, closetojumping said:

What the fuck have you done, The Dog? Greenspoint has been sheltering in place for over a month now. And then here you come with this kind of shit? Who the fuck do you think you are, sir?

No, seriously, it’s the same article. I read it from an apple newsfeed as distributed by the BBC. That quote is exactly what I read. 

I have him on ignore so there's nothing for me to see here.

[ChiTownDoc 21151]

2 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Certainly. Here's the quote:

"While media reports have widely circulated fears that asymptomatic people are silently spreading COVID-19 around communities and countries, there is little data to back that up. In fact, asymptomatic cases appear rare and potentially misclassified."

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/dont-panic-the-comprehensive-ars-technica-guide-to-the-coronavirus/

I'll work on finding the BBC link as well that CTJ referenced.

How many people are completely asymptomatic at any point in time?  Being in the airport, I swear at least 40% of people have the sniffles at the very fucking least.  I probably typically notice this more than other people (until recently) but just traveling in general between allergies, getting a cold, getting over a cold, smokers with chronic cough, former smokers with chronic cough, the guy clearing his throat constantly while getting over a hangover (guilty)...

I would agree that if you feel a little sick stay home please.  But symptoms as they're defined medically are present all over the fucking place.  

That being said, I definitely don't think we should purge The Dog.  Just my view on that study being too hopeful.  

 

[The Dog 44020]

3 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

How many people are completely asymptomatic at any point in time?  Being in the airport, I swear at least 40% of people have the sniffles at the very fucking least.  I probably typically notice this more than other people (until recently) but just traveling in general between allergies, getting a cold, getting over a cold, smokers with chronic cough, former smokers with chronic cough, the guy clearing his throat constantly while getting over a hangover (guilty)...

I would agree that if you feel a little sick stay home please.  But symptoms as they're defined medically are present all over the fucking place.  

That being said, I definitely don't think we should purge The Dog.  Just my view on that study being too hopeful.  

 

Agreed (especially with flying with a hangover - it hurts). 

I think if you have had contact with someone who might have it that day and have washed your hands, then low risk (if any) of transmission.

3 days later? Yeah, avoid eerybody until you know whether or not you are sick. IMHO it's a gray area. 

I just think the panic/freaking out is getting a bit out of hand. 

[babysdaddy 2721]

Here's also the quote from the CDC:
"

Q: When is someone infectious?

A: The onset and duration of viral shedding and period of infectiousness for COVID-19 are not yet known. It is possible that SARS-CoV-2 RNA may be detectable in the upper or lower respiratory tract for weeks after illness onset, similar to infection with MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV. However, detection of viral RNA does not necessarily mean that infectious virus is present. Asymptomatic infection with SARS-CoV-2 has been reported, but it is not yet known what role asymptomatic infection plays in transmission. Similarly, the role of pre-symptomatic transmission (infection detection during the incubation period prior to illness onset) is unknown. Existing literature regarding SARS-CoV-2 and other coronaviruses (e.g. MERS-CoV, SARS-CoV) suggest that the incubation period may range from 2–14 days."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html

I did see a quote from the Harvard Med School saying that it could be transmitted while asymptomatic, but it was "inconclusive". 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/as-coronavirus-spreads-many-questions-and-some-answers-2020022719004

Keep in mind the Harvard blog is from last month, and we know more now than we did then. 

This is the best potential news I’ve read today. Thanks

[triplehorn 2664]

Novel coronavirus may cause environmental contamination through fecal shedding

Quote

FROM JAMA

The toilet bowl, sink, and bathroom door handle of an isolation room housing a patient with the novel coronavirus tested positive for the virus, raising the possibility that viral shedding in the stool could represent another route of transmission, investigators reported.

Air outlet fans and other room sites also tested positive for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), though an anteroom, a corridor, and most personal protective equipment (PPE) worn by health care providers tested negative, according to the researchers, led by Sean Wei Xiang Ong, MBBS, of the National Centre for Infectious Diseases, Singapore.

Taken together, these findings suggest a “need for strict adherence to environmental and hand hygiene” to combat significant environmental contamination through respiratory droplets and fecal shedding, Dr. Ong and colleagues wrote in JAMA.

Aaron Eli Glatt, MD, chair of medicine at Mount Sinai South Nassau in New York, said these results demonstrate that SARS-CoV-2 is “clearly capable” of contaminating bathroom sinks and toilets.

“That wouldn’t have been the first place I would have thought of, before this study,” he said in an interview. “You need to pay attention to cleaning the bathrooms, which we obviously do, but that’s an important reminder.”

The report by Dr. Ong and coauthors included a total of three patients housed in airborne infection isolation rooms in a dedicated SARS-CoV-2 outbreak center in Singapore. For each patient, surface samples were taken from 26 sites in the isolation room, an anteroom, and a bathroom. Samples were also taken from PPE on physicians as they left the patient rooms.

Samples for the first patient, taken right after routine cleaning, were all negative, according to researchers. That room was sampled twice, on days 4 and 10 of the illness, while the patient was still symptomatic. Likewise, for the second patient, postcleaning samples were negative; those samples were taken 2 days after cleaning.

However, for the third patient, samples were taken before routine cleaning. In this case, Dr. Ong and colleagues said 13 of 15 room sites (87%) were positive, including air outlet fans, while 3 of 5 toilet sites (60%) were positive as well, though no contamination was found in the anteroom, corridor, or in air samples.

That patient had two stool samples that were positive for SARS-CoV-2, but no diarrhea, authors said, and had upper respiratory tract involvement without pneumonia.

The fact that swabs of the air exhaust outlets tested positive suggests that virus-laden droplets could be “displaced by airflows” and end up on vents or other equipment, Dr. Ong and coauthors reported.

All PPE samples tested negative, except for the front of one shoe.

“The risk of transmission from contaminated footwear is likely low, as evidenced by negative results in the anteroom and corridor,” they wrote.

While this study included only a small number of patients, Dr. Glatt said the findings represent an important and useful contribution to the literature on coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).

“Every day we’re getting more information, and each little piece of the puzzle helps us in the overall management of individuals with COVID-19,” he said in the interview. “They’re adding to our ability to manage, control, and mitigate further spread of the disease.”

Funding for the study came from the National Medical Research Council in Singapore and DSO National Laboratories. Dr. Ong and colleagues reported no conflicts of interest.

 

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

13 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Certainly. Here's the quote:

"While media reports have widely circulated fears that asymptomatic people are silently spreading COVID-19 around communities and countries, there is little data to back that up. In fact, asymptomatic cases appear rare and potentially misclassified."

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/dont-panic-the-comprehensive-ars-technica-guide-to-the-coronavirus/

I'll work on finding the BBC link as well that CTJ referenced.

This is a nomenclature issue. The Italian data posted a page or two back indicated that very, very few people were actually permanently asymptomatic.  I think the Chinese estimate was 1%. 

But a much larger group started asymptomatic and then developed symptoms later, so they aren’t counted as asymptomatic for that metric. But if they were infectious during the time before they showed symptoms it amounts to the same problem during that period. 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Liquor and Poker

[ChiTownDoc 21151]

25 minutes ago, RayDog said:

OK, I know the rules. First is the 27 year old college student 5'2" 35 Kg. She wants to teach math.

Here are my 4 most serious girlfriends of the past two years, and I am still friends with them. I lived with the first one for almost six months last year.

First, well done. 

Second:

2

3

5

4

1

[akhornfan 4]

39 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Fair point, except for the fact Italy locked down their entire fucking country.  Maybe that thread is BS but it seems like some pretty bad shit is going down for officials to make that decision.  

Sorta I guess. Lockdown is a pretty broad term for what they’ve actually done. It does sound good though - makes it seem like a big deal. 

Edited March 10, 2020 by akhornfan

[Junior Miller 1502]

31 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Always wondered why you were so salty.  Was gonna recommend getting laid.  Maybe an IUD would be better...

Enjoy LA. 

He'll be the first one to bitch if one of his kids needs medical treatment but the hospitals are overrun with Covid19 patients because we didn't take the proper precautions he keeps shitting on during this period when we have the chance. 

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

Did I miss this too?  HISD employees under self-quarantine but HISD won’t say which schools:

https://www.click2houston.com/health/2020/03/07/latest-follow-the-developments-of-the-coronavirus-cases-in-the-houston-area/

 

[gsoda3 3254]

6 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Novel coronavirus may cause environmental contamination through fecal shedding

 

that's frightening.  it's literally hitting the fan.

[triplehorn 2664]

Social distancing and cutting social contacts by 70-80% works

[Helobious 9448]

33 minutes ago, F250 said:

This dude brings up an interesting point about our most obese cities.

 

 

 

Going to the valley this weekend, interested to see what the atmosphere is like. There’s not a whole lot that scares people down there, should be a good time to get cleaning stuff that’s harder to find in SA. 

[Rip76 4925]

 

[Hate 20108]

41 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I think the bigger thing with Italy, if there’s any substance to any of this, is the face to face greeting. I’ve been there and witnessed it as the social norm. It’s odd how little that’s being discussed. I don’t watch political or news channels, so maybe it is and it’s just not something I’ve seen. 

We should all adopt the Japanese bow instead of shaking hands and other forms of greeting that require physical contact.

[UDontKnow 10444]

3 minutes ago, Hate said:

We should all adopt the Japanese bow instead of shaking hands and other forms of greeting that require physical contact.

Namaste to you, Hate.

[atomheartbevo 89648]

Hopefully no Surly members are traveling to Mongolia or Panama, as they’ve joined the club.  

oh, and keep an eye out for the Fucking Catalina Wine Mixer   May get nixed soon   

 

[Hate 20108]

Someone upthread mentioned going to Panama on a fishing trip this summer. 

[RayDog 682]

21 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

First, well done. 

Second:

2

3

5

4

1

Forgive me. I forgot the 4 footer.

And her birthday is December 23, 2000 and she has a 2 year old.

Edited March 10, 2020 by RayDog

[workswithseed 2101]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Don't you take my absurd North Korea stories away from me.  Don't you tell me KJU didn't shoot 38 under par, motherfucker.  DON'T YOU TAKE THAT FROM ME.

Also, you're almost certainly right.  Meaning that the DPRK probably also has a better handle on this than we do.  Awesome.  This is like getting beaten out on the literacy ratings by Mississippi.

I mean they kill there people, also closed their borders even more so. Might not be the best country to look at.

[F250 28767]

4 minutes ago, Hate said:

We should all adopt the Japanese bow instead of shaking hands and other forms of greeting that require physical contact.

I'll just revert to my 1990's method of greating people. A slight head nod with an unenthusiastic "sup."

 

 

 

[StruggleBus 3922]

4 feet tall or 4 years old? Jesus

[triplehorn 2664]

11 minutes ago, Rip76 said:

 

dr. drew focusing on mortality and not the burden on hospitals due to the severity of respiratory distress and percent requiring hospitalization is the glaring omission.  That's what's been talked about here for over a week.  You listen to the Chinese and Italian medical staffs on the frontline and they're basically overwhelmed.  Would have been interesting to hear his response to China shutting down with a national quarantine.  How does he square that?  Would he be as flippant ?  

[UDontKnow 10444]

3 minutes ago, F250 said:

I'll just revert to my 1990's method of greating people. A slight head nod with an unenthusiastic "sup."