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Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

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Uncle Boobs
Uncle Boobs

Against my better judgment and several beers deep, I have taken you up on this, potentially ending my streak of totally worthless posts. I have done 3 and 7 day averages only on the Worldometer data. 

Brisketexan
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Daughter’s home. A little PTSD, we’re picking up Whataburger to help.

Coelenterate Fuccboi
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Just try and imagine GreenspointTexas being the person to intubate you as you fight for your life against COVID-19. You’re laying there gasping for air while he chastises you for all the things you li

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bolverk

bolverk 29705

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Posted
11 minutes ago, NoName said:

BBC: Coronavirus: Plan to ramp up ventilator production 'unrealistic'

Full Text:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Coronavirus: Plan to ramp up ventilator production 'unrealistic'

By Simon Gompertz & Esyllt CarrBBC News

Image copyrightPENLON

A medical devices maker has cast doubt on using non-specialist manufacturers to produce more ventilators.

Craig Thompson, head of products at Oxfordshire company Penlon, said the idea that other firms could switch production was unrealistic.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has urged engineering firms, including carmakers, to explore if they could make the life-saving equipment.

Ventilators are critical in the care of some people suffering coronavirus.

But there is concern the National Health Service will face a shortage of equipment as the virus infects more people.

The manufacturers association, Make UK, says that it would be possible for some specialist engineers to scale up production under licence.

Ford, Honda, car parts firm Unipart, digger maker JCB, and aero-engine maker Rolls Royce are among companies looking into the feasibility of switching some production.

Medical ventilators are used to provide oxygen to patients with breathing difficulties, but there are not nearly enough of them to deal with the coronavirus outbreak.

Skip Twitter post by @MattHancock
 

Calling all manufacturers who can support our National Effort for #coronavirus ventilator production - to help, contact Government Business Support team: 0300 456 3565 / ventilator.support@beis.gov.uk

 
 
 
 

End of Twitter post by @MattHancock

The Department of Health has revealed that in a worst case scenario the NHS will need an additional 20,000 of the machines. The NHS currently has about 5,000 adult ventilators and 900 for children in critical care facilities.

The Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, has tweeted asking for help from "all manufacturers who can support our National Effort for coronavirus ventilator production".

But Penlon, which makes anaesthesia machines that include a ventilator, is cautious about hopes that other companies can start making the equipment.

"The idea that an engineering company can quickly manufacturer medical devices, and comply with the rules, is unrealistic because of the heavy burden of standards and regulations that need to be complied with," said Penlon's Mr Thompson.

He said "the focus should be on existing medical device companies increasing supply of ventilators".

His firm makes 750 machines a year and could double production, given time. In the short term he could provide the NHS with up to 200 more machines.

"The manufacture of medical devices, such as ventilators, is highly regulated," Mr Thompson adds. "Typically a new medical device takes two or three years to develop and launch."

  The UK's only specialist maker of ventilators for intensive care units, Breas, in Stratford-upon-Avon, has already increased capacity and moved to seven-day working.

Breas makes a range of ventilators called Nippy, which are widely used in the NHS, but it only has 150 staff worldwide.

Make UK believes that the solution to the ventilator problem is to use what it calls contract manufacturing.

"Rather than a particular company trying in their own factory to make thousands and thousands of ventilators - which they would struggle to do - you have around them other manufacturers with capacity," said Stephen Phipson, Make's chief executive.

Presentational grey line

What is a ventilator?

  • A ventilator is a machine that helps a person breathe by getting oxygen into the lungs and removing carbon dioxide
  • Ventilators can be used to help a person breathe if they have lung disease or another condition that makes breathing difficult. They can also be used during and post-surgery
  • A tube, connected to a ventilator machine, is placed in a person's mouth, nose or through a small cut in the throat (called a tracheostomy)

Presentational grey line

The ventilator makers would licence their designs to other contractors. "There are quite a few companies in the UK which do that sort of work every day of the week," Mr Phipson added.

Small manufacturers are already responding to the government's appeal for help.

Jules Morgan, who owns KPM Marine, in Birmingham, making equipment for the marine industry, has offered to see whether he could make ventilator components.

Image captionJules Morgan says some components would have to be sourced from China

"The key will be in how it's managed. It'll involve different manufacturers making different parts - and somewhere it can go to be assembled," he says. "It's a big ask, but I think it's doable."

He said challenges would include sourcing electrical components from China and testing the units, which is a time consuming process.

But he said expectations may have to change. "These are extraordinary times, so you have to be pragmatic and innovative. We need to speak to medical professionals to find out what the core requirements are, and work to those.

"We may need to consider using older technology that's easier to produce in high volumes," Mr Morgan said.

  •  

 

 

Please, for the love of all things holy, use PASTE SPECIAL / PLAIN TEXT!

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NoName

NoName 16367

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Please, for the love of all things holy, use PASTE SPECIAL / PLAIN TEXT!

apologies, truly - will do it moving forward. 

Spoiler

 

Coronavirus: Plan to ramp up ventilator production 'unrealistic'
By Simon Gompertz & Esyllt Carr
BBC News
2 hours ago
Share this with Facebook Share this with Messenger Share this with Twitter Share this with Email Share
Related TopicsCoronavirus pandemic
Image copyrightPENLON
A medical devices maker has cast doubt on using non-specialist manufacturers to produce more ventilators.

Craig Thompson, head of products at Oxfordshire company Penlon, said the idea that other firms could switch production was unrealistic.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has urged engineering firms, including carmakers, to explore if they could make the life-saving equipment.

Ventilators are critical in the care of some people suffering coronavirus.

But there is concern the National Health Service will face a shortage of equipment as the virus infects more people.

The manufacturers association, Make UK, says that it would be possible for some specialist engineers to scale up production under licence.

Ford, Honda, car parts firm Unipart, digger maker JCB, and aero-engine maker Rolls Royce are among companies looking into the feasibility of switching some production.

Medical ventilators are used to provide oxygen to patients with breathing difficulties, but there are not nearly enough of them to deal with the coronavirus outbreak.

Image Copyright @MattHancock@MATTHANCOCK
Report
The Department of Health has revealed that in a worst case scenario the NHS will need an additional 20,000 of the machines. The NHS currently has about 5,000 adult ventilators and 900 for children in critical care facilities.

The Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, has tweeted asking for help from "all manufacturers who can support our National Effort for coronavirus ventilator production".

But Penlon, which makes anaesthesia machines that include a ventilator, is cautious about hopes that other companies can start making the equipment.

"The idea that an engineering company can quickly manufacturer medical devices, and comply with the rules, is unrealistic because of the heavy burden of standards and regulations that need to be complied with," said Penlon's Mr Thompson.

He said "the focus should be on existing medical device companies increasing supply of ventilators".

His firm makes 750 machines a year and could double production, given time. In the short term he could provide the NHS with up to 200 more machines.

"The manufacture of medical devices, such as ventilators, is highly regulated," Mr Thompson adds. "Typically a new medical device takes two or three years to develop and launch."

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The UK's only specialist maker of ventilators for intensive care units, Breas, in Stratford-upon-Avon, has already increased capacity and moved to seven-day working.

Breas makes a range of ventilators called Nippy, which are widely used in the NHS, but it only has 150 staff worldwide.

Make UK believes that the solution to the ventilator problem is to use what it calls contract manufacturing.

"Rather than a particular company trying in their own factory to make thousands and thousands of ventilators - which they would struggle to do - you have around them other manufacturers with capacity," said Stephen Phipson, Make's chief executive.

What is a ventilator?
A ventilator is a machine that helps a person breathe by getting oxygen into the lungs and removing carbon dioxide
Ventilators can be used to help a person breathe if they have lung disease or another condition that makes breathing difficult. They can also be used during and post-surgery
A tube, connected to a ventilator machine, is placed in a person's mouth, nose or through a small cut in the throat (called a tracheostomy)
The ventilator makers would licence their designs to other contractors. "There are quite a few companies in the UK which do that sort of work every day of the week," Mr Phipson added.

Small manufacturers are already responding to the government's appeal for help.

Jules Morgan, who owns KPM Marine, in Birmingham, making equipment for the marine industry, has offered to see whether he could make ventilator components.

Image caption
Jules Morgan says some components would have to be sourced from China
"The key will be in how it's managed. It'll involve different manufacturers making different parts - and somewhere it can go to be assembled," he says. "It's a big ask, but I think it's doable."

He said challenges would include sourcing electrical components from China and testing the units, which is a time consuming process.

But he said expectations may have to change. "These are extraordinary times, so you have to be pragmatic and innovative. We need to speak to medical professionals to find out what the core requirements are, and work to those.

"We may need to consider using older technology that's easier to produce in high volumes," Mr Morgan said.

 

 

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pantone159

pantone159 719

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Vaccine trial had first injection today.

I think it may be a proto-vaccine that still does not have anything related to COVID-19 yet. The trial is to try and find any bad side effects of the rest of the cocktail.

I do not have a link handy, but I read something like that this morning.

 

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Pancho

Pancho 44907

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Vaccine trial had first injection today.

 

2 minutes ago, Telegraph_it said:

Where did you see this?

 

It was reported online today.  The problem is they won't know for months if anything worked.  But yes, it was done today. 

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

Vaccine trial had first injection today.

While they are talking about more than a year to approve it, I think over time they will realize that they can loosen the safety protocols. It's a government bureaucracy, it's not flexible but over time and given a complete breakdown in society they will be forced to take more risk that they are normally comfortable with. 

I think I have an reasonably informed opinion and I am optimistic they can come up with something in a faster time frame, like before the expected fall resurgence. Herd immunity doesn't require 100% population immunity to be effective, just a good majority of the population.

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Foosters

Foosters 17860

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Posted

Downtown LA courthouse today was biz as usual. Crowded hallways, galleries, elevators. I declined the elevators and have walked a total of 53 flights today. In a suit. 

You think AT THE LEAST they would bar persons from the building who don't have business. Like, is there any reason to allow a family of 6 to stroll in to watch a 10 second pre-trial hearing where its just put over for a month?

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huge

huge 3795

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Downtown LA courthouse today was biz as usual. Crowded hallways, galleries, elevators. I declined the elevators and have walked a total of 53 flights today. In a suit. 

You think AT THE LEAST they would bar persons from the building who don't have business. Like, is there any reason to allow a family of 6 to stroll in to watch a 10 second pre-trial hearing where its just put over for a month?

But they closed all restaurants and bars.  huh

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NoName

NoName 16367

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

While they are talking about more than a year to approve it, I think over time they will realize that they can loosen the safety protocols. It's a government bureaucracy, it's not flexible but over time and given a complete breakdown in society they will be forced to take more risk that they are normally comfortable with. 

I think I have an reasonably informed opinion and I am optimistic they can come up with something in a faster time frame, like before the expected fall resurgence. Herd immunity doesn't require 100% population immunity to be effective, just a good majority of the population.

yeah, that isn't going to happen. the number of times that a vaccine has been widely available that quickly - even in a year is basically never.

~6 months? 

team fortress 2 no GIF

Edited by NoName
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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3362

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

While they are talking about more than a year to approve it, I think over time they will realize that they can loosen the safety protocols. It's a government bureaucracy, it's not flexible but over time and given a complete breakdown in society they will be forced to take more risk that they are normally comfortable with. 

I think I have an reasonably informed opinion and I am optimistic they can come up with something in a faster time frame, like before the expected fall resurgence. Herd immunity doesn't require 100% population immunity to be effective, just a good majority of the population.

I dont think the safety protocols qualify as simple bureaucracy.  They are there to ensure the cure isn't worse than the disease.  It would be high irony for the formerly anti-vaxx president to rush through a vaccine that causes autism.  

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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5797

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, stone oak said:

Nurse I am dating here at SA Methodist is getting tested for CV after one of her patients tested positive. Guess I'm fucked, see you guys on the other side.

 

This fucking sucks. How are we supposed to keep our wives from knowing about our girlfriends when the damn broads are giving us cv?!? 

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 33057

Posted
Posted
Just now, Doc Sam Beckett said:

 

This fucking sucks. How are we supposed to keep our wives from knowing about our girlfriends when the damn broads are giving us cv?!? 

Well in Contagion Paltrow's character didn't have to worry about an affair being revealed because she was dead. So there's that.

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Beantown Express 2.0

Beantown Express 2.0 6559

Posted
Posted

I guess this is a dumb question but if the administration and the CDC say no groups together larger than 10 shouldn't they have just worked with all governors to close all establishments in all states like bars, restaurants, gyms, movie theaters, etc...?  Don't they realize people in this country will still go about their business if they leave these places open?

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted (edited)

Does anyone still have kiddos in day care? Trying to make the decision on whether to pull the cord or not. My 18 month old goes Tues-Friday, and we're trying to make a decision before tomorrow. We can make it work, but it will suck. More a matter of when than if, but another week would be really helpful as I have some meetings already scheduled (I work from home), and I can schedule around his sleep schedule going forward.

They just put new restrictions in place. Temperature testing for staff and kids, and nobody allowed inside except staff (I guess we'll drop off outside)

Edited by BradInATX
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JesusSweatDuck

JesusSweatDuck 17787

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Does anyone still have kiddos in day care? Trying to make the decision on whether to pull the cord or not. My 18 month old goes Tues-Friday, and we're trying to make a decision before tomorrow. We can make it work, but it will suck. More a matter of when than if, but another week would be really helpful as I have some meetings already scheduled (I work from home), and I can schedule around his sleep schedule going forward.

Don't send them.

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26438

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

I guess this is a dumb question but if the administration and the CDC say no groups together larger than 10 shouldn't they have just worked with all governors to close all establishments in all states like bars, restaurants, gyms, movie theaters, etc...?  Don't they realize people in this country will still go about their business if they leave these places open?

It's not about fixing everything, it's about fixing most of it.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

Posted
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, pantone159 said:

I think it may be a proto-vaccine that still does not have anything related to COVID-19 yet. The trial is to try and find any bad side effects of the rest of the cocktail.

I do not have a link handy, but I read something like that this morning.

 

The virus itself is a single stranded RNA virus with 30k base pairs. It was sequenced in January. https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-virus-discovered-by-chinese-scientists-investigating-pneumonia-outbreak-11578485668?mod=article_inline

As an aside, here's a quote from that article, which was published 8 JAN.

Quote

The disease afflicting patients in Wuhan hasn’t been transmitted from human to human, and health-care workers have remained uninfected, according to city health officials as of Sunday, suggesting that what is sickening them is for now less virulent than SARS. Those ill in Wuhan are believed to have become sick through exposure to animals linked to a live seafood and animal market.

Caveat fucking emptor.

Phase I trials are supposed to be (more or less) safety only, not efficacy. However, the trial was scheduled to begin in April, and it's begun already. So it's moving faster than expected. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/when-will-a-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-be-ready-human-trials-global-immunisation

Quote

About 35 companies and academic institutions are racing to create such a vaccine, at least four of which already have candidates they have been testing in animals. The first of these – produced by Boston-based biotech firm Moderna – will enter human trials in April.

.........

Sars-CoV-2 shares between 80% and 90% of its genetic material with the virus that caused Sars – hence its name. Both consist of a strip of ribonucleic acid (RNA) inside a spherical protein capsule that is covered in spikes. The spikes lock on to receptors on the surface of cells lining the human lung – the same type of receptor in both cases – allowing the virus to break into the cell. Once inside, it hijacks the cell’s reproductive machinery to produce more copies of itself, before breaking out of the cell again and killing it in the process.

All vaccines work according to the same basic principle. They present part or all of the pathogen to the human immune system, usually in the form of an injection and at a low dose, to prompt the system to produce antibodies to the pathogen. Antibodies are a kind of immune memory which, having been elicited once, can be quickly mobilised again if the person is exposed to the virus in its natural form.

Traditionally, immunisation has been achieved using live, weakened forms of the virus, or part or whole of the virus once it has been inactivated by heat or chemicals. These methods have drawbacks. The live form can continue to evolve in the host, for example, potentially recapturing some of its virulence and making the recipient sick, while higher or repeat doses of the inactivated virus are required to achieve the necessary degree of protection. Some of the Covid-19 vaccine projects are using these tried-and-tested approaches, but others are using newer technology. One more recent strategy – the one that Novavax is using, for example – constructs a “recombinant” vaccine. This involves extracting the genetic code for the protein spike on the surface of Sars-CoV-2, which is the part of the virus most likely to provoke an immune reaction in humans, and pasting it into the genome of a bacterium or yeast – forcing these microorganisms to churn out large quantities of the protein. Other approaches, even newer, bypass the protein and build vaccines from the genetic instruction itself. This is the case for Moderna and another Boston company, CureVac, both of which are building Covid-19 vaccines out of messenger RNA.

I don't know why you make a bacteria produce the protein rather than just injecting it, but whatever, that's not a new technology. Bottom line, it will generate an antibody mediated immune response and immunologic memory.

Edited by Thetexashammer
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