Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Nueces River Rat 5538]

7 hours ago, LABEVO said:

I am going to guess we find out the same about take-out/drive-thru.

 

"When passengers were asked to go into a two-week quarantine in their cabins, crew members continued regular duties and delivered meals to guests. The workers remained in their cabins when they weren’t on duty"

 

How does Carnival survive this?   Can they because this occurred out of the jurisdiction of US waters on ship registered in another country?  Are they immune from possible litigation in the USA because a very good group of Trial Lawyers can make some good coin with this little nugget right here.  

[Enchubben 5510]

23 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Nothing wrong with using gloves to touch the gas pump but it could be overkill. Wouldn’t a paper towel work just as well assuming the handle is dry? I would still use sanitizer when I was done to be safe.

I put like 20 grocery store plastic bags in my car door storage spot and put my hand in one of those prior to touching the pump/credit card reader. Obviously not perfect, but better than nothing and saves the gloves for a more important lengthy event like a grocery store trip etc. 

Yea wiping the cc down is smart prior to putting it in your pocket or wallet is a good idea as well. Wish you could pay with Apple Pay at every station so I don’t need to use the physical card.

[Constant 6731]

If there are any “its just the flu” folks left...how many healthy 20 year olds get put in critical condition from the flu?

[ChickenSandwich 9833]

Good morning. Fuck China. 

[Nueces River Rat 5538]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

If you have the means, buy a camper with a kitchen, bathroom and shower and park it in your driveway.  You will have to refill propane and dump the tanks occasionally.  If you can, go social distance in Big Bend, Moab or anywhere that has BLM land if the parks are closed.

Edit: you can get a decent used camper that can do all the above for ten grand.  Look at craigslist of FB marketplace.

If I could, I would do this in heartbeat.

One common thing you will notice is the initial spread has been in areas of high concentrations of people such as the cruise ships,  nursing home and densely populated areas where people live close to one another in apartments or similar quarters.  One reason we get sicker in the winter time and even in Texas where we have milder  winters than most (but we get our share of winter yuck) is because we spend most of our time indoors where germs get trapped vs being outdoors where you have fresh air circulating around to disburse them and make them less lethal.   That doesn't mean with Corona or any other airborne virus or germ, you  can go outdoors  and live on the land if you will for short time and all sleep together in one tent or camper or what have you.   But being outdoors and in areas where there  is more separation between people should be a plus.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13511]

18 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Our son’s last day is Friday, and he’s not going back anytime soon. That being said, I’m fine with them staying open, and continuing to pay for his spot. Those workers make like 13 bucks an hour, need to work, and additionally some parents don’t have the option to stay home. Doctors and nurses need daycare, and we need them. If the kids are spreaders, and generally asymptomatic, well, bring on the herd immunity for caretakers. Just my opinion. No right/wrong answer. 
 

We need testing so we can track recovered and try to get more people out of their homes ASAP doing work. 

To each their own but your kid shouldn’t go starting today. I understand not everyone has options. If you want the workers to get paid, either pay for the remaining days if not hand money directly to them. The money for the caregivers shouldn’t be the reason to send your kid to daycare.

im not attacking you but kids playing together is the opposite of social distancing.

[tantric superman 4667]

Word to the wise:  If you get a chance to listen to an interview with Gov. Cuomo, don't. 

Guy is pretty grim.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13511]

3 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Word to the wise:  If you get a chance to listen to an interview with Gov. Cuomo, don't. 

Guy is pretty grim.

When Washington was getting hit hard, NY looked like it was being spared.  NY now has 25% of all US cases.  Everything that NY failed to do 1-2 weeks ago is what Texas should be doing today.

[Buzzrock 14918]

"When passengers were asked to go into a two-week quarantine in their cabins, crew members continued regular duties and delivered meals to guests. The workers remained in their cabins when they weren’t on duty"
 
How does Carnival survive this?   Can they because this occurred out of the jurisdiction of US waters on ship registered in another country?  Are they immune from possible litigation in the USA because a very good group of Trial Lawyers can make some good coin with this little nugget right here.  

Buddy who calls on the cruise lines for work says they have had it really good for a really long time, and it will be bloody but they have the reserves to ride it out. We’ll see.

[Goredho 17399]

Many people + air recirculation == bad news

The tests show that when the virus is carried by the droplets released when someone coughs or sneezes, it remains viable, or able to still infect people, in aerosols for at least three hours. 

On plastic and stainless steel, viable virus could be detected after three days. On cardboard, the virus was not viable after 24 hours. On copper, it took 4 hours for the virus to become inactivated.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-study/coronavirus-can-persist-in-air-for-hours-and-on-surfaces-for-days-study-idUSKBN2143QP

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Almost time to shame me...

Got an alert from my company’s emergency system that someone suspected of being infected was last in the office on March 12th. They are closing the floors of that building (not the one I am in) to be sanitized. Doesn’t make much sense. Just shut it all down. Maybe if this person is confirmed positive they will finally do that.

Still early but there are maybe 3-4 people in my project area here now. My situation is probably like a lot of other people’s, but I am not sure what to do. Under the gun to meet a deadline. Both my wife and I work. She can’t do her job from home. I can, but very inefficiently (and evening more so if the kids are home). Daycare is open. Even if it did close, I wouldn’t want to ask my elderly parents to watch those two germ factories. Kind of stuck trying to get the job done and do what is right.

[BradInATX 9208]

For those asking the day care question, we pulled our son out as of yesterday (his last day prior to that was last Friday). But it was a very tough decision, and our family situation is very, very conducive to making it work. Do what works for your family. Our day care admin said that more than half of families are still enrolled. 

[Buzzrock 14918]

If I could, I would do this in heartbeat.
One common thing you will notice is the initial spread has been in areas of high concentrations of people such as the cruise ships,  nursing home and densely populated areas where people live close to one another in apartments or similar quarters.  One reason we get sicker in the winter time and even in Texas where we have milder  winters than most (but we get our share of winter yuck) is because we spend most of our time indoors where germs get trapped vs being outdoors where you have fresh air circulating around to disburse them and make them less lethal.   That doesn't mean with Corona or any other airborne virus or germ, you  can go outdoors  and live on the land if you will for short time and all sleep together in one tent or camper or what have you.   But being outdoors and in areas where there  is more separation between people should be a plus.

It’s supposed to be 80° in Atlanta on Thursday, I intend to get outside a good bit.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

4 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

This virus was in the US before the New Year and none of us new it because China did everything they could to keep a lid on it before admitting they fucked us all 

 

4 hours ago, Hate said:

This is 100% correct and something I've been espousing since the early days of this pandemic. The Chinese probably knew this was an issue by mid November or so.  Fuck them.  They need to feel the pain the rest of the world will feel from this. We need to re-patriot as much of our manufacturing as we possibly can and what can't be brought back to the US should go to Mexico, Central and South America.  Fuck China!

 

35 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

The Chinese should be accountable once and for all  for the petri dishes called the "wet markets" where most of theses viruses originate from.   

This Vox clip pretty much nails the issue and why the Chinese refuse to fix it.     

One of the comments on the thread on You Tube says even our deaths will have "Made in China" label on it.

 

Agree with all of this.  Once we are through this, there should be some real fucking anger by the rest of the world, and China should be taken to task.

[SydneyCarton 48076]

9 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

To each their own but your kid shouldn’t go starting today. I understand not everyone has options. If you want the workers to get paid, either pay for the remaining days if not hand money directly to them. The money for the caregivers shouldn’t be the reason to send your kid to daycare.

im not attacking you but kids playing together is the opposite of social distancing.

Sorry, I mistyped. His last day was LAST Friday. We’re in day 4 of self quarantine. Honestly I fucking debated leaving him in to finish off last week.  

[Buzzrock 14918]

Agree with all of this.  Once we are through this, there should be some real fucking anger by the rest of the world, and China should be taken to task.

I wonder if we will be able to distinguish the Chinese government from the Chinese people. The Chinese (and Iranian) people are getting the shaft because of their stupid governments /noCR.

[Buzzrock 14918]

Don’t worry, humanity is still alive and kicking:

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

10 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Good morning. Fuck China. 

China is asshole

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

15 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

I put like 20 grocery store plastic bags in my car door storage spot and put my hand in one of those prior to touching the pump/credit card reader. Obviously not perfect, but better than nothing and saves the gloves for a more important lengthy event like a grocery store trip etc. 

Yea wiping the cc down is smart prior to putting it in your pocket or wallet is a good idea as well. Wish you could pay with Apple Pay at every station so I don’t need to use the physical card.

Exactly, gloves are much more fashionable in a store than a pair of plastic bags ....

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

Sorry, I mistyped. His last day was LAST Friday. We’re in day 4 of self quarantine. Honestly I fucking debated leaving him in to finish off last week.  

Why do you hate your kid so much ?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

3 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

When Washington was getting hit hard, NY looked like it was being spared.  NY now has 25% of all US cases.  Everything that NY failed to do 1-2 weeks ago is what Texas should be doing today.

NY has also significantly ramped up testing.  You also have to remember that areas of the NY City metro are the densest in the US.  It makes sense that we would have more cases.  

Also, we have the Hasidic Jewish community that has basically said fuck you to the rules:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/nyregion/coronavirus-hasidic-weddings-brooklyn.html

[SydneyCarton 48076]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Why do you hate your kid so much ?

Because he’s just like me?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

NY has also significantly ramped up testing.  You also have to remember that areas of the NY City metro are the densest in the US.  It makes sense that we would have more cases.  

Also, we have the Hasidic Jewish community that has basically said fuck you to the rules:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/nyregion/coronavirus-hasidic-weddings-brooklyn.html

So... yer sayin' the Jeeeeeeews did this ??!!

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

2 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

I wonder if we will be able to distinguish the Chinese government from the Chinese people. The Chinese (and Iranian) people are getting the shaft because of their stupid governments /noCR.

 

I agree with you to an extent.  I am not a fan of the Chinese tourists that are used to commit IP theft or any that knowingly aid their govt/companies in spying/theft whatsoever.  Fuck those folks as well.

[GreenspointTexas 9600]

Yall are still wanting to put your kids in daycare? Jfc no wonder cities have to issue “shelter in place” mandates

 

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

So... yer sayin' the Jeeeeeeews did this ??!!

Just those that attended that wedding.  Fuck those assholes.

[Nueces River Rat 5538]

Just now, Buzzrock said:

 

I wonder if we will be able to distinguish the Chinese government from the Chinese people. The Chinese (and Iranian) people are getting the shaft because of their stupid governments /noCR.

 

I agree.   One thing from the Vox video that I posted that surprised me is these "wet markets" are primary in business for the Chinese "rich"  to get their exotic meats and not necessarily for the average person from the peasant class. Of course the rich in Chinese are the ALL part of the ruling party.   And many of them have gained their bank thanks to the export/manufacturing system they have in place with the rest of the world, primarily the USA.  

 It's not like in this country where if we want what we call exotic game, we hunt it on a special ranch,  process it immediately and don't let it get exposed to possible cross contamination issues.  

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Yall are still wanting to put your kids in daycare? Jfc no wonder cities have to issue “shelter in place” mandates
 
 

Hey fuckface, it’s not black and white. A lot of our employers are not shut down. Should I let my kids stay with their elderly grandparents? Maybe I can quit my job? What’s your solution?

[Neonmoon 38129]

In not surprising news: Things not going well in Iran

https://www.dw.com/en/iran-faces-catastrophic-death-toll-from-coronavirus/a-52811895

Quote

"We have neither the capacity nor the ability to put Tehran under quarantine," as Mayor Pirouz Hanachi was forced to admit, adding: "We can't take care of quarantined people. That is in part because of the sanctions."

Official statistics already paint a grim picture: More than 16,000 COVID-19 infections had been registered as of Tuesday evening, with 988 deaths. 

Iran currently has the third-highest number of coronavirus deaths worldwide, though many suspect the true number of corona-related illnesses and deaths there is far higher than currently known. The World Health Organization (WHO) said Tuesday it believes the actual numbers could be five times higher.

 

[Enchubben 5510]

7 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Yall are still wanting to put your kids in daycare? Jfc no wonder cities have to issue “shelter in place” mandates

 

 

If you are in the healthcare profession and a single parent, or both parents work, where does your kid go? 

[SydneyCarton 48076]

8 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Yall are still wanting to put your kids in daycare? Jfc no wonder cities have to issue “shelter in place” mandates

 

 

Fuck off, loser. At this point you’re about as welcome on this thread as the actual coronavirus. 
 

ive got a friend who is a single mom, and also a doctor at a hospital, about to be on the front lines for this in California. Her childcare is her parents and daycare. So tell me, shit for brains, should she cower at home like you and not follow her Hippocratic oath to help save lives, or should she cross her fingers with daycare and herd immunity and do her fucking job?

[Loco 3752]

10 hours ago, Lurch said:

Sorry if already discussed, but... haircuts? We all going shaggy, or what?

#2 and a towel.  Not Surly hair 1%er...  or maybe I am, it's tricky

7 hours ago, tjhooker said:

Did that today.  Also with mail I do the same. I open the letters or box in garage. Throw packing away.  Then go in and wash my hands. That way I don't even place the stuff on my counter in the kitchen.  It will never be perfect but as best as I can do.  I feel like a freak doing it. 

Just leave the mail in the garage for 2 days.  Does anyone seriously still get things in the mail that are so urgent that waiting 2 days will make a difference?  Not me just a shit load of junk mail and market rags

18 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

China Announces it will Expel US Journalists

 

Nothing to see here, says China.

That seemingly was NOT about the virus...  get's a little cloaky so spoilered.   BBC article says it's tit for tat based on US expulsions of Chinese journalists

Spoiler

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51938035

Its foreign ministry ordered reporters from the New York Times, the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal to return media passes within 10 days.

The ministry also demanded information about their operations in China.

The measures were in response to “unwarranted restrictions on Chinese media agencies” in the US, it said.

China's action also prohibits the newspapers' journalists from working in the semi-autonomous regions of Hong Kong and Macau, where there is greater press freedom than on the mainland.

Earlier this month, the Trump administration imposed limits on the number of Chinese citizens who could work as journalists in the US – the latest move in a tit-for-tat row over press freedoms.

1 hour ago, RayDog said:

I am in trouble. Gf1 and gf2 are friends and I lived with gf1 for 6 months  and we are friends with boom boom and gf2 spent last  weekend with me without gf1 knowing.  Gf2 was supposed to spend the next few nights with me but gf1 had trouble moving between  cities because her ID says she lives with me. So gf1 moves back in with me and I waived off gf2. The gf2 video chats gf1 while  at my place and invites herself over  for dinner tomorrow.  Gf1 points the phone at me so I waive as innocently as I can. Then gf2 tells gf1 she wants boom boom with me. Oh, and at some point gf2 starts saying she is pregnant, although I don't  think it is possible due to her cycle.

So tomorrow I am looking at

a. Death, b. Two girls living with me, c. A 3some with gf2 going home, d. Gf1 moving out and gf2 staying, e. Both girls  leaving, f. Gf2 behaves and nothing happens, g. gf2 confesses and gf1 is cool with it but not down for a 3some. Note that gf1 already wants us to have a 3some with a different girlfriend. 

Suddenly the virus is not my biggest problem.

Do you have enough condoms for that sort of thing?

 

For everyone zealously saying "Fuck China" I agree.  Just don't conflate asian people with the Chinese government.   Most/all of the chinese people here hate that government way more than you do.    

[Digdogger 1344]

16 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I agree with you to an extent.  I am not a fan of the Chinese tourists 

I stopped reading there.  And I couldn’t agree more.  I mean, how many pictures do you need to take?

[GreenspointTexas 9600]

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Fuck off, loser. At this point you’re about as welcome on this thread as the actual coronavirus. 
 

ive got a friend who is a single mom, and also a doctor at a hospital, about to be on the front lines for this in California. Her childcare is her parents and daycare. So tell me, shit for brains, should she cower at home like you and not follow her Hippocratic oath to help save lives, or should she cross her fingers with daycare and herd immunity and do her fucking job?

Because babysitters and nannies dont exist? There arent other family members that can watch them? Or friends that are working from home?

 

use your brains guys
 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

10 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I agree.   One thing from the Vox video that I posted that surprised me is these "wet markets" are primary in business for the Chinese "rich"  to get their exotic meats and not necessarily for the average person from the peasant class. Of course the rich in Chinese are the ALL part of the ruling party.   And many of them have gained their bank thanks to the export/manufacturing system they have in place with the rest of the world, primarily the USA.  

 It's not like in this country where if we want what we call exotic game, we hunt it on a special ranch,  process it immediately and don't let it get exposed to possible cross contamination issues.  

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I assumed that the reason the quarantine was announced about two days in advance (by the Chinese govt) was so those with $$ would have time to pack up and travel to whatever global destination they desired.

[bluto 4916]

Because babysitters and nannies dont exist? There arent other family members that can watch them? Or friends that are working from home?
 
use your brains guys
 

Wait, you think a friend working from home can/should/will babysit somebody else’s kid? Use your brain fuck nut.

-single guy who wfh

[Snake Diggity 4621]

9 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

How does everyone feel about daycares right now? Are a lot of cities mandating that they close? Are any of you still using them?

We have friends who still take one of their two kids to daycare with no plans to stop until the daycare is forced to close. It makes no sense to me because the mom is currently home from work on maternity leave with their other kid who is ~7 weeks old.

Our day care is still open, but we pulled our kids out starting this week.  Won’t bring them back until AISD reopens or the CDC removes their guidance against large gatherings.  Sucks because now my wife and I are going through all of our PTO each taking half days every day.  Not sure what we will do if this last longer than our PTO does because my work already told me that since it was “voluntary” for me to take my kids out, they are unlikely to accommodate me workin less than full time after my PTO runs out.

[Buzzrock 14918]

I agree with you to an extent.  I am not a fan of the Chinese tourists that are used to commit IP theft or any that knowingly aid their govt/companies in spying/theft whatsoever.  Fuck those folks as well.

Fair. But they are in those positions for a reason.

[TXSG8R 3362]

59 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

NO CR intended, just good old fashioned fuck them in the ass schadenfreude. Time to pull our manufacturing back to America for several reasons, but putting the economic nuke drop on them would be delicious.  Fucking murdering criminals.  

Not taking a shot at you, but why do you think it was such a simple, voluntary decision to move manufacturing there?  Americans don’t want to pay for goods with American labor tacked onto them. It would be great if this caused a great awakening, but it’s more likely that a handful of companies shift things to a different country (Mexico, Taiwan, etc) to diversify.  Ultimately China undercuts everyone on labor again and companies line back up to get shit made there.  That place has been an IP chop shop for a while now and companies still roll their shit in there. 

[Parliament 14255]

22 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Fuck off, loser. At this point you’re about as welcome on this thread as the actual coronavirus. 
 

ive got a friend who is a single mom, and also a doctor at a hospital, about to be on the front lines for this in California. Her childcare is her parents and daycare. So tell me, shit for brains, should she cower at home like you and not follow her Hippocratic oath to help save lives, or should she cross her fingers with daycare and herd immunity and do her fucking job?

Have we suspended the rules for the duration of this crisis?  Seems kinda extreme.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

37 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

NY has also significantly ramped up testing.  You also have to remember that areas of the NY City metro are the densest in the US.  It makes sense that we would have more cases.  

Also, we have the Hasidic Jewish community that has basically said fuck you to the rules:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/nyregion/coronavirus-hasidic-weddings-brooklyn.html

Round them up

[NoName 16351]

There have been discussions about NYC and about potential extra space, here is some more info on that re: NYU dorms being considered for overflow space for hospitals 

 

[CleverNickname 1308]

1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Was at Big Bend this past weekend. There were license plates from all over the country and you still have to go to the visitor centers to get permits and stuff. So maybe not a great idea. Boondocking on BLM land or National Forest would be the way to go.

Literally in the Basin right now. Park is effectively in government shut down. No visitors centers. Little store is open, but they have a cap on number inside.  Basin restaurant is basically take out only plusbthe 4 outside tables. We've eaten 100% of our food from our own stores. I saw only 1 other truck in the state park yesterday. Today may be a little busier - grapevine hills and walking tornillo creek. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

16 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Our day care is still open, but we pulled our kids out starting this week.  Won’t bring them back until AISD reopens or the CDC removes their guidance against large gatherings.  Sucks because now my wife and I are going through all of our PTO each taking half days every day.  Not sure what we will do if this last longer than our PTO does because my work already told me that since it was “voluntary” for me to take my kids out, they are unlikely to accommodate me workin less than full time after my PTO runs out.

I know your company isn't different from most, but good Lord that sucks.  Why are some of these companies acting like everything is normal?

When a global pandemic and national emergency are officially declared like this I think some rules need to be amended.

[horncyclist 1387]

34 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

In not surprising news: Things not going well in Iran

https://www.dw.com/en/iran-faces-catastrophic-death-toll-from-coronavirus/a-52811895

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this brings the Iranian regime down.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I know your company isn't different from most, but good Lord that sucks.  Why are some of these companies acting like everything is normal?
When a global pandemic and national emergency are officially declared like this I think some rules need to be amended.

$$$

[NoName 16351]

this is also relevant to discussions in prior pages

text below

Spoiler

Aerosol and Surface Stability of SARS-CoV-2 as Compared with SARS-CoV-1
March 17, 2020
DOI: 10.1056/NEJMc2004973
Metrics 

TO THE EDITOR:
A novel human coronavirus that is now named severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) (formerly called HCoV-19) emerged in Wuhan, China, in late 2019 and is now causing a pandemic.1 We analyzed the aerosol and surface stability of SARS-CoV-2 and compared it with SARS-CoV-1, the most closely related human coronavirus.2

We evaluated the stability of SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV-1 in aerosols and on various surfaces and estimated their decay rates using a Bayesian regression model (see the Methods section in the Supplementary Appendix, available with the full text of this letter at NEJM.org). SARS-CoV-2 nCoV-WA1-2020 (MN985325.1) and SARS-CoV-1 Tor2 (AY274119.3) were the strains used. Aerosols (<5 μm) containing SARS-CoV-2 (105.25 50% tissue-culture infectious dose [TCID50] per milliliter) or SARS-CoV-1 (106.75-7.00 TCID50 per milliliter) were generated with the use of a three-jet Collison nebulizer and fed into a Goldberg drum to create an aerosolized environment. The inoculum resulted in cycle-threshold values between 20 and 22, similar to those observed in samples obtained from the upper and lower respiratory tract in humans.

Our data consisted of 10 experimental conditions involving two viruses (SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV-1) in five environmental conditions (aerosols, plastic, stainless steel, copper, and cardboard). All experimental measurements are reported as means across three replicates.

Figure 1.

Viability of SARS-CoV-1 and SARS-CoV-2 in Aerosols and on Various Surfaces.
SARS-CoV-2 remained viable in aerosols throughout the duration of our experiment (3 hours), with a reduction in infectious titer from 103.5 to 102.7 TCID50 per liter of air. This reduction was similar to that observed with SARS-CoV-1, from 104.3 to 103.5 TCID50 per milliliter (Figure 1A).

SARS-CoV-2 was more stable on plastic and stainless steel than on copper and cardboard, and viable virus was detected up to 72 hours after application to these surfaces (Figure 1A), although the virus titer was greatly reduced (from 103.7 to 100.6 TCID50 per milliliter of medium after 72 hours on plastic and from 103.7 to 100.6 TCID50 per milliliter after 48 hours on stainless steel). The stability kinetics of SARS-CoV-1 were similar (from 103.4 to 100.7 TCID50 per milliliter after 72 hours on plastic and from 103.6 to 100.6 TCID50 per milliliter after 48 hours on stainless steel). On copper, no viable SARS-CoV-2 was measured after 4 hours and no viable SARS-CoV-1 was measured after 8 hours. On cardboard, no viable SARS-CoV-2 was measured after 24 hours and no viable SARS-CoV-1 was measured after 8 hours (Figure 1A).

Both viruses had an exponential decay in virus titer across all experimental conditions, as indicated by a linear decrease in the log10TCID50 per liter of air or milliliter of medium over time (Figure 1B). The half-lives of SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV-1 were similar in aerosols, with median estimates of approximately 1.1 to 1.2 hours and 95% credible intervals of 0.64 to 2.64 for SARS-CoV-2 and 0.78 to 2.43 for SARS-CoV-1 (Figure 1C, and Table S1 in the Supplementary Appendix). The half-lives of the two viruses were also similar on copper. On cardboard, the half-life of SARS-CoV-2 was longer than that of SARS-CoV-1. The longest viability of both viruses was on stainless steel and plastic; the estimated median half-life of SARS-CoV-2 was approximately 5.6 hours on stainless steel and 6.8 hours on plastic (Figure 1C). Estimated differences in the half-lives of the two viruses were small except for those on cardboard (Figure 1C). Individual replicate data were noticeably “noisier” (i.e., there was more variation in the experiment, resulting in a larger standard error) for cardboard than for other surfaces (Fig. S1 through S5), so we advise caution in interpreting this result.

We found that the stability of SARS-CoV-2 was similar to that of SARS-CoV-1 under the experimental circumstances tested. This indicates that differences in the epidemiologic characteristics of these viruses probably arise from other factors, including high viral loads in the upper respiratory tract and the potential for persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 to shed and transmit the virus while asymptomatic.3,4 Our results indicate that aerosol and fomite transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is plausible, since the virus can remain viable and infectious in aerosols for hours and on surfaces up to days (depending on the inoculum shed). These findings echo those with SARS-CoV-1, in which these forms of transmission were associated with nosocomial spread and super-spreading events,5 and they provide information for pandemic mitigation efforts.

Neeltje van Doremalen, Ph.D.
Trenton Bushmaker, B.Sc.
National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Hamilton, MT

Dylan H. Morris, M.Phil.
Princeton University, Princeton, NJ

Myndi G. Holbrook, B.Sc.
National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Hamilton, MT

Amandine Gamble, Ph.D.
University of California, Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA

Brandi N. Williamson, M.P.H.
National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Hamilton, MT

Azaibi Tamin, Ph.D.
Jennifer L. Harcourt, Ph.D.
Natalie J. Thornburg, Ph.D.
Susan I. Gerber, M.D.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA

James O. Lloyd-Smith, Ph.D.
University of California, Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA, Bethesda, MD

Emmie de Wit, Ph.D.
Vincent J. Munster, Ph.D.
National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Hamilton, MT 
vincent.munster@nih.gov

Supported by the Intramural Research Program of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, National Institutes of Health, and by contracts from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA PREEMPT No. D18AC00031, to Drs. Lloyd-Smith and Gamble), from the National Science Foundation (DEB-1557022, to Dr. Lloyd-Smith), and from the Strategic Environmental Research and Development Program of the Department of Defense (SERDP, RC-2635, to Dr. Lloyd-Smith).

Disclosure forms provided by the authors are available with the full text of this letter at NEJM.org.

The findings and conclusions in this letter are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official position of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Names of specific vendors, manufacturers, or products are included for public health and informational purposes; inclusion does not imply endorsement of the vendors, manufacturers, or products by the CDC or the Department of Health and Human Services.

This letter was published on March 17, 2020, at NEJM.org.

Dr. van Doremalen, Mr. Bushmaker, and Mr. Morris contributed equally to this letter.

 

 

 

plastic and steel: viable virus after 72 hours

copper: no viable virus 8 hours 

cardboard: no viable virus after 24 hours

Edited March 18, 2020 by NoName

[SydneyCarton 48076]

23 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Because babysitters and nannies dont exist? There arent other family members that can watch them? Or friends that are working from home?

 

use your brains guys
 

I’d love to see you open your doors to a neighbor’s kids right now, while you decry others for not doing the same. You’d probably shoot kids stepping over your property line right now if you thought you could get away with it. But everyone knows your most likely reaction would be to shriek shrilly at the top of your lungs, cradle your face in your hands, spin over and then promptly pass out. Your wife would have to drag you to the couch and fan you awake. 

[NoName 16351]

Vaccine info from Imperial College report:

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by NoName

[B00M 6414]

10 hours ago, dcar00 said:

a week huh?

The data indicatas we are ~10 days behind italy. Milan's hospitals were overwhelmed last Tuesday so, yes it's reasonable for our 1st hospitals (probably in Washington state) to be struggling as early as Friday.