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Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

InkaUtexas

By InkaUtexas
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Uncle Boobs
Uncle Boobs

Against my better judgment and several beers deep, I have taken you up on this, potentially ending my streak of totally worthless posts. I have done 3 and 7 day averages only on the Worldometer data. 

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

Daughter’s home. A little PTSD, we’re picking up Whataburger to help.

Coelenterate Fuccboi
Coelenterate Fuccboi

Just try and imagine GreenspointTexas being the person to intubate you as you fight for your life against COVID-19. You’re laying there gasping for air while he chastises you for all the things you li

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Macanudo

Macanudo 13010

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Somnio said:

Italy's deaths from Covid-19 just passed the number of deaths from China, though China's deaths are almost assuredly not accurate.

41,035 confirmed cases

3405 deaths

I've been saying since it started to add at least 1 zero and probably 2 for both the infected and dead.

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GabrielsHorn

GabrielsHorn 2186

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Loco said:

So hospitals struggle to maintain sanitary conditions...  therefore we should give it a shot on a cruise ship designed for comfort not healthcare ??   Repeat after me...Cruise-ship carpet!  Or are we on the hook for a whole retro-refit when we are done?

I doubt cruise ships would be retrofitted, but it’s more a possibility of where to put patients if hospitals are flooded. Think some of the colleges that were requiring people to move out of dorms were anticipating for the situation in which the dorms would be used for patients. I’d imagine it’d be the same concept for the cruise ships. 
 

If we get to that level, though, society is completely screwed. 

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dcar00

dcar00 14354

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I didn't challenge that it originated in a wet-market, so I'm not sure what you mean. I agree the wet-markets are a problem and have an increased possibility of allowing new viruses to jump to humans. Again, I really don't know that you and I disagree on anything here. I'm not saying you can't blame China for how it handled everything. Hell, I'm saying you should. I'm just saying calling China the sole cause is misguided. Other countries have similar markets and practices that can allow new viruses to jump to humans. Our country isn't perfect in this regard either. A lot of entities contributed to this getting as bad as it appears to be, not just China. 

China not reporting this early and THEN reporting to the WHO that it didn't transmit person to person was fucking huge and probably 90% of the cause of this.  it was going to get out because of the asymptomatic carriers but they seriously fucked up the timeline for everyone.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13523

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Too bad Rick Scott doesn't have any power to you know like close the beaches and send a police presence to make sure those fuckers go home already so they can spread all the diseases they just got (including Corona Virus) to the rest of us.

He probably doesn't as Senator but he could call out the governor, city or county officials to do so.  For some reason I guess he doesn't want to blame individuals instead blaming out of state college students creates less political damage.

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Macanudo

Macanudo 13010

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, justhookit said:

There are probably 340,000 deaths in Italy right now? Dude.

Probably closer to 10,000 than 3,400 in Italy.  But want to bet China has more than 3,200 deaths and probably closer to 32,000?   And we have closer to 1,000 dead than 175 but we COULDNT FUCKING TEST PEOPLE.

Edited by Macanudo
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Loco

Loco 3754

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

He probably doesn't as Senator but he could call out the governor, city or county officials to do so.  For some reason I guess he doesn't want to blame individuals instead blaming out of state college students creates less political damage.

Rick Scott has been the voice of reason so far in Florida...  and he's been largely ignored.    Former governor and CEO of a massive healthcare ORG  what could he possibly know, Am I right?!

Full Disclosure: I am not a Rick Scott fan.

Edited by Loco
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dcar00

dcar00 14354

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

1.  The ships will be thoroughly cleaned first

2.  The behavior of persons in a emergency makeshift hospital is going to be completely different than that of ignorant cruisers and workers that in the early days didn't have much insight and perspective on CV and thus many were not taking the necessary precautions.

3.  You worried that CV patients might pick up CV on a ship?  (OK, to be fair, we still don't know about the risk of reinfection and worry about increased risk for med staff.  Though I do wonder if staff that have recovered from mild cases of CV might be used in the various CV only units that will be set up.)

This is like a war, you do the best you can in crisis, it will be impossible for everything to be perfect.  We can't keep thinking like vulture lawyers.  

the entry and exit points are easy to control as well.  a lot of times there are a bunch of different ways to get into a hospital area and generally not tightly controlled.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21154

Posted
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Loco said:

Or that we have currently empty municipal buildings that could be more easily sanitized and used.   Yes schools are out for a month and at least down here they are simple concrete and terrazzo construction.  Bubba could pressure wash the whole thing with the disinfectant of your choosing.  Easy access for ambulances, already physical security, food prep...

They are owned and empty. Room after room after room.  But sure let's rent a cruise-ship!

 

Full disclosure I'm all for the medically best solution in this crisis. 

 

LOL the cruise ship 'solution'...seriously wtf?  Many hotels are closing too.  They are much cleaner than cruise ships and often on the same block as hospitals. 

If cruise ships happen to make more sense, I'm all for it...but why on earth wouldn't you use hotels and other much more accessible places first?  Cruise ship just seems outlandish to me.  

Edited by ChiTownDoc
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Loco

Loco 3754

Posted
Posted
Just now, dcar00 said:

the entry and exit points are easy to control as well.  a lot of times there are a bunch of different ways to get into a hospital area and generally not tightly controlled.

Florida school buildings are controlled entry and access also.  Not cruise-ship controlled, but better than hospitals for sure

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dcar00

dcar00 14354

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Foosters said:

I know certain people in this country are pretty thrilled that half of our attention and energy is now spent arguing about what to call the virus.

what's hilarious is f the media just ignored Trump on that, it would go away. coronavirus and covid19 were already in the lexicon and everyone knew it originated in China from bat eaters.

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clapclapclap

clapclapclap 9000

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Foosters said:

I know certain people in this country are pretty thrilled that half of our attention and energy is now spent arguing about what to call the virus.

The press wasted 4 questions on it at yesterday's press conference.  If you don't want arguing about it, how about getting your half to stop constantly bringing it up?

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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 4014

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Probably closer to 10,000 than 3,400 in Italy.  But want to bet China has more than 3,200 deaths and probably closer to 32,000?   And we have closer to 1,000 dead than 175 but we COULDNT FUCKING TEST PEOPLE.

Where are all these dead bodies hiding?

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JBJ

JBJ 3664

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

China not reporting this early and THEN reporting to the WHO that it didn't transmit person to person was fucking huge and probably 90% of the cause of this.  it was going to get out because of the asymptomatic carriers but they seriously fucked up the timeline for everyone.

Asymptomatic spreaders seem to be a myth.

Unless you are referring to the incubation period.

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strangulation!

strangulation! 1716

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

LOL the cruise ship 'solution'...seriously wtf?  Many hotels are closing too.  They are much cleaner than cruise ships and often on the same block as hospitals. 

If cruise ships happen to make more sense, I'm all for it...but why on earth wouldn't you use hotels and other much more accessible places first?  Cruise ship just seems outlandish to me.  

and hotels are in every city, whereas cruise ships clearly aren't

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

LOL the cruise ship 'solution'...seriously wtf?  Many hotels are closing too.  They are much cleaner than cruise ships and often on the same block as hospitals. 

If cruise ships happen to make more sense, I'm all for it...but why on earth wouldn't you use hotels and other much more accessible places first?  Cruise ship just seems outlandish to me.  

So cruise ships it is!!!

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Beantown Express 2.0

Beantown Express 2.0 6559

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

He probably doesn't as Senator but he could call out the governor, city or county officials to do so.  For some reason I guess he doesn't want to blame individuals instead blaming out of state college students creates less political damage.

My bad.  Forgot he is now the senator and not governor anymore.  

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utee94

utee94 15860

Posted
Posted

I suppose it's possible that in certain cases a cruise ship might provide a better solution than an already-empty school or hotel near an actual hospital with emergency/IC capability.

But I'm having a pretty tough time coming up with what those cases might be.

Also, people can argue about what to call this virus, and also still spend plenty of time protecting themselves, protecting their families, supporting local emergency responders, supporting local businesses, or whatever else.  Isolation and social distancing are giving us all plenty of time to do it all.  Acting like arguing over what to call it is fueling some diabolical diversion tactic is... well... almost as silly as greenspoint's crazy rantings.

 

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21154

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Casual Encounter said:

The thing I like about cruise ships, in regards to potential temporary hospitals, is they are already set up for individual rooms, multiple sources of electrical power, and can be relocated to specific areas of the country. It’s a very good option to have in your file of resources.

Hell, if that's what it comes to, use em.  Here the peninsula is closed and the waldorf closes soon. Pick a few floors out and go to town.  Most cruise ship rooms are way too small for any proper medical equipment.  

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JBJ

JBJ 3664

Posted
Posted (edited)

Cruise ships are commonly used for disaster relief.  Carnival provided housing after Katrina and Rita.

They are mobile, have multiple sources of power, more sophisticated clean air and water filters than hotels or empty munis.  Restaurants, outdoor space, etc are accessible while quarantined.

They have people employed that already source food and supplies.  These ships are floating cities moreso than floating hotels.

Edited by JBJ
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Skipper

Skipper 6196

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Hell, if that's what it comes to, use em.  Here the peninsula is closed and the waldorf closes soon. Pick a few floors out and go to town.  Most cruise ship rooms are way too small for any proper medical equipment.  

Hotels were immediately what came to mind when I heard the cruise ship nonsense as well.  Cut a deal with Marriott or Hilton or one of the big chains (lord knows there is PLENTY of inventory) to designate a specific hotel in each city as overflow and get to work getting a few floors ready.  Just makes infinitely more sense than an f'n cruise ship.

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ABSR

ABSR 5323

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, JBJ said:

Cruise ships are commonly used for disaster relief.  Carnival provided housing after Katrina and Rita.

They are mobile, have multiple sources of power, more sophisticated clean air and water filters than hotels or empty munis.  Restaurants, outdoor space, etc are accessible while quarantined.

My guess is that the original plan for Cruise Ships, or even hotels, would be to use those NOT for COVID-19 patients but to use it for other "normal" hospital type of cases, or cases needing less acute medical care.   

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Loco

Loco 3754

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, JBJ said:

Cruise ships are commonly used for disaster relief.  Carnival provided housing after Katrina and Rita.

They are mobile, have multiple sources of power, more sophisticated clean air and water filters than hotels or empty munis.  Restaurants, outdoor space, etc are accessible while quarantined.

I'd be shocked as hell if a cruise-ship room has more juice running to it than a school room or hotel room.

Sure a cruise ship makes a good alternative during a natural disaster when terrestrial infrastructure is damaged.  You'll never convince me cruise ships are the best option unless we send them to the Virgin Islands even then...

 

I just want the best outcome...

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Where are all these dead bodies hiding?

'A generation has died': Italian province struggles to bury its coronavirus dead

Coffins pile up and corpses are sealed off in homes as Bergamo’s funeral firms are overwhelmed

 

"Coffins awaiting burial are lining up in churches and the corpses of those who died at home are being kept in sealed-off rooms for days as funeral services struggle to cope in Bergamo, the Italian province hardest hit by the coronavirus pandemic.

As of Wednesday, Covid-19 had killed 2,978 across Italy, all buried or cremated without ceremony. Those who die in hospital do so alone, with their belongings left in bags beside coffins before being collected by funeral workers.

cont."

Spoiler

3266.jpg?width=620&quality=45&auto=forma

 

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Jiggy-Z

Jiggy-Z 3435

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

I didn't challenge that it originated in a wet-market, so I'm not sure what you mean. I agree the wet-markets are a problem and have an increased possibility of allowing new viruses to jump to humans. Again, I really don't know that you and I disagree on anything here. I'm not saying you can't blame China for how it handled everything. Hell, I'm saying you should. I'm just saying calling China the sole cause is misguided. Other countries have similar markets and practices that can allow new viruses to jump to humans. Our country isn't perfect in this regard either. A lot of entities contributed to this getting as bad as it appears to be, not just China. 

During all of this I have been following Dr. Michael Osterholm of CIDRAP.  The sequencing of this virus,he says, lends itself to a high probability of animal to human jump and is even able to opine on likely suspect animals.  Now that is out of the way.

CIDRAP is also following some other nastiness out there like Chronic Wasting Disease which presently is found mostly in deer and does not have the capability to jump to humans...yet. 

God help us if this ever jumps and we are not prepared for it.  But US and A would be ground zero.  So my hope is this crisis, once it settles down, will be a warning about what we need to do in the future, especially when it comes to international cooperation.

About CWD:

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a prion disease that affects several cervid species: deer, elk, reindeer, sika deer, and moose. CWD was first identified in 1967 in a captive mule deer living in a Colorado research facility. In 1981, CWD was detected for the first time in a wild cervid. Since these initial detections, CWD has been identified in 26 states and three Canadian provinces. It has also been detected in Finland, Norway, South Korea, and Sweden.

CWD is believed to be transmitted horizontally (i.e., animal-to-animal contact) through infectious bodily fluids such as saliva, urine, and feces. Once excreted into the environment, CWD prions can persist for years and withstand extremely high levels of disinfectants such as heat, radiation, and formaldehyde. CWD prions also are capable of binding to certain plants, with the ability to be transported while still remaining infectious. CWD is increasing in cervids as more animals come into contact with infectious prions, usually via direct contact with an infected cervid and its bodily fluids, although viable CWD prions in the environment can also infect animals. As more cervids become infected, the frequency of these exposures and subsequent environmental contamination grows. Evidence also suggests that vertical transmission (i.e., parent to offspring) can occur, although its overall impact on the ecology of CWD is not entirely understood at this time.

Since CWD is now an established wildlife disease in North America, proactive steps, where possible, should be taken to limit transmission of CWD among animals and reduce the potential for human exposure. Although CWD has not yet been found to cause infections in humans, numerous health agencies have taken the stance that people should not be consuming CWD-positive animals. Since 1997, the World Health Organization has recommended that agents of any prion disease should not enter the human food chain. Likewise, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Health Canada, and multiple provincial and state health and natural resources agencies recommend that people should not consume the meat of an animal found to be positive for CWD.

Given the typical ten year or longer incubation period of prion-associated conditions, improving public health measures now to prevent human exposure to CWD prions and to further understand the potential risk to humans may reduce the likelihood of an event like bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE).  

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54413

Posted
Posted (edited)

Cruise ship talk not going away.  But at least it has bumped down the traffic from "Is China to blame?"

I think I've read nearly every page in this thread, and the last four pages are the four worst.  I'm actually almost longing for someone to stumble in and claim that it's no worse than the flu.

Edited by Beau Vine
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Jiggy-Z

Jiggy-Z 3435

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, ABSR said:

My guess is that the original plan for Cruise Ships, or even hotels, would be to use those NOT for COVID-19 patients but to use it for other "normal" hospital type of cases, or cases needing less acute medical care.   

Brilliant marketing introducing a whole new generation to the joys of the leisure cruise. 

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Loco

Loco 3754

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

Cruise ship talk not going away.  But at least it has bumped down the traffic from "Is China to blame?"

I think I've read nearly every page in this thread, and the last four pages are the four worst.

Damned Spring Breakers!

spring-break-fort-lauderdale-2020-02.jpg

spring-break-fort-lauderdale-2020-04.jpg

spring-break-fort-lauderdale-2020-06.jpg

spring-break-fort-lauderdale-2020-13.jpg

spring-break-fort-lauderdale-2020-19.jpg

 

Better?

 

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Coelenterate Fuccboi

Coelenterate Fuccboi 13119

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Loco said:

You'll never convince me cruise ships are the best option unless we send them to the Virgin Islands even then...

I guess I missed the part where anyone said it was the best option. I guess we should trash all options until the best ones run out. You know, that’s how you plan for a national emergency in this country.

 

8 minutes ago, Loco said:

I’d be shocked as hell if a cruise-ship room has more juice running to it than a school room or hotel room.

 

Maybe you don’t know what multiple sources of power means. Nobody was saying there’s more juice running to a cruise ship.

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