Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[triplehorn 2,664]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Looks like Johns Hopkins site has retooled and is now reporting out at county level.

Saw that, then looked away.

[NoName 16,389]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

No it's not THE answer, but there are other nations that aren't China, that can produce manufactured goods. China is not an ally in any sense of the word.

let me update what i said to reflect this change:

Quote

if you have 2 computers side by side and one is manufactured in Southwest Asia (let's say Thailand) vs one that is the exact same specs but is 15-25% more expensive which one are most folks going to buy?

 

[VABuckeye 2,472]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

No it's not THE answer, but there are other nations that aren't China, that can produce manufactured goods. China is not an ally in any sense of the word.

Mexico comes to mind.

[Buzzrock 14,937]

A common and understandable sentiment.  It might be prudent to question, though, why our manufacturing went there in the first place. I seriously doubt there is a simple solution to this problem.

Chinese labor costs were $5.51 per hour in 2018.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, NoName said:

let me update what i said to reflect this change:

 

And I said bringing all manufacturing home isn't THE (only) answer.  

[NoName 16,389]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Looks like Johns Hopkins site has retooled and is now reporting out at county level.

cool!

 

link: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

USA:

Texas:

 

 

 

[BurntOrange&White 39,982]

Looks like Johns Hopkins site has retooled and is now reporting out at county level.

Speaking of Johns Hopkins why did Abbott seem like he was discrediting their reporting and etc yesterday?

[utee94 15,859]

16 minutes ago, NoName said:

i mean, Dell has manufacturing locations in Ireland, Brazil, China, Malaysia and the US. Not like they are only State-side. 

AFAIK most of HP's machines are manufactured in Southwest Asia?

Laptops and displays all manufactured in China.  Dell, HP, Lenovo.  Same 4 or 5 ODMs with assembly lines side by side for each brand.

[washparkhorn 9,939]

National industrial policy radically changed in the mid-70's to move us from a manufacturing nation to a service/consumer economy. That is well known, intentional and not a controversial statement of fact. 

The only question when implemented was whether it would kill the US economy eventually. In 2020, the question remains uncertain as we see a massive shock via the Coronavirus. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Now Mrs. Whiggins, in my defense, when has a man ever listened to a woman ?

Fair point. In counter I would ask you, how many men have twenty five decorative pillows on their bed when they could have simply bought a blue shed? j/k.

Thanks for the mask info @atomheartbevo appreciate your updates.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, VABuckeye said:

Mexico comes to mind.

That works in our best interests for several reasons. Create a more stable economy to the south, and it helps make that country a more stable neighbor, cheaper shipping costs, less blatant theft of intelectual property, working with a nation that doesn't regard us an their enemy (globally at least).

[Wally Fairway 5,580]

On 3/20/2020 at 8:27 PM, ChiTownDoc said:

By work and surly, you mean Stonks and Surly, correct?

#stonks suck so far today, so I'm actually doing fucking work & surly....which just pisses me off

[utee94 15,859]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

That works in our best interests for several reasons. Create a more stable economy to the south, and it helps make that country a more stable neighbor, cheaper shipping costs, less blatant theft of intelectual property, working with a nation that doesn't regard us an their enemy (globally at least).

Mexico is somewhat viable, and many American brands have manufacturing there.  Of course, the ODMs that operate in Mexico are still largely Chinese-owned, so that's not necessarily the level of "freedom" I think we're looking for...

 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 minute ago, Wally Fairway said:

#stonks suck so far today, so I'm actually doing fucking work & surly....which just pisses me off

So the tub is still emptying I guess, when does one dive in and start cornering the frozen OJ market ?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,523]

42 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Does that kind of thing prevent people from walking about for exercise.  Because if it does, I'm going to be a rule breaking mofo.  Theres no way I can sit inside all day. 

Most likely no. Shelter in place isn't an mandate that eliminates all reasons for leaving. Now if you're out walking with 10 members of your family at the park, the police may tell you to go home.  running, walking your dog, biking would all be considered ok in most cases. There is probably a rule of thumb related to your health and well-being. 

The govt has limited options in stopping people from going out. They know we need food, pharmacies, taking care of others, exercise, commute to work for essentials workers, etc.

[Sgt Hulk 13,836]

I want to give you all props. This thread is level headed full of knowledge and great discussion.  I made the poor error during my morning shitter to venture into the CR version of this thread and it was worse than watching inbreeding porn in college station.  Thank goodness the internet’s collection of idiots all remain in that one section.  Thank you all for being the voice of reason and knowledge here 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, utee94 said:

Mexico is somewhat viable, and many American brands have manufacturing there.  Of course, the ODMs that operate in Mexico are still largely Chinese-owned, so that's not necessarily the level of "freedom" I think we're looking for...

 

Yep good point, and too true.  It's such a global market now it's harder to be a "pure" manufacturing chain. This virus could be a catalyst that starts moving that dial ?

[Sgt Hulk 13,836]

After the beaches episode here in California yesterday I’ll wager that a full shutdown of them comes this week 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

That works in our best interests for several reasons. Create a more stable economy to the south, and it helps make that country a more stable neighbor, cheaper shipping costs, less blatant theft of intelectual property, working with a nation that doesn't regard us an their enemy (globally at least).

Or - you could adopt German-type protection for American industry and workers as a more American-centric approach and keep the American Consumer Machine pumping out money velocity while protecting national industrial interests. 

I see bioweapons as lethal strikes against the United States in the future - now that the Coronavirus has exposed our economic weaknesses to them. National security probably demand we shorten our supply lines and bring that manufacturing back home. 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, Sgt Hulk said:

I want to give you all props. This thread is level headed full of knowledge and great discussion.  I made the poor error during my morning shitter to venture into the CR version of this thread and it was worse than watching inbreeding porn in college station.  Thank goodness the internet’s collection of idiots all remain in that one section.  Thank you all for being the voice of reason and knowledge here 

Ummm.... I'm sorry now that you've ventured in to that cesspool, you need to self quarantine from here for at least 24 hours. 

Management appreciates your cooperation, we're all in this together.

[utee94 15,859]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yep good point, and too true.  It's such a global market now it's harder to be a "pure" manufacturing chain. This virus could be a catalyst that starts moving that dial ?

I suspect it will help move in that direction.  I'm also curious as to how the "population-density enthusiasts" for new construction are going to react to all of this.

[gmr548 16,611]

But that’s the rub. Even in nyc people are still breaking SD. I want to believe this article but it’s main premise is flawed. 

There is no re-infection. It is not genetically engineered. It behaves exactly like all other viruses and coronaviruses. Coronaviruses do not mutate near as rapidly as influenza. It will eventually mutate and become seasonal. However, it should be less virulent for several reasons: One is viruses replicate to exist so if they kill faster, their chance for existence decreases. Two is that this virus is novel to human immune systems. As we become more exposed to this virus, we will develop a better immunity to it. Three is we will develop a vaccine by the beginning of 2021. The vaccine will limit the virus' spread and virulence.

The sample size on so called reinfection is small enough, and testing (particularly early on) is inaccurate enough that it's very possible that reinfection actually means one of the test results was just wrong.

[ChiTownDoc 21,154]

6 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

#stonks suck so far today, so I'm actually doing fucking work & surly....which just pisses me off

The market just even after all that stimulus announced is a harbinger of things to come, my man.  

Edited March 23, 2020 by ChiTownDoc

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

I would support a congenial manufacturing relationship with Mexico.

Related to COVID-19 news, many universities are ramping up their online classes today. My teen is hoping the internets don't get the collywobbles.

[Hate 20,142]

3 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

I want to give you all props. This thread is level headed full of knowledge and great discussion.  I made the poor error during my morning shitter to venture into the CR version of this thread and it was worse than watching inbreeding porn in college station.  Thank goodness the internet’s collection of idiots all remain in that one section.  Thank you all for being the voice of reason and knowledge here 

[Liquor and Poker 3,659]

2 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

After the beaches episode here in California yesterday I’ll wager that a full shutdown of them comes this week 

This is why we can’t have nice things. 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, washparkhorn said:

Or - you could adopt German-type protection for American industry and workers as a more American-centric approach and keep the American Consumer Machine pumping out money velocity while protecting national industrial interests. 

I see bioweapons as lethal strikes against the United States in the future - now that the Coronavirus has exposed our economic weaknesses to them. National security probably demand we shorten our supply lines and bring that manufacturing back home. 

Yep, and that's part 2 of your last post. Will the shift from mfgring to a service economy affect our overall economy. I think we may be seeing the answer now to some degree, (with the seeming loss of control of our manufactured resources.

[ChiTownDoc 21,154]

4 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

I want to give you all props. This thread is level headed full of knowledge and great discussion.  I made the poor error during my morning shitter to venture into the CR version of this thread and it was worse than watching inbreeding porn in college station.  Thank goodness the internet’s collection of idiots all remain in that one section.  Thank you all for being the voice of reason and knowledge here 

Says a lot that there’s people who still never wander out of there.  I’m not bitching by the way.  But if you insist on politics with everything at least there’s a place for you.  Congrats?

[Liquor and Poker 3,659]

53 minutes ago, NoName said:

can't help you there. guessing it would be useful to use mask first?

here is a link to the study where this is from - can download the PDF for free here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_the_Efficacy_of_Homemade_Masks_Would_They_Protect_in_an_Influenza_Pandemic

here is the table:

here is what it says about doubling fabrics: 

the conclusion: 

  Hide contents

A protective mask may reduce the likelihood of infection, but it will not eliminate the risk, particularly when a disease has more than 1 route of transmission. Thus any mask, no matter how efficient at filtration or how good the seal, will have minimal effect if it is not used in conjunction with other preventative measures, such as isolation of infected cases, immunization, good respiratory etiquette, and regular hand hygiene. An improvised face mask should be viewed as the last possible alternative if a supply of commercial face masks is not available, irrespective of the disease against which it may be required for protection. Improvised homemade face masks may be used to help protect those who could potentially, for example, be at occupational risk from close or frequent contact with symptomatic patients. However, these masks would provide the wearers little protection from microorganisms from others persons who are infected with respiratory diseases. As a result, we would not recommend the use of homemade face masks as a method of reducing transmission of infection from aerosols

key info:

 

Searching Amazon for “tea towels”

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

2 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Says a lot that there’s people who still never wander out of there.  I’m not bitching by the way.  But if you insist on politics with everything at least there’s a place for you.  Congrats?

I like both, but like filing paperwork and locating your car keys, there is a place for everything and everything in its place. Hercule Poirot would agree.

[HenryJames 66,164]

6 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

The market just even after all that stimulus announced is a harbinger of things to come, my man.  

Capital gonna capital.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,142]

58 minutes ago, HookEm said:

This is half-way true.  You can't get re-infected with the same strain of the virus.

But... there are already two major strains, the original one from China which 30% of people have and the newer more aggressive strain that 70% of people have.  It is believed that you can catch the one strain even if you have already had the other and recovered.  No links, but it is what I have read. Would like to be wrong.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2236544-coronavirus-are-there-two-strains-and-is-one-more-deadly/

Not enough data to make that call.

[Francisco 2.0 32,424]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/23/world/coronavirus-great-empty.html

 

Quote

The Times recently sent dozens of photographers out to capture images of once-bustling public plazas, beaches, fairgrounds, restaurants, movie theaters, tourist meccas and train stations. Public spaces, as we think of them today, trace their origins back at least to the agoras of ancient Greece. Hard to translate, the word “agora” in Homer suggested “gathering.” Eventually it came to imply the square or open space at the center of a town or city, the place without which Greeks did not really regard a town or city as a town or city at all, but only as an assortment of houses and shrines.

 

Quote

Their present emptiness, a public health necessity, can conjure up dystopia, not progress, but, promisingly, it also suggests that, by heeding the experts and staying apart, we have not yet lost the capacity to come together for the common good. Covid-19 doesn’t vote along party lines, after all. These images are haunted and haunting, like stills from movies about plagues and the apocalypse, but in some ways they are hopeful.

They also remind us that beauty requires human interaction.

 

Quote

I don’t mean that buildings and fairgrounds and railway stations and temples can’t look eerily beautiful empty. Some of these sites, like many of these photographs, are works of art. I mean that empty buildings, squares and beaches are what art history textbooks, boutique hotel advertisements and glossy shelter and travel magazines tend to traffic in. Their emptiness trumpets an existence mostly divorced from human habitation and the messy thrum of daily life. They imagine an experience more akin to the wonder of bygone explorers coming upon the remains of a lost civilization.

 

Here's a few pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bschoolprof 6,271]

what does HEB look like?

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

That one dude hates his job

[VolenteHawk 495]

22 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Laptops and displays all manufactured in China.  Dell, HP, Lenovo.  Same 4 or 5 ODMs with assembly lines side by side for each brand.

Even if you moved assembly, what's the list of internal components that are manufactured anywhere other than China?  The processor and...?

 

[atomheartbevo 89,783]

2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

I keep seeing Galveston get thrown into these kinds of posts by folks. I must have missed something. I was in Galveston for 8 days including all of last week until Saturday. I’ll grant that I wasn’t on the beach, but I drove by it daily for various reasons. The weather wasn’t that great and the place was as much of a ghost town as I’ve ever seen. What are the reports/images driving the notion that Galveston was some kind of clusterfuck? There were days in which we didn’t even see another person. 

They pushed off closing down their beaches for as long as possible, until this past Thursday.  They had to have their St. Paddy’s day stuff and get in as much spring break as they could.  Granted, shitty weather impacted St Paddy’s attendance last Tuesday, going by the articles and photos posted, but they were not locking things down as quickly as they should have, and were still running decent hotel occupancy rates.  Even pitching themselves as alternatives to covid-hit areas.

For reference, Houston closed down the Rodeo on the 11th/12th.   

[dcar00 14,350]

15 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yep good point, and too true.  It's such a global market now it's harder to be a "pure" manufacturing chain. This virus could be a catalyst that starts moving that dial ?

Mexico could easily be Canada south but cheaper but they would have to militarize to the point they could actually take on the cartels seriously which unfortunately I don't think can happen unless we help them in a big way.

They could give all kinds of incentives to OEM's in the US.  The automakers did it and I think the tech guys could do it as well.

The IP stealing and the US's involvement in trying to push them to democracy as a buffer against Russia failed.   IP/Tech stealing was China's real "great leap forward"

[VABuckeye 2,472]

Houston closed the rodeo?  Fuck!

[Seger78 258]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

For reference, Houston closed down the Rodeo on the 11th/12th.   

The Rodeo is closed!? Damn

[Hate 20,142]

3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Mexico could easily be Canada south but cheaper but they would have to militarize to the point they could actually take on the cartels seriously which unfortunately I don't think can happen unless we help them in a big way.

They could give all kinds of incentives to OEM's in the US.  The automakers did it and I think the tech guys could do it as well.

The IP stealing and the US's involvement in trying to push them to democracy as a buffer against Russia failed.   IP/Tech stealing was China's real "great leap forward"

I agree with this and would gladly support US helping rid Mexico of the cartels. 

[Wally Fairway 5,580]

13 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

what does HEB look like?

It's a grocery stores with ailses of shelves, a produce department and registers by the exit.

[dcar00 14,350]

4 minutes ago, Hate said:

I agree with this and would gladly support US helping rid Mexico of the cartels. 

Mexico would have to have a leader that would be willing to take the heat for asking the US to help.  There are many smart people in Mexico but they would also need a big push in education beyond the big cities.

[triplehorn 2,664]

15 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

The sample size on so called reinfection is small enough, and testing (particularly early on) is inaccurate enough that it's very possible that reinfection actually means one of the test results was just wrong.

article from Chinese docs makes an observation that supports your take:

Spoiler

Background and aims

The outbreak of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID‐19) caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS‐CoV‐2) infection has recently spread worldwide and been declared a pandemic. We aim to describe here the various clinical presentations of this disease by examining eleven cases.

Methods

Electronic medical records of 11 patients with COVID‐19 were collected and demographics, clinical manifestations, outcomes, key laboratory results, and radiological images are discussed.

Results

The clinical course of the eleven cases demonstrated the complexity of the COVID‐19 profile with different clinical presentations. Clinical manifestations range from asymptomatic cases to patients with mild and severe symptoms, with or without pneumonia. Laboratory detection of the viral nucleic acid can yield false‐negative results, and serological testing of virus specific IgG and IgM antibodies should be used as an alternative for diagnosis. Patients with common allergic diseases did not develop distinct symptoms and severe courses. Cases with a pre‐existing condition of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or complicated with a secondary bacterial pneumonia were more severe.

Conclusion

All different clinical characteristics of COVID‐19 should be taken into consideration to identify patients that need to be in strict quarantine for the efficient containment of the pandemic.

So a false negative test may be an equal if not better explanation versus reinfection.  One thing that has been questioned is if after infection, recovery, and lasting antibody production, a large re-exposure challenge could trigger a relatively uncommon secondary immune response that can make you "sicker" than the first time around, possibly be life threatening.  There is some speculation this happened to the Wuhan "whistleblower" doc who passed away from covid.  

[Pancho 44,976]

Hidalgo press conference right now saying Houston is not doing shelter in place but it “may be” something to look at in the future.

[Liquor and Poker 3,659]

Harris County is “deciding to decide at some point” on shelter in place.  

[BurntOrange&White 39,982]

Sounds like Harris County isn’t planning to shelter in place today.


Greenspoint, you can now go back into panic mode.

[Hate 20,142]

4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Mexico would have to have a leader that would be willing to take the heat for asking the US to help.  There are many smart people in Mexico but they would also need a big push in education beyond the big cities.

Oh, I know it isn't a simple as "moving it over there", but it needs to become part of a plan.  This is the right time to do it. 

[Liquor and Poker 3,659]

Online tool for screening for testing. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,355]

I still expect them to announce it by end of the day....