Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Liquor and Poker 3,659]

So the wife is pissed as much as I’ve ever seen about the idea that Abbott might reopen schools. Her rumor mill says basically he will say one month of school starting after the first week of May. 

Assuming that has any validity, I agree with her. My office-hell, all of downtown Houston is one thing, but a public middle school is a totally different concept.   Other than sporting events my interactions with more than a few hundred people has been virtually none for decades.  I am rarely among more than 10-15 people at any time for work.  Grocery store is maybe a couple hundred in what, 20000 sq ft?

But at school my kids would circulate the halls with 2,000+ 12-14 year olds in very close quarters every time the bell rings. That seems an order of magnitude more risky.

Given that HISD has says grades are basically done (work going forward can only improve grades, not lower them) and there’s no STAAR, what’s the point?  I know some people need school for daycare and meals but can’t they just do something like that on a voluntary basis?

I think that kids going back to school before September might hurt the soccer mom voting base as well. The “cure is worse than the disease” idea does not apply to little Jaxyn and MacKenzie.

So the whole idea makes no sense to me.  

[Hate 20,122]

I've got this chart here that shows zillions will be dead at this rate

We will be Italy in 2 weeks!!!!!!!!!

[EuroHorn 3,265]

1 minute ago, Hate said:

We will be Italy in 2 weeks!!!!!!!!!

That means they’ll remove all the lane divider stripes on all roads. 

[dcar00 14,306]

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Is this bad? This seems like it could be bad. For those not clicking the link, basically says Corona has similarities to HIV in that it can attack the T-Cells. 

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3079443/coronavirus-could-target-immune-system-targeting-protective

 

But the information seems to plug in some holes as to why 80% of the people who get infected seem to shrug it off. It doesn't help identifying the underlying reasons for that, but it's another step towards confirming there seem to be some triggers afoot in regards to why some get really, really sick. 

I'm not sure I trust a chinese newspaper, even if it is as seen as the most honest and trustworthy newspaper in China. Because who knows what that means. 

so it was an alternative lifestyle bat?

[Loco 3,753]

1 minute ago, EuroHorn said:

That means they’ll remove all the lane divider stripes on all roads. 

Turned the whole place into a ZTL.  Also passed them in deaths and still climbing... Team America...  Fuck Yeah!

[Bruno Sardine 147]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

You can count on yout hands the amount of dense American cities where "living on top of each other" is an apt discription. Most of urban America is very suburban in design. And American suburbia is the most antisocial form of living.

It's not like this thing transmits wildly to someone living next door. You'd see whole apartment complexes becoming covid hot zones. 

That’s an interesting perspective. On the one hand, your impression of American suburbia does not seem positive. (“And American suburbia is the most antisocial form of living.”) On the other, at least some of what you dislike about it turns out to be, in the context of this crisis, helpful.

[SydneyCarton 48,112]

6 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

I stopped reading at China / society

Well, the study was a collaboration with US based scientists in New Jersey. They're probably fabricated too, though. 

[Sgt Hulk 13,806]

Hillsborough County in Florida institutes 9pm to 5am curfew.   Kim Jong Il laughs

Quote

 

 

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

Well, the study was a collaboration with US based scientists in New Jersey. They're probably fabricated too, though. 

[strangulation! 1,716]

7 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

so it was an alternative lifestyle bat?

fruit(y) bat

[ChiTownDoc 21,154]

1 hour ago, Loco said:

This is how you know airline traffic has cratered

 

If you sent me these pics along with some shots of the deserted Vegas strip and todays date...I'd assume shit was a LOT worse than it is. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by ChiTownDoc

[F250 28,789]

1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

I fail to see why, with appropriate guidelines, restrictions, and tracking/treating of new infections, we can't take an approach in the not too distant future to opening up more of the economy.

I agree, so what is the plan? Surely someone has a fucking plan for this by now, right?

 

[Skipper 6,140]

2 minutes ago, F250 said:

I agree, so what is the plan? Surely someone has a fucking plan for this by now, right?

 

Seriously, I haven't seen any state or city roll out anything resembling a plan yet.  Surely that exists. Or is everyone just afraid of being first.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

9 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

If you sent me these pics along with some shots of the deserted Vegas strip and todays date...I'd assume shit was a LOT worse than it is. 

I mean, monkeys running wild seems pretty bad...

[David Dennison 18,938]

1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

The tests! The tests! We've got to have more tests!

So Texas has tested and reported on 133,226 people in a state of roughly 29,000,000 for a testing rate of .46%. 

10.4% of those so far tested has proven positive in Texas. The people who have been tested are the most likely people to actually be infected, given the demographics most places in Texas required for a test in the March/early April period. 

Tests are visible on a county by county basis within the state. Many counties and cities also are posting their own dashboards. 

Can you give some background on what kind of numbers and data we need to see from here before we can be "confident of anything"? I'm curious as to what the target is for various folks that are bothered by the perceived dearth in testing. If it isn't that and it's the actual availability of testing, that would be good to know also. 

I'm not taking a position that Texas has covered itself in glory with its approach on testing. I do think we have enough to know that, frankly, not a ton of people have it here and those that do have inventory available at hospitals in order to be treated. I fail to see why, with appropriate guidelines, restrictions, and tracking/treating of new infections, we can't take an approach in the not too distant future to opening up more of the economy. Nonetheless, it's clear others don't see it that way and it would be productive to understand how the thinking on testing is tying into that. 

Part of the problem with "opening up the economy" is that a whole hell of a lot of people aren't going to want to because of anxiety and fear. They are going to stay home and not spend money even if the economy is "open" for business. A lot of the same people are going to balk at returning to work until they are convinced their co-workers have all been tested.

Opening up the economy is going to be much easier said than done.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,909]

33 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Is this bad? This seems like it could be bad. For those not clicking the link, basically says Corona has similarities to HIV in that it can attack the T-Cells. 

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3079443/coronavirus-could-target-immune-system-targeting-protective

 

But the information seems to plug in some holes as to why 80% of the people who get infected seem to shrug it off. It doesn't help identifying the underlying reasons for that, but it's another step towards confirming there seem to be some triggers afoot in regards to why some get really, really sick. 

I'm not sure I trust a chinese newspaper, even if it is as seen as the most honest and trustworthy newspaper in China. Because who knows what that means. 

What that article tells me is that the Chinese lab took SARs and modified it with AIDS and Ebola and then released it on the world.

[Eastwood 4,394]

2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

 

From a co-worker who lives an hour outside of Chattanooga: she says she sees no one in PPE where she lives, but in Chattanooga everyone is gloved and masked up. Out in the country people are getting made fun of for wearing PPE. It’s business as usual there.

I was in HEB in north central San Antonio a couple of days ago. A large chunk of the people were masked, gloved, or both but there was one lady wit her younger daughter, probably around 10, and it looked like they were getting a big laugh at any person wearing gear. Snickering, eye rolling, etc. People like that is why we have to do mandatory lock downs. I had read an article that 81% of South Korea's cases were from one person during the early stages not isolating after diagnosis. Literally all it takes is one idiot.

[dcar00 14,306]

Just now, NeverMarryAStripper said:

What that article tells me is that the Chinese lab took SARs and modified it with AIDS and Ebola and then released it on the world.

well yeah but minus the ass bleeding, at this point, which is nice..

[ChiTownDoc 21,154]

2 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

What that article tells me is that the Chinese lab took SARs and modified it with AIDS and Ebola and then released it on the world.

Friendly reminder.  I’m only half joking.  Fuck China.  

[Eastwood 4,394]

DP

Edited April 13, 2020 by Eastwood

[dcar00 14,306]

10 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

I was in HEB in north central San Antonio a couple of days ago. A large chunk of the people were masked, gloved, or both but there was one lady wit her younger daughter, probably around 10, and it looked like they were getting a big laugh at any person wearing gear. Snickering, eye rolling, etc. People like that is why we have to do mandatory lock downs. I had read an article that 81% of South Korea's cases were from one person during the early stages not isolating after diagnosis. Literally all it takes is one idiot.

well based on the consensus of this thread that we have millions of idiots in the hinterlands, and if it only takes one, I am going to declare......BALLGAME!

Edited April 13, 2020 by dcar00

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,909]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

well yeah but minus the ass bleeding, at this point, which is nice..

Maybe it's like those terrorist attacks that have the delayed bombs designed to kill all of the first responders.  They designed the virus to wait until everyone thought it was safe to come out and then it will mutant into the ass bleeding version

[F250 28,789]

5 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Seriously, I haven't seen any state or city roll out anything resembling a plan yet.  Surely that exists. Or is everyone just afraid of being first.

No idea but someone somewhere needs to provide a Phase II response. Sitting at home for an indefinite time frame isn't a solution.

If Many Worlds theory is correct, I imagine there are worlds where the U.S. Federal government is planning and coordinating a phase II response by now.

[Hate 20,122]

10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Part of the problem with "opening up the economy" is that a whole hell of a lot of people aren't going to want to because of anxiety and fear. They are going to stay home and not spend money even if the economy is "open" for business. A lot of the same people are going to balk at returning to work until they are convinced their co-workers have all been tested.

Opening up the economy is going to be much easier said than done.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I also think there are a lot of people that would be at a bar or restaurant tonight if the SIP was lifted today at 5 pm. 

Since there is nothing else to do really, I will predict the "opening" to go something like this:

1.  gloves and masks are going to be required by servers and bartenders and be optional for patrons.  Restaurants and bars will only be allowed to have 50% occupancy.

2.  employees go back to work but must wear gloves and masks.  There may also be a system in place to check temperatures daily to ensure anyone with a fever does not come into the building. 

3. large gatherings will be prevented through the fall.  Games might be played and televised (I'm not sure this can realistically happen), but fans will not be allowed to go to the games. 

4.  handshakes are no longer the accepted greeting.  I don't think the US will adopt the bow, but some other form of greeting will become the custom.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Hate

[David Dennison 18,938]

3 minutes ago, F250 said:

No idea but someone somewhere needs to provide a Phase II response. Sitting at home for an indefinite time frame isn't a solution.

If Many Worlds theory is correct, I imagine there are worlds where the U.S. Federal government is planning and coordinating a phase II response by now.

Phase II better include widespread testing of asymptomatic individuals.

[Digdogger 1,344]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Phase II better include widespread testing of asymptomatic individuals.

Yeah I’ve already called my asymptomatic friends to get ready and those who haven’t gotten it yet to stand by

[Neonmoon 38,129]

1 minute ago, Hate said:

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I also think there are a lot of people that would be at a bar or restaurant tonight if the SIP was lifted today at 5 pm. 

Since there is nothing else to do really, I will predict the "opening" to go something like this:

1.  gloves and masks are going to be required by servers and bartenders and be optional for patrons.  Restaurants and bars will only be allowed to have 50% occupancy.

2.  employees go back to work but must wear gloves and masks.  There may also be a system in place to check temperatures daily to ensure anyone with a fever does not come into the building. 

3. large gatherings will be prevented through the fall.  Games might be played and televised (I'm not sure this can realistically happen), but fans will not be allowed to go to the games. 

I predict none of these restrictions are issued by any authoritative body whatsoever 

 

 

[TKthunder2 4,992]

Quick plug to say that donations made to the Central Texas Food Bank are currently being matched up to $250k.  If you can afford it now would be a good time to support your neighbors.

https://www.centraltexasfoodbank.org

Edited April 13, 2020 by TKthunder2

[SydneyCarton 48,112]

2 minutes ago, F250 said:

No idea but someone somewhere needs to provide a Phase II response. Sitting at home for an indefinite time frame isn't a solution.

If Many Worlds theory is correct, I imagine there are worlds where the U.S. Federal government is planning and coordinating a phase II response by now.

There are worlds where that is happening. It's definitely just not this one. 

It looks like Abbot might literally be the first governor to roll out some kind of major plan to begin re-opening of society. Should be really interesting to see. As Liquor and Poker above stated would be me personal reaction to opening schools (full disclosure, wife works at a school so I'd be pissed). But I don't see how you do any measure of re-opening of schools as one of the first steps since it's childcare to many. Also, my wife's school did surveys of parents for how well they believed tele-learning to be going. Not surprisingly, 30-40% were scathing in their responses. In short, parents are still stupid and selfish. Common refrains were "I don't understand why there aren't classes every hour from 9-4 every day," etc. 

I guess it never occurred to those parents that the teachers are now at home trying to do lesson plans and teach with their own kids jumping into their lap and wreaking general havoc. 

I have no idea how any of this is going to go, but my gut says it won't be pretty. I don't think the economy will just "re-start" and I'm curious if there will be lawsuits for hazardous working environments by many people if they're forced between their job and what they perceive is the health of themselves and their families. 

[dcar00 14,306]

3 minutes ago, Digdogger said:

Yeah I’ve already called my asymptomatic friends to get ready and those who haven’t gotten it yet to stand by

can you get one of your asymptotic friends to do a blood transfusion with me when they are over it?  I'm available week of the 20th

[GabrielsHorn 2,186]

18 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Seriously, I haven't seen any state or city roll out anything resembling a plan yet.  Surely that exists. Or is everyone just afraid of being first.

It seems like most of the changes that the countries that are making changes are stuff we already do (e.g. allow construction and manufacturing jobs to come back a la Spain) or opening things that we clearly shouldn’t yet (e.g. Nordic countries reopening schools in mid-May). Right now, probably need to keep waiting until casas and deaths continue to decrease further before making the changes that really would affect a lot (re-opening restaurants and non-essential stores). 

[SydneyCarton 48,112]

6 minutes ago, Hate said:

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I also think there are a lot of people that would be at a bar or restaurant tonight if the SIP was lifted today at 5 pm. 

Since there is nothing else to do really, I will predict the "opening" to go something like this:

1.  gloves and masks are going to be required by servers and bartenders and be optional for patrons.  Restaurants and bars will only be allowed to have 50% occupancy.

2.  employees go back to work but must wear gloves and masks.  There may also be a system in place to check temperatures daily to ensure anyone with a fever does not come into the building. 

3. large gatherings will be prevented through the fall.  Games might be played and televised (I'm not sure this can realistically happen), but fans will not be allowed to go to the games. 

4.  handshakes are no longer the accepted greeting.  I don't think the US will adopt the bow, but some other form of greeting will become the custom.

It's a nice sentiment, but I'm with Neon below on this one. 

3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I predict none of these restrictions are issued by any authoritative body whatsoever 

 

 

I definitely don't see any system beings set up for daily temperature monitoring. Handshakes probably no longer the accepted greeting is about as far as I can get. I don't think restaurants are going to have to work hard to limit the capacity. And as a results, many restaurants will probably still go under. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

Seriously, I haven't seen any state or city roll out anything resembling a plan yet.  Surely that exists. Or is everyone just afraid of being first.

Thought we all volunteered Oklahoma to open up first

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

7 minutes ago, Hate said:

4.  handshakes are no longer the accepted greeting.  I don't think the US will adopt the bow, but some other form of greeting will become the custom.

[Surly Bevo 25,077]

Games might be played and televised (I'm not sure this can realistically happen), but fans will not be allowed to go to the games.  4.  handshakes are no longer the accepted greeting.  I don't think the US will adopt the bow, but some other form of greeting will become the custom.

 

 

 

 

[Hate 20,122]

2 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

 

 

 

[EuroHorn 3,265]

46 minutes ago, Loco said:

Turned the whole place into a ZTL.  Also passed them in deaths and still climbing... Team America...  Fuck Yeah!

Well we are over 5 times the population of Italy. 

[Loco 3,753]

Just now, EuroHorn said:

Well we are over 5 times the population of Italy. 

And half the quality food/wine

[dcar00 14,306]

36 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

If you sent me these pics along with some shots of the deserted Vegas strip and todays date...I'd assume shit was a LOT worse than it is. 

Greenspoint is Heston.

[Drew 2,498]

My wife works for BS&W in an office setting.  She's still working normal hours every day.

I've still been working 6 days a week at a Used Car Dealer that my family owns, because we, for some ungodly reason, are considered essential.  Guess what? No only are people still making their payments and we seem just as busy as any other time...there are STILL people looking at, and buying cars right now.

Like no one here is even the slightest bit worried.  

I understand that schools, and bars, and most office buildings are shut down.  But I still don't see the effect of any type of shut down/lock down in any way.  I'm shocked that neither my wife, or myself, have not gotten sick yet.

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

Well we are over 5 times the population of Italy. 

I thought we were taking Spain +France+UK+Germany+Italy and then comparing it to America.

[Hate 20,122]

9 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

Well we are over 5 times the population of Italy. 

If you take roughly Spain, Italy, France, Germany and Great Britain all together it roughly makes up the same population of the US. Add the deaths from those countries together and they are above 52K while the US is at 23K.  But you can't hate on the US when you use perspective. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Hate

[hayden_horn 11,362]

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

There are worlds where that is happening. It's definitely just not this one. 

It looks like Abbot might literally be the first governor to roll out some kind of major plan to begin re-opening of society. Should be really interesting to see. As Liquor and Poker above stated would be me personal reaction to opening schools (full disclosure, wife works at a school so I'd be pissed). But I don't see how you do any measure of re-opening of schools as one of the first steps since it's childcare to many. Also, my wife's school did surveys of parents for how well they believed tele-learning to be going. Not surprisingly, 30-40% were scathing in their responses. In short, parents are still stupid and selfish. Common refrains were "I don't understand why there aren't classes every hour from 9-4 every day," etc. 

I guess it never occurred to those parents that the teachers are now at home trying to do lesson plans and teach with their own kids jumping into their lap and wreaking general havoc. 

 

this is an interesting social exercise, to be honest. 

my wife is a teacher (charter, not aisd), and i have two middle school aged sons, so we get to experience both sides of the teleteaching phenomenon. part of me listens to her meeting her class online a couple of times a week, and it just doesn't seem like she's teaching much on those sessions. she's part therapist, part motivational speaker, that sort of thing. but she teaches second grade, so there's not much more she can really do. she meets with them as a class twice a week, and individually twice a week. most of the actual learning is done via exercise through an online portal.

alternately, my middle schoolers (in aisd) meet their teachers in a class session twice a week. class length varies by teacher. they get an assignment to complete by the next meeting. so school really only takes about an hour or two a day. 

my theory: our children are going to fall so far behind because they aren't learning what is necessary, or, and i lean in this direction, we are going to discover that the average school-day for our children is an anachronism, as is the expectation for the amount of homework after a full school day. i think this may be one of the biggest societal changes that results from this whole thing. there are other big things, such as how we work and operate socially for work. but ultimately, this may completely unmask how we get concepts across to students.

i wonder if we don't fundamentally shift to a college "hours" concept for middle and high school education as a result of this, assuming clear positive outcomes.

 

[EuroHorn 3,265]

Just now, Hate said:

If you take roughly Spain, Italy, France, Germany and Great Britain all together it roughly makes up the same population of the US. Add the deaths from those countries together and they are above 52K while the US is at 23K.

Throw in China and they add in 3k. Which is a joke.  Hard to believe cities like Shanghai and Guangzhou were pretty much unscathed 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

If you take roughly Spain, Italy, France, Germany and Great Britain all together it roughly makes up the same population of the US. Add the deaths from those countries together and they are above 52K while the US is at 23K.  But you can't hate on the US when you use perspective. 

Give it 2 weeks

[Loco 3,753]

4 minutes ago, Hate said:

If you take roughly Spain, Italy, France, Germany and Great Britain all together it roughly makes up the same population of the US. Add the deaths from those countries together and they are above 52K while the US is at 23K.  But you can't hate on the US when you use perspective. 

Yeah fuckin' Canada refusing to hold our beer!

[Viper 12,109]

26 minutes ago, Hate said:

4.  handshakes are no longer the accepted greeting.  I don't think the US will adopt the bow, but some other form of greeting will become the custom.

going to be awkward until that catches on

 

[HenryJames 66,133]

37 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

What that article tells me is that the Chinese lab took SARs and modified it with AIDS and Ebola and then released it on the world.

Like @blacklab did with Surly.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3,868]

1 hour ago, Liquor and Poker said:

So the wife is pissed as much as I’ve ever seen about the idea that Abbott might reopen schools. Her rumor mill says basically he will say one month of school starting after the first week of May. 

Assuming that has any validity, I agree with her. My office-hell, all of downtown Houston is one thing, but a public middle school is a totally different concept.   Other than sporting events my interactions with more than a few hundred people has been virtually none for decades.  I am rarely among more than 10-15 people at any time for work.  Grocery store is maybe a couple hundred in what, 20000 sq ft?

But at school my kids would circulate the halls with 2,000+ 12-14 year olds in very close quarters every time the bell rings. That seems an order of magnitude more risky.

Given that HISD has says grades are basically done (work going forward can only improve grades, not lower them) and there’s no STAAR, what’s the point?  I know some people need school for daycare and meals but can’t they just do something like that on a voluntary basis?

I think that kids going back to school before September might hurt the soccer mom voting base as well. The “cure is worse than the disease” idea does not apply to little Jaxyn and MacKenzie.

So the whole idea makes no sense to me.  

It will look really stupid when many/most parents keep their kids home.

Edited April 13, 2020 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[Longhorn94 2,456]

35 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Friendly reminder.  I’m only half joking.  Fuck China.  

somewhat related: took two clients to the Salt Bae guy's restaurant in NYC in February. i cant imagine doing that now. crazy shift in thinking.