Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[ABSR 5325]

17 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

That's been going around  for a while. There's a very good Youtube video (I found the source of the coronavirus) has been out there that makes just that case in a pretty matter of fact way with material right from Chinese website sources.

I think this is it.   Guy lived in China for 10 years, speaks the language and I believe married a Chinese national.   All his info is from publicly available web sites (some taken down by China after the fact) and he makes a decent case for someone in a Wuhan animal research lab having been accidentally infected and spreading the disease accidentally.

Also, here is an AP story that talks about China's initial inaction and cover up that screwed the world.

https://apnews.com/68a9e1b91de4ffc166acd6012d82c2f9

 

To reiterate - Fuck China.

[HoffaJimmy 316]

Just now, XYZ said:

After this is over, are we gonna change the way we greet (handshake)? I just don’t see that happening.

 

There will be a lot of changes. The # of people wearing masks in public is something that I never thought I would see in this country. 

[SydneyCarton 48207]

I’d like to see retail and other concepts, even restaurants, explore the concept being utilized by curbside. Want to shop? Schedule a window to hit Nordstrom. Reservations only at restaurants and ads a hard cap of 75 minutes. At least it would eliminate lines in spots as people wait to get in if you’re restricting numbers in stores. Hell, I’d probably be happy to go to H-E-B in person versus curbside I’d I souls just show up and know I can go right in and there are only 15 other folks in the store  

[Hpara759 1780]

i will be keeping my hands in my pockets for a good while....thank you very much

 

[Don Johnson 4757]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Has any of the reporting clarified if it was a CDC-type lab, or if it was a military bio-lab or something nefarious? I just don't understand the new push from the White House and state TV fox news to attach the origination of the virus to a lab. I thought the leading consensus and evidence indicated was it mutated out of the wet markets, as opposed to slipping out of a lab?

That's what I'm asking.  I'm certainly not saying it happened.  Why is it getting more traction?  And CNN's article updated today, while not reporting it, isn't exactly dismissing it either. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Don Johnson

[Skipper 6209]

17 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I think  it originated in China, it's whether it was the wet markets or a lab. I don't think out was a nefarious, bio-warfare thing. I think it was poor protocol in an immunology lab studying the coronovirus thingy.

That's right.  I haven't seen any legitimate speculation it was intentional.

[XYZ 2154]

4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Then it becomes a real economic depression. Folks won’t have jobs. People will get hungry.

That damage is already done.

[Captainant 27833]

1 minute ago, Don Johnson said:

That's what I'm asking.  Why is it getting more traction?  And CNN's article updated today, while not reporting it, isn't exactly dismissing it either. 

The article is just reporting on the fox news reporting, it's not a primary source or bringing any new information. Currently there's only a single interview that's being used to generate a bunch of headlines and move the dialogue that direction. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

15 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Too many kids, not enough time.

This thread produces a plethora of Mottos. 

[Skipper 6209]

As far as opening back up, I'll be interested to see if any state or city proposes something like a planned 2 week shut down 6 or 8 weeks out to ratchet spread back down.  It could always be lifted if not needed but if we think there is a realistic possibility of needing to shut down again once spread increases, it seems like it would be better to have businesses and individuals plan for certain dates in advance rather than have it announced only once the math deems it necessary.  

Merkel had a point that was specific to Germany obviously but really drove the point home.   With a transmission rate of 1 to 1 They are fine.   If 1.1, Germany's healthcare system would reach capacity in October.  If 1.2 it would hit capacity in July.   And if 1.3 it would reach capacity in June.   Obviously, that's not set in stone and maybe not accurate if there happens to be a much larger asymptomatic group but it's pretty crazy how tiny tweaks to the models produce such different outcomes.

 

 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

7 minutes ago, XYZ said:

That damage is already done.

[SydneyCarton 48207]

8 minutes ago, XYZ said:

That damage is already done.

I'm aware of that. The point I was making is that then it is going to become "real" to people. Right now they're getting unemployment and checks and being told to stay home. Right now the depression/recession is only real on paper. That changes when payments run out and there's no jobs to be had. That's my point, that is when it becomes "Real" for people. Sometime in June/July. 

[Brisketexan 105446]

21 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'm aware of that. The point I was making is that then it is going to become "real" to people. Right now they're getting unemployment and checks and being told to stay home. Right now the depression/recession is only real on paper. That changes when payments run out and there's no jobs to be had. That's my point, that is when it becomes "Real" for people. Sometime in June/July. 

And y'all say that I'm the doom and gloom guy.

Nope, just calling the obvious -- and the fact that the dichotomy of paths continues to be so stark (either allow the infection to spread like wildfire, or continue massive lockdowns) gives me no reason for optimism.  We have to find a middle path....and even that is going to involve a gut-punch to the economy.  There are no good options, no good choices.  Just lots of really bad ones.

[utee94 15868]

I think there are enough people that will "go back" or "go out" to ease the pain of reopening.  Every single day, on this thread alone, there are complaints about this group or that, congregating in large numbers, ignoring the shelter-in-place orders, or at least not taking them very seriously.  Tons of college kids never stopped meeting at all.  They're still out there having house parties, they just can't go out publicly.  But they would if they could.  A decent chunk of young professionals are in the same category.

 

They're young and they're not afraid for themselves.  They'll be the first ones out.  It won't solve the problem or bring back all restaurants or bars or retail shops, but it  will be the beginning.  People will slowly start going back, based on their own level of concern, anxiety, precaution, and preparedness.

 

There's no need to be doom and gloom, it's going to sort itself out, and will do so with minimal interference from the government on enforcing ongoing "distancing" guidelines.

 

And yes, we'll see other waves of this virus and its disease hit.  That was inevitable from the moment this thing landed from China.  It's just too infectious, containment wasn't ever going to be an option.  

Staying shelter-in-place until there's a vaccine is not an option, either.  So we'll open things back up, people will self-select for opting to go out based on their personal levels of concern, and eventually things will return to relatively normal.  No Great Depression, but for sure a very large recessive dip that we'll feel for the next 18 months or so.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by utee94

[utee94 15868]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And y'all say that I'm the doom and gloom guy.

Nope, just calling the obvious -- and the fact that the dichotomy of paths continues to be so stark (either allow the infection to spread like wildfire, or continue massive lockdowns) gives me no reason for optimism.  We have to find a middle path....and even that is going to involve a gut-punch to the economy.  There are no good options, no good choices.  Just lots of really bad ones.

You're not wrong.  But your attitude about it is yours to control.

Also, there's not a "dichotomy of paths" because remaining shut-down for more than a couple of months isn't really an option.  It never was.

There's only one path.  It's not going to be an easy one for sure.  But there's really only one option.

 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

24 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'm aware of that. The point I was making is that then it is going to become "real" to people. Right now they're getting unemployment and checks and being told to stay home. Right now the depression/recession is only real on paper. That changes when payments run out and there's no jobs to be had. That's my point, that is when it becomes "Real" for people. Sometime in June/July. 

It will be mixed. Some industries are going to come back slow (entertainment, sports, restaurants, builders, etc.), some faster (most manufacturing, prostitution).

There will be clear survivors and those who get hammered.

[South Austin 52632]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

It will be mixed. Some industries are going to come back slow (entertainment, sports, restaurants, builders, etc.), some faster (most manufacturing, prostitution).

There will be clear survivors and those who get hammered.

Indeed.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

When I'm good, I'm great.

[gmr548 16617]

Has any of the reporting clarified if it was a CDC-type lab, or if it was a military bio-lab or something nefarious? I just don't understand the new push from the White House and state TV fox news to attach the origination of the virus to a lab. I thought the leading consensus and evidence indicated was it mutated out of the wet markets, as opposed to slipping out of a lab?

I don't think there's been any serious debate around the natural vs bioweapon angle.

Two days ago the chairman of the joint chiefs said the weight of the evidence the Pentagon has indicates the virus is natural: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/covid-19-origin-lab-general-mark-milley

Its also been widely reported that the scientific community is certain it's not man made after having worked on it.

As for whether or came from a market or slipped out of a lab? Who knows. It's really not a huge concern right now, to be honest. The general public will probably never know for sure. Western Intel will probably never know for sure. FOX News objectively has an agenda so you kind of have to take anything they report with a grain of salt.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

[SydneyCarton 48207]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And y'all say that I'm the doom and gloom guy.

Nope, just calling the obvious -- and the fact that the dichotomy of paths continues to be so stark (either allow the infection to spread like wildfire, or continue massive lockdowns) gives me no reason for optimism.  We have to find a middle path....and even that is going to involve a gut-punch to the economy.  There are no good options, no good choices.  Just lots of really bad ones.

You try to shift doom and gloom to me, then follow up with that post, your cut and paste refrain at this point. Nice try, I guess? 
 

im stating a reality as well. The actual effects of this haven’t been felt yet by anyone except those that have the illness and the service and entertainment industries trying to stay afloat. That will change. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by SydneyCarton

[EuroHorn 3272]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

Once they say open it up, who here is going immediately to a restaurant, tossing their masks in the trash, and resuming life as before? Speaking for myself and my wife, both asthmatics, yeah not us. 
 

But what percentage of the population will go full steam ahead versus the percentage that is going to basically behave the same way until they feel safe, if they can do so financially? Is one without the other percentage enough for bars, restaurants, retail shopping to subsist? What about a lack of PPE for workers and companies? Lots of really hard questions and I haven’t seen anything resembling answers from state, local, or national leaders. I guess we’re gonna find out. We can’t stay closed much longer, but I’m not changing my behavior anytime soon. 

I think for about a month most people will continue to wear masks and social distance.  After that, I think most people will revert back to normal except you'll still see some people wearing masks

I do think you'll see some social unrest if they prolong the current environment

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by EuroHorn

[Hate 20146]

I’m not a huge fan of “big brother” type of intervention, but I’m coming around to the idea of the Bluetooth app idea. It truly only works if everyone uses it, but I would suspect a good portion of the country would. It would be nice to see if anyone infected has recently visited. That may be the best path forward, but there are too many “mug privacy” people out there. Of course, those are the same people with smartphones updating Instagram and Facebook all day long.

[utee94 15868]

Just now, Hate said:

I’m not a huge fan of “big brother” type of intervention, but I’m coming around to the idea of the Bluetooth app idea. It truly only works if everyone uses it, but I would suspect a good portion of the country would. It would be nice to see if anyone infected has recently visited. That may be the best path forward, but there are too many “mug privacy” people out there. Of course, those are the same people with smartphones updating Instagram and Facebook all day long.

The government can just have facebook and insta embed the new technology in their next update and push it to your phone.  Done and done.

(It's probably already happened)

 

 

 

 

[Murfdogg21 4432]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And y'all say that I'm the doom and gloom guy.

Nope, just calling the obvious -- and the fact that the dichotomy of paths continues to be so stark (either allow the infection to spread like wildfire, or continue massive lockdowns) gives me no reason for optimism.  We have to find a middle path....and even that is going to involve a gut-punch to the economy.  There are no good options, no good choices.  Just lots of really bad ones.

People thought I was so nuts to suggest intentionally infecting the most low risk people and allowing them to get back to work and consuming goods and services in public while forcing extreme quarantine on the olds and compromised for the rest of 2020. What else is middle ground? 

[The Dog 44162]

3 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

I think for about a month most people will continue to wear masks and social distance.  After that, I think most people will revert back to normal except you'll still see some people wearing masks

Agreed with this take. There's a lot of pent-up demand and people are going to want to indulge in the things they couldn't (dining out, go to a movie, etc.) during the isolation period. 

I also have to wonder (as a former airline guy) how smart the airlines are being about this. The current situation sucks for them, but anyone who isn't hedging fuel at these prices is nuts. 

[Moby Ric 2058]

Just saw on the tele that universities are dropping the SAT and ACT requirements for incoming students in the fall of 2021.  My daughters SAT on June 6 just got cancelled yesterday.  But told us that we had first dibs on an August or October test.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

3 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

People thought I was so nuts to suggest intentionally infecting the most low risk people and allowing them to get back to work

Well, this is pretty fucking nuts...

[EuroHorn 3272]

4 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Agreed with this take. There's a lot of pent-up demand and people are going to want to indulge in the things they couldn't (dining out, go to a movie, etc.) during the isolation period. 

I also have to wonder (as a former airline guy) how smart the airlines are being about this. The current situation sucks for them, but anyone who isn't hedging fuel at these prices is nuts. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-airlines-oil/rpt-update-1-steep-capacity-cut-leaves-airlines-with-overhedged-jet-fuel-headache-idUSL8N2BF1E8

[gmr548 16617]

People thought I was so nuts to suggest intentionally infecting the most low risk people and allowing them to get back to work and consuming goods and services in public while forcing extreme quarantine on the olds and compromised for the rest of 2020. What else is middle ground? 

You're nuts to think that would be remotely effective.

[po elvis 2080]

11 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

People thought I was so nuts to suggest intentionally infecting the most low risk people and allowing them to get back to work and consuming goods and services in public while forcing extreme quarantine on the olds and compromised for the rest of 2020. What else is middle ground? 

even if i don't die from it i don't particularly want to go through the 'worst flu of my life".

[bigup2dahorns 3343]

The PGA Tour plans to resume play June 8 with the first four events closed to the general public, according to schedule adjustments announced Thursday. (First event in Ft Worth)

[Scary Stranger 1715]

5 minutes ago, po elvis said:

even if i don't die from it i don't particularly want to go through the 'worst flu of my life".

My cousin tested positive.  Said his was no worse than a summer cold.  He is an EMT and his whole shift tested positive.

[po elvis 2080]

6 minutes ago, Scary Stranger said:

My cousin tested positive.  Said his was no worse than a summer cold.  He is an EMT and his whole shift tested positive.

well yeah, some are going to be mild cases. would rather not intentionally get infected and find out which one I get.

[RDCanecutter 26476]

1 hour ago, XYZ said:

After this is over, are we gonna change the way we greet (handshake)? I just don’t see that happening.

https://gph.is/1WZGRvR

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

8 minutes ago, Scary Stranger said:

My cousin tested positive.  Said his was no worse than a summer cold.  He is an EMT and his whole shift tested positive.

Age?  Fit? Active?  Taking ARBs or ACEIs? Vape?  Drinker?   O blood type or A?  Vegan?  Filtered water or tap?  Eye color?  Earlobe attached or hanging?
 

Without a lot more information, these are all just anecdotes- as are the “healthy 23 yo just dropped dead in the hallway” stories.  

[Scary Stranger 1715]

2 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Age?  Fit? Active?  Taking ARBs or ACEIs? Vape?  Drinker?   O blood type or A?  Vegan?  Filtered water or tap?  Eye color?  Earlobe attached or hanging?
 

Without a lot more information, these are all just anecdotes- as are the “healthy 23 yo just dropped dead in the hallway” stories.  

Oh, I know. I'm just saying that we might get lucky and not get the worst flu of our lives.  Or we could. 

[InkaUtexas 26175]

 

[Fastbreak 3996]

Singapore new cases

Monday - 328

Tuesday - 447

Wednesday -720

 

it has gotten into the massive foreign worker dormitories. 

[gmr548 16617]

We have a functioning economy, it’s just functioning at 70% of what it was 3 months ago.
The question is whether locking down to prevent the spread until a vaccine or treatment is available is worth the financial cost, and the answer is a resounding YES, simply because the alternative (opening up) would result in the same economic impact, it would just be much worse (because people will quarantine themselves once the hospitals are overrun.

Ding ding ding. The economy will not revive at the flip of a switch. If you think that, or anything close to it, you do not live in reality. Damage has already been done and there is more to come regardless of what steps are taken next. The larger death toll and strain on healthcare resources that would result from a premature end to restrictions would have a long term economic impact much greater than staying the course. And that doesn't even touch the moral/humanitarian side of the argument.

Not a chance are we locking down until 2021, and that is how long it will take to get a vaccine. 

I think people's differing definitions of "locking down" or "opening up" or whatever are driving some of those disagreements. They don't really have established definitions and mean different things based on different people's interpretations, how shutdowns have played out in different places, etc. Do I think we're all essentially sheltering in place for the next 18-24 months? No. Are we going to movies, concerts, full restaurants, anything like that? Also no.

[GopherRock 1770]

https://m.startribune.com/minnesota-s-u-mayo-ramp-up-covid-19-testing/569694402/

U of M and Mayo ready to ramp up testing to 10K of the antibody and molecular tests each. 

[Hate 20146]

Singapore new cases
Monday - 328
Tuesday - 447
Wednesday -720
 
it has gotten into the massive foreign worker dormitories. 

Update your goddamn thread!

[gmr548 16617]

Age?  Fit? Active?  Taking ARBs or ACEIs? Vape?  Drinker?   O blood type or A?  Vegan?  Filtered water or tap?  Eye color?  Earlobe attached or hanging?
 
Without a lot more information, these are all just anecdotes- as are the “healthy 23 yo just dropped dead in the hallway” stories.  

They're all just anecdotes.

[bigup2dahorns 3343]

Beer:


PORTLAND, Ore. — Portland is well-known for its beer. But have you wondered lately where all of it is going now that many of us beer drinkers are staying at home?

The PPV Inc. wastewater treatment facility in Northwest Portland is one of the unfortunate places where some of it is going.

Company vice president Adam Borgens said it all started last week with some unusual requests.

"At first you read it and it's like it, this a joke," he said.

But it was no joke. There were two requests to treat not just kegs worth of beer at the treatment facility, but tanker truck loads.

"We've probably had 15,000-20,0000 gallons of beer in the facility to be treated," Borgens said. "I wish we could have just taken it to a park and let everybody have a little fun… but unfortunately it came here for treatment, so we make sure everything is handled safely."

The beer had passed it freshness date, so getting rid of it was really the only option. It's an option Borgens expects others will be forced to choose as well.

"We knew it was something that we're going to see a trend on," he said. "So it was sad to see because we know the financial hardships for this industry...that's the tough part."

It's not just beer coming into the facility due to the coronavirus. There's also been wastewater from food manufacturers worried about COVID-19 contamination.

And while we were at the plant, a tanker truck full of what was once ice pulled in.

"We removed the ice today at the Moda Center that came in," said Borgens. "That's normal for us but it's obviously sooner than we would like to see it."

It's the waste we don't often see. The not-so-pretty result of businesses closed and seasons ended. And a reminder of just how massive of a loss it is.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, ABSR said:

I think this is it.   Guy lived in China for 10 years, speaks the language and I believe married a Chinese national.   All his info is from publicly available web sites (some taken down by China after the fact) and he makes a decent case for someone in a Wuhan animal research lab having been accidentally infected and spreading the disease accidentally.

Also, here is an AP story that talks about China's initial inaction and cover up that screwed the world.

https://apnews.com/68a9e1b91de4ffc166acd6012d82c2f9

 

To reiterate - Fuck China.

I welcome scrutiny of this video. The guy seems to be on the up, and up. Coupled with his information gathering right from Chinese websites (before and after the pandemic started taking off).  It seems like a strong candidate for patient zero, and no there didn't seem to be any nefarious reason behind their research the various  Coronaviruses.  Is it coronaviruses or Corona-vir-eye ?

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I welcome scrutiny of this video. The guy seems to be on the up, and up. Coupled with his information gathering right from Chinese websites (before and after the pandemic started taking off).  It seems like a strong candidate for patient zero, and no there didn't seem to be any nefarious reason behind their research the various  Coronaviruses.  Is it coronaviruses or Corona-vir-eye ?

can't watch right now, but did he make any mention of the US removing its clinician from that Wuhan lab? 

[RDCanecutter 26476]

4 minutes ago, bigup2dahorns said:

Beer:


PORTLAND, Ore. — Portland is well-known for its beer. But have you wondered lately where all of it is going now that many of us beer drinkers are staying at home?

The PPV Inc. wastewater treatment facility in Northwest Portland is one of the unfortunate places where some of it is going.

Company vice president Adam Borgens said it all started last week with some unusual requests.

"At first you read it and it's like it, this a joke," he said.

But it was no joke. There were two requests to treat not just kegs worth of beer at the treatment facility, but tanker truck loads.

"We've probably had 15,000-20,0000 gallons of beer in the facility to be treated," Borgens said. "I wish we could have just taken it to a park and let everybody have a little fun… but unfortunately it came here for treatment, so we make sure everything is handled safely."

The beer had passed it freshness date, so getting rid of it was really the only option. It's an option Borgens expects others will be forced to choose as well.

"We knew it was something that we're going to see a trend on," he said. "So it was sad to see because we know the financial hardships for this industry...that's the tough part."

It's not just beer coming into the facility due to the coronavirus. There's also been wastewater from food manufacturers worried about COVID-19 contamination.

And while we were at the plant, a tanker truck full of what was once ice pulled in.

"We removed the ice today at the Moda Center that came in," said Borgens. "That's normal for us but it's obviously sooner than we would like to see it."

It's the waste we don't often see. The not-so-pretty result of businesses closed and seasons ended. And a reminder of just how massive of a loss it is.

All that beer skipped the rental stage.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19159]

So, my thought is that there has to be something other than underlying conditions that makes this so much worse for some people.  I would like to see if there is a genetic marker that makes one predisposed to having this be serious.  

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

can't watch right now, but did he make any mention of the US removing its clinician from that Wuhan lab? 

I don't  remember that, but it may be in there.  It's a pretty quick watch, and is in a pretty succinct A,B,C format, not a lot of rambling.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

So, my thought is that there has to be something other than underlying conditions that makes this so much worse for some people.  I would like to see if there is a genetic marker that makes one predisposed to having this be serious.  

 

People who seem to have had it, but not suffered harsh symptoms should be number 1 on their hit parade for study. Number 2 should be those folks with no other underlying conditions that got it bad.