Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Royalfan5 2348]

For your daily livestock update, cattle runs slipped a little to about 75% of capacity, but we are expected to see about 40% run tomorrow on overtime shifts, hogs slipped to about 80%, but about a 45% run tomorrow to make up some difference. Cash values of processed meat weren't reported due to USDA tech issues. 

[Sgt Hulk 13647]

17 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I think you're on the wrong board.

Head on Back to your fellow bukkake jerkoffs 

[utee94 15745]

17 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

My wife and I both work from home. Again, I hope it's not another 6 months. I expect we can have testing and therapies in place over the next 60-90 days. But my family's safety comes first, before anything else, and certainly before going out to eat, to movies, concerts, sporting events, vacations, flying, etc.. I want to get those things open and back to normal as much as anyone else. I hope we can all come together and work toward making that a reality through mass testing, effective therapies and treatments, and masks, lots and lots of masks.

 

 

 

It's absolutely okay for you to have a different level of risk tolerance than others.  Some people will want to go out immediately.  Some people will want to wait a month.  Some people will want to wait many months.  All of that's fine.  This is a free country, after all.

Not only is it fine, but people coming back into civilization slowly, at their own pace, is necessary.  It will help slow the spread and keep the second wave curve flattened naturally, without even mandating it.

 

[Hagbard Celine 10760]

55 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Anytime you add except to something, you reduce its effectiveness.  Any travel ban would have been just as problematic without testing and mandatory quarantining of incoming US citizens and very thorough data collection.  Not ask a few questions and check their temps while they stand in a gaggle, actual viral testing upon arrival, and during their quarantine period.  Plane loads should have been isolated upon arrival to reduce contamination of other plane loads, and to reduce the tracing necessary if/when someone popped positive.  As soon as any of them popped during their quarantine period, it would need to reset the test cycle for anyone else that was on that plane with them.    

I can see International air travel becoming a "by permit only" thing.  I can also see the airlines still up a creek a year from now because of their sardine inhumane business model that relies on kettles and poors to fill the slave galleons of the sky.  Inbound connection to domestic from international is only allowed with a "clear" type certification of antibodies, immunity, vaccination, etc.  This will actually give the TSA the opportunity to fill their original mandate instead of confiscating soap and shampoo.  Thanks Richard Reid!

[Hate 20103]

Obviously, but you're on the wrong board. Politics is not allowed in here.

Remember when you rebuked Freyguy for saying “Cheeto in charge” or something similar. Yeah, me neither.

fuck off Brad!

 

[stone oak 639]

40 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Its 26.9K per CDC.

Facts aren't relevant in this thread, only panic.

[stone oak 639]

29 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

and masks, lots and lots of masks.

In case you missed it the first time...

Surgical, Cotton Masks Equally Ineffective in Blocking COVID-19 Spread, Say Investigators

Mask & Respirators

Surgical and cotton masks are both ineffective when it comes to blocking droplets of the virus SARS–CoV-2 that may be generated when somebody coughs, according to investigators with the Ulsan College of Medicine, Seoul, South Korea. Their research letter, published yesterday in the Annals of Internal Medicine, compared the 2 types of masks. Four patients coughed 5 times each into a petri dish while wearing no mask. They then coughed 5 times wearing a surgical mask, a cotton mask, and then, again, wearing no mask. The study, conducted at 2 hospitals in Seoul, found that when patients coughed into either type of mask, droplets of SARS–CoV-2 were released into the environment.

“The median viral loads after coughs without a mask, with a surgical mask, and with a cotton mask were 2.56 log copies/mL, 2.42 log copies/mL, and 1.85 log copies/mL, respectively,” the research letter states. “All swabs from the outer mask surfaces of the masks were positive for SARS–CoV-2, whereas most swabs from the inner mask surfaces were negative.”

The study did not include the N95 masks, which are in short supply these days and which infection preventionists and other healthcare workers desperately need on the frontlines of the battle against COVID-19. 

The masks were swabbed with Dacron swabs; the outer and inner surfaces of both the surgical and cotton masks. The researchers found SARS COV-2 on all surfaces. 

The results come after the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recently said that people should wear cloth masks in public to help contain the spread of the disease from asymptomatic carriers. The CDC thinks that the masks will help in situations where social distancing—staying at least 6 feet apart—is difficult to do; settings such as grocery stores and pharmacies. This represents a change in policy, where the CDC, as well as the World Health Organization (WHO), said that masks are not necessary for people who are not exhibiting symptoms. “If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection,” the WHO still says on its website.

The research letter investigators found greater contamination on the outer surface of the face masks than on the inner surfaces. 

“Although it is possible that virus particles may cross from the inner to the outer surface because of the physical pressure of swabbing, we swabbed the outer surface before the inner surface,” the research letter states. “The consistent finding of virus on the outer mask surface is unlikely to have been caused by experimental error or artifact.”

It’s possible that the aerodynamic properties of the masks may account for this. “A turbulent jet due to air leakage around the mask edge could contaminate the outer surface,” the research letter states. “Alternatively, the small aerosols of SARS–CoV-2 generated during a high-velocity cough might penetrate the masks.” 

However, the investigators say that this hypothesis works only if the coughing patient didn’t exhale large-sized SARS–CoV-2 particles. They’d be trapped in the inner mask even with a high-velocity cough. 

“These observations support the importance of hand hygiene after touching the outer surface of masks,” investigators conclude.

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/mask-respirators/surgical-cotton-masks-equally-ineffective-blocking-covid-19-spread-say-investigators

Edited April 17, 2020 by stone oak

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, stone oak said:

Facts aren't relevant in this thread, only panic.

Stop just reading Briskets posts.......

[pacman 7328]

20 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

ha.  pure chaos got us from 2.2M to 68K, 

and almost total economic shutdown 

Edited April 17, 2020 by pacman

[closetojumping 62237]

 

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Just circling back around to this horseshit - I'm not defending china or their denial of information to the global community on COVID-19. I AM advocating for keeping the discussion focused on what actually fucking matters and what we as a country can expect to have some modicum of control over. 

You're over here posting pumping up a conspiracy theory that originated from a fox fucking news interview, and posting a single video from the epoch times who's been outed for hiding their trump campaign ties before - all to downplay the maladministration of the federal response at large. Sure, you may post a sentence here or there on how "we could have done $THING better", but your pages and pages of posts in this thread are predominantly jumping down people's throats for imagined CR arguments, while at the same time posting political talking points that totally aren't political because you didn't say politics.

But back to the point - I agree that China isn't to be trusted and we can't expect them to be helpful in a crisis. So why then are we letting our goddamn government off the hook for taking away what little visibility we had into their country, ignoring intel reports from January and February that there was a pandemic ramping up, and failing to do fucking ANYTHING until their hand was forced? I get that it's not constructive in the middle of a crisis to monday morning QB a response, but when we have a moment of calm we should be talking about what we actually can hope to make a fucking difference with if/when there's another wave of infections. I don't know about you, but I don't really think much will be accomplished or learned by saying "CHINA BAD!" when we've been failing our own benchmarks on testing, PPE, and governors are re-opening beaches and states because economy.

You've done a great job building your safe space over here, and demonizing anyone who dares disagree with your mob. Have fun attacking an enemy nation-state for acting like an enemy nation-state, while ignoring our own nation's absolute failure and abdication of responsibility for anything negative. 

I've never posted something linking to Fox News or "Epoch Times". What in the fuck kind of silly bullshit are you just flinging out there now? I called you out for inserting continued defenses of China into the subject of the origin and the cover-up regarding this virus, something you've been throwing shade on in this thread for at least 3 weeks.

The "is this person a cloak room troll or aren't they" test is pretty straightforward on this site. Here's how it works in this instance:

-One poster has posted two or less times in the CR combined on both sites in over a decade. 

-The other poster has made the majority of their posts on this site in the Cloak Room. Literally the fucking majority of your existence on this site involves political posting in a shithole corner of the website where you guys circlejerk yourselves with pos-rep fests and back slaps about your certitude regarding the abject stupidity of most of the country.

Accordingly, go fuck yourself with your constant political droning. I don't like the political shit because it is fucking BORING and that's the way many others rejecting the political whining feel. We're not all of the sudden a wild pack of trumpers or whatever the fuck you dipshits namecall the guy and his supporters. I simply don't have the energy or interest to wade through all of the stupid fingerpointing and "my guy versus your guy" droning that has been happening for centuries. Current events, sports, business, funny shit, females, yes. Your political nonsense, that you insinuate or outright proliferate into every.fucking.page. on this thread? Nope. That shit is banworthy. 

And there's a whole crew of you dipshits doing it. The constant "but muh opinion on the president is important and you all need to hear about it"; and defending of the fucking CCP with obfuscations towards things like that origin story being pure myth; and telling us all how fucking stupid this country is and how fucking wonderful South Korea and Norway are is just pure, unadulterated political filth. You have been given a forum to freely go to and hammer those narratives. This isn't it.

[Hagbard Celine 10760]

52 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Need a ruling on sidewalk/trail etiquette.  I'm about ready to start tripping every runner that insists on passing only a foot or so around us.  Temp divert onto the grass or street to get past others.  You're the one open mouth huffing and puffing your viral load onto everyone, far more so than the walkers.  Yes it is outside, but get close enough and it's still a risk.

Am I being unreasonable, or are they the new bike phags?

The millenials and displaced zoomers have descended on my neighborhood in droves to camp out with mom and dad.  In the past month 18 of the 22 I've encountered while walking have displayed negative situational awareness.  You are not being unreasonable.

[Jimbaround 973]

1 hour ago, Foosters said:

If the evidence of a fact is limited to investigations by the Epoch times and random YouTube videos, then it's safe to call it a conspiracy theory until additional evidence comes out. 

I haven't been following this that closely, but what you're saying sounds like established fact. Is that the case?

Conspiracy: a secret plan by a group to do something harmful or unlawful

The theory is originated in a lab is not a fucking conspiracy.

[Brisketexan 104604]

10 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Why?  Just because?

 

Addressing the current pandemic has nothing to do with any of this.

 

Well, I mean, the one thing we know FOR SURE is that demanding that one government seek reparations from another - a geopolitical tool that hasn't been used since Versailles - is DEFINITELY not "political," because in the very next post, that same poster decried any mention of politics.

Gotta admit, I find the cognitive dissonance amusing.  NO POLITICS AT ALL!!!  NOW LOOK AT ME DEMAND UNPRECEDENTED POLITICAL ACTION AND PLACE POLITICAL BLAME!

There is no way to have a rational discussion about this issue, because the only way we can talk about any political leadership making any decisions that result in actual action and real-world effects is fawning praise*.  How in the blue fuck can we talk about how to make adjustments to come back and win this football game if we can't discuss any coaching decision that either has been made or should be made?

* Huge exception here -- you can criticize the leadership of any OTHER country or state.  Just not our own.  They can only be praised, and excused from any responsibility because see the political blame heaped on literally anyone else they can heap it onto.

Seems like this thread should just be reduced to a single point from Greenspoint saying "we're all gonna die" and CTJ saying "it's a big nothing," and then lock it up.  Anything else is fucking pointless.

[Brisketexan 104604]

6 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

and how fucking wonderful South Korea and Norway are is just pure, unadulterated political filth

There you go.

We can't even discuss what other countries have done, and the measures they have taken, discussing the actual metrics of success achieved.  Nope, that's "pure unadulterated political filth."

Yep, just pin a Greenspoint post and a CTJ post to the top, and lock it up.  We literally can't discuss anything else.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Jimbaround said:

Conspiracy: a secret plan by a group to do something harmful or unlawful

The theory is originated in a lab is not a fucking conspiracy.

Exactly, and not even a bio ware fare lab, but an immunology lab, and by accident, not a nefarious, James Bond type plot.  

Not sure why that's considered conspiracy theorist ?

[EuroHorn 3204]

6 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

 

I've never posted something linking to Fox News or "Epoch Times". What in the fuck kind of silly bullshit are you just flinging out there now? I called you out for inserting continued defenses of China into the subject of the origin and the cover-up regarding this virus, something you've been throwing shade on in this thread for at least 3 weeks.

The "is this person a cloak room troll or aren't they" test is pretty straightforward on this site. Here's how it works in this instance:

-One poster has posted two or less times in the CR combined on both sites in over a decade. 

-The other poster has made the majority of their posts on this site in the Cloak Room. Literally the fucking majority of your existence on this site involves political posting in a shithole corner of the website where you guys circlejerk yourselves with pos-rep fests and back slaps about your certitude regarding the abject stupidity of most of the country.

Accordingly, go fuck yourself with your constant political droning. I don't like the political shit because it is fucking BORING and that's the way many others rejecting the political whining feel. We're not all of the sudden a wild pack of trumpers or whatever the fuck you dipshits namecall the guy and his supporters. I simply don't have the energy or interest to wade through all of the stupid fingerpointing and "my guy versus your guy" droning that has been happening for centuries. Current events, sports, business, funny shit, females, yes. Your political nonsense, that you insinuate or outright proliferate into every.fucking.page. on this thread? Nope. That shit is banworthy. 

And there's a whole crew of you dipshits doing it. The constant "but muh opinion on the president is important and you all need to hear about it"; and defending of the fucking CCP with obfuscations towards things like that origin story being pure myth; and telling us all how fucking stupid this country is and how fucking wonderful South Korea and Norway are is just pure, unadulterated political filth. You have been given a forum to freely go to and hammer those narratives. This isn't it.

This post needs to be cut and pasted in every thread where the sad and pathetic cloak room morons continue to infest.  Lol.   

[Brisketexan 104604]

1 minute ago, EuroHorn said:

This post needs to be cut and pasted in every thread where the sad and pathetic cloak room morons continue to infest.  Lol.   

I presume you agree that we can't discuss what other countries that have seen positive outcomes have done, because that's "pure unadulterated political filth."  Good to know.

Pin the two posts and lock the thread, there's nothing else to talk about anymore.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18523]

NYT Article on obesity and Covid-19 spoilered below.

There has been a bit of chatter around here about why it's hitting some people really hard and others are asymptomatic, and it's something I'm really interested in beyond age and underlying immunosuppressed conditions. There's probably some genetic component that isn't understood at this time or most likely, a combination of factors driving the variable responses to the disease, but it appears that the Rona is hitting fat folks the hardest.

 

Quote

“Obesity is more important for hospitalization than whether you have high blood pressure or diabetes, though these often go together, and it’s more important than coronary disease or cancer or kidney disease, or even pulmonary disease,” said Dr. Leora Horwitz, the paper’s senior author and director of the Center for Healthcare Innovation and Delivery Science at NYU Langone.

Spoiler

Obesity Linked to Severe Coronavirus Disease, Especially for Younger Patients

Young adults with obesity are more likely to be hospitalized, even if they have no other health problems, studies show.

 

 

 

 

A patient arrived at Elmurst Hospital Center in Queens, N.Y., this month.Credit...Kathy Willens/Associated Press

By Roni Caryn Rabin

• April 16, 2020
• •  
  •  
  •  

 

Obesity may be one of the most important predictors of severe coronavirus illness, new studies say. It’s an alarming finding for the United States, which has one of the highest obesity rates in the world.

Though people with obesity frequently have other medical problems, the new studies point to the condition in and of itself as the most significant risk factor, after only older age, for being hospitalized with Covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus. Young adults with obesity appear to be at particular risk, studies show.

The research is preliminary, and not peer reviewed, but it buttresses anecdotal reports from doctors who say they have been struck by how many seriously ill younger patients of theirs with obesity are otherwise healthy.

No one knows why obesity makes Covid-19 worse, but hypotheses abound.

Some coronavirus patients with obesity may already have compromised respiratory function that preceded the infection. Abdominal obesity, more prominent in men, can cause compression of the diaphragm, lungs and chest capacity. Obesity is known to cause chronic, low-grade inflammation and an increase in circulating, pro-inflammatory cytokines, which may play a role in the worst Covid-19 outcomes.

 

 

Some 42 percent of American adults — nearly 80 million people — live with obesity. That is a prevalence rate far exceeding those of other countries hit hard by the coronavirus, like China and Italy.

Obesity is defined by a measure called body mass index, which is based on a formula that divides one’s weight in kilograms by the square of one’s height in meters. Someone who is 5 feet 9 inches tall and weighs 203 pounds would have a B.M.I. of 30, which is considered obese.

 

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The new findings about obesity risks are bad news for all Americans, but particularly for African-Americans and other people of color, who have higher rates of obesity and are already bearing a disproportionate burden of Covid-19 deaths. High rates of obesity are also prevalent among low-income white Americans, who may also be adversely affected, experts say.

More than half of Covid-19 deaths in the United States so far have been in New York and New Jersey, but the new findings mean the coronavirus could exact a steep toll in regions like the South and the Midwest, where obesity is more prevalent than in the Northeast.

“If obesity does turn out to be an important risk factor for younger people, and we look at the rest of the United States — where obesity rates are higher than in New York — that will be of great concern,” said Dr. Roy Gulick, chief of infectious diseases at Weill Cornell Medicine. “We may see a lot more younger people being hospitalized.”

 

 

Dr. Gulick’s review of data from the first 393 Covid-19 patients admitted to NewYork-Presbyterian/Weill Cornell Medical Center and NewYork-Presbyterian Lower Manhattan Hospital identified obesity as a risk factor for admission. He also found that among adults under the age of 54, half live with obesity, though the New York City obesity rate is only 22 percent.

 

One of the largest U.S. studies to identify obesity as a prominent risk factor analyzed data from more than 4,000 Covid-19 patients who sought care at NYU Langone Health between March 1 and April 2.

“Obesity is more important for hospitalization than whether you have high blood pressure or diabetes, though these often go together, and it’s more important than coronary disease or cancer or kidney disease, or even pulmonary disease,” said Dr. Leora Horwitz, the paper’s senior author and director of the Center for Healthcare Innovation and Delivery Science at NYU Langone.

Obesity also appears to be a factor for higher risk of death from Covid-19, though to a lesser degree, Dr. Horwitz said

She cautioned that the findings were preliminary, noted that some of the data was still incomplete and emphasized that the paper had not been peer reviewed.

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Scientists are still somewhat puzzled by the impact of obesity on the course of the disease, but Dr. Horwitz said the implications for patient care were clear.

“It means that as clinicians, we should be thinking a little more carefully about those patients with obesity when they come in — we should worry about them a little bit more,” she said.

 

 

Another NYU Langone study, which focused on patients under the age of 60, found that those with obesity were twice as likely to be hospitalized and were at even higher risk of requiring critical care. The association between obesity and more severe disease was not seen in patients over the age of 60.

The severity of the illness often comes as a surprise to younger adults, and “provides another layer of shock to this disease,” the paper’s author, Dr. Jennifer Lighter, said.

Studies highlighting the risks of obesity have been conducted in other countries as well.

Though most of the early reports from China pointed to risk factors like Type 2 diabetes and hypertension, which are common in people with obesity, scientists in Shenzhen, China, reported in The Lancet this month that Covid-19 patients with a high body mass index were at more than double the risk of severe pneumonia than those with a lower B.M.I.

Another study from China, which looked at outcomes among a group of 112 Covid-19 patients, reported that of the 17 patients who died, 15 were either overweight or obese.

More recently, a French study reported that nearly half of 124 Covid-19 patients in Lille, France, had obesity, twice the rate of a comparison group of intensive care patients hospitalized for other reasons last year. The study also reported that the need for mechanical ventilation increased with higher body weight.

At Ochsner Health, a system with 41 hospitals in Louisiana and southern Mississippi, Dr. Leo Seoane, the company’s senior vice president, said that 60 percent of patients hospitalized with Covid-19 had obesity and that obesity appeared to nearly double their risk of requiring a ventilator.

“We in the U.S. have not always identified obesity as a disease, and some people think it’s a lifestyle choice. But it’s not,” said Dr. Matthew Hutter, director of the Weight Center at Massachusetts General Hospital and president of the American Society for Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery. “It makes people sick, and we’re realizing that now.”

 

 

Conventional wisdom has traditionally explained excess weight as a simple caloric imbalance that can be addressed by eating less and exercising more. Prominent medical groups have reconsidered their approach, however, and now recognize obesity as a medical disorder caused by a complex web of underlying factors, which in turn predisposes people to other serious medical problems.

Some doctors consider obesity a marker of poor health associated with poverty, reflecting a combination of social and economic factors, from inadequate education and limited job opportunities to impoverished neighborhoods where access to healthy food, medical care and opportunities for exercise are scarce.

Obesity’s link to chronic diseases is well known, but the experience with H1N1 influenza in 2009 revealed that people with obesity are also more vulnerable to infectious diseases. Studies have also shown that they do not get the same protection from influenza vaccinations that others do.

Physicians say patients with obesity can be harder to manage in the hospital setting. They require special beds and imaging equipment, and they are harder to intubate and harder to assess when removing a ventilator.

Advocates for people with obesity say they may also delay seeking care, deterred because they have been treated poorly by health care providers in the past.

“They worry: ‘If I go to the hospital, am I going to be triaged based on my body mass index? Is the skinny person next to me going to get the ventilator, not me?’” said Dr. Donna Ryan, associate editor in chief of the journal Obesity.

Doctors in the trenches treating critically ill coronavirus patients say they expected to see old and elderly patients become acutely and critically ill, but the young patients becoming severely sick have unnerved them.

 

 

Of the 14 Covid-19 patients recently in Dr. Sanam Ahmed’s critical care unit at Mount Sinai on the Upper East Side, she said, 12 were at least 50 years old and had complex medical problems. The two younger patients, who were in their 30s, had obesity and no other diseases.

“It looks like, for them, obesity is the risk factor,” Dr. Ahmed said.

[Like the Science Times page on Facebook. | Sign up for the Science Times newsletter.]

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

17 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I presume you agree that we can't discuss what other countries that have seen positive outcomes have done, because that's "pure unadulterated political filth."  Good to know.

Pin the two posts and lock the thread, there's nothing else to talk about anymore.

The point went right over your head or you're just being willfully ignorant.  Comparing what other countries did to what the US response was, and  is perfectly fine, and has been part of this thread.  We acted too slowly at first (bad tests, lack of coordination, inaction)  just as a shit load of other countries did.

Dr. Faucci was saying in March to just go about your business............. March !  But you think we should have shut down in January. 

Trying to paint the picture that the US was the outlier in acting too slowly is BS, and has been a political smoke screen.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[Telegraph_it 3354]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I presume you agree that we can't discuss what other countries that have seen positive outcomes have done, because that's "pure unadulterated political filth."  Good to know.

Pin the two posts and lock the thread, there's nothing else to talk about anymore.

[Foosters 17731]

13 minutes ago, Jimbaround said:

Conspiracy: a secret plan by a group to do something harmful or unlawful

The theory is originated in a lab is not a fucking conspiracy.

Fair enough. How's "unsubstantiated rumor" work for you?

[closetojumping 62237]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

There you go.

We can't even discuss what other countries have done, and the measures they have taken, discussing the actual metrics of success achieved.  Nope, that's "pure unadulterated political filth."

Yep, just pin a Greenspoint post and a CTJ post to the top, and lock it up.  We literally can't discuss anything else.

You are the ringleader of the bullshit, so spare me the pigeonholing attempt as you bawl all over every page on this thread and insinuate your political agenda into the discussion.

You call out Norway, then you pleasantly ignore the majority of Europe with your plaintive, wistful whines about "testing, my God the testing!". I called you out on your bullshit take regarding this two weeks ago and you disappeared without responding. 

Iceland, Estonia, and Norway handled testing great from the jump. Germany got on board after a stumble. The rest of Scandinavia besides Norway shit themselves. UK, Netherlands, Italy, Spain, Greece, France - all fucked it up and several still are fucking it up. 

In spots, and at the beginning, theUS fucked it up. It's been agreed to and well-covered on this thread. Your worldview and agenda push here that we're the lonely morons and completely fucked it all up is self-serving, politically-oriented tripe. 

[UT_OB1 2200]

47 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Que le foock?  

Yeah, deserved that. Still want to go to the beach though. 

[stone oak 639]

24 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Head on Back to your fellow bukkake jerkoffs 

[EuroHorn 3204]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I presume you agree that we can't discuss what other countries that have seen positive outcomes have done, because that's "pure unadulterated political filth."  Good to know.

Pin the two posts and lock the thread, there's nothing else to talk about anymore.

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The point went right over your head or you're just being willfully ignorant.  Comparing what other countries did to what the US response was is perfectly fine, and part of this thread.  We acted too slowly at first just as most other countries did.  

Trying to paint the picture that the US was the outlier in acting too slowly is BS, and has been a political screen.

Yep...

[closetojumping 62237]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I presume you agree that we can't discuss what other countries that have seen positive outcomes have done, because that's "pure unadulterated political filth."  Good to know.

Pin the two posts and lock the thread, there's nothing else to talk about anymore.

 

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The point went right over your head or you're just being willfully ignorant.  Comparing what other countries did to what the US response was is perfectly fine, and part of this thread.  We acted too slowly at first just as most other countries did.  

Trying to paint the picture that the US was the outlier in acting too slowly is BS, and has been a political screen.

He's parsing points out of context to show us all what a smart and sophisticated lawyer he can be. It's typical bullshit, but a tried and true approach when facing the ignorant masses, which is what every post he makes presumes he's dealing with on any subject. 

[Brisketexan 104604]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Trying to paint the picture that the US was the outlier in acting too slowly is BS, and has been a political screen.

But with respect to implementing wide-scale testing, compared to those three relative success stories, we're an outlier (along with other countries with poor testing availability).

I mean, it's literally a fact -- Norway, Germany, and South Korea rapidly ramped up and administered wide-scale testing, and it's helped them manage their infections much better.  But, that's "political," because one can extrapolate some criticism of the greatest nation in the world, which can do no wrong, and is only in trouble because of the Chicoms, and we should be seeking reparations from their government.....for fuck's sake.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Fair enough. How's "unsubstantiated rumor" work for you?

Point them out please.

There are 2 pretty strong theories about where this came from. China being the epicenter is not being disputed. Did it come from wet markets or an accidental release from a lab.  Those are the 2 front runners right now.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

23 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, I mean, the one thing we know FOR SURE is that demanding that one government seek reparations from another - a geopolitical tool that hasn't been used since Versailles - is DEFINITELY not "political," because in the very next post, that same poster decried any mention of politics.

Gotta admit, I find the cognitive dissonance amusing.  NO POLITICS AT ALL!!!  NOW LOOK AT ME DEMAND UNPRECEDENTED POLITICAL ACTION AND PLACE POLITICAL BLAME!

There is no way to have a rational discussion about this issue, because the only way we can talk about any political leadership making any decisions that result in actual action and real-world effects is fawning praise*.  How in the blue fuck can we talk about how to make adjustments to come back and win this football game if we can't discuss any coaching decision that either has been made or should be made?

* Huge exception here -- you can criticize the leadership of any OTHER country or state.  Just not our own.  They can only be praised, and excused from any responsibility because see the political blame heaped on literally anyone else they can heap it onto.

Seems like this thread should just be reduced to a single point from Greenspoint saying "we're all gonna die" and CTJ saying "it's a big nothing," and then lock it up.  Anything else is fucking pointless.

I wasn't demanding a discussion of reparations. I was merely pointing out that the source of the virus is germane to many topics.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Iconoclast Texan

[Brisketexan 104604]

Just now, Iconoclast Texan said:

I was demanding a discussion of reparations. I was merely pointing out that the source of the virus is germane to many topics.

You literally want to discuss reparations from one country to another.  And then you scream "no politics."

Fucking rich....but OH so on-brand for you.

[David Dennison 18656]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The point went right over your head or you're just being willfully ignorant.  Comparing what other countries did to what the US response was is perfectly fine, and part of this thread.  We acted too slowly at first just as most other countries did.  

Trying to paint the picture that the US was the outlier in acting too slowly is BS, and has been a political screen.

Indeed.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But with respect to implementing wide-scale testing, compared to those three relative success stories, we're an outlier (along with other countries with poor testing availability).

I mean, it's literally a fact -- Norway, Germany, and South Korea rapidly ramped up and administered wide-scale testing, and it's helped them manage their infections much better.  But, that's "political," because one can extrapolate some criticism of the greatest nation in the world, which can do no wrong, and is only in trouble because of the Chicoms, and we should be seeking reparations from their government.....for fuck's sake.

No it's not stop conflating issues, you're not in a court room.  I believe most people acknowledge testing was slow. It was also delayed because the first CDC tests were bad, correct ?  Most countries were behind this from the start, the US was as well.  None of that is political. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[David Dennison 18656]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

No it's not stop conflating issues, you're not in a court room.  I believe most people acknowledge testing was slow. It was also bad because the first CDC tests were bad, correct ?  Most countries were behind this from the start, the US was as well.  None of that is political. 

Testing WAS slow?

[GHOSTUSER 361]

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You literally want to discuss reparations from one country to another.  And then you scream "no politics."

Fucking rich....but OH so on-brand for you.

Wrong. He said why does it matter about the source of this plague. I responded that it mattered for several issues. IF I discussed reparations that would be CR. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Iconoclast Texan

[closetojumping 62237]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

But with respect to implementing wide-scale testing, compared to those three relative success stories, we're an outlier (along with other countries with poor testing availability).

I mean, it's literally a fact -- Norway, Germany, and South Korea rapidly ramped up and administered wide-scale testing, and it's helped them manage their infections much better.  But, that's "political," because one can extrapolate some criticism of the greatest nation in the world, which can do no wrong, and is only in trouble because of the Chicoms, and we should be seeking reparations from their government.....for fuck's sake.

Throw in Estonia and Iceland too. Let's discuss the 5-6 nations that got step one correct, then act like the United States is the stupidest place on earth for whiffing on that piece. Right? It's all of you've really got that suits your narrative, so spit and polish that until it shines.

You knew what my post was addressing, but you're attempting to pull at a little thread of it to sell your point that we've all gone crazy or are too stupid to understand the big picture. The big picture, of course, you're the preacher in the pulpit for and we just need to sit our heads back and nod and shout "amen, brother!" as you lament the inanity of man, the futility of it all, and the testing, my God the testing!

[Foosters 17731]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Point them out please.

There are 2 pretty strong theories about where this came from. China being the epicenter is not being disputed. Did it come from wet markets or an accidental release from a lab.  Those are the 2 front runners right now.

Point out the lack of evidence?

Look, I'm not saying it didn't come from a lab

 Only that at this point there has been no evidence that is has. The entities pushing the lab theory, as far as I'm concerned, have an agenda to do so. Just as China would have an agenda to hide that fact.

Theories are great. Theories without proof should not guide the discussion and should be dismissed until evidence can be provided.

[bullzak 411]

As far as timing of the shutdown remember that the NBA, which probably has 250,000 points of contact on a given night, only shut down on March 11. 

If the country had tried to shut down in early Feb because 100 people died of a cough people would have lost their minds, and more importantly blown off the later more factually supported shutdown. 

And this isn't like Chernobyl. Those bastards knew after decades of research that radiation was deadly. They didn't give a shit. 

We didn't know enough about this and had to learn some really hard lessons. 

[Brisketexan 104604]

2 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Throw in Estonia and Iceland too. Let's discuss the 5-6 nations that got step one correct, then act like the United States is the stupidest place on earth for whiffing on that piece. Right? It's all of you've really got that suits your narrative, so spit and polish that until it shines.

You knew what my post was addressing, but you're attempting to pull at a little thread of it to sell your point that we've all gone crazy or are too stupid to understand the big picture. The big picture, of course, you're the preacher in the pulpit for and we just need to sit our heads back and nod and shout "amen, brother!" as you lament the inanity of man, the futility of it all, and the testing, my God the testing!

No, the stupidity is that 1) we've got strong examples of a path that works (yep, it involves having widespread testing) and 2) it sure looks like we still haven't materially advanced towards following that path.  That sure seems stupid to me.  I mean, when I look to my right and left, and see folks who have figured out how to work the problem so that they are in a much less shitty place than I am, and I still fail to try to copy what they're doing, I'd think that was stupidity on my part, but who knows, maybe I'm a secret genius who has a secret plan that will make those guys look like suckers.  But I doubt it.

What's done is done.  What still ISN'T being done is all we can focus on now.  But, you know, I won't talk about that.  Because it might be taken as criticism of leadership that hasn't worked towards that goal up till now.

I don't give a fuck if you shout amen.  I don't give a fuck about you at all, actually.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 hours ago, Foosters said:

Point out the lack of evidence?

Look, I'm not saying it didn't come from a lab

 Only that at this point there has been no evidence that is has. The entities pushing the lab theory, as far as I'm concerned, have an agenda to do so. Just as China would have an agenda to hide that fact.

Theories are great. Theories without proof should not guide the discussion and should be dismissed until evidence can be provided.

The use of "unsubstantiated rumor" has a quality I'm sure you were intending. Possible theory is what most people are going on here. Presented evidence that leads folks to take that theory or other theories seriously, but thanks for playing.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[GringoSalado 1651]

11 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Point out the lack of evidence?

Look, I'm not saying it didn't come from a lab

 Only that at this point there has been no evidence that is has. The entities pushing the lab theory, as far as I'm concerned, have an agenda to do so. Just as China would have an agenda to hide that fact.

Theories are great. Theories without proof should not guide the discussion and should be dismissed until evidence can be provided.

What "entities" are "pushing" the lab theory?

 

I mean, I've posted about it, but I'm not "pushing" it. I guess you could say I'm an "entity" though....

 

edit: forgot to ask, so what is my agenda? IMO it is to find out the truth about where this came from. Your agenda seems to differ somewhat.

Edited April 17, 2020 by GringoSalado

[stone oak 639]

This thread:

[DDD Dad 14251]

32 minutes ago, Jimbaround said:

Conspiracy: a secret plan by a group to do something harmful or unlawful

The theory is originated in a lab is not a fucking conspiracy.

Actually the theory is that the virus was naturally occurring but had been taken to a lab to develop means to control it.  Then, the theory continues that due to poor safety protocols the virus was able to escape the laboratory into the general population.

It's not a "conspiracy" theory, but the means by which this theory is spreading (not unlike a virus) follows the same sort of means as traditional "conspiracy theories"  FW: FW: FW: FW: Facebook.

Also, the original source of the outbreak remains irrelevant to the ongoing news about how we are to combat it and prevent our medical community from being overrun while we search for a cure.  Likewise there is no indication that searching for its origins will in any way enhance treatment protocols or development of a vaccine.

So the only reason I see for continuing this discussion is to lay blame on someone else and divert attention from more pressing issues.

[DDD Dad 14251]

14 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Wrong. He said why does it matter about the source of this plague. I responded that it mattered for several issues. IF I discussed reparations that would be CR. 

And yet you still didn't provide an answer.  

[rpspeed 1351]

This thread moves pretty quick, has this been discussed?
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/antibody-research-coronavirus-widespread/story?id=70206121

Antibody research indicates coronavirus may be far more widespread than known

Quote

“Our findings suggest that there is somewhere between 50- and 80-fold more infections in our county than what’s known by the number of cases than are reported by our department of public health," Dr. Eran Bendavid, the associate professor of medicine at Stanford University who led the study, said in an interview with ABC News' Diane Sawyer.

 

[Brisketexan 104604]

Just now, DDD Dad said:

Also, the original source of the outbreak remains irrelevant to the ongoing news about how we are to combat it and prevent our medical community from being overrun while we search for a cure.  Likewise there is no indication that searching for its origins will in any way enhance treatment protocols or development of a vaccine.

So the only reason I see for continuing this discussion is to lay blame on someone else and divert attention from more pressing issues.

[closetojumping 62237]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, the stupidity is that 1) we've got strong examples of a path that works (yep, it involves having widespread testing) and 2) it sure looks like we still haven't materially advanced towards following that path.  That sure seems stupid to me.  I mean, when I look to my right and left, and see folks who have figured out how to work the problem so that they are in a much less shitty place than I am, and I still fail to try to copy what they're doing, I'd think that was stupidity on my part, but who knows, maybe I'm a secret genius who has a secret plan that will make those guys look like suckers.  But I doubt it.

What's done is done.  What still ISN'T being done is all we can focus on now.  But, you know, I won't talk about that.  Because it might be taken as criticism of leadership that hasn't worked towards that goal up till now.

I don't give a fuck if you shout amen.  I don't give a fuck about you at all, actually.

Spare me your indifference towards me as a human. That was a given already. If we're not all singing your fatalistic chorus, we're probably the fuck-ups that are driving you and this planet to the brink in the first place.

Beyond that, your premise that testing is a problem right now is laughable. There isn't a person posting on this thread or reading that can't go get tested today. Now, that doesn't account for the view that we should all be forced to line-up in town square and have our comrades test each one of us weekly for sake of the greater good, I grant that.

In any event, we rationally discussed the kind of testing and values of such in this thread earlier this week. I think you missed it in between posts about how fucking terrible our country is.

[GringoSalado 1651]

1 minute ago, DDD Dad said:

It's not a "conspiracy" theory, but the means by which this theory is spreading (not unlike a virus) follows the same sort of means as traditional "conspiracy theories"  FW: FW: FW: FW: Facebook.

In addition to ignoring Cable News (I highly recommend it), I also never rely on Facebook for any real information beyond birthdays & etc. (also highly recommended). My info on this theory is all from this thread where it has been noted that 

1) bats that carry the virus are not trafficked in the Wet Market, and not found in the region

2) except for inside the Wuhan virology lab

 

That seems like a pretty solid coincidence, and is all I'm going off of. Not Facebook. Not Fox. I only read surl.

[GabrielsHorn 2142]

2 minutes ago, rpspeed said:

This thread moves pretty quick, has this been discussed?
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/antibody-research-coronavirus-widespread/story?id=70206121

Antibody research indicates coronavirus may be far more widespread than known

 

Hey, actual things to discuss instead of shit flinging!

itll be interesting to see how widespread it actually was spread based on that testing as it seems like most states are pushing for these quick tests to figure out when to re-open. We’ll hopefully have more data on this in the US than previous viruses, which should really help recalibrate our models for both this outbreak as well as future ones. 

[justhookit 4180]

I don’t care if we have the capability to test every single person in the world right now. If people won’t stay the fuck at home when they feel sick, and healthy people stay away from sick people, and self quarantine if they have been exposed to a sick person, then it doesn’t matter. And that ignores the slow incubation/onset of symptoms. The fact is this virus is going to be around and we need treatments and then a vaccine. Until that happens we are pretty much stuck with dealing with it as we are now. 

So someone on here who is yelling about testing please explain how fixing that to even “perfect” fixes anything. You don’t have 1 or 5 or 30 idiots in your neighborhood who either won’t get tested or won’t stay home if they are sick or won’t stay home if someone in their house is sick?

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by justhookit

[GopherRock 1765]

Bad news out of SW MN: First confirmed case at the JBS pork plant in Worthington. Seems like family members work both here and in the shuttered plant in Sioux Falls. 

Gov. Walz seems to want to use that plant as a test case for the kind of intense testing regimen that will be required to not just reopen things but give confidence to go out.