Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Treefidy 1463]

10 minutes ago, Bevo said:

From what I understand, this use to be true. However, now you can fly in an A330 by yourself for the price of a tank of gas. Even Warren Buffet likes a good deal.

I was actually thinking about that, Singapore or Emirates cabin suites are nice for a long hop, but historically that was offset by several hours wasted at TSA and customs.  Guess that won't be the case for a while. 

Mexico has some of the worst customs waits I have ever seen (holy shit Guadalajara), the commercial arrivals looks like the bus station in India.  Probably hours just figuring out what line they are in. The  private arrival is about 100 feet to the left, same number of desks.  Pick one, they are all open.  

On return to US you do have to make an extra stop at the first airport in route to clear customs.  But you're spending 5 minutes at say Laredo Intl. then return to your FBO instead of baggage check and customs at like DFW. 

[BurntOrange&White 39933]

Lol, it's all over the news  you stupid fucking POS.  Nursing homes are NOT getting tested.  You had fatass JB Pritzker say they have task forces hitting hot nursing homes here in IL to deliver PPE and supplement staff.  It's total BS...and yes you dumb motherfucker we do have one of the largest groups in the country that run postacute networks for hospitals.  Several people on here know me in real life including the Bobs and others I've worked with during the crisis.
So you went from 'third hand' to just flat out calling someone with first hand knowledge a liar?  I am out there working in this shit 6 days a week.  Good to know there's complete pieces of shit like you out there who think it's all fine and we're just whining.  Again, FUCK YOU. 

CTJ is a psychotic narcissist who can’t help but be right about everything even when he’s in over his head. Dude is a fucking meme at this point.

[aggie08 21504]

10 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

I have no doubt this is happening.  the level to which is unknown.

I know that this is the anecdotes thread, but there is just no way that this is happening on any significant scale. The levels of corruption that this would need to make it through to coerce coroners to intentionally mislabel symptomless patients would be impossible to hide. After the dust settles, sure, I can see some liberties being taken on which way to push the "maybe" pile towards, but that's a far cry from outright forgery.

[atomheartbevo 89670]

26 minutes ago, bullzak said:

Personally I think we are shut down until we get past Memorial Weekend in Chicago. Want to at least shut down large scale get togethers until June.

They definitely need to discourage large gatherings Memorial Day weekend, otherwise June will blow up and that could take us into July 4th.   

[Js1 85338]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I know that this is the anecdotes thread, but there is just no way that this is happening on any significant scale. The levels of corruption that this would need to make it through to coerce coroners to intentionally mislabel symptomless patients would be impossible to hide. After the dust settles, sure, I can see some liberties being taken on which way to push the "maybe" pile towards, but that's a far cry from outright forgery.

but it was on Facebook! 

 

[dcar00 14210]

3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I know that this is the anecdotes thread, but there is just no way that this is happening on any significant scale. The levels of corruption that this would need to make it through to coerce coroners to intentionally mislabel symptomless patients would be impossible to hide. After the dust settles, sure, I can see some liberties being taken on which way to push the "maybe" pile towards, but that's a far cry from outright forgery.

so we agree.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I know that this is the anecdotes thread, but there is just no way that this is happening on any significant scale. The levels of corruption that this would need to make it through to coerce coroners to intentionally mislabel symptomless patients would be impossible to hide. After the dust settles, sure, I can see some liberties being taken on which way to push the "maybe" pile towards, but that's a far cry from outright forgery.

Agree, I didn't think outright forgery was even being suggested.  It's just a shitload of unknowns out there and guessing on what bucket to place what case.  And while some may be pushing numbers one way, there's no way it's a system wide thing. 

[Bevo 13577]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

They definitely need to discourage large gatherings Memorial Day weekend, otherwise June will blow up and that could take us into July 4th.   

I agree with this, but... We need to have a slow roll of the disease and the summertime is the easiest time to have this happen. If a huge percentage of the population is negative this coming winter, we will have another breakout. Speaking as a citizen, I would rather get this thing over with through a slow roll over the summer rather than shutdown everything now, opening it up in the fall and having other flareups like New York this coming winter.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

4 hours ago, Message Board User said:

 

Need more posts like this.  There's a LOT of these unsung heroes out there choosing to help however the hell they can.  Thanks for posting. 

[dcar00 14210]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Agree, I didn't think outright forgery was even being suggested.  It's just a shitload of unknowns out there and guessing on what bucket to place what case.  And while some may be pushing numbers one way, there's no way it's a system wide thing. 

not forgery in any large scale at all.

here is what I can see happening.  put maybe covid down due to a symptom.  increase the maybe bucket then later that number gets used to either a) include all in the death toll or b) a percentage gets estimated on that. larger the maybe bucket the more there are.  more estimations on estimations that only go up not down.

[dcar00 14210]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Need more posts like this.  There's a LOT of these unsung heroes out there choosing to help however the hell they can.  Thanks for posting. 

Spain was a complete shitshow for a while.  that was hazard duty, right there.  good on that guy.

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[Mach 1 1677]

32 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

And I mean both testing...antibody testing more important imo to letting people out.  It's very shitty right now.  You have sleezy private labs offering a lot of testing and results are dubious.  Some have a ton of positives because any type of coronavirus antibody is triggering tests.  Others really don't have proper sensitivity so even patients we confirmed multiple times with swabs are coming up negative for antibodies.  

 

I took the anti body test on Friday.  Negative.  This after living for two weeks in close quarantine with a wife that tested positive.  Doc is also surprised.  Sister in Law (who spent a lot of time with my positive wife) goes in after me and also comes back Negative.  Doc tells my SIL fuck it, he's not going to give any more of this particular anti body test because he doesn't trust the results.

So we have that going for us.  Testing that isn't trusted by front line doctors.  This whole thing is a clusterfuck. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10235]

3 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

I took the anti body test on Friday.  Negative.  This after living for two weeks in close quarantine with a wife that tested positive.  Doc is also surprised.  Sister in Law (who spent a lot of time with my positive wife) goes in after me and also comes back Negative.  Doc tells my SIL fuck it, he's not going to give any more of this particular anti body test because he doesn't trust the results.

So we have that going for us.  Testing that isn't trusted by front line doctors.  This whole thing is a clusterfuck. 

Agreed, seems like since day one the testing has been inconclusive to downright wrong. I don't know that testing more at this point would change anything. We need "better" tests before looking to expand the crappy ones we got.

[dcar00 14210]

6 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

I took the anti body test on Friday.  Negative.  This after living for two weeks in close quarantine with a wife that tested positive.  Doc is also surprised.  Sister in Law (who spent a lot of time with my positive wife) goes in after me and also comes back Negative.  Doc tells my SIL fuck it, he's not going to give any more of this particular anti body test because he doesn't trust the results.

So we have that going for us.  Testing that isn't trusted by front line doctors.  This whole thing is a clusterfuck. 

hmm. maybe the first positive was wrong?  there are multiple situations told by folks(mainly celebs) of someone being positive but family not getting it.

[C-Man 27228]

6 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

I took the anti body test on Friday.  Negative.  This after living for two weeks in close quarantine with a wife that tested positive.  Doc is also surprised.  Sister in Law (who spent a lot of time with my positive wife) goes in after me and also comes back Negative.  Doc tells my SIL fuck it, he's not going to give any more of this particular anti body test because he doesn't trust the results.

So we have that going for us.  Testing that isn't trusted by front line doctors.  This whole thing is a clusterfuck. 

So what are the opinions on the FDA-approved antibody tests? Are those thought to be accurate? Heard something late last week that said there were dozens of antibody tests out there and only a couple are FDA-approved. A good friend of mine is one of the main doctors at St Luke's in Houston and he said everybody should have readily-available, FDA-approved antibody tests in the next month.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

27 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I know that this is the anecdotes thread, but there is just no way that this is happening on any significant scale. The levels of corruption that this would need to make it through to coerce coroners to intentionally mislabel symptomless patients would be impossible to hide. After the dust settles, sure, I can see some liberties being taken on which way to push the "maybe" pile towards, but that's a far cry from outright forgery.

Coroners don't have anything to do with assigning cause of death for admitted hospital patients, do they?  Isn't it a doctor?

[Mach 1 1677]

8 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

hmm. maybe the first positive was wrong?  there are multiple situations told by folks(mainly celebs) of someone being positive but family not getting it.

I guess it's possible.  But she was in NYC for a week in early March when the thing exploded, and she had slight flu like symptoms.

My main point is doctors not trusting the anti body tests (also noted by ChiTown above) that leaves us exactly at square one.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Mach 1

[Modessit 5601]

Seems to be a thing going around. My wife’s dingbat aunt in Oklahoma shared something on Facebook about Joe Diffie. It was a shared post by a “friend” of Diffie who said his family was upset COVID was the COD on death certificate. Went on to say it isn’t what caused his death and the medical people were doing to increase the death numbers to up federal funding. Sounds like they’re worded basically the same.

Except mine was via telephone and not FB.

[dcar00 14210]

4 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

I guess it's possible.  But she was in NYC for a week in early March when the thing exploded, and she had slight flu like symptoms.

My main point is doctors not trusting the tests, that leaves us exactly at square one.

well I would hope he'd still test.  Its like he's saying that because of one situation, it is impossible for someone to have it and immediate family members not have it. 

ChiTownDoc had that exact situation I think.  Maybe ChitownDoc isn't really immune and doesn't have the anitbodies.

[dcar00 14210]

9 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Coroners don't have anything to do with assigning cause of death for admitted hospital patients, do they?  Isn't it a doctor?

not sure how that works to be hones  as a complete guess it is a coroner or someone in the office that has to officially sign but in a hospital sick case, not some type of trauma, they probably just take the doctors word for it unless the family protests.

[BradInATX 9208]

[mention=2289]ChiTownDoc[/mention] do you actually trust the results of your antibody test still? Seems like there's some inherent danger of having people test false positive.

And please stop summoning CTJ everyone. The stretches of pages where he's getting enough attention at home and isn't seeking it here by hijacking this thread are the best stretches of good discussion and information. Every time someone puts up the Batman signal the thread falls apart for pages at a time. Like a shitty, ignorant gremlin that says bro a lot.

 

 

 

 

[GringoSalado 1651]

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-genetic-barcode-rapidly-revealing-covid-.html

Genetic tracing 'barcode' is rapidly revealing COVID-19's journey and evolution

opening graph

Spoiler

Drexel University researchers have reported a method to quickly identify and label mutated versions of the virus that causes COVID-19. Their preliminary analysis, using information from a global database of genetic information gleaned from coronavirus testing, suggests that there are at least six to 10 slightly different versions of the virus infecting people in America, some of which are either the same as, or have subsequently evolved from, strains directly from Asia, while others are the same as those found in Europe.

my money quote is the last graph

Spoiler

"We're seeing that the two parts of the virus that seem not to be mutating are the ones responsible for its entry into healthy cells and packaging its RNA," Rosen said. "Both of these are important targets for understanding the body's immune response, identifying antiviral therapeutics and designing vaccines."

 

 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

@ChiTownDoc do you actually trust the results of your antibody test still? Seems like there's some inherent danger of having people test false positive.

And please stop summoning CTJ everyone. The stretches of pages where he's getting enough attention at home and isn't seeking it here by hijacking this thread are the best stretches of good discussion and information. Every time someone puts up the Batman symbol the thread falls apart for pages at a time. Like a shitty, ignorant gremlin that says bro a lot.

 

 

I don't.  That seems to be the one consistent thing that most agree on - the quality of the ab testing is not to be trusted.  And there's definitely danger...especially for healthcare workers who are exposed over and over...they may have a false sense of security then actually get it and carry it wide and far, while having no idea they can even actually get it.  

There's some that think antibodies to C19 don't mean you're immune to C19.  To me, and most others, that's much crazier than the actual testing being subpar. 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

4 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-genetic-barcode-rapidly-revealing-covid-.html

Genetic tracing 'barcode' is rapidly revealing COVID-19's journey and evolution

opening graph

  Reveal hidden contents

Drexel University researchers have reported a method to quickly identify and label mutated versions of the virus that causes COVID-19. Their preliminary analysis, using information from a global database of genetic information gleaned from coronavirus testing, suggests that there are at least six to 10 slightly different versions of the virus infecting people in America, some of which are either the same as, or have subsequently evolved from, strains directly from Asia, while others are the same as those found in Europe.

my money quote is the last graph

  Hide contents

"We're seeing that the two parts of the virus that seem not to be mutating are the ones responsible for its entry into healthy cells and packaging its RNA," Rosen said. "Both of these are important targets for understanding the body's immune response, identifying antiviral therapeutics and designing vaccines."

 

 

Very interesting.  Also look how different Italy is vs the US.  Many hypothesized it was a different strain and as it turns out it appears there's almost no overlap between the various strains.  Makes sense when we see how the virus was behaving there vs here. 

[B00M 6416]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Texas - that's hopeful that we can peak in the next two weeks:

Probability that the peak has already passed: 8%

Probability that peak will have passed within 7 days: 36%

Probability that peak will have passed within 14 days: 66%

In stark contrast with IHME projection that Texas already peaked

[aggie08 21504]

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

so we agree.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that forgery was what you were suggesting. I don't agree with all of what you say, but you at least come at it from a mostly rational...unlike that stork642 troll.

I was responding to modesitt's anecdote about his grandma's sister's daughter telling him that doctors and/or the state told her that they were certain the death wasn't COVID-related, but they were going to mark it that way anyway because money. That's the definition of forgery. I believe modesitt that that's what he was told, but I don't buy it all at the doctor/coroner/hospital level.

Edited April 19, 2020 by aggie08

[Bevo 13577]

58 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-genetic-barcode-rapidly-revealing-covid-.html

Genetic tracing 'barcode' is rapidly revealing COVID-19's journey and evolution

opening graph

  Reveal hidden contents

Drexel University researchers have reported a method to quickly identify and label mutated versions of the virus that causes COVID-19. Their preliminary analysis, using information from a global database of genetic information gleaned from coronavirus testing, suggests that there are at least six to 10 slightly different versions of the virus infecting people in America, some of which are either the same as, or have subsequently evolved from, strains directly from Asia, while others are the same as those found in Europe.

my money quote is the last graph

  Hide contents

"We're seeing that the two parts of the virus that seem not to be mutating are the ones responsible for its entry into healthy cells and packaging its RNA," Rosen said. "Both of these are important targets for understanding the body's immune response, identifying antiviral therapeutics and designing vaccines."

 

 

The spike protein and helicase have always been the two main targets.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

I thought Birx and Fauci did a really good job addressing the “testing, testing, testing” argument last week, but it really hasn’t been discussed here.  Did anyone but me see it?

Basic argument is that testing is over rated.  I get tested today and get a negative result.  Fine, that’s good for all of 15 minutes or the next time I leave the house.  The idea that you could do 100mm tests/day is ludicrous and everyone knows it.  Scott Gottlieb said we needed 750k test/wk.  We’re now doing 1MM/week.

The real solution is to monitor hospital visits and anomalies in flu symptom reports which we already have in place county by county.  Then, you go to those areas and do random and targeted testing.  They theorize we have enough testing to do this for phase 1 and will need to ramp up more for phase 2.

Thoughts?  Anyone for team apocalypse (Or team nothing but the sniffles) still think we need hundreds of millions of tests or a vaccine before this national nightmare ends?

[BradInATX 9208]

"In the middle of an unprecedented global pandemic that we still know very little about, what we really need is LESS information!"

- Really smart people

Edited April 19, 2020 by BradInATX

[DDD Dad 14339]

3 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

 

You just look stupid now. 

 

Now?!?

[justhookit 4191]

8 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

"In the middle of an unprecedented global pandemic that we still know very little about, what we really need is LESS information!"

- Really smart people

- I can’t read

[DaysOff 7951]

When you Google coronavirus testing near me it's all doc in a box ERs. Is that the same everywhere?

[dcar00 14210]

14 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I thought Birx and Fauci did a really good job addressing the “testing, testing, testing” argument last week, but it really hasn’t been discussed here.  Did anyone but me see it?

Basic argument is that testing is over rated.  I get tested today and get a negative result.  Fine, that’s good for all of 15 minutes or the next time I leave the house.  The idea that you could do 100mm tests/day is ludicrous and everyone knows it.  Scott Gottlieb said we needed 750k test/wk.  We’re now doing 1MM/week.

The real solution is to monitor hospital visits and anomalies in flu symptom reports which we already have in place county by county.  Then, you go to those areas and do random and targeted testing.  They theorize we have enough testing to do this for phase 1 and will need to ramp up more for phase 2.

Thoughts?  Anyone for team apocalypse (Or team nothing but the sniffles) still think we need hundreds of millions of tests or a vaccine before this national nightmare ends?

IMO the maryland governor is playing a bit of politics to some extent as well as squeaky wheel.   hes got 486 deaths but 2900 total that have been hospitalized over 3 months. He acting like he wants to test anyone with a symptom of any kind to open up.  That isn't and never was going to happen.

 Fauci is a god so whatever he says goes.  I didn't see what you are referencing but it doesn't surprise me that would be their take.

I think if Fauci had his druthers he'd keep is shut down everywhere thru mid May because he knows how flu viruses in general react.  that said I think phase 1 is really just a way to get some of the country up and keep hotspots to closer to mid May before going Phase 1.  yeah it sucks if your state is a hotspot and you are a governor so I can see him wanting to be able to do more tests and potentially trace a bit better.

[Bevo 13577]

9 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

"In the middle of an unprecedented global pandemic that we still know very little about, what we really need is LESS information!"

- Really smart people

That may work on facebook, but it won't work here. First, accurate information is good. Inaccurate information lies somewhere between useless and harmful. Second, utility and cost play rolls. If tests could be made for free and distributed for free and used by the end-user, everyone could stockpile the tests in their homes and test as many times as they see fit. Grocery stores and restaurants could test people before letting them enter. This isn't reality though. People have to make the tests, people have to read the tests, and people have to pay for the tests. These tests aren't close to the point of say a pregnancy test. We just aren't there and won't be for an extended period of time. Third, no one is claiming they want less information with regard to testing. That is called a strawman. The only thing that some people might be claiming is that they don't want to be tracked by cell phone. This raises the question of whether the public good outweighs the private bad. Overcoming this though requires a little more than a facebook meme though as the facebook crowd is probably the most vociferous against privacy violations.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, Bevo said:

That may work on facebook, but it won't work here. First, accurate information is good. Inaccurate information lies somewhere between useless and harmful. Second, utility and cost play rolls. If tests could be made for free and distributed for free and used by the end-user, everyone could stockpile the tests in their homes and test as many times as they see fit. Grocery stores and restaurants could test people before letting them enter. This isn't reality though. People have to make the tests, people have to read the tests, and people have to pay for the tests. These tests aren't close to the point of say a pregnancy test. We just aren't there and won't be for an extended period of time. Third, no one is claiming they want less information with regard to testing. That is called a strawman. The only thing that some people might be claiming is that they don't want to be tracked by cell phone. This raises the question of whether the public good outweighs the private bad. Overcoming this though requires a little more than a facebook meme though as the facebook crowd is probably the most vociferous against privacy violations.

"We should have less information about this pandemic because information costs money!"

- Really smart guy

 

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by BradInATX

[dcar00 14210]

58 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that forgery was what you were suggesting. I don't agree with all of what you say, but you at least come at it from a mostly rational...unlike that stork642 troll.

I was responding to modesitt's anecdote about his grandma's sister's daughter telling him that doctors and/or the state told her that they were certain the death wasn't COVID-related, but they were going to mark it that way anyway because money. That's the definition of forgery. I believe modesitt that that's what he was told, but I don't buy it all at the doctor/coroner/hospital level.

they probably told her they were marking it maybe covid but that they weren't really sure if it was covid. I can easily see that being misinterpreted(unintentionally or intentionally).  to be honest I am still not sure why someone so sick with respiratory issues that they are going to potentially die wouldn't be tested by the hospital for it.  It seems completely illogical.

to mark it covid, and not probable covid, without a test is no bueno.  I could see it happening but very very very low probability on purpose.

Edited April 19, 2020 by dcar00

[Telegraph_it 3357]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

"We should have less information about this pandemic because information costs money!"

- Really smart guy

 

 

You can stop being obtuse. 

[BradInATX 9208]

12 minutes ago, Telegraph_it said:

You can stop being obtuse. 

Summarizing a very stupid point in a very stupid manner is not being obtuse. What's being obtuse is pretending to be a serious person while at the same time advocating that we as a country either shouldn't be testing as many people as possible because information isn't important, or that little old us in the US of A just can't afford those fancy schmancy virus tests!

Both premises are so beyond idiotic that they don't deserve an attempt at a serious response.

Also, the way that Johnny Sack's original post framed Fauci's outlook on testing was completely false and disingenuous.

Edited April 19, 2020 by BradInATX

[Telegraph_it 3357]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Summarizing a very stupid point in a very stupid manner is not being obtuse. 

Well when you don’t even understand (or pretend to not understand) the point and demand information, just more information, it comes across as obtuse. 

[dcbc 14484]

15 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

When you Google coronavirus testing near me it's all doc in a box ERs. Is that the same everywhere?

See my anecdotal post above about one person I knew not being able to be tested at a big hospital ER versus another I know getting tested at "Hospitality" ER.  So, maybe.

[atomheartbevo 89670]

16 minutes ago, Bevo said:

The only thing that some people might be claiming is that they don't want to be tracked by cell phone. This raises the question of whether the public good outweighs the private bad. Overcoming this though requires a little more than a facebook meme though as the facebook crowd is probably the most vociferous against privacy violations.

The thought of the Facebook crowd bitching about privacy violations is hilarious.  

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

When you Google coronavirus testing near me it's all doc in a box ERs. Is that the same everywhere?

Pictures of your spouses 2 documents

[Bevo 13577]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The thought of the Facebook crowd bitching about privacy violations is hilarious.  

Yeah, I thought about that as I typed it. The funny thing is that it is true. The same people who bitch about installing an app that will track you are the same people who would post about it on facebook.

[Sbbruin 21853]

18 minutes ago, Telegraph_it said:

You can stop being obtuse. 

 

[Royalfan5 2354]

For a comparison sake, the city of Lincoln which around 285k, the gov’t says we can test 150 per day with 2 day turnaround, and that about 60-65 a day have been turning up for testing. Been averaging about 4-5 positives a day. 

[DaysOff 7951]

Pictures of your spouses 2 documents

No. Fuck her.

[dcar00 14210]

1 minute ago, DaysOff said:

9 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Pictures of your spouses 2 documents

No. Fuck her.

the new "south austin's mom"?

[freyguy 4272]

36 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

When you Google coronavirus testing near me it's all doc in a box ERs. Is that the same everywhere?

Those are all Las Palapas locations.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Just fucking around because bored. Minus the big 5- NY/NJ/Mass/Penn and Mich... I got like 12,585 “confirmed deaths” from worldometer

I added their “confirmed cases” and had a CFR of 3.8

I did a 20 fold on their cases and got .3FR. It’s likely lower than that. Same with the big 5 if we knew their true number which is astronomical when you factor NYC, Boston,Hartford,Philly,Baltimore and DC are all within 7 hrs of each other