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Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away


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Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 2:30 PM, SydneyCarton said:

Sweden needs to be on this graph at this point. Just for contrast. 

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Sweden isn't looking too great in comparison to its neighbors and most relevant comparisons to be honest.

sweden.jpg

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

Deaths per 1 million persons
Sweden: 213
Denmark: 70
Norway: 36
Finland: 32

Other comparisons
Spain: 482
Italy: 423
France: 335
UK: 287
USA: 152
Germany: 67

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

I'd recommend clicking the above and checking individual countries to see the charts for each.  

 

Posted (edited)

For all of those posting "fuck China," here is the reason some of us are pushing back.  It has nothing to do with wanting to absolve the Chinese government for its transparent propaganda or culpability in failing to contain the outbreak in the first place (or causing it).

It's this.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, csb, my wife mentioned to me just this morning that the owner of the nail salon she uses (she's friends with outside of getting her nails done) has told her of several occasions over the last two months where she was spat at and given nasty looks or comments of "go back to China"  (she's Vietnamese).

Edited by DDD Dad
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
  On 4/24/2020 at 1:49 PM, Dahobbs said:

As, I said, fuck them. I have no problem with that. I'm just perplexed by this idea that we need to assign 100% responsibility to someone for something that is at its heart a natural phenomena. I would also be interested in seeing the reports you mention. I find that conclusion hard to reconcile with the fact the US and other nations did have ample warning the virus was a real problem, and yet it still manifested into serious outbreaks all over. What would have materially changed with an earlier warning from China? At heart we just have a very contagious disease that has inserted itself it a very connected world, full of billions of people. 

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I and others addressed  this upthread. The emergence of the disease was a natural, unpreventable, and not just predictable but extensively predicted event. It was going to happen, we knew it, and failed to prepare. We then also failed to respond with what resources we did have due to a combination of ignorance, incompetence and delusion. 

So to your point, you’re half right. The disease is a natural phenomenon. But the death and economic catastrophe we now face is a man-made disaster.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
  • Like 3
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 3:02 PM, bolverk said:

Sweden isn't looking too great in comparison to its neighbors and most relevant comparisons to be honest.

sweden.jpg

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

Deaths per 1 million persons
Sweden: 213
Denmark: 70
Norway: 36
Finland: 32

Other comparisons
Spain: 482
Italy: 423
France: 335
UK: 287
USA: 152
Germany: 67

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

I'd recommend clicking the above and checking individual countries to see the charts for each.  

 

Expand  

Tortoise and hare comparison.

Sweden hoping to pull the bandaid off quick and suffer the most as quickly as possible and then recover. Other countries trying to prolong at a slow but less painful per day path.

Only comparison of meaning won't occur for another year.

  • Like 4
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 1:14 AM, Hate said:

The nursing home where my Grandpa is had a parade today. The got all of the residents out in the parking lot and let the families drive by. My 99 year old Grandpa seemed to enjoy it. At least it was a beautiful day today.

 

6fdc56795d84c17278ec4e6a5c619fb9.jpg

 

Yes, that is a Members Only jacket and yes, at 99, he probably is the only member.

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Beep the horn at him for me.

  • Like 2
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 3:07 PM, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Tortoise and hare comparison.

Sweden hoping to pull the bandaid off quick and suffer the most as quickly as possible and then recover. Other countries trying to prolong at a slow but less painful per day path.

Only comparison of meaning won't occur for another year.

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I wasn't advocating a particular approach and was only responding to Sydney's question. Any of us can draw our own conclusions from the evidence available to us but, as you point out, we won't see the ultimate outcome for quite a while.

Posted (edited)
  On 4/24/2020 at 3:05 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:

The emergence of the disease was a natural, unpreventable, and not just predictable but extensively predicted event.

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No matter which of the competing origin stories you prefer, this was preventable.

Edited by Anastasis
  • Like 5
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 3:12 PM, Anastasis said:

No matter which of the competing origin stories you prefer, this was preventable.

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Probably not without changing our entire relationship with the natural world and having a few billion fewer people. 

And by the way- both of those would probably be good things in the grand scheme of things for all kinds of reasons, but aren’t really something a society can do or has ever done in a planned way. 

Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 3:03 PM, DDD Dad said:

For all of those posting "fuck China," here is the reason some of us are pushing back.  It has nothing to do with wanting to absolve the Chinese government for its transparent propaganda or culpability in failing to contain the outbreak in the first place (or causing it).

It's this.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, csb, my wife mentioned to me just this morning that the owner of the nail salon she uses (she's friends with outside of getting her nails done) has told her of several occasions over the last two months where she was spat at and given nasty looks or comments of "go back to China"  (she's Vietnamese).

Expand  

That's like boycotting Queen because of Iran's policies on whatever...

Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 3:03 PM, DDD Dad said:

For all of those posting "fuck China," here is the reason some of us are pushing back.  It has nothing to do with wanting to absolve the Chinese government for its transparent propaganda or culpability in failing to contain the outbreak in the first place (or causing it).

It's this.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, csb, my wife mentioned to me just this morning that the owner of the nail salon she uses (she's friends with outside of getting her nails done) has told her of several occasions over the last two months where she was spat at and given nasty looks or comments of "go back to China"  (she's Vietnamese).

Expand  

That's like boycotting Queen because of Iran's policies on whatever...

Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 3:03 PM, DDD Dad said:

For all of those posting "fuck China," here is the reason some of us are pushing back.  It has nothing to do with wanting to absolve the Chinese government for its transparent propaganda or culpability in failing to contain the outbreak in the first place (or causing it).

It's this.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, csb, my wife mentioned to me just this morning that the owner of the nail salon she uses (she's friends with outside of getting her nails done) has told her of several occasions over the last two months where she was spat at and given nasty looks or comments of "go back to China"  (she's Vietnamese).

Expand  

Yeah, no......

  • Like 9
Posted (edited)
  On 4/24/2020 at 3:27 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:

Probably not without changing our entire relationship with the natural world and having a few billion fewer people. 

And by the way- both of those would probably be good things in the grand scheme of things for all kinds of reasons, but aren’t really something a society can do or has ever done in a planned way. 

Expand  

Let's run with the wet market origin story.  H5N1, SARS, and COVID all emerged from an environment where live wild animals were kept in a wet market. After SARS, china restricted the practice.  Then the wildlife showed back up when they relaxed the restrictions.  Then COVID emerged in a wet market where live wildstock was kept.  

This is not really rocket science here Bozo. 

This was completely preventable. China had put the regulations in place to prevent it.  Then they relaxed those regulations. And here we are. 

I agree completely that we need to really think about how we interact with the natural world, commercial farms and ranch practices, etc.  But don't wave that shit around as a distraction when we have a very clearly preventable example right at hand.  

 

Here is an article from 2007.  

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-foodmarket/china-market-may-be-breeding-ground-for-deadly-viruses-idUSHKG27143120071210

Edited by Anastasis
  • Like 4
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 3:40 PM, Hate said:

The mental gymnastics that some go through to try to paint the picture that China isn’t 100% culpable in this pandemic is staggering. The “is just as easily could have started here” bullshit is ridiculous. When a virus originates in the US and then the government lies about it to the rest of the world for at least two months leading to thousands of deaths and the worst economic downturn in 90 years, then you can start a thread about it and say “fuck the US” all you want. Until then, fuck China (the country not the people for those of you that really really want to make this a race thing).

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What I love is that we absolutely can and should talk about the culpability of the party that caused the fire to start and escape local containment (and there's clearly significant culpability there).....but it's taboo for us to talk about the culpability of the party responsible for preventing the arrival and spread of the fire on our shores.

Makes me chuckle a bit.  Do continue.

  • Like 5
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 3:40 PM, Hate said:

The mental gymnastics that some go through to try to paint the picture that China isn’t 100% culpable in this pandemic is staggering. The “is just as easily could have started here” bullshit is ridiculous. When a virus originates in the US and then the government lies about it to the rest of the world for at least two months leading to thousands of deaths and the worst economic downturn in 90 years, then you can start a thread about it and say “fuck the US” all you want. Until then, fuck China (the country not the people for those of you that really really want to make this a race thing).

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China is not responsible for the response in the United States.

  • Like 2
  • Fuck You 8
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 3:44 PM, Anastasis said:

Let's run with the wet market origin story.  H5N1, SARS, and COVID all emerged from an environment where live wild animals were kept in a wet market. After SARS, china restricted the practice.  Then the wildlife showed back up when they relaxed the restrictions.  Then COVID emerged in a wet market where live wildstock was kept.  

This is not really rocket science here Bozo. 

This was completely preventable. China had put the regulations in place to prevent it.  Then they relaxed those regulations. And here we are. 

I agree completely that we need to really think about how we interact with the natural world, commercial farms and ranch practices, etc.  But don't wave that shit around as a distraction when we have a very clearly preventable example right at hand.  

 

Here is an article from 2007.  

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-foodmarket/china-market-may-be-breeding-ground-for-deadly-viruses-idUSHKG27143120071210

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This particular virus emerged from this particular place and time. That’s one type of the increasing tens of thousands of places and times where this kind of pathogen could emerge. 

  • Like 1
Posted

Y’all should listen to the interview that the Epoch Times did with Kyle Bass. Pay attention to what he says about Chinese infiltration in the west. For example, Yu Meng, chief investment officer of CalPERS, and prominent member of the CCP. Wait, what? Yeah.

Posted (edited)
  On 4/24/2020 at 4:00 PM, David Dennison said:

China is not responsible for the response in the United States.

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  On 4/24/2020 at 3:57 PM, Brisketexan said:

What I love is that we absolutely can and should talk about the culpability of the party that caused the fire to start and escape local containment (and there's clearly significant culpability there).....but it's taboo for us to talk about the culpability of the party responsible for preventing the arrival and spread of the fire on our shores.

Makes me chuckle a bit.  Do continue.

Expand  

Yeah, but it's all arm chair quarterbacking really.  There is plenty of blame to go around and of course there are things that could have been done better.  It's difficult when this virus had at least a one month head start on us.  Y'all were sitting back saying "listen to the science guy" (Fauci) when this began to erupt and the science guy was saying as late as January 31 that the risk of a pandemic was still low and nothing needed to change.  So the science guy that you praise caused us to have another delay of at least a couple of weeks (I, for one, do not blame Fauci I'm just making a point).  The fact of the matter is that the US was going to be screwed regardless because we were lied to for at least 2 months and nothing was going to change that regardless of who was in charge. 

Edited by Hate
  • Like 5
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 4:07 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:

This particular virus emerged from this particular place and time.

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...and was completely preventable. 

 

We can and should address the tens of thousands of other high risk situations.  I am not sure how we are going to get there though when some people refuse to acknowledge that this particular situation was easily preventable. 

  • Like 3
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 3:03 PM, DDD Dad said:

For all of those posting "fuck China," here is the reason some of us are pushing back.  It has nothing to do with wanting to absolve the Chinese government for its transparent propaganda or culpability in failing to contain the outbreak in the first place (or causing it).

It's this.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, csb, my wife mentioned to me just this morning that the owner of the nail salon she uses (she's friends with outside of getting her nails done) has told her of several occasions over the last two months where she was spat at and given nasty looks or comments of "go back to China"  (she's Vietnamese).

Expand  

TLDR: Fuck China

  • Like 2
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 4:09 PM, Hate said:

The fact of the matter is that the US was going to be screwed regardless because we were lied to for at least 2 months and nothing was going to chnage that regardless of who was in charge. 

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See, we get to absolve the US response in one fell swoop in this forum.....but if any of us dare state a counterpoint to that conclusion -- ZOMG, the CR people have escaped!

Biggest "safe space" on the internet is this thread.  That y'all don't get the humor and irony just makes it funnier and more ironic.

  • Like 7
  • Fuck You 1
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 4:11 PM, Anastasis said:

...and was completely preventable. 

 

We can and should address the tens of thousands of other high risk situations.  I am not sure how we are going to get there though when some people refuse to acknowledge that this particular situation was easily preventable. 

Expand  

OK.

So now what? Wag a finger and tell the Chinese they were very, very naughty? 

We need cheap shit, bro.

  • Fuck You 4
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 4:11 PM, Anastasis said:

...and was completely preventable. 

 

We can and should address the tens of thousands of other high risk situations.  I am not sure how we are going to get there though when some people refuse to acknowledge that this particular situation was easily preventable. 

Expand  

Tell you what. Try to shut down First Monday in Canton before there’s a public health problem that results.  Human culture and social structure doesn’t change because of what -could- happen.

Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 4:12 PM, Brisketexan said:

See, we get to absolve the US response in one fell swoop in this forum.....but if any of us dare state a counterpoint to that conclusion -- ZOMG, the CR people have escaped!

Biggest "safe space" on the internet is this thread.  That y'all don't get the humor and irony just makes it funnier and more ironic.

Expand  

What part of "plenty of blame to go around" and "we could have done things better" don't you get?  I didn't absolve the US response, but that response has been years and years in the making but you and the CR cabal really want to make it a 2 month issue.  The fact of the matter is that if China has been truthful about this from the beginning, we could have stopped all travel coming into the US and prevented this from ever reaching what it has. 

  • Like 4
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 4:15 PM, David Dennison said:

OK.

So now what? Wag a finger and tell the Chinese they were very, very naughty? 

We need cheap shit, bro.

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We should treat them the same way that we would treat a rogue nuclear state.  Sanctions until they regulate the situation, international inspection regime, etc. Sorry that you won't have cheap dildos to chew on. 

  • Like 4
Posted

Fresh pork prices did set back this morning with belly values down 24%, so we will see if run rates are coming back up with with the break today. Beef values were up again but seemed to slow down a little, and we should be getting one or two plants back today and another one on Monday. 

  • Like 2
Posted
  On 4/24/2020 at 4:16 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:

Tell you what. Try to shut down First Monday in Canton before there’s a public health problem that results.  Human culture and social structure doesn’t change because of what -could- happen.

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You mean what HAS happened. Twice. From the exact same situation.  I really don't get the push back on this.  

  • Like 2


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