Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[DDD Dad 14251]

Confusion emote sucks. You’re the only fucker I have seen do it. It doesn’t award points positively or negatively. Negging at least conveys an emotional response. It’s as bad as iMessage reactions. God I fucking hate those.

Interesting hot take.

[stork642 4498]

38 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Maybe if you support smart government that isn’t going to get punked by China 99% of time, you won’t spend so much time being angry about being punked by China.  While you’re, you know, getting sick or dying.  Try harder next time.

Are you serious?  What kind of stupid mentality is this.  Don’t blame the bad actors for what they did because we should have known better so it’s our fault.  You’d make a great enabling parent.  There’s always a chance that maybe we knew the Chinese Govt was a bunch of shit bags but never in a million years thought they would lie and cover up a virus that would kill hundreds of thousands of people.  I guess we are just naive.  

[stork642 4498]

21 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

If China doesn’t lie, do you think the USA halts international travel early enough to then be able to track and trace incidences and outbreaks, and have the manpower and testing capability to do so, such that we avoid a major outbreak?

i don’t. Too much value in liberty here, and prior restraint has been roundly rejected by the Supreme Court. 

If China doesn’t lie and if we had a more true picture of the shit show going on there its possible that we would have stopped flights much earlier which, by itself, would have had a significant impact on our ability to try to manage this in a better way.  But Chine lied so I guess we will never know.  

[Iceman 2640]

49 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Aren't you from Louisiana?

Georgia...the one right next to Armenia.

[Bevo 13527]

Y'all keep talking about herd immunity, but you need to learn what it means. The general idea I know you all understand is that herd immunity is when many people are immune to a disease, keeping it from taking hold and thereby protecting people who aren't immune. The population protects vulnerable individuals.

But what many are missing is that herd immunity is based on R0. This involves maths but you don't need to understand it. Basically, we need to get the proportion of susceptible people in the population to under 1/R0.  For an R0 of 2.5, we need to get 1-1/2.5=0.6 or 60% of the population immune.

However, R0, the basic reproduction number of the disease, is the average number of people an infected person goes on to infect. So while R0 for the virus initially was 2.5, that R0 changes with social distancing, PPE, and good hygiene. I am not sure what the R0 is currently, but I assume that it is lower than 2.5. This means that herd immunity would be less than the initial estimates of 60%. Of course, giving up some of the parameters leading to a lower R0 such as going back to work and decreasing social distancing, will lead to the need for a greater percentage needed for herd immunity.

 

[DDD Dad 14251]

If China doesn’t lie and if we had a more true picture of the shit show going on there its possible that we would have stopped flights much earlier which, by itself, would have had a significant impact on our ability to try to manage this in a better way.  But Chine lied so I guess we will never know.  

I love how policy discussions like this can occur with no political implications whatsoever.

It’s fascinating, really.

[Hmmm 155]

13 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I love how policy discussions like this can occur with no political implications whatsoever.

It’s fascinating, really.

You can turn almost anything into a political discussion especially if you spend most of your time in CR.  Fascinating.  Same applies to religion.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

He’s been talking out his ass with numbers all thread with zero to support his position. 

we’re all allowed to believe what we want and speak out . I happen to believe this shit is far spread out, much more than a random antibody test of 3000 in a region with tens of millions of people. You do you, I don’t give a shit.

[DDD Dad 14251]

You can turn almost anything into a political discussion especially if you spend most of your time in CR.  Fascinating.  Same applies to religion.

Username checks out.

[Dahobbs 17447]

30 minutes ago, Bevo said:

However, R0, the basic reproduction number of the disease, is the average number of people an infected person goes on to infect. So while R0 for the virus initially was 2.5, that R0 changes with social distancing, PPE, and good hygiene. I am not sure what the R0 is currently, but I assume that it is lower than 2.5. This means that herd immunity would be less than the initial estimates of 60%. Of course, giving up some of the parameters leading to a lower R0 such as going back to work and decreasing social distancing, will lead to the need for a greater percentage needed for herd immunity.

 

"The definition describes the state where no other individuals are infected or immunized (naturally or through vaccination). Some definitions, such as that of the Australian Department of Health, add absence of "any deliberate intervention in disease transmission".[20] The basic reproduction number is not to be confused with the effective reproduction number R, which is the number of cases generated in the current state of a population, which does not have to be the uninfected state. By definition, R0 cannot be modified through vaccination campaigns. "

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Dahobbs

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Y'all keep talking about herd immunity, but you need to learn what it means. The general idea I know you all understand is that herd immunity is when many people are immune to a disease, keeping it from taking hold and thereby protecting people who aren't immune. The population protects vulnerable individuals.
But what many are missing is that herd immunity is based on R0. This involves maths but you don't need to understand it. Basically, we need to get the proportion of susceptible people in the population to under 1/R0.  For an R0 of 2.5, we need to get 1-1/2.5=0.6 or 60% of the population immune.
However, R0, the basic reproduction number of the disease, is the average number of people an infected person goes on to infect. So while R0 for the virus initially was 2.5, that R0 changes with social distancing, PPE, and good hygiene. I am not sure what the R0 is currently, but I assume that it is lower than 2.5. This means that herd immunity would be less than the initial estimates of 60%. Of course, giving up some of the parameters leading to a lower R0 such as going back to work and decreasing social distancing, will lead to the need for a greater percentage needed for herd immunity.
 

Ok so why for an entire month are we averaging 30k cases/day? The beginning of the month sure, we were in a lag from about when our social life was shut down. But I’d expect somewhat of a drop, later on, right?

[pacman 7329]

3 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

We'll be wearing face masks and taking off our shoes for the next 20 years.

And they will charge us a $10 fee because we have to use the American Airlines approved mask

[Dahobbs 17447]

2 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Ok so why for an entire month are we averaging 30k cases/day? The beginning of the month sure, we were in a lag from about when our social life was shut down. But I’d expect somewhat of a drop, later on, right?

I dont think you mean "averaging" since averaging 30k a day doesnt necessarily mean we have anything near 30k each day. If fact, you could have one day with 900k and average 30k a day over a month. 

To answer your real question, we may have cut the reproductive number (via shutdowns) low enough to keep the daily number consistent, but not so low as to reduce the number of new infections. Or, the number of daily new cases may be an artifact of how much testing we do. Or it could be a mix of both. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

I don’t care how smart you are if someone keeps information from you that you need to make an informed decision then you will struggle.

If you are dumb enough to rely on your enemy (trade war woohoo) to provide you reliable info, you get the vd you deserve.  How fucking dumb are you?  Oh never mind.  I understand.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

I dont think you mean "averaging" since averaging 30k a day doesnt necessarily mean we have anything near 30k each day. If fact, you could have one day with 900k and average 30k a day over a month. 

To answer your real question, we may have cut the reproductive number (via shutdowns) low enough to keep the daily number consistent, but not so low as to reduce the number of new infections. Or, the number of daily new cases may be an artifact of how much testing we do. Or it could be a mix of both. 

You know what I meant. Go look at the bar graph from April 1 - today and you could almost drive a car across it

 

I can tell you Minnesota’s last. 5 days have been our highest testing and with numbers rising substantially the last 3

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

54 minutes ago, stork642 said:

Are you serious?  What kind of stupid mentality is this.  Don’t blame the bad actors for what they did because we should have known better so it’s our fault.  You’d make a great enabling parent.  There’s always a chance that maybe we knew the Chinese Govt was a bunch of shit bags but never in a million years thought they would lie and cover up a virus that would kill hundreds of thousands of people.  I guess we are just naive.  

I guess you are.  Actually you’re dumber than a sack of bat shit, but that doesn’t keep you from voting. Or talking. But you’re still dumb as a sack of bat shit.  Outsmarted by a sick chinaman, lol, put it on your grandkids tombstone ya dumb fuck.  

[Anastasis 23395]

Oh good. Slope of texas fatalities is increasing.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Anastasis

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

3 hours ago, stork642 said:

It became 100% China’s fault when they starting lying to cover up the virus which led to a domino effect in how the entire fucking world responded to said virus.  China receiving 100% of the blame for how this virus spread throughout the world is well deserved.  Fuck The Chinese Government for their straight up lies and coverup.  

You’re outraged about someone lying?  Really?  Lying?  Lo fucking l.  If lying is a capital offense well...

[Dahobbs 17447]

4 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

You know what I meant. Go look at the bar graph from April 1 - today and you could almost drive a car across it

"To answer your real question, we may have cut the reproductive number (via shutdowns) low enough to keep the daily number consistent, but not so low as to reduce the number of new infections. Or, the number of daily new cases may be an artifact of how much testing we do. Or it could be a mix of both." 

[Buzzrock 14871]

4 hours ago, Bevo said:

A doc said that?

Yeah I’ve been going to him for a long time. Good dude. 

[Bevo 13527]

34 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

"The definition describes the state where no other individuals are infected or immunized (naturally or through vaccination). Some definitions, such as that of the Australian Department of Health, add absence of "any deliberate intervention in disease transmission".[20] The basic reproduction number is not to be confused with the effective reproduction number R, which is the number of cases generated in the current state of a population, which does not have to be the uninfected state. By definition, R0 cannot be modified through vaccination campaigns. "

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number

 

From your link: R₀ is not a biological constant for a pathogen as it is also affected by other factors such as environmental conditions and the behaviour of the infected population. Furthermore R₀ values are usually estimated from mathematical models, and the estimated values are dependent on the model used and values of other parameters.

[Surly Bevo 24696]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Too much value in liberty here, and prior restraint has been roundly rejected by the Supreme Court. 

I'll get you a toe

Edited May 1, 2020 by Surly Bevo

[Buzzrock 14871]

1 hour ago, Bevo said:

Y'all keep talking about herd immunity, but you need to learn what it means. The general idea I know you all understand is that herd immunity is when many people are immune to a disease, keeping it from taking hold and thereby protecting people who aren't immune. The population protects vulnerable individuals.

But what many are missing is that herd immunity is based on R0. This involves maths but you don't need to understand it. Basically, we need to get the proportion of susceptible people in the population to under 1/R0.  For an R0 of 2.5, we need to get 1-1/2.5=0.6 or 60% of the population immune.

However, R0, the basic reproduction number of the disease, is the average number of people an infected person goes on to infect. So while R0 for the virus initially was 2.5, that R0 changes with social distancing, PPE, and good hygiene. I am not sure what the R0 is currently, but I assume that it is lower than 2.5. This means that herd immunity would be less than the initial estimates of 60%. Of course, giving up some of the parameters leading to a lower R0 such as going back to work and decreasing social distancing, will lead to the need for a greater percentage needed for herd immunity.

 

https://rt.live

 

currently .75 in Texas

Edited May 1, 2020 by Buzzrock

[Bevo 13527]

4 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Yeah I’ve been going to him for a long time. Good dude. 

I am sure he is a good guy, but he is wrong. Prior exposure will provide immunity but that immunity will wane as time passes. How does he think people recover from the virus?

[Buzzrock 14871]

3 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I am sure he is a good guy, but he is wrong. Prior exposure will provide immunity but that immunity will wane as time passes. How does he think people recover from the virus?

He said nothing is known for sure about mutation rate or how many strains we are dealing with. You could have caught one strain and another strain hits you next. 
 

We also don’t know yet how seasonal it will become. 

[ChiTownDoc 21101]

4 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

To be fair, I do think the virus is killing a number of the frailer members of society that likely wouldn't have made it the rest of the year. Essentially, we are shifting a good number of deaths that would have occurred later in the year to now (this is still bad, obviously). Now, I don't think that makes up the majority of deaths or anything. But I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it was something like 20% of them. I believe the Brits estimated something similar for their fatalities. 

I posted below in hypotheticals thread a few days ago.  This analysis absolutely needs to be done.  We can't just hole up forever because 20 younger people in IL may die and an extra 3000 elderly people who's avg life expectancy was D +2.  Meaning 2 years from the time they actually died.  Now did we need to quarantine in densely populated areas so we didn't all turn into NYC/New Orleans?  Fuck yes...but we also need to get out and open up society.  And that is some point before trying to get to zero deaths risked.  

 

When you get sued for malpractice, the lovely attorneys put a value on that life.  It's done in each case.  If somebody who was already in a nursing home, demented, bedbound passes that's not a very valuable case - the ambulance chasers like work comp/med mal/personal injury cases that are with younger 'more valuable' lives...more valuable meaning they were still earning for a family, had many years left, etc. 

We don't want to hear it but at some point we'll have to do this with viruses and the lack and do a real analysis.  I'm glad I'm a physician and my 'do no harm' hat keeps me out of that decision making process...but it's flat out going to be a necessity.  

Edited May 1, 2020 by ChiTownDoc

[Bevo 13527]

Just now, Buzzrock said:

https://rt.live

 

currently .75 in Texas

Assuming R0 is 0.75, that means that the virus is disappearing in our state. Unfortunately, when we stop social distancing and good hygiene practices, R0 will begin to grow again. 

[dcar00 14035]

the R0 of this was never close to 2.5.  more bad estimations.

[ChiTownDoc 21101]

7 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I am sure he is a good guy, but he is wrong. Prior exposure will provide immunity but that immunity will wane as time passes. How does he think people recover from the virus?

Yes, unless you're immunocompromised, if you actually mounted enough of a response to produce antibodies, there will be some protection.  This isn't talking false positives on antibody tests - the quality of that testing does need to to improve. 

[stork642 4498]

30 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I guess you are.  Actually you’re dumber than a sack of bat shit, but that doesn’t keep you from voting. Or talking. But you’re still dumb as a sack of bat shit.  Outsmarted by a sick chinaman, lol, put it on your grandkids tombstone ya dumb fuck.  

Dude, you seem a little drunk/crazy.  Hopefully drunk but I’m guessing the latter.  Your arguments are sound though.  Just an FYI the Chinese government feels as though the phrase “sack of bat shit” is very disparaging to those who love to eat bats.  

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Assuming R0 is 0.75, that means that the virus is disappearing in our state. Unfortunately, when we stop social distancing and good hygiene practices, R0 will begin to grow again. 

Does Texas’ 48 ranked tests per capita show in this?

[Bevo 13527]

1 minute ago, Buzzrock said:

He said nothing is known for sure about mutation rate or how many strains we are dealing with. You could have caught one strain and another strain hits you next. 
 

We also don’t know yet how seasonal it will become. 

That stuff is unknown. However, the spike protein which the virus uses to enter the cell, can't mutate much. Assuming a good antibody response is one that targets the spike protein, I am pretty confident that immunity against one strain will provide immunity against most strains. Don't take my word for this (or his), because there hasn't been enough research. As for seasonality, that may or may not be an issue depending on the effectiveness of whichever vaccine prevails in clinical trials. I'm personally not too worried about seasonality if a vaccine proves effective. People think influenza when talking about a coronavirus vaccine, but there are many other vaccines against viruses that work much better.

[atomheartbevo 89445]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-buys-more-body-bags-preparing-for-worst-case-cornavirus-scenario-11588172780
 

Quote

The federal government ordered 100,000 new Covid-19 body bags, in what officials described as preparations for a “worst case” scenario.

The giant order last week for “human remains pouches” comes as more than 58,000 Americans have died from Covid-19, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

Should be InfoWars top headline right now.

[atomheartbevo 89445]

The funeral home that was overwhelmed is getting some help, whether they wanted it or not

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/29/us/bodies-trucks-brooklyn-funeral-home/index.html

Quote

 

Officials were back at a Brooklyn funeral home Thursday, removing bodies that weren't properly cared for inside the home, a law enforcement official tells CNN.

A day earlier, officials discovered four trucks containing as many as 60 bodies outside the Andrew Cleckley Funeral Home after someone reported fluids dripping from the trucks, according to the law enforcement official.

Quote

It's unclear how many bodies will be removed, thed official said Thursday. 

Authorities have also asked the owner to gather paperwork that would help identify the bodies.

The Department of Environmental Protection issued two summonses to the owner of the funeral home for a foul odor.

 

[Dahobbs 17447]

11 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

the R0 of this was never close to 2.5.  more bad estimations.

You've spent the entire thread telling everybody that the IFR is actually really low. But if both IFR and R0 are low, then why would we see a rapid rise in deaths in communities all over the world? You'd expect a slow burn (slow increase in number of deaths) or no burn at all. At some point you have to see that the evidence is completely inconsistent with your hopes, right? 

[atomheartbevo 89445]

400-700 people protested at the Michigan Capitol, as the governor extended the state of emergency to May 28th and the stay-at-home through the 15th.  These are the same folks who were protesting the other day, so not very notable except this picture

Those Michigan police are pretty calm and composed.   I have a feeling many state troopers elsewhere might not take kindly to people without masks screaming at them during a pandemic.  

Also, the dudes protesting/screaming, look like they all have underlying conditions   Not wise to be without a mask   

 

[brakeman 28245]

1 hour ago, pacman said:

And they will charge us a $10 fee because we have to use the American Airlines approved mask

we get to safely fly again.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[atomheartbevo 89445]

3 minutes ago, brakeman said:

we get to safely fly again.

I bet a lot of people on vacation will be driving this summer.

And I can only imagine what the cruise lines will be like.  Then again, plenty took cruises even as this thing was hitting the news.  

[atomheartbevo 89445]

Speaking of vacations, Disney selling masks for you and your kids.   
https://www.shopdisney.com/face-masks/

 

[brakeman 28245]

we should bail the cruise lines out, you know for darwin.

[brakeman 28245]

wow.

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89445]

Damnit Mason County

https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/mason-county-in-person-city-county-meeting-results-in-covid-19-case-spike/

Quote

We haven’t heard of many positive COVID-19 cases coming out of rural Texas counties until now. 18 people have tested positive for the coronavirus in Mason county, with more results pending. 

Quote

Mason County Judge, Jerry Bearden confirmed Thursday that the spike in cases is due, in part, to a recent in-person city council meeting. 

Quote

“We were just riding along in the local wagon, and all of a sudden the wheels fall off,” said Mason County Judge, Jerry Bearden. “We now have an open-wide pandemic here in the county.”

Quote

Two weeks ago, the town of Mason was still holding in-person city council meetings. There meetings were being held inside a room with people 6-feet apart, but the virus still managed to seep through the seams. 

“It started with elected officials and clerks,” said Judge Bearden. “They had a city council meeting that afternoon and things went from there.”

Quote

“Now we are closing down facilities. The City of Mason closed their offices down for a week,” said Judge Bearden. 

There isn’t a hospital here in Mason, just a small clinic with a physician and a few nurses. Since the outbreak, they’ve been rapidly testing people. Judge Bearden says, the county hasn’t had the resources to mitigate this virus, but more testing capacity is to come Monday. 

“The National Guard is sending out testing for folks in rural areas,” said Judge Bearden.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by atomheartbevo

[atomheartbevo 89445]

1 minute ago, brakeman said:

we should bail the cruise lines out, you know for darwin.

[atomheartbevo 89445]

Whoever said they were running low on meat...

https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/h-e-b-implements-purchasing-limits-on-certain-items-to-ensure-availability/

“Limits on the following meat products have been put in place for H-E-B locations in the San Antonio area, Central Texas, Gulf Coast, Border region, and certain West and North Texas towns:

• Ground beef – limit 2 packages
• Beef, chicken, pork, turkey – limit 2 packages, combined total (not two of each)

Purchases of the following meat products will be limited in the Houston area as well as stores in Abilene, Big Spring, Burleson, Cleburne, Granbury, Hudson Oaks, Midland, Odessa, San Angelo and Waxahachie:

• Ground beef – limit 4 packages
• Chicken – limit 4 packages
• Brisket – limit 2

This update as concerns grow nationally about the meat supply chain. Coronavirus outbreaks among employees at plants have forced some to close.”

[Telegraph_it 3354]

Damn Mason. I don’t like to see that at all. I have family in Menard county. I will make sure to tell them to stay on their acreage.

[Anastasis 23395]

3 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Whoever said they were running low on meat...

https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/h-e-b-implements-purchasing-limits-on-certain-items-to-ensure-availability/

“Limits on the following meat products have been put in place for H-E-B locations in the San Antonio area, Central Texas, Gulf Coast, Border region, and certain West and North Texas towns:

• Ground beef – limit 2 packages
• Beef, chicken, pork, turkey – limit 2 packages, combined total (not two of each)

Purchases of the following meat products will be limited in the Houston area as well as stores in Abilene, Big Spring, Burleson, Cleburne, Granbury, Hudson Oaks, Midland, Odessa, San Angelo and Waxahachie:

• Ground beef – limit 4 packages
• Chicken – limit 4 packages
• Brisket – limit 2

This update as concerns grow nationally about the meat supply chain. Coronavirus outbreaks among employees at plants have forced some to close.”

fortunately at this point the venison supply chain is uninterrupted.

[gmr548 16513]

I would be a little bit surprised if the two thirds number ends up being accurate (and they've already significantly surpassed that 20,000 death mark, so he missed that one).  I'd be curious what assumptions and data he used to come up with it (I haven't seen it laid out anywhere). I guess you could just compare life expectancy with the average age of the fatalities to get a ballpark estimate. 
I've very much in the camp that this is a serious disease that can cause massive harm (and has). But, I don't think it is unreasonable to acknowledge the reality that a significant number of the people that die to it would likely have died at some point later this year. 
 

I mean, you threw a pretty aggressive number out there without a source. We can't test your claim now, but New York's death rate has been way elevated relative to normal: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/27/upshot/coronavirus-deaths-new-york-city.html&ved=2ahUKEwik-MTr4JHpAhUMCawKHac-C7EQFjACegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1bDXeFPK0M2ZpYNg_glxve

Obviously that spike is driven by COVID, even if it's obviously not every single death. Knowing that, if 20 percent of deaths were going to happen later this year anyway, you're saying you'd expect death rates in NYC and around the nation to drop below average over the rest of the year. And honestly, it'd have to be well below average for that to be true because we're seeing fewer deaths, which I believe are the #3 cause of death, due to people curtailing activity. Does that sound reasonable to you? Keep an eye on those numbers.

[elfenix 34171]

2 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Ok so why for an entire month are we averaging 30k cases/day? The beginning of the month sure, we were in a lag from about when our social life was shut down. But I’d expect somewhat of a drop, later on, right?

part of it is that testing has ramped up since the middle of last week.  from april 3-21 we were averaging 151,000 tests per day (with one outlier on april 4 of 229K, only two others in the mid 160s).  on apr 22 there was a dump of 314K tests, and since then we've been averaging   216K tests per day.  average positives went from 29,426 in the earlier period to 28,860 in the last week.

 

 

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

54 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Whoever said they were running low on meat...

https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/h-e-b-implements-purchasing-limits-on-certain-items-to-ensure-availability/

“Limits on the following meat products have been put in place for H-E-B locations in the San Antonio area, Central Texas, Gulf Coast, Border region, and certain West and North Texas towns:

• Ground beef – limit 2 packages
• Beef, chicken, pork, turkey – limit 2 packages, combined total (not two of each)

Purchases of the following meat products will be limited in the Houston area as well as stores in Abilene, Big Spring, Burleson, Cleburne, Granbury, Hudson Oaks, Midland, Odessa, San Angelo and Waxahachie:

• Ground beef – limit 4 packages
• Chicken – limit 4 packages
• Brisket – limit 2

This update as concerns grow nationally about the meat supply chain. Coronavirus outbreaks among employees at plants have forced some to close.”