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Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

InkaUtexas

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31308

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This article might be a bit political in nature, https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/dallas-county-social-distancing-coronavirus-11908794

But it has some nice tidbits, namely this:

Quote

Haley said doctors at Parkland Hospital are already learning how to better treat those who come into the hospital with the virus.

"We are preventing deaths now," Haley said. "Two months ago, the mortality rate for a COVID patient who went on a ventilator was 75% on average ... Over the last two months — we just got a report this morning from the Parkland ICU — they have cut down their ventilator mortality rate from 75% down to 25%. They are saving three out of four of those patients rather than one out four."

 

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Uncle Boobs
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Against my better judgment and several beers deep, I have taken you up on this, potentially ending my streak of totally worthless posts. I have done 3 and 7 day averages only on the Worldometer data. 

Brisketexan
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Daughter’s home. A little PTSD, we’re picking up Whataburger to help.

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Just try and imagine GreenspointTexas being the person to intubate you as you fight for your life against COVID-19. You’re laying there gasping for air while he chastises you for all the things you li

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Newdoc

Newdoc 3433

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Posted
3 hours ago, GopherRock said:

If you're buying what that video is selling, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona for you.

 Not at all. I somewhat feel sorry for the lady because the filmmaker royally screwed her somewhat tempered message by framing it with some crazy stuff. I think she had some kernels of truth or at least reasonable concerns with outright misconceptions as well. 

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15214

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3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

then where the fuck does seattle get off telling tenants they get 6 more months of not paying rent.

I think IT already worked out a deal for April and May, which happens to be you know...2 months.

 

6 months, then they bail, I"d guess.  Then the LL has to vet and bring in new tenants.  It's going to be a lot longer than 6 months, hence the looming FC and deed in lieu storm we're staring down the barrel of.  This is weapons-grade stupidity on the part of Seattle.  

  • Mortgage Payment x 6+ months
  • Insurance x 6+ months
  • Taxes x 6+ months
  • HOA Dues (maybe)
  • Etc..
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Foosters

Foosters 17734

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3 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

It's great if you need it but if you can't pay 6 Mos worth of mortgage then how are you going to pay all 6 Mos when it is due.  It just delays it.  

Yeah, I dont get this either. Same thing with rent forbearance. Ok, you cant pay because you have no job. Why not get back to us in 6 months when you'll owe us 6 months of rent in one lump-sum. Good luck!

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9798

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

I guess I'm struggling to understand what the alternative is?  So you go on July 1 and demand rent, and they cant pay because they work retail, or food industry, or the hundreds of other jobs that are haven't been able to make money and got a stimulus check that might cover food and utilities.  Do you evict?  Who is going to have the money to replace that tenant?  The pro-business agenda might help you kick that poor fucker out, but its not going to help you get another tenant if no one has any fucking money.  

Your tenants didn't choose not to work, they were forced not to work.  There should be a mechanism to make them whole, which would make you whole.  Your bank account will be just as empty if you cant find another tenant, and if people are still fucked for work, thats what will happen. 

Wouldn’t these tenants also be getting the $600/wk on top of the state unemployment benefits? $520 or so in Texas. That’s $4400 a month equivalent to Aprox $57k annually. Shouldn’t some of that money be used to pay rent and bills?  If not, what was the point exactly?

Edited by ChickenSandwich
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dcar00

dcar00 14036

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3 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

It's great if you need it but if you can't pay 6 Mos worth of mortgage then how are you going to pay all 6 Mos when it is due.  It just delays it.  With that being said I am doing it even though I don't need to. I am putting the normal pymt into savings. I'm hoping the govt comes in through another stimulus and relieves some of that $ then I will have had free mortgage paid. Worse case I just pay it.  

apparently you didn't read the "if we can save just one life, quit being selfish, you should pay it if you can, please, please"  Seattle City Council Geniuses fine print. 

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dcar00

dcar00 14036

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Wouldn’t these tenants also be getting the $600/wk on top of the state unemployment benefits? $520 or so in Texas. That’s $4400 a month equivalent to Aprox $57k annually. Shouldn’t some of that money be used to pay rent and bills?  If not, what was the point exactly?

dude, do you not boats and ho's...

Edited by dcar00
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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19096

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8 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

It's great if you need it but if you can't pay 6 Mos worth of mortgage then how are you going to pay all 6 Mos when it is due.  It just delays it.  With that being said I am doing it even though I don't need to. I am putting the normal pymt into savings. I'm hoping the govt comes in through another stimulus and relieves some of that $ then I will have had free mortgage paid. Worse case I just pay it.  

 

4 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Yeah, I dont get this either. Same thing with rent forbearance. Ok, you cant pay because you have no job. Why not get back to us in 6 months when you'll owe us 6 months of rent in one lump-sum. Good luck!

So generally, a deferment or forbearance does not result in the payment being due in one lump sum.  Generally, they extend the term.  

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14265

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Because anyone against illegal immigration and wanting to take measures against it hates brown people. You're drive by posts always add so much to the discussion.

Was this an original retort or are you just imitating Anastasis?

 

Sorry. I only have time for a driveby of my own right now.

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15214

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2 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Wouldn’t these tenants also be getting the $600/wk on top of the state unemployment benefits? $520 or so in Texas. That’s $4400 a month. Shouldn’t some of that money be used to pay rent and bills?

Neighbor and her company were impacted heavily.  She works in HR for a retail company.  The biggest issue now is getting people to come back to work.  The COVID "hazard" pay bump pushes them north of $50K/yr.....more than they were making prior.  So they are milking these payments, then when they run out, just filter back into the job market.  It's a windfall for them:  @  $15-17/hr this is almost a $20K/yr bump.  Factor in no gas.  Dry cleaning.  Tolls, etc.  Nobody wants to come back.  Such nonsense.  

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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then where the fuck does seattle get off telling tenants they get 6 more months of not paying rent.

I think IT already worked out a deal for April and May, which happens to be you know...2 months.

 

I don't know about Seattle. I don't live there nor do I particularly care for it or much of the west coast. But a discussion about Seattle politics is probably best suited for the Cloak Room, don't you think?

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19096

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

big hitter the Llama, loooong.

Funnily enough, I accidentally ran into the Llama once in DC.  I was in my PJs walking my dog, and he and his lesser Llama's were in the hotel lobby going somewhere.  It was surreal.  Knew he was there as the night before, my colleague was checking in (I had come back from the office with her), and we saw Richard Gere and his then wife Carrie Lowell come in.  We asked the manager who was checking her in, and he told us the Llama was staying at the hotel.

Edited by PenelopeWitherspoon
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104676

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This article might be a bit political in nature, https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/dallas-county-social-distancing-coronavirus-11908794

But it has some nice tidbits, namely this:

Haley said doctors at Parkland Hospital are already learning how to better treat those who come into the hospital with the virus.

"We are preventing deaths now," Haley said. "Two months ago, the mortality rate for a COVID patient who went on a ventilator was 75% on average ... Over the last two months — we just got a report this morning from the Parkland ICU — they have cut down their ventilator mortality rate from 75% down to 25%. They are saving three out of four of those patients rather than one out four."

And this.....this is big.  Seriously, it's the kind of factor that can be a game-changer.

We can buy ourselves a lot of flexibility and opening up if we do two things:

1) lower the transmission rate.  Things like masks when out among people, continued restrictions on large, close gatherings.

2) lower the death rate.  And yeah, all the baggage that "death rate' carries with it (CFR v. IFR, etc.).  But really, the end-point on death rate is actual "total number of deaths."

The bolded language above goes to factor two.  If we lower the death rate (and I'm really thinking of the IFR here, which we don't have a great handle on....but it's almost certainly below 1%), then we lower the total number of deaths.

So, if we can reduce the percentage of folks who would die by 75%, that would be huge.  Setting aside the deaths that have already occurred, let's say we're expecting another 200k dead in the US this year (not outside the realm of possibility).  Now, we would be expecting another 50k.  That would make this akin to a year of bad flu numbers.  And we know, as a society, we can live with a "bad flu year" with no meaningful disruption to society.

This issue also opens up some discussion of the WAYS that we reduce deaths.  This thread has seen lots of talks of a "cure," and a jillion different drugs that can help.  But it's been thin on discussion of simply refining the methods of treatment (putting people on oxygen instead of ventilators, how we handle them on ventilators, etc.).  It's a comprehensive thing, and here's where I tip my hat to doctors and respiratory therapists as being COMPLETE AND UTTER FUCKING BADASSES.  They are fighting a war to save lives.  And they are adjusting their strategies and tactics on the fly, sharing information, and using every bit of their brain power and collective knowledge.  It's fucking incredible to watch, and someday, the books we will read on their efforts will remind us of the Manhattan Project, Apollo 13, and humanity at its best.

But where they are getting us is to a spot where there is a way forward, BEFORE we have a vaccine.  If we can manage the spread so that the hospitals don't get overwhelmed, AND we can reduce the number of people dying (even by something better than half), then we will be in a position where this indeed IS what many said/hoped it would be at the beginning -- a bad flu.

1 - Reduce transmission (we've done so in the near-term, and we CAN do so in the medium term, we still need to be smart.

2 -- Develop treatments to reduce deaths (we're getting there -- and fast.  I remind you, the US has been dealing with this for around 3 months.  That's it).  These can get us to a point when we can...

3 -- Develop and deliver a vaccine.

Twice, I sure hope the numbers cited by Haley are accurate, and I sure hope that they are transferable to healthcare providers everywhere.  Because if they are....that's the best single piece of news I've read on this topic since this began.

Edited by Brisketexan
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aggie08

aggie08 21436

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15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Actually, I think it was 2nd Amendment Monday.

Tuesdays was for no place else but Chili's.  No place else.

It wasn't even a 2nd Amendment thing.  It was mostly pointing out that gun-toting protesters look like fucking dorks, not questioning their right to do so.  Something I (wrongly) assumed was a universal sentiment, but there was plenty of push-back nonetheless.  Because we're not all allowed to agree on anything.  Ever.

 

.....except that Outback Steakhouse fucking sucks.

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52350

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I also took mortgage forebearance and am holding the cash in the bank just in case. The letter from my servicer said at the end of the 6 months I could pay to current, make a payment plan for the arrearage, or discuss loan modification. 
I’d prefer modification but if that’s something they can means test, and I have the money in the bank, they might not accept it. 
also no indication of credit reporting if it’s not all paid current, after the gvt mandated period of no derogatory reporting. 

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26437

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3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Funnily enough, I accidentally ran into the Llama once in DC.  I was in my PJs walking my dog, and he and his lesser Llama's were in the hotel lobby going somewhere.  It was surreal.  Knew he was there as the night before, my colleague was checking in (I had come back from the office with her), and we saw Richard Gere and his then wife Carrie Lowell come in.  We asked the manager who was checking her in, and he told us the Llama was staying at the hotel.

Did he tell you anything about total consciousness on your death bed?

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26437

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1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

It wasn't even a 2nd Amendment thing.  It was mostly pointing out that gun-toting protesters look like fucking dorks, not questioning their right to do so.  Something I (wrongly) assumed was a universal sentiment, but there was plenty of push-back nonetheless.  Because we're not all allowed to agree on anything.  Ever.

 

.....except that Outback Steakhouse fucking sucks.

app deploy GIF

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dcar00

dcar00 14036

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6 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I also took mortgage forebearance and am holding the cash in the bank just in case. The letter from my servicer said at the end of the 6 months I could pay to current, make a payment plan for the arrearage, or discuss loan modification. 
I’d prefer modification but if that’s something they can means test, and I have the money in the bank, they might not accept it. 
also no indication of credit reporting if it’s not all paid current, after the gvt mandated period of no derogatory reporting. 

did you just go ask or did you have to show you lost your job?

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21744

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Agreed.  It should be systematic and consistent, because these are trickle-up consequences.  Don't pay people?  They can't pay rent.  If they don't pay rent, landowner can't pay mortgage and taxes.  

A simple plan would be to allow extension of mortgages for the period of rent relief.  But then, that impacts cash going into banks...so maybe the feds have to bridge that.  But it should be a systematic approach.

This is basically what I am dealing with every day nowadays.  No, banks are not giving relief.  At least our lenders are not.  Any restructuring of loans still results in full payment of the mortgage over the same remaining term.  Passing that on to tenants is giving them relief that we are not getting ourselves.  I have renegotiated at least a dozen leases in the last 3 weeks either deferring rent to a defined period and payback schedule (at 0% interest), or in some cases extending leases (with credit tenants) and accelerating some or all of concessions due in the extension period to now, whether that be free rent or tenant improvement dollars that can be converted.  Or if tenants have free rent scheduled for a future month (we usually spread the free rent over the term to minimize risk), we are moving some of that forward.  But it is on a case-by-case basis and depends on how we feel about the long term viability of the tenant. 

But the perception that the big bad landlords have unlimited deep pockets to whether this is misplaced.  All of our properties are individual partnerships made up of syndicates, some of which are Wall St investment funds and some of which are mom and pop retirees.  We've had to cut distributions to people that depend on them in order to preserve cash.  Some tenants have simply elected to not pay and there's currently nothing we can do about it.  And when we can, the courts are likely to be logjammed for years with unlawful detainer actions stemming from this.  We are going to be working our way out of this for years.  We have been judicious in distributing/spending capital reserves, so we are well positioned for the most part, but that doesn't mean we have to pass that judiciousness on to tenants.  Because how do we decide who gets it and who doesn't?  We can't give it to them all, so restructured deferments are the only practical solution.   

I should clarify this is commercial space.  Mostly office, with some retail.

Edited by Sbbruin
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31308

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39 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

It's great if you need it but if you can't pay 6 Mos worth of mortgage then how are you going to pay all 6 Mos when it is due.  It just delays it.  With that being said I am doing it even though I don't need to. I am putting the normal pymt into savings. I'm hoping the govt comes in through another stimulus and relieves some of that $ then I will have had free mortgage paid. Worse case I just pay it.  

Most of the mortgage forebearance schemes I'm hearing of are simple wraps:  the payments go at the end.  Miss three, mortgage goes three more months.  Something you couldn't normally get (might get a wrap but it would be a shorter period with accrued interest and dick fees).

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104676

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

This is basically what I am dealing with every day nowadays.  No, banks are not giving relief.  At least our lenders are not.  Any restructuring of loans still results in full payment of the mortgage over the same remaining term.  Passing that on to tenants is giving them relief that we are not getting ourselves.  I have renegotiated at least a dozen leases in the last 3 weeks either deferring rent to a defined period and payback schedule (at 0% interest), or in some cases extending leases (with credit tenants) and accelerating some or all of concessions due in the extension period to now, whether that be free rent or tenant improvement dollars that can be converted.  Or if tenants have free rent scheduled for a future month (we usually spread the free rent over the term to minimize risk), we are moving some of that forward.  But it is on a case-by-case basis and depends on how we feel about the long term viability of the tenant. 

But the perception that the big bad landlords have unlimited deep pockets to whether this is misplaced.  All of our properties are individual partnerships made up of syndicates, some of which are Wall St investment funds and some of which are mom and pop retirees.  We've had to cut distributions to people that depend on them in order to preserve cash.  Some tenants have simply elected to not pay and there's currently nothing we can do about it.  And when we can, the courts are likely to be logjammed for years with unlawful detainer actions stemming from this.  We are going to be working our way out of this for years.  We have been judicious in distributing/spending capital reserves, so we are well positioned for the most part, but that doesn't mean we have to pass that judiciousness on to tenants.  Because how do we decide who gets it and who doesn't?  We can't give it to them all, so restructured deferments are the only practical solution.   

I should clarify this is commercial space.  Mostly office, with some retail.

There's gonna be a LOT of workouts and litigation when this is all said and done.  The only "right" way to do it it so ensure that everyone takes a similar haircut, so the pain is spread out.  Tenants don't get off free, LLs don't, banks don't.  Everyone's gotta drink some of the shot of bitter medicine, but nobody has to drink it all.

It's going to involve business solutions (people being practical and smart), litigation (because lots of people AREN'T practical and smart), and legislation (because nobody is going to be happy watching lawyer slapfights for the next two years).

Edited by Brisketexan
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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15214

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5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Most of the mortgage forebearance schemes I'm hearing of are simple wraps:  the payments go at the end.  Miss three, mortgage goes three more months.  Something you couldn't normally get (might get a wrap but it would be a shorter period with accrued interest and dick fees).

Same.  As long as it's a GSE loan.  

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31308

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25 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And this.....this is big.  Seriously, it's the kind of factor that can be a game-changer.

We can buy ourselves a lot of flexibility and opening up if we do two things:

1) lower the transmission rate.  Things like masks when out among people, continued restrictions on large, close gatherings.

2) lower the death rate.  And yeah, all the baggage that "death rate' carries with it (CFR v. IFR, etc.).  But really, the end-point on death rate is actual "total number of deaths."

The bolded language above goes to factor two.  If we lower the death rate (and I'm really thinking of the IFR here, which we don't have a great handle on....but it's almost certainly below 1%), then we lower the total number of deaths.

So, if we can reduce the percentage of folks who would die by 75%, that would be huge.  Setting aside the deaths that have already occurred, let's say we're expecting another 200k dead in the US this year (not outside the realm of possibility).  Now, we would be expecting another 50k.  That would make this akin to a year of bad flu numbers.  And we know, as a society, we can live with a "bad flu year" with no meaningful disruption to society.

This issue also opens up some discussion of the WAYS that we reduce deaths.  This thread has seen lots of talks of a "cure," and a jillion different drugs that can help.  But it's been thin on discussion of simply refining the methods of treatment (putting people on oxygen instead of ventilators, how we handle them on ventilators, etc.).  It's a comprehensive thing, and here's where I tip my hat to doctors and respiratory therapists as being COMPLETE AND UTTER FUCKING BADASSES.  They are fighting a war to save lives.  And they are adjusting their strategies and tactics on the fly, sharing information, and using every bit of their brain power and collective knowledge.  It's fucking incredible to watch, and someday, the books we will read on their efforts will remind us of the Manhattan Project, Apollo 13, and humanity at its best.

But where they are getting us is to a spot where there is a way forward, BEFORE we have a vaccine.  If we can manage the spread so that the hospitals don't get overwhelmed, AND we can reduce the number of people dying (even by something better than half), then we will be in a position where this indeed IS what many said/hoped it would be at the beginning -- a bad flu.

1 - Reduce transmission (we've done so in the near-term, and we CAN do so in the medium term, we still need to be smart.

2 -- Develop treatments to reduce deaths (we're getting there -- and fast.  I remind you, the US has been dealing with this for around 3 months.  That's it).  These can get us to a point when we can...

3 -- Develop and deliver a vaccine.

Twice, I sure hope the numbers cited by Haley are accurate, and I sure hope that they are transferable to healthcare providers everywhere.  Because if they are....that's the best single piece of news I've read on this topic since this began.

There had been some reports of possible overuse or over-pressure of ventilators and this seemed to confirm that and put it in a nice perspective.

And, Parkland is pretty well-known for its trauma department and is essentially staffed and operated by "our own" UT-Southwestern Medical School, so I tend to credit what they say, even though it is literally a "county hospital" for the poors.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104676

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

There had been some reports of possible overuse or over-pressure of ventilators and this seemed to confirm that and put it in a nice perspective.

And, Parkland is pretty well-known for its trauma department and is essentially staffed and operated by "our own" UT-Southwestern Medical School, so I tend to credit what they say, even though it is literally a "county hospital" for the poors.

"Battlefield" hospitals tend to come up with some innovative shit, and they have a supply of docs who run off of a cocktail of their own brilliance and adrenaline, so they come up with some good shit.  Ben Taub in Houston is similar -- one of the most innovative trauma hospitals in the world.

I give doctors shit -- plenty are arrogant, and don't realize that they don't know much about shit that ain't in their area of expertise -- but watching the best of them in their element, on the fly....goddamn, it's incredible.

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15214

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Looks like Cuomo taking heat now as well.  Not undeserved either, as it was their plan that engendered so many cases.  Reading through this, it's pretty bad...Jesus Christ...

Cuomo in hot water

Quote

The state Health Department allowed nurses and other staff who tested positive for the coronavirus to continue treating COVID-19 patients at an upstate nursing home, The Post has learned.

State officials signed off on the move during an April 10 conference call that excluded local officials from Steuben County, who protested the move, according to a document provided by the county government's top administrator, Jack Wheeler.

At least 15 people have died at the Hornell Gardens nursing home in the tiny town of Hornell since the outbreak, according to county tallies. State records show just seven deaths across the county and include no data about this home.

"The County was not permitted on a planning call [on April 10] with DOH and the facility owner for mitigation and response," Wheeler wrote in a memo obtained by The Post. "We learn that DOH will allow positive-asymptomatic staff to work with COVID-positive patients only. We raise our concerns and objections."

Quote

Meanwhile, the situation at the Hornell Gardens home continued to deteriorate.

By April 13, "the situation at the Hornell area facility grows more concerning," Wheeler's memo says. "We participate in a coordination call with DOH and the facility owner, resulting in a plan to move COVID-negative residents to an out-of-county facility."

He added: "The County helps coordinate transportation over the next few days."

The state Health Department's decision to allow coronavirus-positive nurses to continue working at Hornell Gardens came after two days of testing revealed that one in three of the facility's residents and staff had the deadly virus. It came after officials reported three deaths at the facility, Wheeler said.

Quote

Cuomo and his appointee, Zucker, are under intense scrutiny for a Health Department directive that required nursing homes to readmit residents from hospitals who tested positive for coronavirus but did not need intensive care even though the elderly are uniquely vulnerable.

Additionally, emails obtained by The Post showed that officials were warned that a Brooklyn nursing home where 55 people have died warned the state they were struggling to cope with coronavirus cases.
Officials at the facility in Cobble Hill requested patients be transferred to the two lightly used emergency hospital facilities set up on the West Side of Manhattan the Javits Convention Convention Center and the US naval hospital ship Comfort but were refused.

Turning away Coronavirus-positive patients from nursing homes would raise all sorts of other problems, as would a possible shortage of workers to staff those facilities. But sending people with the virus into places packed with elderly people, many or most with co-morbidities, is outrageous.

 

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52350

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18 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

did you just go ask or did you have to show you lost your job?

My mortgage is fha so federally backed, so i just had to ask.  Figured why wait until our situation gets bad, just do it now.  I can undo it in 6 months if it turns out I didn’t need it. Or explore more advantageous resolutions. 

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9798

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13 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Looks like Cuomo taking heat now as well.  Not undeserved either, as it was their plan that engendered so many cases.  Reading through this, it's pretty bad...Jesus Christ...

Cuomo in hot water

 

That’s almost as bad as what China did. Manslaughter. What form of immunity will they use to avoid civil litigation?

https://time.com/5832141/new-york-nursing-home-death-toll/

(ALBANY, N.Y.) — New York state is now reporting more than 1,700 previously undisclosed deaths at nursing homes and adult care facilities as the state faces scrutiny over how it’s protected vulnerable residents during the coronavirus pandemic.

At least 4,813 residents with confirmed or presumed cases of COVID-19 have died at 351 of New York’s 613 nursing homes since March 1, according to Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s administration’s new list. The list, released late Monday, includes the reported number of both confirmed and presumed deaths as of Sunday evening.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104676

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12 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Looks like Cuomo taking heat now as well.  Not undeserved either, as it was their plan that engendered so many cases.  Reading through this, it's pretty bad...Jesus Christ...

Cuomo in hot water

 

Yeah...that looks no bueno.  And what a blind spot - I mean, at the very beginning of this, it was obvious that nursing homes were hugely vulnerable.

Why not create special elderly COVID care facilities?  That is, don't drop non-hospitalized old COVID-positive people back in their homes -- put them in a "halfway house" - like one of the temporary hospitals built in a convention center -- until their case is resolved.  That way, you have 1) nursing homes, where COVID patients are removed from the mix so they don't infect other residents, 2) hospitals, where the sickest nursing home patients are treated, and 3) halfway houses, where COVID positive but non-critical nursing home residents quarantine until they are no longer a risk of reintroducing back into the nursing home.

It ain't perfect -- it's not a great place for grandma to hang out.  But it's better than grandma killing 10 of her fellow residents by infecting them via her caregivers.

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15214

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

That’s almost as bad as what China did. Manslaughter. What form of immunity will they use to avoid civil litigation?

https://time.com/5832141/new-york-nursing-home-death-toll/

(ALBANY, N.Y.) — New York state is now reporting more than 1,700 previously undisclosed deaths at nursing homes and adult care facilities as the state faces scrutiny over how it’s protected vulnerable residents during the coronavirus pandemic.

At least 4,813 residents with confirmed or presumed cases of COVID-19 have died at 351 of New York’s 613 nursing homes since March 1, according to Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s administration’s new list. The list, released late Monday, includes the reported number of both confirmed and presumed deaths as of Sunday evening.

The litigation tsunami will be enormous.  With direct attribution that this illustrates, what immunity options would there be?

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104676

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

That’s almost as bad as what China did. Manslaughter. What form of immunity will they use to avoid civil litigation?

They'll use sovereign immunity, and unless NY law creates some really odd exceptions, it will prevail.  As it should.  Any number of gov't decisions can result directly or indirectly in physical harm/death.  See my example used elsewhere -- the gov't decision to raise a speed limit on a road from 55 to 65 will result in some number of increased deaths.  But long-established law (seriously, back to England) is that the King is immune from the results of his decisions except in very limited circumstances (takings law, that sort of thing).

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DallasGatr

DallasGatr 216

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Posted
I'm not one for ooh-ing or aw-ing about most things but the ability and balls to fly in close formation is bad ass.  And I think of these flyovers as much more impressive than they tricks at air shows. The air show performances are awesome but I assume very well choreographed with timing.  These fly-overs are unique flight paths over extended  periods of time.

I disagree. While air show stuff is well planned, it involves much more complex and dangerous maneuvers. These flyovers are pretty much basic formation (albeit a bit tighter than normal) that most junior hornet or viper pilots could perform. Very cool, but pretty easy stuff for these pilots.
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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15214

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2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

They'll use sovereign immunity, and unless NY law creates some really odd exceptions, it will prevail.  As it should.  Any number of gov't decisions can result directly or indirectly in physical harm/death.  See my example used elsewhere -- the gov't decision to raise a speed limit on a road from 55 to 65 will result in some number of increased deaths.  But long-established law (seriously, back to England) is that the King is immune from the results of his decisions except in very limited circumstances (takings law, that sort of thing).

Nearly everything they did fostered the spread of the virus instead of mitigating it. Aiming nursing home staff who were positive towards those most vulnerable to it was like euthanasia day. And requiring nursing facilities that did not have any Covid cases to take Covid cases was also insane....no way they emerge from this unscathed.  Or the statement from their administration admonishing reports that the subways were unsafe - actually encouraging their use and telling riders there was no danger.   

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