Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

16 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

IF we were to pursue a strategy of gaining herd immunity through infection as opposed to vaccine. But, I also don't see any reason why that should be our strategy.

Fuck that. We should Thunderdome this motherfucking virus. Strong survive. Virus dies. 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

31 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

increased number of ongoing deaths. 

That's the worst kind of death.

[Samson's Wig 3179]

Well, I'm firmly in the camp of having absolutely no fucking clue what the right thing to do is anymore.  I appreciate how political all of this nonsense has become, leaving citizens to have to just guess for themselves based on mounds of conflicting "expert" opinions out there.  The data is unreliable, and changes based on source.  The guidelines for safety vary city by city.

I don't trust any politicians' motives, regardless of party, and it just makes practical sense to assume that any move is politically based and not based on the health and well-being of the citizenry.  Those blindly following bureaucrats because they have a medical degree may want to think that one through as well, although I acknowledge that their baseline trustworthiness starts much higher than an elected official.  Like anyone else in any line of work, however, they're subject to tunnel vision and I think we're seeing a certain amount of it right now.

Ultimately, I don't have a fucking clue what the right thing to do is, and that is not a position I have ever found myself in.  The biggest impact of this virus for me, personally, is the loss of decisiveness I've always had before.   

Like everyone else, I'm tired as fuck of sitting at home, and I can see the toll it's taking on my wife and kids.  Natural instincts tell you that something has to change on that front to protect your family.  But then you read another article from an expert or idiotic governor spewing doomsday rhetoric and you second guess yourself.  I don't mind, and in fact prefer, a scenario where I'm left to determine for myself what is best for me and my family.  I just wish everyone else would shut the fuck up so I can think.

 

[boknowstecmo 216]

I, for one, plan to go drink and eat on some patios this weekend, before the virus has time to mutate into something I can catch again. 

[Scary Stranger 1712]

6 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

Well, I'm firmly in the camp of having absolutely no fucking clue what the right thing to do is anymore.  I appreciate how political all of this nonsense has become, leaving citizens to have to just guess for themselves based on mounds of conflicting "expert" opinions out there.  The data is unreliable, and changes based on source.  The guidelines for safety vary city by city.

I don't trust any politicians' motives, regardless of party, and it just makes practical sense to assume that any move is politically based and not based on the health and well-being of the citizenry.  Those blindly following bureaucrats because they have a medical degree may want to think that one through as well, although I acknowledge that their baseline trustworthiness starts much higher than an elected official.  Like anyone else in any line of work, however, they're subject to tunnel vision and I think we're seeing a certain amount of it right now.

Ultimately, I don't have a fucking clue what the right thing to do is, and that is not a position I have ever found myself in.  The biggest impact of this virus for me, personally, is the loss of decisiveness I've always had before.   

Like everyone else, I'm tired as fuck of sitting at home, and I can see the toll it's taking on my wife and kids.  Natural instincts tell you that something has to change on that front to protect your family.  But then you read another article from an expert or idiotic governor spewing doomsday rhetoric and you second guess yourself.  I don't mind, and in fact prefer, a scenario where I'm left to determine for myself what is best for me and my family.  I just wish everyone else would shut the fuck up so I can think.

 

Stop listening to them?

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

The problem is there is no "right thing" and that is true of most decisions in your life. 

I would say this: Act and think local. You won't have any impact on what is happening in NYC or DC, but you can impact your family and your community. Be kind (if you believe this means wearing a mask out in public, then do it) but don't live in fear. Fear is debilitating. Be strong because that's what your family needs. Act with strength given the best information you have at the moment, correct as needed, and don't look back. We'll get through this. 

[South Austin 52130]

6 minutes ago, boknowstecmo said:

I, for one, plan to go drink and eat on some patios this weekend, before the virus has time to mutate into something I can catch again. 

I live two blocks from Woodrow’s off Burnet, and if they open this weekend I’m going to be real tempted to say “fuck it” and walk over for a beer on the patio.

[Guest Lobo]

19 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

That's the worst kind of death.

I think "mostly dead" and "ongoing death" are one in the same. 

And I like your Think & Act local.  Yes, fuck China.  Yes, it's a damn shame what's happening in New York.  But I need to be a leader in my home and in my community.  The country is craving leadership right now, and it begins in my home, my street, my neighborhood, and my City.  We are all leaning on each other more than ever before and I like that we're all stepping up to the challenge.  That does not appear to be the case in many parts of the country. 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I think "mostly dead" and "ongoing death" are one in the same. 

[Scary Stranger 1712]

3 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I live two blocks from Woodrow’s off Burnet, and if they open this weekend I’m going to be real tempted to say “fuck it” and walk over for a beer on the patio.

[Guest Lobo]

Are you kidding, Ed was dying for years.  It wasn't sudden, he was intensive care for eight weeks. 

[Hanrahan 1306]

13 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

The problem is there is no "right thing" and that is true of most decisions in your life. 

I would say this: Act and think local. You won't have any impact on what is happening in NYC or DC, but you can impact your family and your community. Be kind (if you believe this means wearing a mask out in public, then do it) but don't live in fear. Fear is debilitating. Be strong because that's what your family needs. Act with strength given the best information you have at the moment, correct as needed, and don't look back. We'll get through this. 

Hey hey, Ho ho

This coronavirus gots to go.

[dcar00 14031]

54 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Also suicide is not nearly as contagious.  Won’t say it’s not contagious at all though.  

I thought suicide was painless....

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

Just now, dcar00 said:

I thought suicide was painless....

[South Austin 52130]

17 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I would say this: Act and think local. You won't have any impact on what is happening in NYC or DC, but you can impact your family and your community. Be kind (if you believe this means wearing a mask out in public, then do it) but don't live in fear. Fear is debilitating. Be strong because that's what your family needs. Act with strength given the best information you have at the moment, correct as needed, and don't look back. We'll get through this. 

You can search all over for happiness, but there's no need to look any further than your own front door. There are plenty of things you can do in your own community. To visit a dairy and find out how milk is handled and prepared for delivery. Or plant a series of window displays on home safety. Or help start a library. To discuss with your dentist how to make your teeth more attractive.

[Dahobbs 17437]

4 minutes ago, South Austin said:

You can search all over for happiness, but there's no need to look any further than your own front my mom's back door. 

Fify. 

[utee94 15745]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

I agree the one week delay didn't result in us overshooting the herd immunity threshold and so it shouldn't have a substantial impact on overall deaths IF we were to pursue a strategy of gaining herd immunity through infection as opposed to vaccine. But, I also don't see any reason why that should be our strategy. Instead, our strategy should be to keep the keep R value of the disease near or below 1, so that instead of dealing with an ever increasing number of new cases, we have a stable or declining number of new cases. That would serve the dual purpose of preventing healthcare shortage AND reducing the overall percentage of the population exposed prior to development of a vaccine. If we purse that strategy, then the one week delay did result in additional deaths because it increased the number of people initially exposed. And, that in turn also increases the number of daily new cases we'll have even if we get the R value to 1 or below. So, not only did we get an initial increase in deaths, but we also end up with increased number of ongoing deaths. 

 

I agree with what you're saying, I just don't see it as being a realistic approach.  It took drastic measures to flatten the curve to this point.  I believe that ANY kind of reopening is going to force us toward the herd immunity scenario before a vaccine is developed, because I also am not certain we'll ever develop an effective vaccine, but I believe that reopening at this point is vital.  These are certainly my own assumptions, and that's the point of view I'm speaking from.

 

Edit: Re-reading that, I'm not saying we shouldn't wear masks and do smart things to limit the rate of spread for the infection.  I have a kick-ass Longhorn mask that my mom made for me, and I'm happy to wear it in public buildings.  Sadly, I've only been able to see her from 10 feet away in the front yard whilst wearing masks, for this entire time we've been locked down  She's almost 80 and was a 50 year smoker that recovered from lung cancer.    She won't get to hug her grandkids, perhaps for years.  It sucks but it's the responsible thing to do.

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by utee94

[Dahobbs 17437]

8 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I agree with what you're saying, I just don't see it as being a realistic approach.  It took drastic measures to flatten the curve to this point.  I believe that ANY kind of reopening is going to force us toward the herd immunity scenario before a vaccine is developed, because I also am not certain we'll ever develop an effective vaccine, but I believe that reopening at this point is vital.  These are certainly my own assumptions, and that's the point of view I'm speaking from.

 

Edit: Re-reading that, I'm not saying we shouldn't wear masks and do smart things to limit the rate of spread for the infection.  I have a kick-ass Longhorn mask that my mom made for me, and I'm happy to wear it in public buildings.  Sadly, I've only been able to see her from 10 feet away in the front yard whilst wearing masks, for this entire time we've been locked down  She's almost 80 and was a 50 year smoker that recovered from lung cancer.    She won't get to hug her grandkids, perhaps for years.  It sucks but it's the responsible thing to do.

 

Oh, no, I understood what you were saying. You don't think we can slow it enough without a full shutdown. You may be right. But I'd prefer to try and fail rather than just assume we are going to fail. 

[utee94 15745]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

Oh, no, I understood what you were saying. You don't think we can slow it enough without a full shutdown. You may be right. But I'd prefer to try and fail rather than just assume we are going to fail. 

Amen brutha, I'm with you there.  I'm doing my part and hoping for the best. 

 

[SHOOTER12 8788]

Well crap

We all here at work have to be tested again.  We had the one employee that tested positive last time but his roommate who he's sharing a motel room with turned up negative. it turns out it was a false negative as they retested him this week and he came back positive. So now we all get to go through this crap one more time.  Wish us the best fellows.

Edited May 22, 2020 by SHOOTER12

['stache 21765]

19 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Oh, no, I understood what you were saying. You don't think we can slow it enough without a full shutdown. You may be right. But I'd prefer to try and fail rather than just assume we are going to fail. 

We could make a huge difference if masks were distributed and everyone used them, but that has become cr so half the country refuses to do it and a very simple way to contain this virus before a vaccine is useless. We've already failed. Everyone will catch it, many will die, but whatevs.

Edited May 22, 2020 by 'stache

[Newdoc 3429]

1 hour ago, Cheeseweasel said:

We should Thunderdome this motherfucking virus.

Hey now, We don’t need another hero.

[Hate 20103]

Well crap
We all here at work have to be tested again.  We had the one employee that tested positive last time but his roommate who he's sharing a motel room with turned up negative. it turns out it was a false negative as they retested him this week and he came back positive. So now we all get to go through this crap one more time.  Wish us the best fellows.

How do they know this one wasn’t a false positive?

[GreenspointTexas 9559]

6 minutes ago, 'stache said:

We could make a huge difference if masks were distributed and everyone used them, but that has become cr so half the country refuses to do it and a very simple way to contain this virus before a vaccine is useless. We've already failed. Everyone will catch it, many will die, but whatevs.

1234

[SHOOTER12 8788]

Just now, Hate said:

How do they know this one wasn’t a false positive?

Damned good question.

The guys are cousins and are always together, including an I'll advised gathering with family and friends on Mother's Day.  We were really surprised when one tested positive and the other one didn't.

[ChiTownDoc 21098]

1 hour ago, Casual Encounter said:

My training has indicated children of parents who commit suicide are 50% more likely to take their own lives.

That’s why I said not as contagious.  I’d never say it’s not contagious.  

[ChiTownDoc 21098]

15 minutes ago, 'stache said:

We could make a huge difference if masks were distributed and everyone used them, but that has become cr so half the country refuses to do it and a very simple way to contain this virus before a vaccine is useless. We've already failed. Everyone will catch it, many will die, but whatevs.

Yeah hilarious that anyone would want to claim the ‘fuck masks’ side but that’s what we have become.  Even good advice needs to politicized.  

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

11 minutes ago, Hate said:

How do they know this one wasn’t a false positive?

[Samson's Wig 3179]

1 hour ago, Scary Stranger said:

Stop listening to them?

Avoiding CV talk is easier said than done.  For me, at least, the desire to make informed decisions typically outweighs the urge to put my head in the sand (except where sports are concerned, naturally).  The problem now is that there is no trustworthy information upon which to base one's opinion.  This thread is filled with guys with very strong opinions on this subject, but everyone of them is completely full of shit.  I'm usually one of them, however, which is the confusing part for me.  Normally it's relatively easy to cut through the bullshit of a situation and see at least enough of the truth to form an educated opinion.  That just doesn't exist right now, even if some are still doing so because it makes them feel better to sound confident. 

The reality is that many are simply predisposed to a "better safe than sorry" approach to life and many others are predisposed to an "I won't live my life afraid" approach.  Neither approach is wrong, in my opinion, but being in either camp makes it easy to slide into the slipstream of information that supports the underlying approach, which then leads to the overconfident nonsense one hears from friends and neighbors, or reads in this thread.  For those who don't adhere to either of those basic philosophies, the lack of any solid information combined with the politicization of the issue leave us twisting in the wind a bit.   

Someone noted above that we should be thinking locally, which I agree with 100%.  I feel bad for the northeast, and I have friends and family up there.  I'm not naive enough to think that what is going on in NYC has any direct causation to what we should be doing in Texas.  We should be paying attention to it, to be sure, and helping if we can, but we have to determine what makes the most sense locally based on what is happening locally.

[Guest Lobo]

If not wearing a mask in public is the ultimate expression of how much you love freedom, wouldn't going into public and coughing on people make you the ultimate badass?  Or is that bad manners?  

[Samson's Wig 3179]

12 minutes ago, Lobo said:

If not wearing a mask in public is the ultimate expression of how much you love freedom, wouldn't going into public and coughing on people make you the ultimate badass?  Or is that bad manners?  

Everyone loves an antihero.  

[mdmost 42844]

Yeah but Boba Fett wore a mask. 

[Scary Stranger 1712]

2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Yeah but Boba Fett wore a mask. 

And he died.

Ballgame.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Scary Stranger

[Js1 85095]

3 minutes ago, Scary Stranger said:

And he died.

Ballgame.

Allegedly. Just what the galactic liberal media wants you to believe 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13010]

56 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

That’s why I said not as contagious.  I’d never say it’s not contagious.  

I was just expanding on your comment, not arguing it.

[ChiTownDoc 21098]

1 minute ago, Casual Encounter said:

I was just expanding on your comment, not arguing it.

Got you.  I appreciate it anytime someone chimes in on mental health.  It’s a huge issue that’s a stain on society.  We just throw so many of those people away as ‘crazy’.  

[utee94 15745]

3 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

I was just expanding on your comment, not arguing it.

 

Just now, ChiTownDoc said:

Got you.  I appreciate it anytime someone chimes in on mental health.  It’s a huge issue that’s a stain on society.  We just throw so many of those people away as ‘crazy’.  

Yeah I appreciate the further detail from @Casual Encounter.  I had no idea it was so prevalent among the children.  Makes sense though.

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13010]

4 minutes ago, utee94 said:

 

Yeah I appreciate the further detail from @Casual Encounter.  I had no idea it was so prevalent among the children.  Makes sense though.

It doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll commit suicide soon, but they’re 50% more likely to take that out at some point in their life. We do mimic our parents in so many ways, naturally. It becomes a viscous cycle when the kids of suicide victims have their own kids, and then commit suicide. Rinse and repeat, often so far apart the sequence is not realized except by family.

[Guest Lobo]

^
yep on a thread of depressing and eye opening statistics, that one stood out to me.  

[Doc Reeves 6434]

Welp.

 

 Just rub a ‘lil CBD on that

A team of Canadian scientists believes it has found strong strains of cannabis that could help prevent or treat coronavirus infections, according to interviews and a study.

Researchers from the University of Lethbridge said a study in April showed at least 13 cannabis plants were high in CBD that appeared to affect the ACE2 pathways that the bug uses to access the body.

“We were totally stunned at first, and then we were really happy,” one of the researchers, Olga Kovalchuk, told CTV News.

The results, printed in online journal Preprints, indicated hemp extracts high in CBD may help block proteins that provide a “gateway” for COVID-19 to enter host cells.

Kovalchuk’s husband, Igor, suggested cannabis could reduce the virus’ entry points by up to 70 percent. “Therefore, you have more chance to fight it,” he told CTV.

“Our work could have a huge influence — there aren’t many drugs that have the potential of reducing infection by 70 to 80 percent,” he told the Calgary Herald.

While they stressed that more research was needed, the study gave hope that the cannabis, if proven to modulate the enzyme, “may prove a plausible strategy for decreasing disease susceptibility” as well as “become a useful and safe addition to the treatment of COVID-19 as an adjunct therapy.”

Cannabis could even be used to “develop easy-to-use preventative treatments in the form of mouthwash and throat gargle products,” the study suggested, with a “potential to decrease viral entry” through the mouth.

“The key thing is not that any cannabis you would pick up at the store will do the trick,” Olga told CTV, with the study suggesting just a handful of more than 800 varieties of sativa seemed to help.

All were high in anti-inflammatory CBD — but low in THC, the part that produces the cannabis high.

The study, which has yet to be peer-reviewed, was carried out in partnership with Pathway Rx, a cannabis therapy research company, and Swysh Inc., a cannabinoid-based research company.

The researchers are seeking funding to continue their efforts to support scientific initiatives to address COVID-19.

“While our most effective extracts require further large-scale validation, our study is crucial for the future analysis of the effects of medical cannabis on COVID-19,” the research said.

“Given the current dire and rapidly evolving epidemiological situation, every possible therapeutic opportunity and avenue must be considered.”

[StruggleBus 3922]

23 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Got you.  I appreciate it anytime someone chimes in on mental health.  It’s a huge issue that’s a stain on society.  We just throw so many of those people away as ‘crazy’.  

Would you prefer to recycle them instead?

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13010]

1 minute ago, StruggleBus said:

Would you prefer to recycle them instead?

Repurpose.

[Newdoc 3429]

14 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

every possible therapeutic opportunity and avenue must be considered.”

Ummm no. Maybe the reasonable ones. Otherwise we will end up chasing our tails and wasting resources or in this case, eating a lot of Taco Bell and Cheetos.

And the study is sponsored by groups interested in pushing CBD. I’m sure they are as trustworthy as big pharma.

[JBJ 3648]

Reopening doesn't seem to be changing the trend yet, as things continue to normalize I am still expecting something to happen.

I adjusted the scale of the transmission trend (lower left blue) so that the more recent data is distinguishable. 

The herd immunity trend (lower left orange) was re-scaled as well for R0=3.  The top of the chart is the required resistance for Rt=1, which is where the peak of the infection curve occurs.  I plan on adjusting this as we go based on the changing trend and new studies.  It's still a guess.

[Skipper 6103]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

We could make a huge difference if masks were distributed and everyone used them, but that has become cr so half the country refuses to do it and a very simple way to contain this virus before a vaccine is useless. 

I agree with this.  I also think it was a massive mistake in hindsight for the govt to initially indicate masks were of limited benefit.  I know WHY they did it.  To stop the hoarding of N95 masks because we were so massively under prepared (actually that is the biggest mistake) but that misdirection gave a bunch of the anti-maskers all the ammo they need to try to justify refusing to wear one.

[dcbc 14404]

12 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Cameron Crowe said he realized it in post production but said fuck it, but had no idea it would be such an issue.  said he would have redone that scene in retrospect.

I didn't realize he had much involvement in the film other than his writing the screenplay.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

11 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

Ummm no. Maybe the reasonable ones. Otherwise we will end up chasing our tails and wasting resources or in this case, eating a lot of Taco Bell and Cheetos.

And the study is sponsored by groups interested in pushing CBD. I’m sure they are as trustworthy as big pharma.

Are you telling me Essential Oils don't work? Because I know a bunch of people on Facebook who will tell you differently. 

[Foosters 17727]

34 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

Welp.

 

 Just rub a ‘lil CBD on that

A team of Canadian scientists believes it has found strong strains of cannabis that could help prevent or treat coronavirus infections, according to interviews and a study.

Researchers from the University of Lethbridge said a study in April showed at least 13 cannabis plants were high in CBD that appeared to affect the ACE2 pathways that the bug uses to access the body.

“We were totally stunned at first, and then we were really happy,” one of the researchers, Olga Kovalchuk, told CTV News.

The results, printed in online journal Preprints, indicated hemp extracts high in CBD may help block proteins that provide a “gateway” for COVID-19 to enter host cells.

Kovalchuk’s husband, Igor, suggested cannabis could reduce the virus’ entry points by up to 70 percent. “Therefore, you have more chance to fight it,” he told CTV.

“Our work could have a huge influence — there aren’t many drugs that have the potential of reducing infection by 70 to 80 percent,” he told the Calgary Herald.

While they stressed that more research was needed, the study gave hope that the cannabis, if proven to modulate the enzyme, “may prove a plausible strategy for decreasing disease susceptibility” as well as “become a useful and safe addition to the treatment of COVID-19 as an adjunct therapy.”

Cannabis could even be used to “develop easy-to-use preventative treatments in the form of mouthwash and throat gargle products,” the study suggested, with a “potential to decrease viral entry” through the mouth.

“The key thing is not that any cannabis you would pick up at the store will do the trick,” Olga told CTV, with the study suggesting just a handful of more than 800 varieties of sativa seemed to help.

All were high in anti-inflammatory CBD — but low in THC, the part that produces the cannabis high.

The study, which has yet to be peer-reviewed, was carried out in partnership with Pathway Rx, a cannabis therapy research company, and Swysh Inc., a cannabinoid-based research company.

The researchers are seeking funding to continue their efforts to support scientific initiatives to address COVID-19.

“While our most effective extracts require further large-scale validation, our study is crucial for the future analysis of the effects of medical cannabis on COVID-19,” the research said.

“Given the current dire and rapidly evolving epidemiological situation, every possible therapeutic opportunity and avenue must be considered.”

[Newdoc 3429]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Are you telling me Essential Oils don't work? Because I know a bunch of people on Facebook who will tell you differently. 

Yes, these are the same people that tout the oils and slam the masks because apparently you suffocate on your own CO2.

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13010]

6 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Are you telling me Essential Oils don't work? Because I know a bunch of people on Facebook who will tell you differently. 

They’re essential, duh!