Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Not really - just because Texas has less deaths than NYC doesn't mean they were any smarter.  Texas will almost certainly end up with less deaths per capita vs NYC.  There's a ton of other factors like population density.  Science tells you what the best practices are.  Areas where wearing masks was seen as some political statement, so a certain group of people refused to wear them?  Yeah, we can already judge those people. 

I live in Texas.  I’ve seen damn near universal mask wearing indoors.  
 

Cali is spiking like a motherfucker right now.  They wear masks, don’t they?

Edited June 25, 2020 by Johnny Sack

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

4 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

You keep claiming that the virus is less potent now. Have you seen something that indicates that the seemingly decreased potency is not simply a result of the different age profile of this recent wave of cases?

The median age of Florida COVID patients dropped from 65 to 35. Given the CFR for 65 year olds is something like 20-50x higher than for 35 year olds, that age shift in the cases could have a dramatic effect on the overall CFR, even if the disease is no less potent than before at any given age group.

I don't know maybe the fact we cover well over 400 damn nursing homes.  We have literally dozens of these facilities with over 75-100 cases in each and the outcomes/percentages dying now are a MASSIVE difference (lower) vs the spring. We cover post acute networks for places Baylor Scott White, NW, Cleveland Clinic, UM and on and on and on.  I'm not pulling some shit out of 1 or 2 places.  Believe it or not the profile of nursing home patients/residents has not changed between spring and now.  I promise you that. 

Edited June 25, 2020 by ChiTownDoc

[Newdoc 3440]

8 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

The average person is dumb as shit.  Leaders need to lead by example.  As we have seen, a lot of them are dumb as shit too.  

[Scheiss Meister 8407]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

Three states with 20x our Covid death rate.  Yeah. Texas is the shithole in this equation. 

Or maybe they have already been where Texas and the other red lined states are heading and have positively no intention of going back there.  You know, learning from their experiences, like you should.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

I live in Texas.  I’ve seen damn near universal mask wearing.  
 

Cali is spiking like a motherfucker right now.  They wear masks, don’t they?

You're the exception - and a lot of places/people have more recently started wearing masks.  I don't need to dig back through all these pages to show people weren't wearing masks in large numbers in Texas.  There were people counting and posting in various places  Also - I should definitely mention opening up early is a huge factor also, if that needs to be mentioned.  I even said I tend to wear one when I get in close quarters.  I'm mainly calling out the significant portion of the population that legit REFUSES to wear a mask no matter what the fuck is going on or where the fuck they are at.  

[washparkhorn 9939]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

Cali is spiking like a motherfucker right now.  They wear masks, don’t they?

Extremely populous State. A small minority is a huge number. California - 39,000,000; Texas (2nd) 28,000,000. LA was always the weak link. 

[BrickHorn 18234]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I don't know maybe the fact we cover well over 400 damn nursing homes.  We have literally dozens of these faciliteis with over 75-100 cases in each and the outcomes/percentages dying now are a MASSIVE difference (lower) vs the spring. We cover post acute networks for places Baylor Scott White, NW, Cleveland Clinic, UM and on and on and on.  I'm not pulling some shit out of 1 or 2 places.  Believe it or not the profile of nursing home patients/residents has not changed between spring and now.  I promise you that. 

Relax, doc. Just curious as to the basis for your observations. 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

Just now, BrickHorn said:

Relax, doc. Just curious as to the basis for your observations. 

Running hot because my idiot cousin had to be told not to take grandma on a road trip to AZ.  Lubbock gonna Lubbock.  

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

Shit - sorry everyone.  I said I wouldn't be the overly dramatic nancy I hated reading on these forums and I clearly became one the last several posts.  I'll go back to trying to post facts without being a bitch or I told you so asshole.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

You're the exception - and a lot of places/people have more recently started wearing masks.  I don't need to dig back through all these pages to show people weren't wearing masks in large numbers in Texas.  There were people counting and posting in various places  Also - I should definitely mention opening up early is a huge factor also, if that needs to be mentioned.  I even said I tend to wear one when I get in close quarters.  I'm mainly calling out the significant portion of the population that legit REFUSES to wear a mask no matter what the fuck is going on or where the fuck they are at.  

I’ve worn masks indoors since early March.  My experience has been most Texans do.  Whether I’m in inner loop Houston, Freer, Pearsall, Dallas, many of the other cities I’ve been in.  
 

Now masks are even more prevalent since the spikes.  Which is a good thing.  I’m not anti mask.  I’m just not real certain Texans wear masks at a lower rate than average.  I am open to data on it.  
 

[DDD Dad 14339]

Shit - sorry everyone.  I said I wouldn't be the overly dramatic nancy I hated reading on these forums and I clearly became one the last several posts.  I'll go back to trying to post facts without being a bitch or I told you so asshole.  

It’s all good.

I have to say I would like to know more on your thoughts on why you think the virus has become less deadly.

I get the anecdotal observations but to me it just seems like there isn’t enough evidence to draw any conclusions.

[heso 2794]

9 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Extremely populous State. A small minority is a huge number. California - 39,000,000; Texas (2nd) 28,000,000. LA was always the weak link. 

The big difference being that 65% of the California cases are all in LA and surrounding counties. The Texas outbreaks are spread all over the map

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

3 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

It’s all good.

I have to say I would like to know more on your thoughts on why you think the virus has become less deadly.

I get the anecdotal observations but to me it just seems like there isn’t enough evidence to draw any conclusions.

I’ll look but I’m pretty sure cases have far outpaced deaths now compared to spring.  I’ll dig through some data tomorrow.  Mostly a telemedicine day - which I’ve grown to hate.  

[atomheartbevo 89664]

7 hours ago, UT_OB1 said:

We have had to send a number of people home (or they never came i at all) if they found out they were near someone that had tested positive. 

It was a trap.  That's exactly what covid was expecting you to do.

[DDD Dad 14339]

I’ll look but I’m pretty sure cases have far outpaced deaths now compared to spring.  I’ll dig through some data tomorrow.  Mostly a telemedicine day - which I’ve grown to hate.  

How much of the cases outpacing deaths would you attribute to testing, though? So hard to keep all of this in perspective.

[heso 2794]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I’ll look but I’m pretty sure cases have far outpaced deaths now compared to spring.  I’ll dig through some data tomorrow.  Mostly a telemedicine day - which I’ve grown to hate.  

Curious how much of that is due to increased testing. Looking at NYC likely having it rip through the city before anyone knew it was there and testing not coming in until only the worst cases were leaving their houses to get tested vs the current outbreaks being tested in real time. 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

1 minute ago, heso said:

Curious how much of that is due to increased testing. Looking at NYC likely having it rip through the city before anyone knew it was there and testing not coming in until only the worst cases were leaving their houses to get tested vs the current outbreaks being tested in real time. 

True but it works both ways.  We were getting a LOT of deaths in early March and nobody was testing the dead - in retrospect it sure seemed a lot of those were C19.  

[BradInATX 9208]

Median age of cases is down across the board. Younger people getting it more surely makes up a big chunk of why the death rate is going down. I'm sure there are other more scientific reasons but Occams razor and all that. I did see ChiTown talk about seeing less deaths even in nursing homes which is interesting. Hopefully we get some broad studies on that soon. We could all use some good news these days

 

 

 

 

[dcar00 14195]

11 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

It’s all good.

I have to say I would like to know more on your thoughts on why you think the virus has become less deadly.

I get the anecdotal observations but to me it just seems like there isn’t enough evidence to draw any conclusions.

It should be obvious by now that Texas and California have the more deadly strain, NY/NJ have the less deadly strain, Missouri has the mid level deadly strain,  Arizona has nigh mid deadly strain.  Illinois is the low mid deadly strain I think.

[DDD Dad 14339]

It should be obvious by now that Texas and California have the more deadly strain, NY/NJ have the less deadly strain, Missouri has the mid level deadly strain,  Arizona has nigh mid deadly strain.  Illinois is the low mid deadly strain I think.

Wut?

[BradInATX 9208]

Forget it, he's rolling

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

23 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Shit - sorry everyone.  I said I wouldn't be the overly dramatic nancy I hated reading on these forums and I clearly became one the last several posts.  I'll go back to trying to post facts without being a bitch or I told you so asshole.  

You could start by explaining to me like a child, if what you're saying is there is a different virus that is less potent, or the same virus is now less potent? And what does that all mean? 

[Surly Bevo 24908]

Viruses tend to mutate. Often they mutate to something less potent that gives them less dead people because one thing that doesn’t help a virus is a fucking dead person.

I believe really was how 1918 pandemic came to an end. A shitload of dead and eventually the dumbass virus fingered it out.

Let’s hope this virus is smarter and won first place in some Chinese math competition.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

23 minutes ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

You could start by explaining to me like a child, if what you're saying is there is a different virus that is less potent, or the same virus is now less potent? And what does that all mean? 

SurlyBevo is right.  They mutate and often to a weaker version.  Also - All coronaviruses we know of tend to do worse in the summer.  Weakens their outer shell if I remember correctly but that’s off top of my head.  

Edited June 25, 2020 by ChiTownDoc

[atomheartbevo 89664]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

It's astonishing. I legitimately struggle to conceptualize in my brain how someone can have the thought process that leads to refusing to wear a thin piece of fabric on their face in order to reduce risk to others' lives.

"Wow, it's 65 degrees, I better throw on a fleece and make sure and post memes about how cold it's getting, along with a selfie on Facebook"

"You want me to wear a mask to help cut down on the number of Americans ending up in hospitals or even dying?  Fuck you!!"

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[StruggleBus 3922]

58 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Shit - sorry everyone.  I said I wouldn't be the overly dramatic nancy I hated reading on these forums and I clearly became one the last several posts.  I'll go back to trying to post facts without being a bitch or I told you so asshole.  

You have antibodies right? You can make up for it by going to Vegas and posting videos here. 

[Okie State 3821]

I mean, if you’ve got some kind of lung or breathing condition where wearing a mask is unbearable, what the fuck are you doing going to the grocery store in the midst of a pandemic that will likely kill you if you catch it?
None of my family has been inside a grocery store since mid March. 
How is this hard?

Because it's muh right to go and catch a virus if that's what I want to do! I die on my terms!

[XYZ 2154]

If heat weakens the virus, shouldn’t we be turning the air conditioning off everywhere?

[Guest Lobo]

Don’t touch that fucking thermostat, Karen! 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

11 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

We’re a nation of assholes who have joined the cult of individualism and American exceptionalism. And it’s literally killing us.

When we face a crisis that requires selflessness and considering the well being of others, we are literally incapable of meeting the challenge. We just can’t do it.

I mean....set almost everything else aside, if we’d just wear masks when out and about, that would do it, by and large. But we don’t just forget to do it. We refuse to do it, with a huge “FUCK YEW!” the whole way. Not all of us...but more than enough of us.

Being assholes is what made us great. We are not a docile, submissive people like Asians who do what they are told and wear masks without being forced to do so. We were going to struggle with this no matter what. Still we have done a shittier job as a country than I expected.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Iconoclast Texan

[VRHorn 718]

11 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I’ve worn masks indoors since early March.  My experience has been most Texans do.  Whether I’m in inner loop Houston, Freer, Pearsall, Dallas, many of the other cities I’ve been in.  
 

Now masks are even more prevalent since the spikes.  Which is a good thing.  I’m not anti mask.  I’m just not real certain Texans wear masks at a lower rate than average.  I am open to data on it.  
 

You keep saying this, but in a broad sense, it just isn't true. Maybe people are wearing masks where you are, but there are many places where masks are a rarity. While Dallas is good, Tarrant county is bad, for example.

We keep trying to tell you this, but the world doesn't revolve around you.

[Brisketexan 105139]

12 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Being assholes is what made us great. We are not a docile, submissive people like Asians who do what they are told and wear masks without being forced to do so. We were going to struggle with this no matter what. Still we have done a shittier job as a country than I expected.

De Tocqueville said otherwise.  We used to strike some semblance of a balance between individualism and acting for the common good.  We are very, very out of balance right now.  Balance is key.  Communism and the sacrifice of the individual completely?  Not where we want to go.  Utter sacrifice of the common good for whatever the individual wants?  Not where we want to be....but it's pretty close to where we are.  We are a fractured society -- and that goes far beyond the "we are so divided politically" acknowledgement.  We are fractured on the community, family, and individual basis.  And that's ultimately destructive -- we are by nature and biology a species that performs and survives best in community.  The individual should be allowed to achieve, but the good of the community matters, too.  And we've taken it to such absurd extremes that the IDEA of freedom has utterly trumped any concept of the VALUE of freedom.  

So, maybe you CAN refuse to wear a mask.....but the ethical question is SHOULD you refuse to wear a mask?  And a huge percentage of us are coming up with a really, really shitty answer to that.  They are equating the very concept of even having a right with the obligation to exercise that right no matter what.  Why?  Why not choose to wear a mask because it's the decent thing to do for the good of your fellow man?  I mean, it's the reason that I don't blare my music at 180 dbs at the beach -- I might have the RIGHT to do so.....but it would be rude and inconsiderate, so I don't.

When we sacrifice the common good on the altar of the individual, not because we should, but because we blindly insist that we CAN.......that's how you kill a community (which is all that any country/nation is).

[BradInATX 9208]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

De Tocqueville said otherwise.  We used to strike some semblance of a balance between individualism and acting for the common good.  We are very, very out of balance right now.  Balance is key.  Communism and the sacrifice of the individual completely?  Not where we want to go.  Utter sacrifice of the common good for whatever the individual wants?  Not where we want to be....but it's pretty close to where we are.  We are a fractured society -- and that goes far beyond the "we are so divided politically" acknowledgement.  We are fractured on the community, family, and individual basis.  And that's ultimately destructive -- we are by nature and biology a species that performs and survives best in community.  The individual should be allowed to achieve, but the good of the community matters, too.  And we've taken it to such absurd extremes that the IDEA of freedom has utterly trumped any concept of the VALUE of freedom.  

So, maybe you CAN refuse to wear a mask.....but the ethical question is SHOULD you refuse to wear a mask?  And a huge percentage of us are coming up with a really, really shitty answer to that.  They are equating the very concept of even having a right with the obligation to exercise that right no matter what.  Why?  Why not choose to wear a mask because it's the decent thing to do for the good of your fellow man?  I mean, it's the reason that I don't blare my music at 180 dbs at the beach -- I might have the RIGHT to do so.....but it would be rude and inconsiderate, so I don't.

When we sacrifice the common good on the altar of the individual, not because we should, but because we blindly insist that we CAN.......that's how you kill a community (which is all that any country/nation is).

 

Can you imagine if you took today's American population and time warped us back to WWII when Roosevelt asked people to limit their consumption of gas and butter and sugar to help with the war effort and the greater good?

We'd have people watering their yards with gasoline and eating sticks of butter for dinner just to make the point that they won't be told what to do.

Edited June 25, 2020 by BradInATX

[GHOSTUSER 361]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

De Tocqueville said otherwise.  We used to strike some semblance of a balance between individualism and acting for the common good.  We are very, very out of balance right now.  Balance is key.  Communism and the sacrifice of the individual completely?  Not where we want to go.  Utter sacrifice of the common good for whatever the individual wants?  Not where we want to be....but it's pretty close to where we are.  We are a fractured society -- and that goes far beyond the "we are so divided politically" acknowledgement.  We are fractured on the community, family, and individual basis.  And that's ultimately destructive -- we are by nature and biology a species that performs and survives best in community.  The individual should be allowed to achieve, but the good of the community matters, too.  And we've taken it to such absurd extremes that the IDEA of freedom has utterly trumped any concept of the VALUE of freedom.  

So, maybe you CAN refuse to wear a mask.....but the ethical question is SHOULD you refuse to wear a mask?  And a huge percentage of us are coming up with a really, really shitty answer to that.  They are equating the very concept of even having a right with the obligation to exercise that right no matter what.  Why?  Why not choose to wear a mask because it's the decent thing to do for the good of your fellow man?  I mean, it's the reason that I don't blare my music at 180 dbs at the beach -- I might have the RIGHT to do so.....but it would be rude and inconsiderate, so I don't.

When we sacrifice the common good on the altar of the individual, not because we should, but because we blindly insist that we CAN.......that's how you kill a community (which is all that any country/nation is).

Agreed. The muh rights and individual autonomy maximalism strain in conservatism is meeting its death. Communal good strain of conservatism is gaining strength. I am partial to Integralism (even though I’m not a Catholic) and common-good constitutionalism espoused by those like Adrian Vermeule 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Iconoclast Texan

[Brisketexan 105139]

2 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Agreed. The muh rights and individual autonomy maximalism strain in conservatism is meeting its death Communal good conservatism is gaining strength 

I know that seems fun to say and believe, but there is no meaningful evidence for that.  If anything, the evidence is in favor of the individualism strain reaching a fever pitch, so loud that it drowns out all alternatives.

This isn't a political issue (or it at least doesn't have to be).  It's a core moral and ethical issue.  And on that, we are failing, and failing badly.

[BradInATX 9208]

Yeah, @Brisketexan, I'd love to see Icono defend that statement. I think it's a pretty silly assertion given what we're watching happen in 2020. Even though I don't think the "muh rights and individual autonomy maximalism strain" as he described is really a trait of one party or the other. Like you said, it's really a societal thing. Though I think that discussion is probably better for the Cloak Room because it will inevitably turn partisan.

Edited June 25, 2020 by BradInATX

[Johnny Sack 8397]

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Johnny Sack

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

35 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

De Tocqueville said otherwise.  We used to strike some semblance of a balance between individualism and acting for the common good.  We are very, very out of balance right now.  Balance is key. 

100%. But I would add one qualifier. We, as a nation, hate hypocrisy. Hearing "OMG your killing grandma!" then watching protesters shoulder to shoulder thousands deep being praised vs. 1 week later hearing "OMG you are killing grandma!" again was the last straw for a some people. I get that.

But wear your masks and wash your hands people. It's just smart.

[Anastasis 23469]

11 hours ago, BradInATX said:

Median age of cases is down across the board.

The Millennials are saving the world?

[BradInATX 9208]

The Millennials are saving the world?

One avocado toast at a time

[Johnny Sack 8397]

58 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Not sure that putting Abbot, paralyzed, and hypocrisy in the same post fully gives the defense you intend. While I agree that the constant jokes about Abbot standing up for things, etc., are tired and not funny, his total about-stance on suing for intangible effects (e.g. pain and suffering, lost income, etc.) when he became Governor is pretty fucking distasteful given his successful lawsuit from his injury.

Lost income isn’t intangible.  And in paralysis cases more than 90 percent of damages is from future medical care.  Which isn’t intangible.  It’s a damage proved up with a medical doctor’s life plan along with an economist for time value of money.  

[ChickenSandwich 9836]

Update 6/24/20

May 1, 2020 - Beginning on May 1, 2020 (Friday), retail stores, restaurants, places of worship, movie theaters and malls will be allowed to operate at 25% capacity. The Travis County Fire Marshal's Office has provided a business reopening guidance.

Travis County Kung Flu Deaths - Cumulative total

3/27: 1 death

6/15: 104 deaths

6/16: 106 deaths

6/17:  108 deaths

6/18:  108 deaths

6/19: 108 deaths

6/20: 109 deaths

6/21: 110 deaths

6/22: 112 deaths

6/23: 114 deaths

6/24: 116 deaths

Last 10 Days: +12

 

Travis County Health Care Stats: Current numbers

6/15: Hp - 142, ICU - 52, Vent - 31

6/16: HP - 158, ICU - 59, Vent - 28

6/17: Hp - 173, ICU - 63, Vent - 26

6/18: Hp - 173, ICU - 63, Vent - 26

6/19: Hp - 173, ICU - 64, Vent - 27

6/20: Hp - 173, ICU- 64, Vent - 27

6/21: Hp - 173, ICU - 64, Vent - 27

6/22: Hp - 181, ICU - 86, Vent - 32

6/23: Hp - 236, ICU - 94, Vent - 34

6/24: Hp - 274, ICU - 106, Vent - 42

Last 10 Days: Hp: +132, ICU: +54,Vent: +11

Ten Day Average HP (rolling): 185.6

10 Day Avg on 6/11 - 91.5

https://austin.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/39e4f8d4acb0433baae6d15a931fa984

 

US Death Total 6/24/20

Nursing Home/Extended Care Deaths: 61,409 (54.4%)

Remaining Population (all ages):           51,567

Total:                                                         112,976

Top 5: Highest State Death Totals:

NY: 24,782

NJ: 12,995

Mass: 7,938

Pennsylvania: 6,515

Illinois: 6,580

 

Total: 58,810 (52.1% of total deaths)

Texas: 2,249

California: 5,725

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1ETm51GayRjlnoaRVtUOWfkolEeAQZ-zPhXkCbVe4_ik/htmlview#gid=43566737

Edited June 25, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

Not good, Bob.  

[atomheartbevo 89664]

1 hour ago, mycox said:

Add Bud Selig to the list as well

Only if you dig up Bud Adams's corpse and toss it into the mix.

 

[Eskimohorn 5635]

Travis County Kung Flu Deaths - Cumulative total

You’re like the disney animator who adds a porn image to Aladdin because they’re bored, except you’re doing it with death statistics, and instead of porn, it’s tired, unfunny, and politically-divisive puns.

How bout you drop the number 5318008 next time? Upside down it spells boobies.

[gmr548 16580]

Just waiting for the meteor strike as the cherry on top. 

Not happening. That'd constitute an improvement. No such thing is permitted in 2020.

[Anastasis 23469]

5 minutes ago, bullzak said:

No sports, corona, social strife, economic hardship, election year. 

Shit I am surprised it isn't worse. 

Just waiting for the meteor strike as the cherry on top. 

Me too. I've always been on the 72 hours from total societal collapse wagon. I am pretty amazed that we have held up this long. Basically boils down to power grid, water supply to urban areas, or gasoline. COVID gonna have to hit one of those to really have a chance for tipping over the edge. 

[Iceman 2710]

 

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Me too. I've always been on the 72 hours from total societal collapse wagon. I am pretty amazed that we have held up this long. Basically boils down to power grid, water supply to urban areas, or gasoline. COVID gonna have to hit one of those to really have a chance for tipping over the edge. 

Power grid  going out...LOLz.  Hurrications turn to shit after about the 4th or 5th day without AC.

Neighbors start turning on each other and some holy shit! moments ensue.  I mean people who WERE friends.   Can't imagine it with folks on "the other side" going at each other.

[Js1 85334]

19 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

 

You’re like the disney animator who adds a porn image to Aladdin because they’re bored, except you’re doing it with death statistics, and instead of porn, it’s tired, unfunny, and politically-divisive puns.

How bout you drop the number 5318008 next time? Upside down it spells boobies.

 

What if you type it twice?