Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[drt 638]

Spoiler

Prevalence of Self-Reported Obesity by State and Territory, BRFSS, 2018
State	Prevalence	95% Confidence Interval
Alabama	36.2	(34.6, 37.9)
Alaska	29.5	(27.0, 32.2)
Arizona	29.5	(27.8, 31.3)
Arkansas	37.1	(35.1, 39.1)
California	25.8	(24.8, 26.9)
Colorado	23.0	(21.9, 24.0)
Connecticut	27.4	(26.2, 28.7)
Delaware	33.5	(31.7, 35.4)
District of Columbia	24.7	(22.9, 26.5)
Florida	30.7	(29.1, 32.3)
Georgia	32.5	(31.2, 33.8)
Guam	29.8	(26.6, 33.3)
Hawaii	24.9	(23.6, 26.3)
Idaho	28.4	(26.3, 30.5)
Illinois	31.8	(30.2, 33.4)
Indiana	34.1	(32.6, 35.6)
Iowa	35.3	(34.2, 36.5)
Kansas	34.4	(33.2, 35.6)
Kentucky	36.6	(34.9, 38.4)
Louisiana	36.8	(34.9, 38.7)
Maine	30.4	(28.9, 31.9)
Maryland	30.9	(29.8, 32.1)
Massachusetts	25.7	(24.3, 27.2)
Michigan	33.0	(31.8, 34.2)
Minnesota	30.1	(29.2, 30.9)
Mississippi	39.5	(37.8, 41.2)
Missouri	35.0	(33.3, 36.8)
Montana	26.9	(25.2, 28.5)
Nebraska	34.1	(32.9, 35.3)
Nevada	29.5	(27.1, 32.0)
New Hampshire	29.6	(27.9, 31.4)
New Jersey	25.7	(23.3, 28.2)
New Mexico	32.3	(30.7, 34.0)
New York	27.6	(26.7, 28.6)
North Carolina	33.0	(31.2, 34.8)
North Dakota	35.1	(33.3, 37.0)
Ohio	34.0	(32.7, 35.3)
Oklahoma	34.8	(33.1, 36.6)
Oregon	29.9	(28.4, 31.4)
Pennsylvania	30.9	(29.4, 32.5)
Puerto Rico	32.9	(31.2, 34.7)
Rhode Island	27.7	(26.0, 29.5)
South Carolina	34.3	(33.0, 35.6)
South Dakota	30.1	(28.1, 32.1)
Tennessee	34.4	(32.5, 36.3)
Texas	34.8	(32.8, 36.8)
Utah	27.8	(26.7, 28.9)
Vermont	27.5	(25.9, 29.2)
Virginia	30.4	(29.1, 31.6)
Washington	28.7	(27.6, 29.8)
West Virginia	39.5	(37.8, 41.3)
Wisconsin	32.0	(30.2, 33.8)
Wyoming	29.0	(27.3, 30.8)

It's not in the margin of error.  Texas is significantly fatter than NY, NJ, MASS etc, as are most southern states.  Has been a trend as long as the CDC has been keeping stats on it.

I'm not sure what your hard on for the NE is, but I don't agree that our current surge in Texas was always going to hit these numbers.  We fucked up by not mandating masks and keeping reasonable social distancing restrictions in place, and then doubled down by moving through reopening stages at a fast enough rate that it wasn't possible to quantify the effects of the changes we made.

[gmr548 16576]

old fat unhealthy folks are everywhere.
 

Never been to Texas, I see.

[atomheartbevo 89630]

56 minutes ago, drt said:

Technically, the entire country has plenty.  But the south has more, percentage wise.

SECSECSEC!

Somewhere, an aggy is looking at this chart, and and losing his shit over the colors.

[Burt Macklin 19020]

13 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Could give tours of it..maybe a bundle deal with tours of the Vikings stadium?

I can see it now. “Coming up on the left is a building housing a team that’s won 0 championships. On your right is also a building housing a team that’s won 0 championships.”

[VolenteHawk 495]

6 hours ago, drt said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Prevalence of Self-Reported Obesity by State and Territory, BRFSS, 2018
State	Prevalence	95% Confidence Interval
Alabama	36.2	(34.6, 37.9)
Alaska	29.5	(27.0, 32.2)
Arizona	29.5	(27.8, 31.3)
Arkansas	37.1	(35.1, 39.1)
California	25.8	(24.8, 26.9)
Colorado	23.0	(21.9, 24.0)
Connecticut	27.4	(26.2, 28.7)
Delaware	33.5	(31.7, 35.4)
District of Columbia	24.7	(22.9, 26.5)
Florida	30.7	(29.1, 32.3)
Georgia	32.5	(31.2, 33.8)
Guam	29.8	(26.6, 33.3)
Hawaii	24.9	(23.6, 26.3)
Idaho	28.4	(26.3, 30.5)
Illinois	31.8	(30.2, 33.4)
Indiana	34.1	(32.6, 35.6)
Iowa	35.3	(34.2, 36.5)
Kansas	34.4	(33.2, 35.6)
Kentucky	36.6	(34.9, 38.4)
Louisiana	36.8	(34.9, 38.7)
Maine	30.4	(28.9, 31.9)
Maryland	30.9	(29.8, 32.1)
Massachusetts	25.7	(24.3, 27.2)
Michigan	33.0	(31.8, 34.2)
Minnesota	30.1	(29.2, 30.9)
Mississippi	39.5	(37.8, 41.2)
Missouri	35.0	(33.3, 36.8)
Montana	26.9	(25.2, 28.5)
Nebraska	34.1	(32.9, 35.3)
Nevada	29.5	(27.1, 32.0)
New Hampshire	29.6	(27.9, 31.4)
New Jersey	25.7	(23.3, 28.2)
New Mexico	32.3	(30.7, 34.0)
New York	27.6	(26.7, 28.6)
North Carolina	33.0	(31.2, 34.8)
North Dakota	35.1	(33.3, 37.0)
Ohio	34.0	(32.7, 35.3)
Oklahoma	34.8	(33.1, 36.6)
Oregon	29.9	(28.4, 31.4)
Pennsylvania	30.9	(29.4, 32.5)
Puerto Rico	32.9	(31.2, 34.7)
Rhode Island	27.7	(26.0, 29.5)
South Carolina	34.3	(33.0, 35.6)
South Dakota	30.1	(28.1, 32.1)
Tennessee	34.4	(32.5, 36.3)
Texas	34.8	(32.8, 36.8)
Utah	27.8	(26.7, 28.9)
Vermont	27.5	(25.9, 29.2)
Virginia	30.4	(29.1, 31.6)
Washington	28.7	(27.6, 29.8)
West Virginia	39.5	(37.8, 41.3)
Wisconsin	32.0	(30.2, 33.8)
Wyoming	29.0	(27.3, 30.8)

It's not in the margin of error.  Texas is significantly fatter than NY, NJ, MASS etc, as are most southern states.  Has been a trend as long as the CDC has been keeping stats on it.

I'm not sure what your hard on for the NE is, but I don't agree that our current surge in Texas was always going to hit these numbers.  We fucked up by not mandating masks and keeping reasonable social distancing restrictions in place, and then doubled down by moving through reopening stages at a fast enough rate that it wasn't possible to quantify the effects of the changes we made.

Texas certainly moved too quickly through reopening phases, but I don’t know how much that has to do with the current numbers...if that is the primary reason it makes California pretty hard to explain, for example. I think dcar is right. While we shut down places that didn’t have much of an outbreak (like Texas and California) for good reasons, it was too early. So we took 8-10 weeks of good compliance to SIP (compliance that we’ll never get again) and, while building up supplies and learning, we created pent up demand to do something, anything social.

Mask usage and social distancing compliance has been extremely high in my observation for several weeks now, but it took the outbreak to get there. Without a significantly harsher lockdown March to May, Texas was always going to have a pretty harsh first wave, we just waited until now to get there.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

23 minutes ago, VolenteHawk said:

Without a significantly harsher lockdown March to May, Texas was always going to have a pretty harsh first wave, we just waited until now to get there.

In my opinion, if we hadn’t shut down in March it would have been much worse, with schools and mass gatherings open until June. That would have been criminal.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Judge Roybeanbag

[SHOOTER12 8800]

On 7/2/2020 at 2:59 PM, Brisketexan said:

IFR of 10X-40X that of the flu.  That's....not good.  If the rate of transmission is materially higher, you're looking at even more deaths than just a 10-40X IFR would yield.  Also....not good.

Now, perhaps new treatment protocols etc. can knock down that IFR a bit.  But the main thing we can control is the transmission rate. So, you know, masks, avoid crowded indoor spaces, etc.  Until a vaccine.  Shit.

Dammit you know common sense, logical thought and consideration have no place in the world today.

WassamattaU?

[VolenteHawk 495]

7 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

In my opinion, if we hadn’t shut down in March it would have been much worse, with schools and mass gatherings open until June. That would have been criminal.

I’m not talking about school closings and big gatherings, those were positive. I’m talking about shelter in place without making the lockdown drastic enough to actually choke the virus out...that policy was just kicking the can down the road.

And whatever numbers are in your head for what the first wave would have been like, hang on...we ain’t peaked yet.

[SHOOTER12 8800]

12 minutes ago, VolenteHawk said:

I’m not talking about school closings and big gatherings, those were positive. I’m talking about shelter in place without making the lockdown drastic enough to actually choke the virus out...that policy was just kicking the can down the road.

And whatever numbers are in your head for what the first wave would have been like, hang on...we ain’t peaked yet.

100% what I believe.  The beast has yet to fully raise it's ugly head.

[gmr548 16576]

SECSECSEC!
Somewhere, an aggy is looking at this chart, and and losing his shit over the colors.

It just weighs more.

[El Diablo 4232]

20 hours ago, elfenix said:

they should consult south austin's mom

She's a meat packing plant.

[ChiTownDoc 21144]

11 hours ago, dcar00 said:

since the sooner is throwing out theories about weakening virusi (with disclaimers of course), here my occams razor theory

this virus is the same. 

1.the NorthEast is a place where everyone lives on top of each other, rides mass transit and old fat unhealthy folks are everywhere.

2. the govts in the NE fucked everyone by pushing covid positive patients into nursing homes but they also saw it first in droves and weren't able to learn like other areas can now

3. NE should have been quarantined asap - but no can't do that because muh states rights

4. we should have shut down all incoming travel immediately - mistake by the Feds

5. other areas should not have locked down(SIP) initially but because we were worried about medical resources(people and materials) we went sledgehammer everywhere - OK bad call looking back but I can see why

6. other areas open up and a lot of people say fuck it while watching protests but we know to protect the olds much better

7. we have also learned more from a medical practice and older(non bullet proof 20+ year olds)people do social distance and use masks

8. we were going to see a lower death rate than the NE - how much remains to be seen but its at least half IMO - hospitals were always going to get stressed when we opened - there is really no way around it unless you contact trace like crazy. narrator: We can't

9. my sooner like disclaimer - it could get really bad or it could get really good in the next 2 weeks

10. Italy!

 

Not bad at all.  I really like the cutting off travel between states too.  It wouldn’t have fixed things  but it would likely have been a lot better.  And yes if we could have contact traced like crazy it’s a game changer.  

Edit:  and the pushing C19 pts into nursing homes.  Why the fuck?  That’s like forcing fireworks displays in a dry forest.  Chicago never used one bed in the massive convention center overflow but we were still asked to discharge patients to nursing homes.  Just unreal.  

Edited July 10, 2020 by ChiTownDoc

[ChiTownDoc 21144]

2 hours ago, VolenteHawk said:

I’m not talking about school closings and big gatherings, those were positive. I’m talking about shelter in place without making the lockdown drastic enough to actually choke the virus out...that policy was just kicking the can down the road.

And whatever numbers are in your head for what the first wave would have been like, hang on...we ain’t peaked yet.

Nothing says the fall won’t be the worst of it.  Regular flu will be back too.  

[UT_OB1 2217]

4 hours ago, VolenteHawk said:

I’m not talking about school closings and big gatherings, those were positive. I’m talking about shelter in place without making the lockdown drastic enough to actually choke the virus out...that policy was just kicking the can down the road.

And whatever numbers are in your head for what the first wave would have been like, hang on...we ain’t peaked yet.

I'm not sure it would have been possible to shut down Texas or the US enough to choke the virus out, with our size, how spread out we are, and how much travel we have coming in and out.  We know now that there is a large percentage of people that get and spread the disease without showing any symptoms.  At just the Texas level, if we absolutely ground everything to a halt and "stopped" it during the March time frame, it just takes one person escaping NY or traveling from FL or Mexico to light it off again.  On a national level, a lot of people were all freaking the fuck out because milk, beef and pork prices were rising.  To shut down at the level to truly kill it off would cause anarchy.  I don't think people grasp what is required to keep goods produced, hospitals stocked, and the supply chain running to get those goods to everyone.  And even if we managed to do that, again, it just takes one flight in or travel from across one of our borders to light it all off.  Look at where Mexico is at now.  If we were 100% virus free, does anyone think we could realistically keep it from coming up from Mexico?

[Burt Macklin 19020]

4 hours ago, VolenteHawk said:

I’m not talking about school closings and big gatherings, those were positive. I’m talking about shelter in place without making the lockdown drastic enough to actually choke the virus out...that policy was just kicking the can down the road.

And whatever numbers are in your head for what the first wave would have been like, hang on...we ain’t peaked yet.

How do you think that ever would have been possible? Even if we could have theoretically enforced a strict enough lock down for long enough to choke the virus out (we couldn’t have), as soon as you open travel again, people will bring the virus here and ti would spread like crazy again, just like it did the first time. 

[StruggleBus 3922]

5 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

How do you think that ever would have been possible? Even if we could have theoretically enforced a strict enough lock down for long enough to choke the virus out (we couldn’t have), as soon as you open travel again, people will bring the virus here and ti would spread like crazy again, just like it did the first time. 

It's 100% impossible. This is going to spread and continue to spread no matter what. 

[Stella Link 534]

15 hours ago, B00M said:

Come the fuck on man.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/08/health/coronavirus-brain-damage-study-intl-hnk-scli-scn/index.html

(CNN)The novel coronavirus pandemic could lead to a wave of brain damage in infected patients, warned British researchers in a new study released Wednesday.

Experts at the University College London (UCL) were the latest to describe that Covid-19 could cause neurological complications including stroke, nerve damage, and potentially fatal brain inflammation -- even if the patients didn't show severe respiratory symptoms associated with the disease.

"We should be vigilant and look out for these complications in people who have had Covid-19," said joint senior author Dr. Michael Zandi in a UCL press release, warning that it remains to be seen "whether we will see an epidemic on a large scale of brain damage linked to the pandemic."

Follow-up studies will be necessary to understand the potential long-term neurological consequences of the pandemic, they said.

The study, published in the journal Brain, examined 43 patients treated at University College London Hospitals for either confirmed or suspected coronavirus, from April to May. They varied in age from 16 to 85, and showed a range of mild to severe symptoms.

Among these patients, researchers found 10 cases of "temporary brain dysfunction" and delirium; 12 cases of brain inflammation; eight cases of strokes; and eight cases of nerve damage.

Most of the patients who showed brain inflammation were diagnosed with a specific, rare and sometimes deadly condition known as Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM). Before the pandemic, the research team in London would see about one ADEM patient per month. During the study period, the number rose to at least one a week.

One woman hallucinated lions and monkeys in her house. Others reported numbness in their limbs or face, double vision, and disorientation. One severe patient was barely conscious, responding only when in pain

...

...

...

So, of I understand the article correctly, this is an example of the lingering effects of the Coronavirus....

 

 

 

[ChiTownDoc 21144]

On 7/8/2020 at 11:39 AM, Sbbruin said:

Those cows he nails all have to be high-risk beetussers, right?

How great a band name would ‘high-risk beetussers’ be?

[Stannis 232]

This morning Gilead released additional positive data on Remdesivir.  If I recall correctly, initial testing indicated that while Remdesivir was found to reduce hospital duration from an average of 15 to 11 days, there was no observed benefit on mortality.  The newly released data apparently shows that Remdesivir reduced the risk of death for severely sick patients by 62% compared with standard care alone.  The data comes from comparing 312 patients enrolled in a phase three trial who received Remdesivir with 818 patients in a "real-world restrospective cohort" who received standard of care with no Remdesivir.  This needs to be confirmed with a placebo-controlled, double-blind study.  But these initial results seem even more promising than the results that Dr. Fauci touted originally.  

Gilead Says Remdesivir Coronavirus Treatment Reduces Risk of Death

 

Quote

Gilead Sciences announced new findings Friday that its antiviral drug remdesivir reduced the risk of death for severely sick coronavirus patients by 62% compared with standard care alone, saying more research is needed.

The company said its analysis also found that remdesivir treatment was associated with “significantly improved clinical recovery.” The findings are being presented at the Virtual Covid-19 Conference as part of the 23rd International AIDS Conference, the company said.

Shares of Gilead rose more than 2% Friday on the news. 

The company said it analyzed data from 312 patients enrolled in its phase three trial and compared it with that of 818 patients in “a real-world retrospective cohort” with similar characteristics and disease severity who received standard care alone during the same time period as the phase three trial.

That means the company compared patients in its late-stage trial with patients receiving care in a real-world context. Different conditions in the different subsets of patients could complicate the findings.

“While not as vigorous as a randomized controlled trial, this analysis importantly draws from a realworld setting and serves as an important adjunct to clinical trial data, adding to our collective understanding of this virus and reflecting the extraordinary pace of the ongoing pandemic,” Dr. Susan Olender, of Columbia University Irving Medical Center, said in a statement.

The findings show that 7.6% of patients treated with remdesivir died compared with 12.5% of patients in the analysis who did not receive remdesivir treatment. The analysis also found that 74.4% of patients who received treatment with remdesivir recovered by day 14 compared with 59% of patients who received standard care alone. 

Gilead said its findings warrant more study in additional trials.

“We are working to broaden our understanding of the full utility of remdesivir,” Gilead’s Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Merdad Parsey, said in a statement. “To address the urgency of the continuing pandemic, we are sharing data with the research community as quickly as possible with the goal of providing transparent and timely updates on new developments with remdesivir.”

In late April, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases released preliminary results from its own study of remdesivir that showed patients who took the drug usually recovered after 11 days, four days faster than those who didn’t take it. However, the study did not find any statistically significant reduction in the risk of death among patients treated with remdesivir.

Gilead has previously released data from its own clinical trials of remdesivir that have also shown a hastened recovery time and a modest clinical benefit.

The NIAID findings led the Food and Drug Administration to issue an emergency use authorization for remdesivir, allowing doctors to use the drug on hospitalized Covid-19 patients. However, remdesivir has not undergone the same level of review as fully FDA-authorized drugs. There are still no FDA-authorized drugs to treat Covid-19.

Last week, the company announced the much-anticipated pricing for remdesivir, saying it would charge governments of developed countries $390 per vial. That comes to a price of $2,340 per patient, considering the company expects most patients to require six vials during their care.

However, Gilead said it would charge $520 per vial for U.S. private insurance companies. Gilead faced some backlash for charging a higher price in the United States, but the company defended itself, saying that’s simply a factor of the U.S. health-care system. 

Every drug in the U.S. has two list prices because of the country’s health-care system, Gilead CEO Daniel O’Day said in an interview last week with CNBC’s Meg Tirrell on “Squawk Box” after the announcement. He added that he stands by the pricing structure and that it will ensure access for those who need it. 

The company has been donating doses to the U.S. government for distribution since it received emergency use authorization in May. The Department of Health and Human Services said last week that it has secured more than 500,000 treatment courses of the drug, which it will distribute to American hospitals through September. HHS said the drug will be distributed to hospitals based on burden of Covid-19 patients. 

While remdesivir was the first drug that appeared to effectively treat Covid-19 patients in a clinical study, other therapeutics have shown signs of efficacy and could threaten to make remdesivir more obsolete. Researchers at Oxford University, for example, released results from their trial last month that showed dexamethasone, a cheap and widely available steroid, can cut the risk of death by a third for Covid-19 patients on ventilators, and by a fifth for those on supplemental oxygen.

 

 

[Txzen 498]

It will be interesting to see if the inhaled form has even greater benefit. 

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

On 7/9/2020 at 9:36 AM, achooloco said:

All city md locations? Damn it queens, stop being shitty!  I took the test for the second time at the same location (got a little careless on fathers day) and they wanted to charge this time but I haven’t gotten the bill yet.

Turn around time is not 2-3 days anymore at my location. It WAS when I first took the test before Memorial Day but was told at least a week now. Last time I took it on Sunday and got the results Tuesday mornIng; took it this past Monday and still no word today. 

Queens positive rate is the highest in the City, followed by the Bronx.  Manhattan is below 1%.  

Manhattan, leading in social distancing complaints, smallest percentage positive.  Interesting.  I think a lot of the complaints are coming from NIMBYs. They are all over NextDoor.

Edited July 10, 2020 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[Anastasis 23463]

2 hours ago, Stannis said:

This morning Gilead released additional positive data on Remdesivir.  If I recall correctly, initial testing indicated that while Remdesivir was found to reduce hospital duration from an average of 15 to 11 days, there was no observed benefit on mortality.  The newly released data apparently shows that Remdesivir reduced the risk of death for severely sick patients by 62% compared with standard care alone.  The data comes from comparing 312 patients enrolled in a phase three trial who received Remdesivir with 818 patients in a "real-world restrospective cohort" who received standard of care with no Remdesivir.  This needs to be confirmed with a placebo-controlled, double-blind study.  But these initial results seem even more promising than the results that Dr. Fauci touted originally.  

Gilead Says Remdesivir Coronavirus Treatment Reduces Risk of Death

 

 

 

This analysis is 100% garbage. 

 

ETA: to be clear the Gilead analysis, not your description re: the need for confirmation.

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Anastasis

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I think a lot of the complaints are coming from NIMBYs. They are all over NextDoor.

AKA Karen Central.

[Blotto 23491]

Wednesday and Thursday were the first two days the US cleared 60K new cases (approx 61K  each day). Today we cleared the 70K  threshold.

[clapclapclap 9000]

NBC doctor who they chronicled his fight and recovery from WuFlu has never tested positive for it.  And appears to have previously survived fake Ebola:

http://us20.forward-to-friend.com/forward/preview?u=938a7735818b4cfa61a5a191a&id=aeb202bc18

Spoiler

NBC tracked their medical expert's "coronavirus battle" - but he never had it "Joining me now [is] virologist Joseph Fair, who recently recovered from COVID-19 himself," said Chuck Todd on Meet The Press on June 14. "Dr. Fair, let me start with you because I would like you to share a little bit about your recovery from COVID-19. What should Americans take away from your experience?" "I don't have any of those underlying conditions, I'm 42 years old. So you wouldn't think, clinically, that I would be one of those people that would get so very ill. I can say that that seven to eight days prior to me hospitalizing myself when I was doing the self-treatment, that was the worst I've ever felt. I probably spent 23 out of 24 hours in bed," said Dr. Fair, who joined NBC as a science contributor in March as the coronavirus pandemic hit. "Those people that are young and think they're invincible or people that just don't think it's going to affect them that greatly even if they do get it, I can say that my own experience was the complete opposite." What Todd didn't tell the audience that day, and Dr. Joseph Fair didn't offer up either, was that Fair had already had at least five negative coronavirus tests. Two days ago on Twitter, Dr. Fair revealed the results of his antibody test - negative again. He never had COVID-19. And that's just the beginning of the troubling story.

In this newsletter on June 17, I detailed the full backstory of this strange media situation - from the changing symptoms as his TV appearances went on, to NBC and MSNBC initially telling viewers the caveat about the negative tests, to ultimately abandoning that key part of the story.  The circumstances were odd to begin with - Dr. Fair appeared on the Today show, and told his story. As a virologist and coronavirus expert, he took every precaution he could. But he said he likely contracted coronavirus through his eyes on an airplane. "If it can take me down, it can take down anybody," he said in that May 14 appearance. Dr. Fair has a long history as a "virus hunter" and virologist - and seems to have as long a history of getting publicity. On Meet The Press, he described the first week of supposedly having COVID-19 as "the worst I've ever felt." In replying to a Twitter follower this week, he said "It was only the second time I have been hospitalized in my life and I am someone who rarely gets ill." But a colleague and fellow TV coronavirus expert, Laurie Garrett, who frequently appears on CNN, tweeted in May that Dr. Fair, "has been in many epidemics, contracted #Ebola in West Africa." He contracted Ebola?  While I couldn't find any reference to Fair surviving Ebola, I did find Fair featured in a book about Ebola, "Crisis in the Red Zone," published just last year. The book describes Fair in 2006 when he was a graduate student, and it describes a time he "got sick" - very sick. "A devout Catholic, Fair asked a priest at the center to give him his final confession and the last rites," writes author Richard Preston. "'I think I'm passing,' Fair whispered." In the end, Fair took some antibiotics and made a miraculous recovery. But COVID-19 was worse than this experience? In 2014, Fair was profiled in the Washington Post, under the headline "A virus hunter faces the big one: Ebola." It began: "Joseph Fair hunts viruses. That’s his thing. The 37-year-old American loves chasing dangerous pathogens, studying them in secure labs or searching for them in jungles where the microbes lurk." The whole story details Dr. Fair's work with Ebola - no mention of the supposed near-death experience from 2006, however. And now we know Dr. Fair never had coronavirus, despite nearly a dozen appearances on NBC and MSNBC where he talked about having it or recovering from it. In the end, NBC's viewers were left with two very alarming - and false - impressions. First, that an expert virologist can take every precaution but can still catch COVID-19 through his eyes. False. Second, that tests can be so untrustworthy that you can have multiple negative tests and still have coronavirus. Craig Melvin described them as "false negative tests" in that initial report on May 14. Hoda Kotb said, "every time it came back negative, but clearly you have it." False. Anti-science. And truly damaging. In articles and TV segments, millions of NBC readers and viewers are today left with the impression that Dr. Joseph Fair, a 42-year-old "virus hunter" (with the handle @CureFinder on Twitter) came down with a case of COVID-19 through his eyes that was so severe he was hospitalized in ICU for several days and that at least five "false negative" tests couldn't trace it. This pandemic is scary enough without this false storyline introduced into the news picture.  So what really happened? We don't know. I asked several medical experts, and it's unclear what the story really is. In one later MSNBC appearance, Fair discussed having a "panic attack" right before going to the hospital. But we don't know. Fair did not respond to repeated requests for comment. NBC has declined to comment on the record throughout the past month. Fair has been regularly appearing on NBC and MSNBC, but has not been on the air since his tweet revealing the antibody test results on Tuesday. Shortly after I began making inquiries related to this story, Fair appeared on the Today show June 17 and was described as having recovered from a "possible covid-19 related illness." In that appearance, he said he would "absolutely" keep viewers posted on the results of the antibody test. So far, there have been no on-air corrections. Or online -this NBC News story is still uncorrected, for example. The Today show website wrote a brief story, where they now describe what he had as a "severe illness." For his Twitter followers, and likely NBC's viewers, many still believe Fair had coronavirus, despite the fact that he clearly didn't. Said one: "Your experience only makes me more determined to stay quarantined. We still don't have a clear path on testing, accuracy, treatments and most of all any understanding on why some are so impacted and others are not!"

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by clapclapclap
National Brianwilliams Corporation

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[VolenteHawk 495]

8 hours ago, UT_OB1 said:

I'm not sure it would have been possible to shut down Texas or the US enough to choke the virus out, with our size, how spread out we are, and how much travel we have coming in and out.  We know now that there is a large percentage of people that get and spread the disease without showing any symptoms.  At just the Texas level, if we absolutely ground everything to a halt and "stopped" it during the March time frame, it just takes one person escaping NY or traveling from FL or Mexico to light it off again.  On a national level, a lot of people were all freaking the fuck out because milk, beef and pork prices were rising.  To shut down at the level to truly kill it off would cause anarchy.  I don't think people grasp what is required to keep goods produced, hospitals stocked, and the supply chain running to get those goods to everyone.  And even if we managed to do that, again, it just takes one flight in or travel from across one of our borders to light it all off.  Look at where Mexico is at now.  If we were 100% virus free, does anyone think we could realistically keep it from coming up from Mexico?

 

8 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

How do you think that ever would have been possible? Even if we could have theoretically enforced a strict enough lock down for long enough to choke the virus out (we couldn’t have), as soon as you open travel again, people will bring the virus here and ti would spread like crazy again, just like it did the first time. 

Yeah, there is nowhere in the world that demonstrated it possible to do this. My bad.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, VolenteHawk said:

 

Yeah, there is nowhere in the world that demonstrated it possible to do this. My bad.

Outside of several Asian countries, New Zealand, and almost the entire continent of Europe, I suppose you have a point.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

NBC doctor who they chronicled his fight and recovery from WuFlu has never tested positive for it.  And appears to have previously survived fake Ebola:
http://us20.forward-to-friend.com/forward/preview?u=938a7735818b4cfa61a5a191a&id=aeb202bc18
Spoiler

NBC tracked their medical expert's "coronavirus battle" - but he never had it "Joining me now [is] virologist Joseph Fair, who recently recovered from COVID-19 himself," said Chuck Todd on Meet The Press on June 14. "Dr. Fair, let me start with you because I would like you to share a little bit about your recovery from COVID-19. What should Americans take away from your experience?" "I don't have any of those underlying conditions, I'm 42 years old. So you wouldn't think, clinically, that I would be one of those people that would get so very ill. I can say that that seven to eight days prior to me hospitalizing myself when I was doing the self-treatment, that was the worst I've ever felt. I probably spent 23 out of 24 hours in bed," said Dr. Fair, who joined NBC as a science contributor in March as the coronavirus pandemic hit. "Those people that are young and think they're invincible or people that just don't think it's going to affect them that greatly even if they do get it, I can say that my own experience was the complete opposite." What Todd didn't tell the audience that day, and Dr. Joseph Fair didn't offer up either, was that Fair had already had at least five negative coronavirus tests. Two days ago on Twitter, Dr. Fair revealed the results of his antibody test - negative again. He never had COVID-19. And that's just the beginning of the troubling story.

In this newsletter on June 17, I detailed the full backstory of this strange media situation - from the changing symptoms as his TV appearances went on, to NBC and MSNBC initially telling viewers the caveat about the negative tests, to ultimately abandoning that key part of the story.  The circumstances were odd to begin with - Dr. Fair appeared on the Today show, and told his story. As a virologist and coronavirus expert, he took every precaution he could. But he said he likely contracted coronavirus through his eyes on an airplane. "If it can take me down, it can take down anybody," he said in that May 14 appearance. Dr. Fair has a long history as a "virus hunter" and virologist - and seems to have as long a history of getting publicity. On Meet The Press, he described the first week of supposedly having COVID-19 as "the worst I've ever felt." In replying to a Twitter follower this week, he said "It was only the second time I have been hospitalized in my life and I am someone who rarely gets ill." But a colleague and fellow TV coronavirus expert, Laurie Garrett, who frequently appears on CNN, tweeted in May that Dr. Fair, "has been in many epidemics, contracted #Ebola in West Africa." He contracted Ebola?  While I couldn't find any reference to Fair surviving Ebola, I did find Fair featured in a book about Ebola, "Crisis in the Red Zone," published just last year. The book describes Fair in 2006 when he was a graduate student, and it describes a time he "got sick" - very sick. "A devout Catholic, Fair asked a priest at the center to give him his final confession and the last rites," writes author Richard Preston. "'I think I'm passing,' Fair whispered." In the end, Fair took some antibiotics and made a miraculous recovery. But COVID-19 was worse than this experience? In 2014, Fair was profiled in the Washington Post, under the headline "A virus hunter faces the big one: Ebola." It began: "Joseph Fair hunts viruses. That’s his thing. The 37-year-old American loves chasing dangerous pathogens, studying them in secure labs or searching for them in jungles where the microbes lurk." The whole story details Dr. Fair's work with Ebola - no mention of the supposed near-death experience from 2006, however. And now we know Dr. Fair never had coronavirus, despite nearly a dozen appearances on NBC and MSNBC where he talked about having it or recovering from it. In the end, NBC's viewers were left with two very alarming - and false - impressions. First, that an expert virologist can take every precaution but can still catch COVID-19 through his eyes. False. Second, that tests can be so untrustworthy that you can have multiple negative tests and still have coronavirus. Craig Melvin described them as "false negative tests" in that initial report on May 14. Hoda Kotb said, "every time it came back negative, but clearly you have it." False. Anti-science. And truly damaging. In articles and TV segments, millions of NBC readers and viewers are today left with the impression that Dr. Joseph Fair, a 42-year-old "virus hunter" (with the handle @CureFinder on Twitter) came down with a case of COVID-19 through his eyes that was so severe he was hospitalized in ICU for several days and that at least five "false negative" tests couldn't trace it. This pandemic is scary enough without this false storyline introduced into the news picture.  So what really happened? We don't know. I asked several medical experts, and it's unclear what the story really is. In one later MSNBC appearance, Fair discussed having a "panic attack" right before going to the hospital. But we don't know. Fair did not respond to repeated requests for comment. NBC has declined to comment on the record throughout the past month. Fair has been regularly appearing on NBC and MSNBC, but has not been on the air since his tweet revealing the antibody test results on Tuesday. Shortly after I began making inquiries related to this story, Fair appeared on the Today show June 17 and was described as having recovered from a "possible covid-19 related illness." In that appearance, he said he would "absolutely" keep viewers posted on the results of the antibody test. So far, there have been no on-air corrections. Or online -this NBC News story is still uncorrected, for example. The Today show website wrote a brief story, where they now describe what he had as a "severe illness." For his Twitter followers, and likely NBC's viewers, many still believe Fair had coronavirus, despite the fact that he clearly didn't. Said one: "Your experience only makes me more determined to stay quarantined. We still don't have a clear path on testing, accuracy, treatments and most of all any understanding on why some are so impacted and others are not!"

 

 

Brian Williams is a Doctor?

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

I check on this guy every once in a while. Seems like there’s a trend in the graphs by the hard hit areas.

[UT_OB1 2217]

27 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Outside of several Asian countries, New Zealand, and almost the entire continent of Europe, I suppose you have a point.

Almost the entire continent of Europe?  What is your criteria for better as well as for “almost the entire content” (population, land mass?)?  What Asian countries are you including?  4 of the 5 largest countries in Europe (UK, Spain, Italy, France) have killed a higher % of their population, with Germany obviously lapping the field in doing it right for large countries.
On a test per million, only UK has tested more. Interestingly, Germany has managed to keep their death rate down without throwing tests at the problem - they are only at ~60% of the per capita testing compared to the US, and half of the UKs testing.  

[Neonmoon 38129]

6 hours ago, Txzen said:

It will be interesting to see if the inhaled form has even greater benefit. 

 

What if you snort it? Asking for a friend 

[BradInATX 9208]

27 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

Almost the entire continent of Europe?  What is your criteria for better as well as for “almost the entire content” (population, land mass?)?  What Asian countries are you including?  4 of the 5 largest countries in Europe (UK, Spain, Italy, France) have killed a higher % of their population, with Germany obviously lapping the field in doing it right for large countries.
On a test per million, only UK has tested more. Interestingly, Germany has managed to keep their death rate down without throwing tests at the problem - they are only at ~60% of the per capita testing compared to the US, and half of the UKs testing.  

The discussion was about countries who have essentially choked the virus out to being almost negligible by putting in strict lockdowns and having a population that actually follows it. 

We are one of the few first world countries on this planet that has not done that yet: https://www.gzeromedia.com/the-graphic-truth-two-different-pandemics-eu-vs-us-coronavirus-cases-spike-28-june

This is Germany's curve. Almost every other first world country looks like this.

 

This.. is America:

 

 

 

You can talk about death rates based on the very early stages of Covid when nobody knew what it was, and when it hit Europe earlier and harder than the US. But the bottom line is, and there is absolutely no denying this, we as a country have been one of the worst on Earth in terms of mitigating the ongoing presence of Covid.

Almost every other modern country in the world has it down to a manageable number and is slowly getting back to normal. Meanwhile, we've never even gotten past our first wave and we, among such modern stalwarts as Russia and Brazil, are not allowed in to the countries who actually handled the pandemic well. And now, as the country who refused to shut everything down because we're freedom-lovers, we're now having to shut everything back down while the rest of the free modern world is getting back to normal.

You can blame whoever you want. You can blame Bill de Blasio or Andrew Cuomo or Greg Abbott or Donald Trump or the protests or the anti-maskers. Regardless of who you blame, there is no argument as to whether or not we have handled the pandemic poorly as a country. We have. We are an embarrassing example of what not to do for the rest of the world.

Edited July 11, 2020 by BradInATX

[atomheartbevo 89630]

47 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

4 of the 5 largest countries in Europe (UK, Spain, Italy, France) have killed a higher % of their population, 

How do we know that Germany wasn't involved with that?  Because they are pretty fucking good at killing the Brits and French, as well as getting Spaniards and Italians killed.

[atomheartbevo 89630]

27 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Meanwhile, we've never even gotten past our first wave and we, among such modern stalwarts as Russia and Brazil, are not allowed in to the countries who actually handled the pandemic well.

Brazil, Bolivia, Honduras have all had their leaders tested positive.  And Venezuela had one of their main party leaders get it.

 

[Hate 20107]

49 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

The discussion was about countries who have essentially choked the virus out to being almost negligible by putting in strict lockdowns and having a population that actually follows it. 

We are one of the few first world countries on this planet that has not done that yet: https://www.gzeromedia.com/the-graphic-truth-two-different-pandemics-eu-vs-us-coronavirus-cases-spike-28-june

This is Germany's curve. Almost every other first world country looks like this.

 

This.. is America:

 

 

 

You can talk about death rates based on the very early stages of Covid when nobody knew what it was, and when it hit Europe earlier and harder than the US. But the bottom line is, and there is absolutely no denying this, we as a country have been one of the worst on Earth in terms of mitigating the ongoing presence of Covid.

Almost every other modern country in the world has it down to a manageable number and is slowly getting back to normal. Meanwhile, we've never even gotten past our first wave and we, among such modern stalwarts as Russia and Brazil, are not allowed in to the countries who actually handled the pandemic well. And now, as the country who refused to shut everything down because we're freedom-lovers, we're now having to shut everything back down while the rest of the free modern world is getting back to normal.

You can blame whoever you want. You can blame Bill de Blasio or Andrew Cuomo or Greg Abbott or Donald Trump or the protests or the anti-maskers. Regardless of who you blame, there is no argument as to whether or not we have handled the pandemic poorly as a country. We have. We are an embarrassing example of what not to do for the rest of the world.

Honestly though there isn't another country that can compare to the US.  We are unique in this world for better or worse.  I wish that our country could somehow be united and do what needs to be done, but this country hasn't really truly been united since WWII.  I know there are plenty of places to point the finger, but I can't say that I'm really surprised given that our country is so fractured.  Also, I'm drunk.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

It’s just too hard for us to fight this virus like every other country and the entire European Union.  The mass death and economic devastation will be much easier to swallow!  
 

keep telling yourselves this morons. 

[Hate 20107]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s just too hard for us to fight this virus like every other country and the entire European Union.  The mass death and economic devastation will be much easier to swallow!  
 

keep telling yourselves this morons. 

Fuck off comrad.

[Sawbonz 27542]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

The discussion was about countries who have essentially choked the virus out to being almost negligible by putting in strict lockdowns and having a population that actually follows it. 

We are one of the few first world countries on this planet that has not done that yet: https://www.gzeromedia.com/the-graphic-truth-two-different-pandemics-eu-vs-us-coronavirus-cases-spike-28-june

This is Germany's curve. Almost every other first world country looks like this.

 

This.. is America:

 

 

 

You can talk about death rates based on the very early stages of Covid when nobody knew what it was, and when it hit Europe earlier and harder than the US. But the bottom line is, and there is absolutely no denying this, we as a country have been one of the worst on Earth in terms of mitigating the ongoing presence of Covid.

Almost every other modern country in the world has it down to a manageable number and is slowly getting back to normal. Meanwhile, we've never even gotten past our first wave and we, among such modern stalwarts as Russia and Brazil, are not allowed in to the countries who actually handled the pandemic well. And now, as the country who refused to shut everything down because we're freedom-lovers, we're now having to shut everything back down while the rest of the free modern world is getting back to normal.

You can blame whoever you want. You can blame Bill de Blasio or Andrew Cuomo or Greg Abbott or Donald Trump or the protests or the anti-maskers. Regardless of who you blame, there is no argument as to whether or not we have handled the pandemic poorly as a country. We have. We are an embarrassing example of what not to do for the rest of the world.

Too much testing! (a little CR)

[atomheartbevo 89630]

Florida finally opened up (their records) a bit more.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html

Quote

Another record-setting day of Covid-19 cases across the US came with a spotlight on Florida, which publicly released its number of coronavirus patients currently in the hospital after weeks of pressure to do so.

A total of 6,991 people are hospitalized because of the virus, the state's Agency for Health Care Administration said Friday.

Quote

Miami-Dade County in Florida on Friday reported a staggering 28% positivity rate, or the percentage of people tested who test positive for the coronavirus.

Quote

Mayor Carlos Gimenez's office said the goal is to not exceed a positivity rate of 10%, but the county has exceeded the 18% mark for the past 14 days. On Thursday, it was 33.5%.

Oops.  Kind of overshot the runway there.

Quote

Over the past 13 days, hospitalizations in Miami-Dade County have gone up by 74%, the number of beds in intensive care units being used has increased by 88% and the use of ventilators has soared by 123%, according to the latest data from the county government.

 

[TheFlyingBoat 906]

4 hours ago, BradInATX said:

The discussion was about countries who have essentially choked the virus out to being almost negligible by putting in strict lockdowns and having a population that actually follows it. 

We are one of the few first world countries on this planet that has not done that yet: https://www.gzeromedia.com/the-graphic-truth-two-different-pandemics-eu-vs-us-coronavirus-cases-spike-28-june

This is Germany's curve. Almost every other first world country looks like this.

 

This.. is America:

 

 

 

You can talk about death rates based on the very early stages of Covid when nobody knew what it was, and when it hit Europe earlier and harder than the US. But the bottom line is, and there is absolutely no denying this, we as a country have been one of the worst on Earth in terms of mitigating the ongoing presence of Covid.

Almost every other modern country in the world has it down to a manageable number and is slowly getting back to normal. Meanwhile, we've never even gotten past our first wave and we, among such modern stalwarts as Russia and Brazil, are not allowed in to the countries who actually handled the pandemic well. And now, as the country who refused to shut everything down because we're freedom-lovers, we're now having to shut everything back down while the rest of the free modern world is getting back to normal.

You can blame whoever you want. You can blame Bill de Blasio or Andrew Cuomo or Greg Abbott or Donald Trump or the protests or the anti-maskers. Regardless of who you blame, there is no argument as to whether or not we have handled the pandemic poorly as a country. We have. We are an embarrassing example of what not to do for the rest of the world.

This x 1000. I have no clue when other Americans started using American exceptionalism to justify failure instead of glorifying success. What the fuck has happened here? No other country is exactly like ours so it's OK for us to fail miserably while every other developed country has handled it better than ours and plenty of developing countries where 20 bucks a day in salary is considered pretty damn good somehow handled it better than we did. How is it not a sign of a catastrophic failure in everyone's eyes here that we have basically been embarrassing ourselves consistently on this issue? How is "we're different" a valid excuse in your eyes? How is it an excuse for every other failure?

 

American exceptionalism is supposed to be the reason we're better than everywhere else. More freedom of speech (meaning the government doesn't come after you, very weak slander/libel protections, etc.), better science (more Nobel Prizes, HiCi papers, etc.), better universities (more top 10, 50, 100 universities in the world), cultural center of the world (Hollywood, blue jeans, music, etc.), innovation center of the world, space center of the world, best governmental institutions in the world (you may scoff, but until now CDC and NIH were viewed as unparalleled by the rest of the world before this, the Fed was viewed as the most powerful and effective central bank, NASA is NASA, etc.), etc. and now somehow we went from winning WWI, WWII, the Cold War, beating Japan economically when we thought they may overtake us, to where we are today. How is anyone here pretending this isn't a gigantic, catastrophic failure and acting as thought it was always some fait accompli?

[Anastasis 23463]

9 hours ago, BradInATX said:

You can talk about death rates based on the very early stages of Covid when nobody knew what it was, and when it hit Europe earlier and harder than the US. But the bottom line is, and there is absolutely no denying this, we as a country have been one of the worst on Earth in terms of mitigating the ongoing presence of Covid.

I don't disagree with anything in your post at all, but presenting the case numbers alone, without also present the testing numbers and fatality numbers, doesn't really tell the whole tale. 

 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

I don't disagree with anything in your post at all, but presenting the case numbers alone, without also present the testing numbers and fatality numbers, doesn't really tell the whole tale. 

 

 

 

I mean if we're being pedantic that should be deaths per capita. And moving the number of tests up or down in Europe wouldn't change the shape of their curve at all, so it doesn't change the point of anything I said. We agree about case numbers being unreliable as we've hashed through on other thread, but their hospitalization curves look the exact same.

So I guess I'm not sure what your point is except to argue about nothing ala Seinfeld

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

I don't disagree with anything in your post at all, but presenting the case numbers alone, without also present the testing numbers and fatality numbers, doesn't really tell the whole tale. 


 
 

Per capita it’s about the same, 12% total of the U.S., 10%UK, 8%Germany...




One could say you could just take March-as close as early June’s “official” data and put a gigantic asterisk by it or toss it out the window with all of that missed data

And that’s with by all accounts inaccurate testing, unless it’s gotten a lot better than what we talked about before..

[Anastasis 23463]

ETA: Responding to Brad...

That chart is deaths per capita. And yes, we agree that case numbers are unreliable. I agree with the gist of everything you said, just think that we should not be looking at case numbers in isolation. In the final analysis when we compare our outcomes vs other countries, the primary measure for that comparison will be fatalities. 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Anastasis

[LABEVO 928]

 

[UT_OB1 2217]

13 hours ago, BradInATX said:

The discussion was about countries who have essentially choked the virus out to being almost negligible by putting in strict lockdowns and having a population that actually follows it. 

We are one of the few first world countries on this planet that has not done that yet: https://www.gzeromedia.com/the-graphic-truth-two-different-pandemics-eu-vs-us-coronavirus-cases-spike-28-june

This is Germany's curve. Almost every other first world country looks like this.

 

This.. is America:

 

 

 

You can talk about death rates based on the very early stages of Covid when nobody knew what it was, and when it hit Europe earlier and harder than the US. But the bottom line is, and there is absolutely no denying this, we as a country have been one of the worst on Earth in terms of mitigating the ongoing presence of Covid.

Almost every other modern country in the world has it down to a manageable number and is slowly getting back to normal. Meanwhile, we've never even gotten past our first wave and we, among such modern stalwarts as Russia and Brazil, are not allowed in to the countries who actually handled the pandemic well. And now, as the country who refused to shut everything down because we're freedom-lovers, we're now having to shut everything back down while the rest of the free modern world is getting back to normal.

You can blame whoever you want. You can blame Bill de Blasio or Andrew Cuomo or Greg Abbott or Donald Trump or the protests or the anti-maskers. Regardless of who you blame, there is no argument as to whether or not we have handled the pandemic poorly as a country. We have. We are an embarrassing example of what not to do for the rest of the world.

I don’t care to blame anyone. I’m even not sure we are far enough in to this to know yet whether Germany has done the right thing. They are facing an economic downturn they are describing as the worst in their history, and there is some pessimism around how things are going to bounce back. It also isn’t clear yet that as they reopen they won’t see the same spike everyone else is seeing. they recently had a meat packing plant (go figure) cause a spike that shut an area down. Another sign they aren’t so different - someone sued over the lockdown and the courts decided the lockdowns shouldn’t have been so widespread. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-53319435

 

 

lol, they really aren’t that different:

Some appear to have been spooked by recent street protests against the measures, perhaps remembering how the small grassroots protest movement Pegida grew into a full-on backlash against Mrs Merkel's refugee policy and seats in parliament for the far-right party Alternative for Germany (AfD). 

The anti-lockdown movement - which appears to be dwindling - has brought together left and right wing extremists, conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers, and could hardly be said to represent the general population.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52879321

[gmr548 16576]

I don’t care to blame anyone. I’m even not sure we are far enough in to this to know yet whether Germany has done the right thing. They are facing an economic downturn they are describing as the worst in their history, and there is some pessimism around how things are going to bounce back. It also isn’t clear yet that as they reopen they won’t see the same spike everyone else is seeing. they recently had a meat packing plant (go figure) cause a spike that shut an area down. Another sign they aren’t so different - someone sued over the lockdown and the courts decided the lockdowns shouldn’t have been so widespread. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-53319435

 

 

lol, they really aren’t that different:

Some appear to have been spooked by recent street protests against the measures, perhaps remembering how the small grassroots protest movement Pegida grew into a full-on backlash against Mrs Merkel's refugee policy and seats in parliament for the far-right party Alternative for Germany (AfD). 

The anti-lockdown movement - which appears to be dwindling - has brought together left and right wing extremists, conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers, and could hardly be said to represent the general population.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52879321

Germany is a very export-oriented economy for a first world country, I'd be willing to bet any exacerbated downturn they're feeling relative to peer countries is attributed to the impacts of lower demand for German exports as opposed to significantly different consumer behavior than other places.

 

Also, this country ain't seen nothing yet I terms of economic downturn. Reopening so early indicates failure to grasp that this was a years-long economic issue, not a months-long issue, and was effectively pushing for a sugar high that would just make things worse in the long term. This was obvious at the time but here we are. We'll see that start to manifest over the next 4-6 months.

 

[BradInATX 9208]

1 hour ago, UT_OB1 said:

I don’t care to blame anyone. I’m even not sure we are far enough in to this to know yet whether Germany has done the right thing. They are facing an economic downturn they are describing as the worst in their history, and there is some pessimism around how things are going to bounce back. It also isn’t clear yet that as they reopen they won’t see the same spike everyone else is seeing. they recently had a meat packing plant (go figure) cause a spike that shut an area down. Another sign they aren’t so different - someone sued over the lockdown and the courts decided the lockdowns shouldn’t have been so widespread. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-53319435

 

 

lol, they really aren’t that different:

Some appear to have been spooked by recent street protests against the measures, perhaps remembering how the small grassroots protest movement Pegida grew into a full-on backlash against Mrs Merkel's refugee policy and seats in parliament for the far-right party Alternative for Germany (AfD). 

The anti-lockdown movement - which appears to be dwindling - has brought together left and right wing extremists, conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers, and could hardly be said to represent the general population.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52879321

 

And yet their results are drastically different (better) from us. Them and every other first world country on the planet.

You're tap dancing but you're not really addressing the key point, being that we are probably the worst first-world country that exists in terms of how our Covid situation looks today vs. two months ago.

Edited July 11, 2020 by BradInATX

[Message Board User 12395]