Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Captainant 27706]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Trust the science (that agrees with our opinion)

How about "trust the science that is actually science"? There's quite a bit of quackery from you and yours posting your FB feeds all over DT

Just because an official looking publication wrote it, doesn't make it actual science. 

And the actual science has been pretty goddamn consistent. It's the idiots muddying the water with trash science and op-eds disguised as scientific writing PROMOTED BY SCIENCE DENIERS that you're pointing to to discredit actual epidemiologists. Just like some national leaders that I'm not allowed to mention here. 

[aggie08 21511]

38 minutes ago, Somnio said:

Interesting point.  I think refusal to change your opinion on something is exactly what is happening with many people.

Seven months ago I believed this pandemic was something to fear.  However, I have altered my initial position.

It has nothing to do with politics, which bizarrely is exactly how many seem to form their outlook on the severity of this virus.

Dispute the data I posted, please.  Instead of insults and sarcasm convince me I am incorrect.  I am willing to be persuaded if convincing data is presented.

But the facts that are relevant to me are 99 plus percent of confirmed cases are mild.  The actual number of cases is actually an order of magnitude higher putting severe cases and death rate at a miniscule percentage.

While death is always a tragedy, it is a fact of life.  There are over 50 million deaths on the face of this planet every year.

We all are aware that many of the tiny percentage who have perished due to Covid-19 were in high risk groups to have perished this year with or without Covid-19.

Maybe it is time to reassess the situation, and realize while erring on the side of caution was wise early on this pandemic we should amend our positions due to the facts I stated above.

Y'all have a good one!

 

See, this is a well thought-out post, and you didn't even have to sneak some version of "Two weeks!!" into it anywhere.

My question is: what, specifically, would you like to see being done differently?

Because it's largely high risk groups and the elderly that are dying or becoming seriously ill, I'd argue that the worldwide response--outside of a few countries--has pretty much always been metered. These deaths, as you say, are still tragic, but if the 200k+ death count included a few thousand kids, we'd be in real, strictly enforced quarantine, not analyzing the weekend of football we just watched.

So I disagree with your assertion that we're still basing our thinking around this being a virus that could kill tens of millions. There have been mistakes, irregularities, and oversights (it's politics), but we're at least trying to get businesses open and keep people sane while simultaneously (seemingly unsuccessfully) trying to prevent another spike. It's a tight rope.

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by aggie08

[aggie08 21511]

23 minutes ago, slorch said:

For most of us, going to a bar or restaurant is the same experience, with regard to sitting at a table, having a few drinks, and whatever.

If you have a nightclub experience, maybe you just party better than the rest of us.  The bar/ restaurant differentiation is wildly inconsistent.   Basicly,  the gov't is saying Covid knows if you have a plate of nachos at your table or not.   It's bullshit and arbitrary as fuck.

You call it bullshit; I call it a pretty awesome example of state governments throwing small businesses a bone. Basically saying that fully opening bars and breweries isn't a top priority at the moment, but park a food truck outside, "force" your customers to order some nachos, space out your tables, and we'll let you qualify as a restaurant.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

You call it bullshit; I call it a pretty awesome example of state governments throwing small businesses a bone. Basically saying that fully opening bars and breweries isn't a top priority at the moment, but park a food truck outside, "force" your customers to order some nachos, space out your tables, and we'll let you qualify as a restaurant.

Idiocy.  Not you.  the policies.

 

LOLz at the gov't "letting us"

 

You're caught up in food being necessary to sustain life.  Restaurant food is not.   Nor can beer/ libation be excluded as caloric intake.   It's arbitrary as fuck.

[52-80 19213]

3 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Oofda

This graph only shows half the picture, since the testing rate has changed

 

 

 

So it's the test positivity rate that's shows if things are getting better or worse.  Here's positivity rate for Norway

By the way, Norway has basically had zero controls, no people tracking, no forced isolation, and in summertime when it was expected that rates would go up due to vacation -- and people PACKED the beaches -- nothing happened.  You seriously couldn't find a person wearing a mask in the country the whole year.

 

And the effects of COVID is mild, because as the total number of REPORTED cases has gone up (parallel with testing rate), the hospitalization number is basically flat.

I.e. people discover they have it, but they dont need to be hospitalized.

 

 

 

Total death of people aged <50 in the country... 6.  SIX people died attributed to COVID.

Avg age men:  high 70s; avg age women: low 80s. 

Normal life expectancy men: 80; women: 84

 

Basically, COVID affected nothing as far as death

 

[aggie08 21511]

23 minutes ago, slorch said:

You're caught up in food being necessary to sustain life.  Restaurant food is not. 

Sure it is. Many people would be royally fucked if they had to make all of their own food. You can say that that's their own fault, but it's still a reality.

But dining in certainly isn't necessary. So, to your point, once they decided that indoor dining was allowed, there weren't many valid reasons* why bars couldn't also open under the same distancing and capacity guidelines.

*Other than not trusting the combination of Society + Alcohol.

Edited October 26, 2020 by aggie08

[fattyflattie 4638]

21 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

You call it bullshit; I call it a pretty awesome example of state governments throwing small businesses a bone. Basically saying that fully opening bars and breweries isn't a top priority at the moment, but park a food truck outside, "force" your customers to order some nachos, space out your tables, and we'll let you qualify as a restaurant.

That also happened pretty late in the process.  LOTS of bars hurting while restaurants were allowed take out.  I don’t disagree with what you are saying, but slorch is partially right about it being arbitrary.  Some bars are like clubs, some holes I go to people don’t move 10’ the entire night.  

[Captainant 27706]

16 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

But dining in certainly isn't necessary. So, to your point, once they decided that indoor dining was allowed, there weren't many valid reasons* why bars couldn't also open under the same distancing and capacity guidelines.

 

And to be frank, regulating what behavior is legally permissible in bars is consistent with existing law. Ever see a big red 51% sign at a bar limiting your right to carry a firearm? That's because we as a society recognize and accept that alcohol tends to enable bad behavior from people who otherwise know better.

Arbitrarily limiting bars that exist solely to sell alcohol (or at least >50% of their revenue is exclusively from booze) seems like a reasonable measure during an air-transmitted viral pandemic, considering risky behavior is ramped up when inebriated.

And I'm sure that some folks will get trashed at a restaurant on booze, but the difference is that there's gonna be wayyyy fewer of those folks at a restaurant than at a bar. It's not about absolute, 100% no variance, hard and fast rules. It's about trying to balance normalcy against a bunch of selfish asshats that don't give a fuck if they get everyone around them sick.

[MoJames 8244]

33 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Sure it is. Many people would be royally fucked if they had to make all of their own food. You can say that that's their own fault, but it's still a reality.

[Neonmoon 38130]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

For most of us, going to a bar or restaurant is the same experience, with regard to sitting at a table, having a few drinks, and whatever.

If you have a nightclub experience, maybe you just party better than the rest of us.  The bar/ restaurant differentiation is wildly inconsistent.   Basicly,  the gov't is saying Covid knows if you have a plate of nachos at your table or not.   It's bullshit and arbitrary as fuck.

Again, you don't know this. Just because you go to a bar, sit in the corner and have a nice beer responsibly doesn't mean other people do. Why can't you just go to the restaurant and have a beer if all you're doing is sitting around and having a beer?

The whole point of shutting down bars is because when open, there were 100 people packed in a bar, partying, etc. They are the problems, not Slorch sitting at a quiet bar having a beer. 

Shutting down bars was not bullshit or arbitrary. They absolutely spread the virus faster than restaurants. 

[Dbeasy 15076]

This graph only shows half the picture, since the testing rate has changed
 

 
 
So it's the test positivity rate that's shows if things are getting better or worse.  Here's positivity rate for Norway

By the way, Norway has basically had zero controls, no people tracking, no forced isolation, and in summertime when it was expected that rates would go up due to vacation -- and people PACKED the beaches -- nothing happened.  You seriously couldn't find a person wearing a mask in the country the whole year.
 
And the effects of COVID is mild, because as the total number of REPORTED cases has gone up (parallel with testing rate), the hospitalization number is basically flat.
I.e. people discover they have it, but they dont need to be hospitalized.

 
 
 
Total death of people aged Avg age men:  high 70s; avg age women: low 80s. 
Normal life expectancy men: 80; women: 84
 
Basically, COVID affected nothing as far as death
 

As someone who is disappointed in how poorly managed our response has been to the virus, there is some interesting data here. Do you have for other countries?

[Born to Run 6569]

That also happened pretty late in the process.  LOTS of bars hurting while restaurants were allowed take out.  I don’t disagree with what you are saying, but slorch is partially right about it being arbitrary.  Some bars are like clubs, some holes I go to people don’t move 10’ the entire night.  

Sure, but the whole point was to slow viral transmission and reduce superspreader events. Once school was cancelled bars had to go just based on common sense optics. In my younger days I would bar hop and come into close contact with hundereds of people a night who then also went to other bars and had more contacts. Think old school dirty sixth or Rainey vs your local watering hole. Its very easy for one person to spread it hundreds of others quickly.

Ive never gone resturant hopping.

[52-80 19213]

5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

As someone who is disappointed in how poorly managed our response has been to the virus, there is some interesting data here. Do you have for other countries?

yuge data here

 

https://covid19-country-overviews.ecdc.europa.eu/

 

[workswithseed 2109]

5 hours ago, slorch said:

Wearing the masks don't bother me.  I've been neck deep working in the public from Day 1 of this pandemic. Any time I am in public, the mask is on. I practice social distancing as much as can be achieved.   For an anti-social motherfucker like myself, some of the measures are most definitely wins.

I disagree with the closing of businesses and some of the other massive inconsistencies, such as restaurants being OK, but if I go to a place just for a beer...nah, dawg, Covid knows it can getcha there...   "Covid knows how many people are in the store, and whether or not it is a WalMart..."

They close down bars here in Oregon at 10 pm. Why? I don't know. Can you get drunk before hand? Yes. Does it help? I don't see how it helps at all.

[dcar00 14321]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

See, this is a well thought-out post, and you didn't even have to sneak some version of "Two weeks!!" into it anywhere.

My question is: what, specifically, would you like to see being done differently?

Because it's largely high risk groups and the elderly that are dying or becoming seriously ill, I'd argue that the worldwide response--outside of a few countries--has pretty much always been metered. These deaths, as you say, are still tragic, but if the 200k+ death count included a few thousand kids, we'd be in real, strictly enforced quarantine, not analyzing the weekend of football we just watched.

So I disagree with your assertion that we're still basing our thinking around this being a virus that could kill tens of millions. There have been mistakes, irregularities, and oversights (it's politics), but we're at least trying to get businesses open and keep people sane while simultaneously (seemingly unsuccessfully) trying to prevent another spike. It's a tight rope.

 

Thats why some govt officials were saying we got really lucky with H1N1.  It was targeting the young but ended up being pretty weak in general even though it was very transmissible.

[workswithseed 2109]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Sure it is. Many people would be royally fucked if they had to make all of their own food. You can say that that's their own fault, but it's still a reality.

But dining in certainly isn't necessary. So, to your point, once they decided that indoor dining was allowed, there weren't many valid reasons* why bars couldn't also open under the same distancing and capacity guidelines.

*Other than not trusting the combination of Society + Alcohol.

What? I guess they're too dumb and would explode thier house. What does this mean?

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

What? I guess they're too dumb and would explode thier house. What does this mean?

Banana bread labs are very volatile.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Again, you don't know this. Just because you go to a bar, sit in the corner and have a nice beer responsibly doesn't mean other people do. Why can't you just go to the restaurant and have a beer if all you're doing is sitting around and having a beer?

The whole point of shutting down bars is because when open, there were 100 people packed in a bar, partying, etc. They are the problems, not Slorch sitting at a quiet bar having a beer. 

Shutting down bars was not bullshit or arbitrary. They absolutely spread the virus faster than restaurants. 

Link to the science of your choice?

and nowhere in here have I said bars should be exempt from social distancing, any more than restaurants are.   Don't change the circumstances as needed...

[Hmbre97 6329]

I still don't understand why restaurants are open for in person dining. Like a piece of plexiglass between a table is going to stop shit floating around in the air.

The few people I know personally who have had it and from what I've seen from people on here posting that they got it were partaking in indoor activities. 

If I were in charge, restaurant dining rooms, bars, gyms, and churches would be closed to indoor shit. Have patio seating at your bar or resaturant? Good to go. Other than that, you can still do take out at minimal risk.  Same for gyms and churches. I don't understand why all the evangelicals are up in arms about the churches. Can you not pray at home? What's so important about hearing the sermon in person vs seeing a webcast of the same shit?

On the flip side, the govt needs to step in to provide $$$ relief to businesses with very steep penalties for misappropriation of funds. We can also float unemployment but design it so it's not just a flat amount like $600. It needs to be inline with your current pay which could easily be accomplished through current unemployment depts. Kick in some extra money for the states to hire help to manage the increased workload and start sending money to those waitresses and low level employees impacted by the shutdowns. The vast majority of people out of work right now are low income service jobs so it's not like it would be that big of a spend anyway when you weigh it against a runaway outbreak.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Hmbre97

[dcar00 14321]

2 minutes ago, slorch said:

Link to the science of your choice?

and nowhere in here have I said bars should be exempt from social distancing, any more than restaurants are.   Don't change the circumstances as needed...

bars are settled science for covid(and whoops pregnancies), don't ya know...

[Captainant 27706]

It really is something how in the midst of a quarter of a million Americans dead, historically high unemployment and a national task force that has said "we have no containment plan", yall are more worried about bars opening up than containing and tracking the viral pandemic.

Six months in, and all the "it'll be over by easter" folks are still acting like it was over by easter and we've just been overreacting.

@slorch did you read my post up the page on why bars are being singled out? I'll post it again for ya:

Ever see a big red 51% sign at a bar limiting your right to carry a firearm? That's because we as a society recognize and accept that alcohol tends to enable bad behavior from people who otherwise know better.

Arbitrarily limiting bars that exist solely to sell alcohol (or at least >50% of their revenue is exclusively from booze) seems like a reasonable measure during an air-transmitted viral pandemic, considering risky behavior is ramped up when inebriated.

And I'm sure that some folks will get trashed at a restaurant on booze, but the difference is that there's gonna be wayyyy fewer of those folks at a restaurant than at a bar. Not to mention that they aren't likely to visit several other restaurants that night. It's not about absolute, 100% no variance, hard and fast rules. It's about trying to balance normalcy against a bunch of selfish asshats that don't give a fuck if they get everyone around them sick.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

43 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

What? I guess they're too dumb and would explode thier house. What does this mean?

Studies show that almost 30% of American's can't cook.  They either eat pre-made stuff or they eat restaurant food.  If you think the grocery supply chain was fucked up in April, just imagine if restaurants (including fast food) were shut down completely.  The frozen food section of the grocery stores would be wiped out, and after a month of eating lean cuisine, hot pockets and frozen pizza, those people would lose their fucking minds.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

6 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

They either eat pre-made stuff or they eat restaurant food. 

Maybe they should learn and we could solve the obesity problem AND end Covid. BOOM!

[52-80 19213]

We've been eating out just like everyone else in this country and virtually nobody's dead

[MoJames 8244]

16 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

We've been eating out just like everyone else in this country and virtually nobody's dead

and what about non-virtually

[Stannis 232]

37 minutes ago, Hmbre97 said:

I still don't understand why restaurants are open for in person dining. Like a piece of plexiglass between a table is going to stop shit floating around in the air.

The few people I know personally who have had it and from what I've seen from people on here posting that they got it were partaking in indoor activities. 

If I were in charge, restaurant dining rooms, bars, gyms, and churches would be closed to indoor shit. Have patio seating at your bar or resaturant? Good to go. Other than that, you can still do take out at minimal risk.  Same for gyms and churches. I don't understand why all the evangelicals are up in arms about the churches. Can you not pray at home? What's so important about hearing the sermon in person vs seeing a webcast of the same shit?

On the flip side, the govt needs to step in to provide $$$ relief to businesses with very steep penalties for misappropriation of funds. We can also float unemployment but design it so it's not just a flat amount like $600. It needs to be inline with your current pay which could easily be accomplished through current unemployment depts. Kick in some extra money for the states to hire help to manage the increased workload and start sending money to those waitresses and low level employees impacted by the shutdowns. The vast majority of people out of work right now are low income service jobs so it's not like it would be that big of a spend anyway when you weigh it against a runaway outbreak.

You and I likely have a lot in common in our personal approaches to this virus and the acknowledgment that it is a serious public health emergency that should be treated as such.  But this is a really ignorant post.

Let me start with the most ignorant part - your passing dig at evangelicals for wanting to congregate together to worship in person.  I'm a Catholic (not a very good one), not an evangelical, but let me try to explain why some Christians "are up in arms about the churches."  As Catholics, we believe that Christ himself is present in the sacrament.  Every time I take communion as a Catholic, I believe I am taking the body and blood of God into my body.  When the bread and wine are consecrated by the Priest, physically present in the Church during Catholic Mass, the bread and wine cease to be bread and wine and become instead the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.  You can laugh at that belief if you want, but it's kind of the central tenet of our faith and our belief in salvation from our earthly sins.  When I am deprived of physically going to weekly Mass, I am deprived of participating in the most important part of my faith for the last 2,000 years.  

Because I can hear the Protestants laughing at me from the corner, let me try to explain from another perspective.  Christians do not believe that God intended for the act of attending church to be for spectators to show up to sit idly and watch a performance.  Receiving a minister's sermon or a priest's homily is important.  But just as important is the idea that one's Church is supposed to be a place for believers to come together as a community, to participate in Church functions, and to develop connections with people who believe what you believe.  A Christian life is supposed to be a communal life, not a solo act of watching an episode of Church TV on Sundays. 

I have three young children.  It's critically important to me that they learn to be a part of a Church community at a young age, like I did, so that they build a foundation to live a Christian life.  Physically worshipping in person is the only way to do that.

As to places of business like restaurants, bars, and gyms, all I will say is that Americans want to work.  They want to take care of themselves and their families.  Whether that's a dishwasher or waiter at a restaurant, a family that has owned a small business for generations, or a guy who poured his life savings into building a small business from scratch, a plan of "stay at home and collect welfare checks in the mail for the next 18 months" just isn't going to cut it for most people.  

[ruitxn 298]

1 hour ago, Hmbre97 said:

What's so important about hearing the sermon in person vs seeing a webcast of the same shit?.

In those pews others can see you putting in your check in those offering plates, as opposed to sending it  to the church secretary or just forgetting.  Maybe?

Edited October 26, 2020 by ruitxn

[Armybrat 40858]

[Hmbre97 6329]

15 minutes ago, Stannis said:

You and I likely have a lot in common in our personal approaches to this virus and the acknowledgment that it is a serious public health emergency that should be treated as such.  But this is a really ignorant post.

Let me start with the most ignorant part - your passing dig at evangelicals for wanting to congregate together to worship in person.  I'm a Catholic (not a very good one), not an evangelical, but let me try to explain why some Christians "are up in arms about the churches."  As Catholics, we believe that Christ himself is present in the sacrament.  Every time I take communion as a Catholic, I believe I am taking the body and blood of God into my body.  When the bread and wine are consecrated by the Priest, physically present in the Church during Catholic Mass, the bread and wine cease to be bread and wine and become instead the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.  You can laugh at that belief if you want, but it's kind of the central tenet of our faith and our belief in salvation from our earthly sins.  When I am deprived of physically going to weekly Mass, I am deprived of participating in the most important part of my faith for the last 2,000 years.  

Because I can hear the Protestants laughing at me from the corner, let me try to explain from another perspective.  Christians do not believe that God intended for the act of attending church to be for spectators to show up to sit idly and watch a performance.  Receiving a minister's sermon or a priest's homily is important.  But just as important is the idea that one's Church is supposed to be a place for believers to come together as a community, to participate in Church functions, and to develop connections with people who believe what you believe.  A Christian life is supposed to be a communal life, not a solo act of watching an episode of Church TV on Sundays. 

I have three young children.  It's critically important to me that they learn to be a part of a Church community at a young age, like I did, so that they build a foundation to live a Christian life.  Physically worshipping in person is the only way to do that.

As to places of business like restaurants, bars, and gyms, all I will say is that Americans want to work.  They want to take care of themselves and their families.  Whether that's a dishwasher or waiter at a restaurant, a family that has owned a small business for generations, or a guy who poured his life savings into building a small business from scratch, a plan of "stay at home and collect welfare checks in the mail for the next 18 months" just isn't going to cut it for most people.  

Not to purposefully sound insensitive but Jesus and God would probably be ok with giving everyone a hall pass for now in the name of not killing people. 

 

 

[aggie08 21511]

2 minutes ago, Hmbre97 said:

Not to purposefully sound insensitive but Jesus and God would probably be ok with giving everyone a hall pass for now in the name of not killing people. 

 

 

If not, then he's (she's) a fucking asshole.

[Pato del Muerto 52543]

1 minute ago, Hmbre97 said:

Not to purposefully sound insensitive but Jesus and God would probably be ok with giving everyone a hall pass for now in the name of not killing people. 

 

 

No!!!! It’s a test of faith!!!!

his post is actually a good explanation of why I don’t consider myself catholic anymore. At least the appetizer. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

5 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Two straws? WHY DO YOU HATE THE ENVIRONMENT?!?!?!

[Brisketexan 105188]

My half brother up in the Fargo area has it.  One of his daughter's and her boyfriend already had it and are recovered.  Right now, he says it's like a "half-flu."  They've been like most folks up there, pretty casual, not very mask compliant, going out and getting together with folks.  Couple they met for dinner a couple of weeks ago let them know that their son's girlfriend was positive, so they were all getting tested.  He did, came back positive.  Wife is negative thus far.

We'll see how it goes.

I'm really not enjoying this whole COVID thing, to be honest.

[atomheartbevo 89766]

5 hours ago, Okie State said:

My step Mom was talking yesterday about how great it was visiting Oklahoma this past week and not having to wear a mask anywhere.

Yeah, the Okies are having a bit of a problem with that now.

I'm not saying your step mom is at fault though.

[Armybrat 40858]

Mrs. Brat started going to her church earlier this month. The sanctuary capacity is 1,200, but only has about 10% attendance at the early Mass. Everyone is spaced out (families together), required to use the hand sanitizer entering & exiting the church, masks required. Plus a professional company sanitizes the entire sanctuary between each service. She feels very safe with all those safety measures.

[Armybrat 40858]

5 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Two straws? WHY DO YOU HATE THE ENVIRONMENT?!?!?!

Heh, we share one glass of water 💧 

[atomheartbevo 89766]

4 hours ago, BradInATX said:

But things like churches being open but my kid not being able to go play on a playground outdoors in 105 degree summer were beyond stupid.

Hey, churches are very careful about the safety of their parishioners.....

Oh.

https://greensboro.com/news/state-and-regional/church-buildings-ordered-closed-in-charlotte-over-grave-covid-19-concerns-3-deaths-and-121/article_51777d10-1700-11eb-8d4b-475387874e3c.html

Quote

All United House of Prayer for All People buildings in Mecklenburg County were ordered closed Saturday over "grave concerns" about the ongoing spread of COVID-19 linked to the church.

Health Director Gibbie Harris said she ordered the buildings closed beginning at 10 a.m. Saturday after 121 confirmed cases of the virus and at least three deaths were linked to the church. A fourth death is under investigation, Harris said at a morning news conference.

Quote

The "abatement of an imminent hazard" order announced Saturday will remain in effect until midnight Nov. 5. It appears to be the first time the county has used such an order from the health director to force compliance during the coronavirus pandemic.

The outbreak is associated with convocation events that were held at the church Oct. 4-11, the county said.

Quote

Harris said church officials have not cooperated with the county in taking the measures that health officials say are needed to help control the spread of the virus.

Up to 1,000 people attended the events, despite health officials "strongly urging" businesses and places of worship not to hold such large gatherings, according to the county order.

The church "failed or refused" to ensure social distancing and other COVID-19 preventive measures, it said.

Quote

Church leaders won't provide a list of attendees so health officials can conduct contact tracing and notify people that they may have been exposed, Harris said. Cases may have spread to five states, according to the order, which doesn't name the states.

"I am not taking this action lightly," Harris said of her order, only the third such action she's taken in her more than 30 years in public health.

Quote

Harris said her decision came a day before the church was scheduled to kick off a revival that would have lasted until Oct. 31. No one answered an Observer phone call to the church Saturday.

Quote

The growing case count represents the largest outbreak in the Charlotte area connected to a gathering or location.

Fourteen people who reside at a senior living facility near the church have confirmed cases linked to the events, as well as two at another such facility, Harris said.

They had to do the order because the church continued with their practices, and had scheduled a week-long revival up through Halloween.

On the one hand, you'd love to see such groups just continue to fuck themselves and their followers over hard, and let them live with the consequences, and serve as a reminder to others.  But the problem is they spread the problem around to other areas, to stores, schools, businesses, etc. and they fuck over people who had nothing to do with said church.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

My half brother up in the Fargo area has it.  One of his daughter's and her boyfriend already had it and are recovered.  Right now, he says it's like a "half-flu."  They've been like most folks up there, pretty casual, not very mask compliant, going out and getting together with folks.  Couple they met for dinner a couple of weeks ago let them know that their son's girlfriend was positive, so they were all getting tested.  He did, came back positive.  Wife is negative thus far.
We'll see how it goes.
I'm really not enjoying this whole COVID thing, to be honest.

As a Fargo resident, you can’t go into big box stores without a mask. All local grocery chains need a mask, home improvement stores? Mask. and I’m sure like most states, if one guy goes in without a mask, there isn’t much done or said unless there’s a floating manager mask cop telling that individual they need to leave. What you do in your personal space, and who you hang with-is up to that person.


Fargo itself does have a mask mandate but zero repercussions for violators. I’m also not out hunting for anti mask people either. I get my shit and get out.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Mrs. Brat started going to her church earlier this month. The sanctuary capacity is 1,200, but only has about 10% attendance at the early Mass. Everyone is spaced out (families together), required to use the hand sanitizer entering & exiting the church, masks required. Plus a professional company sanitizes the entire sanctuary between each service. She feels very safe with all those safety measures.

If mrs brat comes down with it and both of you get sick, imma be pissed. Can’t she just watch on tv or YouTube for a few more months?

[Brisketexan 105188]

6 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

As a Fargo resident, you can’t go into big box stores without a mask. All local grocery chains need a mask, home improvement stores? Mask. and I’m sure like most states, if one guy goes in without a mask, there isn’t much done or said unless there’s a floating manager mask cop telling that individual they need to leave. What you do in your personal space, and who you hang with-is up to that person.


Fargo itself does have a mask mandate but zero repercussions for violators. I’m also not out hunting for anti mask people either. I get my shit and get out.

Yeah, their exposure was surely related to frequently getting together with friends and such.  Lots of private gatherings, hitting people's lake houses, dinners, that sort of thing.  Again, my impression has been that they and their friends were reasonably cavalier.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

10 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I get my shit and get out.

Yeah, that's been my MO since March everywhere I go

[Hmbre97 6329]

21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

My half brother up in the Fargo area has it.  One of his daughter's and her boyfriend already had it and are recovered.  Right now, he says it's like a "half-flu."  They've been like most folks up there, pretty casual, not very mask compliant, going out and getting together with folks.  Couple they met for dinner a couple of weeks ago let them know that their son's girlfriend was positive, so they were all getting tested.  He did, came back positive.  Wife is negative thus far.

We'll see how it goes.

I'm really not enjoying this whole COVID thing, to be honest.

 

-Hey Jim Bob, you and Susie still up for dinner this Friday night at Chili's?

-Sure thing Dave. I've been thinking about that triple dipper all week! Oh btw, our son's girlfriend has that china virus and she's been out at the house a lot lately. We have definitely been exposed and there is a very good chance we may in fact be spreaders of this fake news media hoax but we don't know yet because our test results haven't come back yet.

-Oh shit, is that right? Well, okay. See you at 7 then?

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Hmbre97

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

You leave chili’s out of this

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Yeah, their exposure was surely related to frequently getting together with friends and such.  Lots of private gatherings, hitting people's lake houses, dinners, that sort of thing.  Again, my impression has been that they and their friends were reasonably cavalier.

I mean it’s a virus the majority of us are getting or already had without knowing. Whether we get it all at once or not is the issue

[Pato del Muerto 52543]

3 hours ago, 52-80 said:

This graph only shows half the picture, since the testing rate has changed

 

 

 

So it's the test positivity rate that's shows if things are getting better or worse.  Here's positivity rate for Norway

By the way, Norway has basically had zero controls, no people tracking, no forced isolation, and in summertime when it was expected that rates would go up due to vacation -- and people PACKED the beaches -- nothing happened.  You seriously couldn't find a person wearing a mask in the country the whole year.

 

And the effects of COVID is mild, because as the total number of REPORTED cases has gone up (parallel with testing rate), the hospitalization number is basically flat.

I.e. people discover they have it, but they dont need to be hospitalized.

 

 

 

Total death of people aged <50 in the country... 6.  SIX people died attributed to COVID.

Avg age men:  high 70s; avg age women: low 80s. 

Normal life expectancy men: 80; women: 84

 

Basically, COVID affected nothing as far as death

 

Did some googling on Norway. 
https://www.lifeinnorway.net/coronavirus-in-norway/

seems like they had stopped their visas earlier this year, and have some yellow and red countries where their citizens are strongly discouraged from traveling to unless necessary and must quarantine for 10 days upon return. 
masks are now recommended, and mandated in certain circumstances. 
 

they recently started processing visa applications again, and hey now they are facing rising numbers. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

16 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I mean it’s a virus the majority of us are getting or already had without knowing. Whether we get it all at once or not is the issue

virus gonna virus.

[DigglerontheHoof 21208]

1 hour ago, Stannis said:

You and I likely have a lot in common in our personal approaches to this virus and the acknowledgment that it is a serious public health emergency that should be treated as such.  But this is a really ignorant post.

Let me start with the most ignorant part - your passing dig at evangelicals for wanting to congregate together to worship in person.  I'm a Catholic (not a very good one), not an evangelical, but let me try to explain why some Christians "are up in arms about the churches."  As Catholics, we believe that Christ himself is present in the sacrament.  Every time I take communion as a Catholic, I believe I am taking the body and blood of God into my body.  When the bread and wine are consecrated by the Priest, physically present in the Church during Catholic Mass, the bread and wine cease to be bread and wine and become instead the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.  You can laugh at that belief if you want, but it's kind of the central tenet of our faith and our belief in salvation from our earthly sins.  When I am deprived of physically going to weekly Mass, I am deprived of participating in the most important part of my faith for the last 2,000 years.  

Because I can hear the Protestants laughing at me from the corner, let me try to explain from another perspective.  Christians do not believe that God intended for the act of attending church to be for spectators to show up to sit idly and watch a performance.  Receiving a minister's sermon or a priest's homily is important.  But just as important is the idea that one's Church is supposed to be a place for believers to come together as a community, to participate in Church functions, and to develop connections with people who believe what you believe.  A Christian life is supposed to be a communal life, not a solo act of watching an episode of Church TV on Sundays. 

I have three young children.  It's critically important to me that they learn to be a part of a Church community at a young age, like I did, so that they build a foundation to live a Christian life.  Physically worshipping in person is the only way to do that.

As to places of business like restaurants, bars, and gyms, all I will say is that Americans want to work.  They want to take care of themselves and their families.  Whether that's a dishwasher or waiter at a restaurant, a family that has owned a small business for generations, or a guy who poured his life savings into building a small business from scratch, a plan of "stay at home and collect welfare checks in the mail for the next 18 months" just isn't going to cut it for most people.  

Killing in the Name Of...

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

virus gonna virus.

[52-80 19213]

23 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Did some googling on Norway. 
https://www.lifeinnorway.net/coronavirus-in-norway/

seems like they had stopped their visas earlier this year, and have some yellow and red countries where their citizens are strongly discouraged from traveling to unless necessary and must quarantine for 10 days upon return. 
masks are now recommended, and mandated in certain circumstances. 
 

they recently started processing visa applications again, and hey now they are facing rising numbers. 

All people are discouraged from non-essential travel.  That's sort of the de facto policy across Europe.  And of course that's regulated at the airports through Visas.  But the land border (to Sweden) is unmanned and unguarded. 

 

And unlike other countries they've instituted no stay at home enforcements; no digital app personel tracking; no home check-ups; basically none of the draconian policing done elsewhere.  

 

The mask is mandated ONLY if you are next to people on public.  In actual effect, you could spend a week and literally not see a single mask worn.

 

They don't allow huge public gathering, and they've shut down a few teenager summer graduation shindigs, but large picnic were commonplace before it got cold, and places like movie theaters have been open since the Spring.

 

Basically, if you just woke up here from a time capsule, you wouldn't realize what covid is

 

 

[BrazilHorn 6624]

I personally don't think deaths are the root issue here from an reopening perspective (if we are being honest) as frankly the US has typically given zero fucks about our elderly. I promise you there is an economic policy paper somewhere showing how much $ the US is going to save on future healthcare expense related to all of the old people and fat people who have died. (~80% of all deaths are 60 years and up & severely obese <60 much more likely to die of CV19)

The crazy things is how many deaths could have been avoided: 20-25% of all deaths were in nursing homes for fuck's sake (imagine taking ~40k deaths off the total just due to that alone), It is not a travel ban to Europe that was needed but a travel ban to nursing homes. Nursing homes in hindsight should have had a "bubble" not the NBA.

 I think the root issue is that it is a total fear of the unknown:

What are long term effects on those who have had CV19 and lived (or even never showed symptoms)?

Can you get CV19 twice?

Will CV19 turn into a seasonal illness a la flu or is it akin to Chicken Pox and more of a one and done deal? (new research emerging positing the former but it is way early to say)

Will a vaccine work? or even be readily available?

etc etc etc

End of the day we can all do our part by wearing masks, staying away from the olds, lose weight if you are fat, don't go to large indoor gatherings etc etc.

Fun times ahead.