Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[BradInATX 9,208]

I’m guessing you’re not responding to me. I’m agreeing with the article just commenting on the interesting tone shift. 

I don't read Bloomberg but I don't understand the complaint. It seems to me that now that we have a new administration who has talked about their plan, Bloomberg is critiquing said plan. Isn't that normal?

[Wally Fairway 5,575]

3 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

Apologies if this has been posted previously, but what typically is the average hospital capacity pre-covid for most places?

That is the problem with a lot of this, it is data - but I don't know how to make it into information

[GRHorn 105]

Some other places starting to open up. Interesting.

https://twitter.com/brandondarby/status/1352591475587084291?s=21
 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by GRHorn

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

I wonder event caused this change? Interesting...

[BradInATX 9,208]

11 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I wonder event caused this change? Interesting...

Cloak Room --->

[Hpara759 1,780]

10 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I wonder event caused this change? Interesting...

 

[Armybrat 40,874]

On 1/20/2021 at 5:11 PM, Lobo said:

I dunno, but dibs on "Mutated Strains" for my new goth improv troupe. 

Looked that up in Webster’s and the definition had an illustration...

 

[GRHorn 105]

32 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I wonder event caused this change? Interesting...

I think the #science must have changed. 

[mdmost 43,030]

52 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Some other places starting to open up. Interesting.

https://twitter.com/brandondarby/status/1352591475587084291?s=21
 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I wonder event caused this change? Interesting...

I know it's difficult for both of you to actually read an article for information instead of a cheap gotcha but I'll go ahead and do it for you. Restaurants in DC were on a holiday pause due to worries about tourism. They were open before. So your belief that they are starting to open up is incorrect. They haven't been shut down the entire time. It has nothing to do with Biden taking over other than worries over Inauguration bringing in more people from outside. 

DC indoor dining to resume at 25% capacity

Restaurants in D.C. can resume indoor dining at 25% capacity after 5 a.m. Friday, when the city ends its ban on indoor dining, according to John J. Falcicchio, who serves as both chief of staff to Bowser and deputy mayor for planning and economic development.

Restaurant Week, which had been delayed because of the ban, will now start Monday, Jan. 25.

The ban on indoor dining went into effect on Dec. 23 amid a surge in coronavirus cases.

Museums will also be able be open, but no more than 250 people will be allowed on a floor at one time. Guided tours will also be suspended.

D.C. is still struggling with rising case loads. As of Thursday, it recorded 209 new coronavirus cases, bringing the total since the pandemic began to more than 34,600 cases and 864 deaths.

Other parts of the Dec. 23 order will remain in effect. Libraries will only offer pickup and drop-off services, according to a news release. The DC Circulator’s National Mall route will also remain suspended.

Edited January 22, 2021 by mdmost

[aggie08 21,525]

I don't get paid to read, only come up with zingers.

[GRHorn 105]

18 minutes ago, mdmost said:

 

I know it's difficult for both of you to actually read an article for information instead of a cheap gotcha but I'll go ahead and do it for you. Restaurants in DC were on a holiday pause due to worries about tourism. They were open before. So your belief that they are starting to open up is incorrect. They haven't been shut down the entire time. It has nothing to do with Biden taking over other than worries over Inauguration bringing in more people from outside. 

DC indoor dining to resume at 25% capacity

Restaurants in D.C. can resume indoor dining at 25% capacity after 5 a.m. Friday, when the city ends its ban on indoor dining, according to John J. Falcicchio, who serves as both chief of staff to Bowser and deputy mayor for planning and economic development.

Restaurant Week, which had been delayed because of the ban, will now start Monday, Jan. 25.

The ban on indoor dining went into effect on Dec. 23 amid a surge in coronavirus cases.

Museums will also be able be open, but no more than 250 people will be allowed on a floor at one time. Guided tours will also be suspended.

D.C. is still struggling with rising case loads. As of Thursday, it recorded 209 new coronavirus cases, bringing the total since the pandemic began to more than 34,600 cases and 864 deaths.

Other parts of the Dec. 23 order will remain in effect. Libraries will only offer pickup and drop-off services, according to a news release. The DC Circulator’s National Mall route will also remain suspended.

Re-opening in the face of rising case numbers. I thought that was dangerous. The fact that they’re proceeding is newsworthy. Hopefully other jurisdictions do similarly. 

[UT_OB1 2,224]

31 minutes ago, mdmost said:

 

I know it's difficult for both of you to actually read an article for information instead of a cheap gotcha but I'll go ahead and do it for you. Restaurants in DC were on a holiday pause due to worries about tourism. They were open before. So your belief that they are starting to open up is incorrect. They haven't been shut down the entire time. It has nothing to do with Biden taking over other than worries over Inauguration bringing in more people from outside. 

DC indoor dining to resume at 25% capacity

Restaurants in D.C. can resume indoor dining at 25% capacity after 5 a.m. Friday, when the city ends its ban on indoor dining, according to John J. Falcicchio

....

The ban on indoor dining went into effect on Dec. 23 amid a surge in coronavirus cases.

 

Did you read what you pasted?  The article directly contradicts your bolded statement. 
 

On 12/23 the avg 7 day new cases was 232. As of yesterday, DC was at 252 per day on a 7 day avg. It has at least come down from 300+ on 1/12

[workswithseed 2,110]

25 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I don't get paid to read, only come up with zingers.

 

[InkaUtexas 26,072]

In on 1 year anniversary of the thread being started. Just heard from a friend who went down hard last week. He felt better 72 hours later and decided to drive on down to South Carolina and take his son to university. One year after and people still being dumbasses. 

 

[mdmost 43,030]

11 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

Did you read what you pasted?  The article directly contradicts your bolded statement. 
 

On 12/23 the avg 7 day new cases was 232. As of yesterday, DC was at 252 per day on a 7 day avg. It has at least come down from 300+ on 1/12

Actually, I read that in a Washington Post article on the reopening:

Quote

“We remain squarely in Phase 2,” Bowser said at a news conference Thursday. “We were taking advantage over the holiday, where we know that there could be more travel and gathering, to recommend less of that with this pause. And we extended that through the inauguration. And those things are over.”

The ban was set to expire on the 15th but she extended it because of the Inauguration. 

 

Quote

She then extended the rule for a week so restaurants wouldn’t attract tourists to the presidential inauguration, which she discouraged visitors and residents from attending.

 

[GRHorn 105]

3 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

In on 1 year anniversary of the thread being started. Just heard from a friend who went down hard last week. He felt better 72 hours later and decided to drive on down to South Carolina and take his son to university. One year after and people still being dumbasses. 

 

Wait, he just had it? So what’s dumb about him moving about freely now?

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

9 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

In on 1 year anniversary of the thread being started. Just heard from a friend who went down hard last week. He felt better 72 hours later and decided to drive on down to South Carolina and take his son to university. One year after and people still being dumbasses. 

 

SEC SEC SEC.

[InkaUtexas 26,072]

7 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Wait, he just had it? So what’s dumb about him moving about freely now?

he was sick 2-3 days ago. Still contagious. 

[GRHorn 105]

13 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

he was sick 2-3 days ago. Still contagious. 

Ah, got it. 

[BabaYaga 15,305]

49 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Re-opening in the face of rising case numbers.

Hadn't seen, but if already posted apologies.  The day the US rejoined the WHO, they published a 180 pivot from previous practice. 

The organization decided that those tests for the virus we’ve been relentlessly assured are the gold standard for detecting infection are, in reality, just a mere “aid for diagnosis.”

PCR positive is no longer = Covid. You are not Covid now unless you get a second test to confirm it, and are presenting clinical symptoms

Clinicians now, not only can, but “must” also consider a wide array of other factors, like “timing of sampling, specimen type, assay specifics, clinical observations, patient history, confirmed status of any contacts,” and even “epidemiological information”

WHO has also suddenly decided that, if you don’t show any symptoms, you’ll need to get a second test for confirmation as well.

All of which will drive the case count down.  

 

WHO tightens up on positive case criteria

[BradInATX 9,208]

Can you fucking morons stop Cloak Rooming this thread up please?

 

Also, @BabaYaga your link does not at all say what your text above it says. Whatever message board or Facebook post you copied and pasted to Surly is wrong. That link doesn't at all say that they're requiring a second positive and symptoms. Read the shit you post, if you know how. This is like the 4th or 5th time in two days that the "no CR except every post I make is CR" crew has posted a link that they think says something, and it doesn't say that at all.

Edited January 22, 2021 by BradInATX

[dcar00 14,344]

2 hours ago, BradInATX said:

Cloak Room --->

its weird how you are never around when captainpussyface shows up.

[BradInATX 9,208]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

its weird how you are never around when captainpussyface shows up.

You guys do plenty enough complaining about him posting CR stuff when you find the time between your CR posts. 

But for the record, he posts too much CR stuff as well.

[BabaYaga 15,305]

WHO guidance Diagnostic testing for SARS-CoV-2 states that careful interpretation of weak positive results is needed (1). The cycle threshold (Ct) needed to detect virus is inversely proportional to the patient’s viral load. Where test results do not correspond with the clinical presentation, a new specimen should be taken and retested using the same or different NAT technology.

I'd life to see where we bifurcated weak vs strong positive tests earlier?  A positive was a positive.  Nothing could be more clear.  That is seemingly no longer the case as a "careful interpretation" is needed......and retested.  My guess is clinical presentation being the before mentioned symptoms.

Everyone knows this will drive down case counts significantly.  

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

Everyone knows this will drive down case counts significantly.  
 

Probably, yeah. And you could have made that point honestly without the fabrication of facts. And in the Cloak Room where it belongs (or without the politicization of your point).

[BabaYaga 15,305]

13 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

 

Probably, yeah. And you could have made that point honestly without the fabrication of facts. And in the Cloak Room where it belongs (or without the politicization of your point).

 

You miss the title of this thread?  

DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of.........

Regardless, this seems no different when the govt changed how they measured GDP.  They added to revenue what had historically always been a cost:  R&D.  And viola, GDP went up.  

[BradInATX 9,208]

25 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

You miss the title of this thread?  

DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of.........

Regardless, this seems no different when the govt changed how they measured GDP.  They added to revenue what had historically always been a cost:  R&D.  And viola, GDP went up.  

 

I don't think the thread title was intended to be taken literally.

[Captainant 27,727]

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

its weird how you are never around when captainpussyface shows up.

Probably has more to do with that I didn't actively spread disinformation and downplay the severity of the COVID-19 pandemic, only to turn around and make intellectually dishonest troll posts about "hurrr durrrrr DC must not believe in COVID becuz they opened restaurants again after the inauguration"

[Rip76 4,947]

Add Michigan as non-believers too.

 

 

 

[vtaenz 602]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Hadn't seen, but if already posted apologies.  The day the US rejoined the WHO, they published a 180 pivot from previous practice. 

The organization decided that those tests for the virus we’ve been relentlessly assured are the gold standard for detecting infection are, in reality, just a mere “aid for diagnosis.”

PCR positive is no longer = Covid. You are not Covid now unless you get a second test to confirm it, and are presenting clinical symptoms

Clinicians now, not only can, but “must” also consider a wide array of other factors, like “timing of sampling, specimen type, assay specifics, clinical observations, patient history, confirmed status of any contacts,” and even “epidemiological information”

WHO has also suddenly decided that, if you don’t show any symptoms, you’ll need to get a second test for confirmation as well.

All of which will drive the case count down.  

 

WHO tightens up on positive case criteria

That "summary" comes up word for word from all of the usual places, red state, oann, texags. 

[dcar00 14,344]

WHO is the typical political hack global organization looking for handouts.  they've been a complete clusterfuck throughout this.  I'm good with the CDC for the most part but WHO can fuck right off.

[dcar00 14,344]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Probably has more to do with that I didn't actively spread disinformation and downplay the severity of the COVID-19 pandemic, only to turn around and make intellectually dishonest troll posts about "hurrr durrrrr DC must not believe in COVID becuz they opened restaurants again after the inauguration"

Oh they believe in Covid, they just don't give much of a shit now.

[Brisketexan 105,275]

9 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

WHO is the typical political hack global organization looking for handouts.  they've been a complete clusterfuck throughout this.  I'm good with the CDC for the most part but WHO can fuck right off.

Maybe.  But viruses don't respect borders.  It is a species-wide, planet-wide issue.  So, common sense tells us we should have a species-wide, planet-wide apparatus to deal with it.

Without question, WHO has periodically stepped on its own dick.  The proper response to that is to make our involvement more serious and demanding, and to improve that worldwide apparatus that we all need.  "Fuck off, we'll handle global viruses by ourselves" isn't a good answer.  At all.  Yet it's the one we settled on.  I think it's much wiser to be pointedly critical of WHO, and to simultaneously demand, offer, and work towards improving the system.

Because the next virus that crops up in the Republic of Wherever doesn't give a single fuck that "We're America!  Bestest ever!"  It will end up here just the same, unless there is a global rapid response system to try to stop these things in their tracks.  I'm in favor of that.  We should do that.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

So, common sense tells us we should have a species-wide, planet-wide apparatus to deal with it.

Absolutely. The problem is the organizations like the WHO think "politics first, solutions second". It would be great to have an apolitical organization, but I'm not sure that could exist. 

[dcar00 14,344]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Maybe.  But viruses don't respect borders.  It is a species-wide, planet-wide issue.  So, common sense tells us we should have a species-wide, planet-wide apparatus to deal with it.

Without question, WHO has periodically stepped on its own dick.  The proper response to that is to make our involvement more serious and demanding, and to improve that worldwide apparatus that we all need.  "Fuck off, we'll handle global viruses by ourselves" isn't a good answer.  At all.  Yet it's the one we settled on.  I think it's much wiser to be pointedly critical of WHO, and to simultaneously demand, offer, and work towards improving the system.

Because the next virus that crops up in the Republic of Wherever doesn't give a single fuck that "We're America!  Bestest ever!"  It will end up here just the same, unless there is a global rapid response system to try to stop these things in their tracks.  I'm in favor of that.  We should do that.

the WHO is corrupt.  they don't care about people criticizing them.  We are back in and will start sending checks so they can have nice getaway's with their elite friends.  this is a once in a 50 year type of thing.

that said, If it starts in Russia or China again next time you can forget it.  Its basically the global health version of the UN.  They don't do shit when the chips are down they just hope the checks keep coming.

[dcar00 14,344]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Absolutely. The problem is the organizations like the WHO think "politics first, solutions second". It would be great to have an apolitical organization, but I'm not sure that could exist. 

these global orgs are the place to give "power" to the little countries and give "cover" for the shitheels like Russia, Iran, and China.  they are by definition set up to be political.  sure they might do some testing, general global heath education, and lower level stuff but when the shit hits the fan they are all in cover their ass mode.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

Add Michigan as non-believers too.
 
 
 

Minnesota opened up last week as well despite closing for 8 weeks while our border states remained open. Only to follow the same exact slope as the Wisconsin, Iowa and Dakotas who were btw rolled through the weeds and fire for their cases per capita back in November but no praise for their vaccinations which is near the top of the nation.

[dcar00 14,344]

1 minute ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Minnesota opened up last week as well despite closing for 8 weeks while our border states remained open. Only to follow the same exact slope as the Wisconsin, Iowa and Dakotas who were btw rolled through the weeds and fire for their cases per capita back in November but no praise for their vaccinations which is near the top of the nation.

the cases are 3-4X of what they were in July/Aug and we are opening up???

[Brisketexan 105,275]

3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

these global orgs are the place to give "power" to the little countries and give "cover" for the shitheels like Russia, Iran, and China.  they are by definition set up to be political.  sure they might do some testing, general global heath education, and lower level stuff but when the shit hits the fan they are all in cover their ass mode.

Cool, cool.  So what's your plan?

[Brisketexan 105,275]

8 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

the WHO is corrupt.  they don't care about people criticizing them.  We are back in and will start sending checks so they can have nice getaway's with their elite friends.  this is a once in a 50 year type of thing.

that said, If it starts in Russia or China again next time you can forget it.  Its basically the global health version of the UN.  They don't do shit when the chips are down they just hope the checks keep coming.

SARS and MERS beg to differ.  We dodged bullets before.  We didn't dodge this one.  But the threat is real, and damned well crops up more than every 50-100 years.

We need a global public health apparatus, with a rapid-response element.  So what's your solution?

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

the cases are 3-4X of what they were in July/Aug and we are opening up???

Why do they hate grandma?

[BabaYaga 15,305]

9 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Absolutely. The problem is the organizations like the WHO think "politics first, solutions second". It would be great to have an apolitical organization, but I'm not sure that could exist. 

Pun intended, but who oversees the WHO?  The answer is nobody short of nations speaking with their wallet and leaving...which of course becomes a political talking point.  When the director general clearly and overtly dodges direct and poignant questions about Taiwan because of fear of Chinese ire.  We have a problem.  They are so corrupted it's no longer a viable organization for objective feedback and information.  

[dcar00 14,344]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool, cool.  So what's your plan?

I would start by forming an org with European nations/US/Australia/other Pacific Rim to form a real alliance that is actually viably led by US(along with the usual Western Europe folks).   If we are going to fund this shit to the tune of 25% we should control it, because in general we are the good guys.    I'll give you that there is no good answer because China and Russia will cover everything.

I'm not sure if its obvious to you but the Chinese Communist Govt doesn't really give a shit if the rest of the world goes on tilt.

riddle for these folks to solve is what happens if something starts in China again?  we know they won't help so that is the starting point.

[BabaYaga 15,305]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool, cool.  So what's your plan?

The same thing we did in the GW1.  A coalition was established in record time.  We had regional, fast response teams (in this case, the 24th mech) that moved in and took root on the ground while the UN played with their dicks and worried about political fallout.  These were not multi-national.  They were country specific.  They were aligned in their intent, but fell under the purview of the one committing the most resources.  In that case - the US.  Had the UN been the sole decision makers, it would have taken infinitely more time

Each country needs to be able to react as quickly as they can/want.  Time is what is critical.  But they need to be regional - not global under control by committee.  Nothing fast ever happens that way.  As Germany, the UK, France, Belgium , etc sent resources to the gulf, so too can they send their own medical resources to coordinate, research, and contain if possible.  The problem with the UN and other global orgs is the age-old free rider concerns.  A small fraction foot the bill, yet have to coordinate with multiple nations with intentions that do not all align(ex China and Taiwan, Russia and Ukraine, etc.).  Untethering from this and allowing each access (a prerequisite) and information would help mitigate this.

[Brisketexan 105,275]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

I would start by forming an org with European nations/US/Australia/other Pacific Rim to form a real alliance that is actually viably led by US(along with the usual Western Europe folks).   If we are going to fund this shit to the tune of 25% we should control it, because in general we are the good guys.    I'll give you that there is no good answer because China and Russia will cover everything.

I'm not sure if its obvious to you but the Chinese Communist Govt doesn't really give a shit if the rest of the world goes on tilt.

riddle for these folks to solve is what happens if something starts in China again?  we know they won't help so that is the starting point.

You've captured the conundrum.  If the next pandemic was likely to arise in Belgium, we'd be all set.

But it's not.

And not all of the actors in the world are good guys -- not by a longshot.  BUT.....there's still some mutuality of interest that can be played upon.  COVID didn't exactly help China -- it was devastating (certainly financially).  They don't want a massive pandemic ravaging in their borders, whether it starts there or not.  We don't have to be friends.  We don't even need to really trust each other.  But there are some tasks that require full participation, including working with some real dickheads.

[Hate 20,136]

The WHO was in lockstep with China reporting that there was no evidence of human to human transmission until late January. That’s 3 months after the first reported cases.

[dcar00 14,344]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

You've captured the conundrum.  If the next pandemic was likely to arise in Belgium, we'd be all set.

But it's not.

And not all of the actors in the world are good guys -- not by a longshot.  BUT.....there's still some mutuality of interest that can be played upon.  COVID didn't exactly help China -- it was devastating (certainly financially).  They don't want a massive pandemic ravaging in their borders, whether it starts there or not.  We don't have to be friends.  We don't even need to really trust each other.  But there are some tasks that require full participation, including working with some real dickheads.

the Chinese are not devastated financially.  why? because they don't really care if people die, they have enough workers.  yes they don't WANT a massive pandemic which is why they welded people inside their apartments in Wuhan but once it was known that this wasn't going to kill 5-10% of their population they were good.

what happens outside of China doesn't matter to them really, unless, of course, we make it matter.  We have to be the hammer in whatever is organized because they absolutely, without question, can not be trusted. 

[BabaYaga 15,305]

20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You've captured the conundrum.  If the next pandemic was likely to arise in Belgium, we'd be all set.

But it's not.

And not all of the actors in the world are good guys -- not by a longshot.  BUT.....there's still some mutuality of interest that can be played upon.  COVID didn't exactly help China -- it was devastating (certainly financially).  They don't want a massive pandemic ravaging in their borders, whether it starts there or not.  We don't have to be friends.  We don't even need to really trust each other.  But there are some tasks that require full participation, including working with some real dickheads.

Devastating is a strong word.  Certainly their economy contracted early, but them expanded 3.2 percent from April through June compared to the same period last year.  They also very quietly saw the mass protests in HK and Taiwan mysteriously vanish.  

Certainly they are excited about the Keystone XL being shut down, as now that crude will be shipped east to them direct and sold back tp us as manufactured crap.  

Jack Ma is back after being "reminded" about his place with the state, and all seems well.

The point being large countries like China have and will continue to basically buy as much influence in large, bloated global organizations as they have with the WHO.  Do we need a bureaucracy to grant access across borders to allow resources from each country to research and render aid?  That is the point.  Or is a corrupt WHO the only way China or Russia allows people in, knowing they can control the global messaging?

Edited January 22, 2021 by BabaYaga

[dcar00 14,344]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

Devastating is a strong word.  Certainly their economy contracted early, but them expanded 3.2 percent from April through June compared to the same period last year.  They also very quietly saw the mass protests in HK and Taiwan mysteriously vanish.  

Jack Ma is back after being "reminded" about his place with the state, and all seems well.

The point being large countries like China have and will continue to basically buy as much influence in large, bloated global organizations as they have with the WHO.  Do we need a bureaucracy to grant access across borders to allow resources from each country to research and render aid?  That is the point.  Or is a corrupt WHO the only way China or Russia allows people in, knowing they can control the global messaging?

funny thing is they only gave something like 76M to WHO while we gave almost 1B.  

[BabaYaga 15,305]

Just now, dcar00 said:

funny thing is they only gave something like 76M to WHO while we gave almost 1B.  

you misspelled "laundered"