Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[GRHorn 105]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

For decades the folks in here crying every day about schools have been voting to gut our education system.

Now that they're not available to babysit their kids, they've come to Jesus and constantly bitch and moan about how critical the schools are.

Oh no, the leopards ate my face! Who could have ever predicted this!


 

I’m not crying. Our schools are open. Just feel bad for the families being left behind. 
 

46 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Nope. If schools weren't running on fumes from a funding perspective they'd have the money to put in ventilation systems and other measures to make it safer. If we hadn't gutted them to the point where there are 25-30 kids in every class the risk would be much lower.

If a certain type of politician hadn't demonized the education system to the point where they are now locked into their political corner , they'd have already vaccinated all of our teachers and there wouldn't even be any issues.

I’m in Texas burbs. I’ve stated this multiple times, but I’ll repeat. Our school district had enough money left over from the first rounds of stimulus that school lunches have been free. 
 

And regarding the vaccinations, teachers need to get over themselves. They’re exposed less day to day than Amazon drivers or grocery store workers. Do they demand to be vaccinated before returning to work? Puhleeze. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

48 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) compiled educational data from nations across the globe each year for its publication Education at a Glance. The most recent version for 2018 reports that, in 2015, the United States spent approximately $12,800 per student on elementary and secondary education. That is over 35% more than the OECD country average of $9,500. At the post-secondary level, the United States spent approximately $30,000 per student, which was 93% higher than the average of OECD countries ($16,100).

 

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/020915/what-country-spends-most-education.asp

 

 

That's a useless data point, but you already knew that. That includes private expenditures which would include:

- Private schools
- Private tutoring
- Materials and supplies outside of the school

If you want to actually try to bring stats and have a serious discussion, you're going to need to do a couple of things:

- Limit it to government spending
- Look at median vs. average, because of course Barron Trump going to a 100k/year school is going to bring the average up despite the majority of the country receiving substandard education.

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/07/us-education-spending-finland-south-korea

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

Anyone here want to address the blatant hypocrisy that the politicians you support are spewing, saying that schools are absolutely critical but teachers aren't critical enough to be vaccinated already?

Do you have any comments on this, or are you so far down the Fox News hole that your disdain for teachers and education doesn't allow you to see the problem here?

@GRHorn @Cheeseweasel @Message Board User

Edited February 11, 2021 by BradInATX

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

You seem triggered. Relax, man.

[BradInATX 9,208]

5 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

You seem triggered. Relax, man.

 

LOL.

The last 20 pages of this thread have been nothing the same four to five of you crying about schools not being open. There's definitely some triggering happening here, but it ain't me. Cool little schtick you have going though.. say stupid shit, get called on it, claim the other side is triggered. That work on Facebook?

Edited February 11, 2021 by BradInATX

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

Not me man. Please spew your vitriol at someone else. Or just go relax and have a beer at a bar alone in the dark with 6 masks on

[BradInATX 9,208]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Not me man. Please spew your vitriol at someone else. Or just go relax and have a beer at a bar alone in the dark with 6 masks on

I've definitely been in here advocating shutdowns and permanent mask wearing - you bullseyed that one!

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

22 hours ago, GRHorn said:

When you think about it, it’s not often that you get such concrete evidence of incompetence and/or corruption on a state and local level. Saying it’s impossible to open safely without X billion more dollars when so much of the country has done it months ago. Or when private schools without federal grants have opened in the same jurisdictions. Just pathetic governance. 

I gotta say...hearing you utter the words “pathetic governance” for the first time in just over 4 years is fucking rich, man.

[BradInATX 9,208]

1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I gotta say...hearing you utter the words “pathetic governance” for the first time in just over 4 years is fucking rich, man.

 

I'd love to see a chart of the amount of tears on this thread about everything everyone is doing wrong pre and post January 20. The sandy vagina levels are up dramatically since January 20.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

[GRHorn 105]

55 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Anyone here want to address the blatant hypocrisy that the politicians you support are spewing, saying that schools are absolutely critical but teachers aren't critical enough to be vaccinated already?

Do you have any comments on this, or are you so far down the Fox News hole that your disdain for teachers and education doesn't allow you to see the problem here?

@GRHorn @Cheeseweasel @Message Board User

I don’t know what specific comments you’re referencing, but there’s millions upon millions of people that should be vaccinated before teachers. 
 

 

34 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I gotta say...hearing you utter the words “pathetic governance” for the first time in just over 4 years is fucking rich, man.

I’m sorry, what part of my post did you disagree with?

32 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

I'd love to see a chart of the amount of tears on this thread about everything everyone is doing wrong pre and post January 20. The sandy vagina levels are up dramatically since January 20.

The school thing has been wrong since this summer. It will continue to be wrong going forward. I’m just disappointed now because I thought science was back, or something. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

4 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

I don’t know what specific comments you’re referencing, but there’s millions upon millions of people that should be vaccinated before teachers. 

 

This is fucking stupid and demonstrative of the hypocrisy of your philosophy.

You're livid that schools aren't open, but you won't protect the people that will be exposed to risk every day.

I like you, and you know that, but that's some really really asshole thinking. The fact that you can justify constantly pissing and moaning about opening schools but don't want to protect the teachers, and you think it's perfectly reasonable for both of those thoughts to exist in your mind at the same time, is very telling. 
 

Selfish and disappointing. Teachers are either essential or they're not. You don't get to have it both ways.

Edited February 11, 2021 by BradInATX

[GRHorn 105]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

This is fucking stupid and demonstrative of the hypocrisy of your philosophy.

You're livid that schools aren't open, but you won't protect the people that will be exposed to risk every day.

I like you, and you know that, but that's some really really asshole thinking. The fact that you can justify constantly pissing and moaning about opening schools but don't want to protect the teachers, and you think it's perfectly reasonable for both of those thoughts to exist in your mind at the same time, is very telling. 
 

Selfish and disappointing. Teachers are either essential or they're not. You don't get to have it both ways.

Their level of exposure being around children is actually lower than the average Amazon driver or waitress at Chuy’s. That’s why I don’t necessarily see vaccination as a prerequisite for returning to in person instruction. 
 

We should vaccinate more run of the mill elderly people vs young teachers imo. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Their level of exposure being around children is actually lower than the average Amazon driver or waitress at Chuy’s.

This is mind-blowingly incorrect and insane. Jesus.

Edited February 11, 2021 by BradInATX

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

Trust the Science (except when it doesn't fit our narrative)

[BradInATX 9,208]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Trust the Science (except when it doesn't fit our narrative)

There is no science that says what GRHorn is saying. Amazon drivers being more at risk than teachers around thousands of students. Fuck's sake. Imagine typing that with a straight face.

Edited February 11, 2021 by BradInATX

[sidis 9,832]

35 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Trust the Science (except when it doesn't fit our narrative)

can you demonstrate any empirical evidence of what GRHorn is saying?

[GringoSalado 1,651]

31 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

There is no science that says what GRHorn is saying. Amazon drivers being more at risk than teachers around thousands of students. Fuck's sake. Imagine typing that with a straight face.

Waitress at Chuy's? 

 

Wal-Mart checker has been working this whole time...

 

Brad is a teacher?

[BradInATX 9,208]

6 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

Waitress at Chuy's? 

Wal-Mart checker has been working this whole time...

 

Not sure what point you think you're making here. They should be 1A as well if they are expected to work. I've said that all along. If you're sitting in your nice home demanding that the people who provide you essential services go to work (healthcare, teachers, service industry, retail) and you don't also believe those people should be at the front of the line, you're an asshole. I'm not an asshole. I am, but not the "I hate the working class" kind of asshole.

Edited February 11, 2021 by BradInATX

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

Anyone here want to address the blatant hypocrisy that the politicians you support are spewing, saying that schools are absolutely critical but teachers aren't critical enough to be vaccinated already?

Do you have any comments on this, or are you so far down the Fox News hole that your disdain for teachers and education doesn't allow you to see the problem here?

@GRHorn @Cheeseweasel @Message Board User

Schools are critical.  So are grocery stores, wal-marts, bus drivers, Amazon, food processing plants, slaughterhouses, feed lots, farms/ranches, gas stations, pharmacies, warehouses, energy infrastructure, and all sorts of other shit.  Many of which face far more risk and have far more interactions with the public than teachers do. Teachers are a younger demographic overall.  Young kids are not big spreaders of the disease. I see no scientific reason why they need preferential treatment like healthcare workers do, who are actually exposing themselves and treating infected symptomatic people on a day to day basis.

The older and at risk teachers can jump right in as 1B.

Why should a teacher get preferential treatment over the HEB checker or stocker by virtue of the job?

[BradInATX 9,208]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

Schools are critical.  So are grocery stores, wal-marts, bus drivers, Amazon, food processing plants, slaughterhouses, feed lots, farms/ranches, gas stations, pharmacies, warehouses, energy infrastructure, and all sorts of other shit.  Many of which face far more risk and have far more interactions with the public than teachers do. Teachers are a younger demographic overall.  Young kids are not big spreaders of the disease. I see no scientific reason why they need preferential treatment like healthcare workers do, who are actually exposing themselves and treating infected symptomatic people on a day to day basis.

The older and at risk teachers can jump right in as 1B.

Why should a teacher get preferential treatment over the HEB checker or stocker by virtue of the job?

 

Completely agree. See post above. I think all of those people should be 1A. Olds have a choice to stay at home as they're not in the workforce (and if they are they'd be 1a). We should be prioritizing those that we are forcing into exposure situations first. So yeah, all of those people should be 1A too.

Edited February 11, 2021 by BradInATX

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

There is little evidence of in person transmission in schools.  All of our cases occurred off campus.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/01/three-studies-highlight-low-covid-risk-person-school

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

12 minutes ago, sidis said:

can you demonstrate any empirical evidence of what GRHorn is saying?

• New CDC research shows a low risk of COVID-19 infections among students in in-person schooling.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2775875

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

Completely agree. See post above. 

That makes too many people who are not at risk from death or serious illness jump ahead of people who are.  Way too many people in 1A

[BradInATX 9,208]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

• New CDC research shows a low risk of COVID-19 infections among students in in-person schooling.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2775875

 

Where in the article does it say that teachers are lower risk than Amazon drivers? 

You're just throwing shit against the wall.

[BradInATX 9,208]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

That makes too many people who are not at risk from death or serious illness jump ahead of people who are.  Way too many people in 1A

There are 14 million teachers and retail workers in the country. Add a couple million for meat packing and the other ones you threw out (which I agree are very valid). That's 20 million tops. That's less than half of the people who have already received shots. It's not at all unmanageable. The hard truth is that we as a country just don't give a shit about those people and we see them as expendable.

I mean shit there are at least 100,000 Surly lawyers who have already been vaccinated and we can't vaccinate teachers? 

Edited February 11, 2021 by BradInATX

[sidis 9,832]

4 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

• New CDC research shows a low risk of COVID-19 infections among students in in-person schooling.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2775875

did you happen to read that article?  i am proud of your for stretching yourself beyond lame one-liners targeted at lowest common denominator posters like incredulity but you should read the article you post next time before you post it in support of a proposed hypothesis.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

3 minutes ago, sidis said:

did you happen to read that article? 

Yes. And I'm not sure what your point is. But thanks for trying. Life has risks. Driving to work is a risk. Teaching in a COVID environment is risky. Both are very small risks.

Man up.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

We should know by now what the risks are.  A lot of schools have had in person school for months now.  Has there been a lot of dead teachers who got Covid at school?  Or can we compare deaths/hospitalizations of teachers teaching in person to those at home?

I would like to see the data.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

We should know by now what the risks are.  A lot of schools have had in person school for months now.  Has there been a lot of dead teachers who got Covid at school?  Or can we compare deaths/hospitalizations of teachers teaching in person to those at home?

I would like to see the data.

[BradInATX 9,208]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

We should know by now what the risks are.  A lot of schools have had in person school for months now.  Has there been a lot of dead teachers who got Covid at school?  Or can we compare deaths/hospitalizations of teachers teaching in person to those at home?

I would like to see the data.

I looked for a bit, but couldn't find anything substantive. Found a few really old articles, and one that shows teachers near the bottom of essential workers in terms of transmission level. Below healthcare and meat-packing types. But didn't find anything comparing teachers to say... Amazon truck drivers.

Edited February 11, 2021 by BradInATX

[Anastasis 23,481]

Jesus Christ this is a beating. 

1. For many children, especially elementary age, virtual education is not hitting the mark.  For others, and especially middle and high school, virtual may be sufficient.  We won't really know the full ramifications of the educational impacts associated with school closures for a while. 

2. In schools where basic measures such as mask wearing, distancing, and quarantine when close contact situations occur, the risk of in school transmission appears to be extremely low. We are just not seeing things blow up when basic precautions are implemented, especially in elementary situations.  Where we see things pop off, they tend to be extracurriculars and other activities outside of the classroom. 

3. Teachers should be prioritized for vaccination, somewhere after 65+ and healthcare workers, but before bartenders and waitresses and otherwise healthy amazon drivers.

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Jesus Christ this is a beating. 

1. For many children, especially elementary age, virtual education is not hitting the mark.  For others, and especially middle and high school, virtual may be sufficient.  We won't really know the full ramifications of the educational impacts associated with school closures for a while. 

2. In schools where basic measures such as mask wearing, distancing, and quarantine when close contact situations occur, the risk of in school transmission appears to be extremely low. We are just not seeing things blow up when basic precautions are implemented, especially in elementary situations.  Where we see things pop off, they tend to be extracurriculars and other activities outside of the classroom. 

3. Teachers should be prioritized for vaccination, somewhere after 65+ and healthcare workers, but before bartenders and waitresses and otherwise healthy amazon drivers.

 

 

So it sounds like you agree with.. both sides

[GringoSalado 1,651]

39 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

Not sure what point you think you're making here. They should be 1A as well if they are expected to work. I've said that all along. If you're sitting in your nice home demanding that the people who provide you essential services go to work (healthcare, teachers, service industry, retail) and you don't also believe those people should be at the front of the line, you're an asshole. I'm not an asshole. I am, but not the "I hate the working class" kind of asshole.

the point I'm making is you elided his mention of waitress and jumped on Amazon driver.

[Anastasis 23,481]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

So it sounds like you agree with.. both sides

I would frame it as the side of common sense, which does appear to be an unpopular side these days. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

9 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

the point I'm making is you elided his mention of waitress and jumped on Amazon driver.

Because I agree with his point about the waitress. Those people are being forced into elevated risk in order to maintain their livelihood just like teachers and should be front of the line as well.

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9,208]

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I would frame it as the side of common sense, which does appear to be an unpopular side these days. 

Vaccinating people that we are essentially forcing to work amongst the general unwashed public lacks common sense? 

 

[GRHorn 105]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

This is mind-blowingly incorrect and insane. Jesus.

This is a great description. Thanks. lol
 

How is it incorrect? The interactions teachers are having throughout their day are with people less likely to transmit the disease than adults and that are constantly wearing masks. 
 

Amazon driver was a bad pick. I was trying to think of people with lots of interactions with strangers throughout the day. They actually see people less. I stand by Chuy’s waitress. 
 

16 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Jesus Christ this is a beating. 

1. For many children, especially elementary age, virtual education is not hitting the mark.  For others, and especially middle and high school, virtual may be sufficient.  We won't really know the full ramifications of the educational impacts associated with school closures for a while. 

2. In schools where basic measures such as mask wearing, distancing, and quarantine when close contact situations occur, the risk of in school transmission appears to be extremely low. We are just not seeing things blow up when basic precautions are implemented, especially in elementary situations.  Where we see things pop off, they tend to be extracurriculars and other activities outside of the classroom. 

3. Teachers should be prioritized for vaccination, somewhere after 65+ and healthcare workers, but before bartenders and waitresses and otherwise healthy amazon drivers.

 

Like I said there are millions and millions of people (65 and older) that I would vaccinate before young teachers. 

[Anastasis 23,481]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Vaccinating people that we are essentially forcing to work amongst the general unwashed public lacks common sense? 

Who are you arguing with?  You are tilting at a strawman. Schools, at least the ones I send my children to every day, are hardly operating as the "general unwashed public".  They require mask wearing, they enforce distancing, they do contract tracing, provide notifications of different levels of contact. They are probably one of the safest non-household indoor spaces in the country when these basic precautions are followed. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

Just now, GRHorn said:

This is a great description. Thanks. lol
 

How is it incorrect? The interactions teachers are having throughout their day are with people less likely to transmit the disease than adults and that are constantly wearing masks. 
 

Amazon driver was a bad pick. I was trying to think of people with lots of interactions with strangers throughout the day. They actually see people less. I stand by Chuy’s waitress. 
 

Like I said there are millions and millions of people (65 and older) that I would vaccinate before young teachers. 

 

Cool - all good, always appreciate that you'll back off of a point that may have misfired. 

Like I said, agreed on the waitress. I looked for data to see if anyone had actually put it together for waitresses vs. teachers, but IMO they're probably pretty similar. Waitstaff has the disadvantage of people eating and drinking with masks off. Teachers have the disadvantage of exposure to far bigger numbers via recirculated air amongst thousands of kids. 

You could probably talk me into either side of the teachers vs. waitstaff risk argument. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

 

 

Quote

they are probably one of the safest non-household indoor spaces in the country when these basic precautions are followed. 

 

You're going to have to do better than just pulling things out of your ass. You know better. Link? Citation?

Edited February 11, 2021 by BradInATX

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Who are you arguing with?  You are tilting at a strawman.

This is his MO

[Anastasis 23,481]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

 

LOL. Troll on Brad.  Or try actually reading. One of the two. 

[GRHorn 105]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Who are you arguing with?  You are tilting at a strawman. Schools, at least the ones I send my children to every day, are hardly operating as the "general unwashed public".  They require mask wearing, they enforce distancing, they do contract tracing, provide notifications of different levels of contact. They are probably one of the safest non-household indoor spaces in the country when these basic precautions are followed. 

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

This is his MO

Your dumb ass didn't even read the article you posted, got called out by sidis, and ran away. Stick to shit you're good at, like one-liners on the football board. This type of conversation is out of your depth.

 

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

 

LOL. Troll on Brad.  Or try actually reading. One of the two. 

 

"they are probably one of the safest non-household indoor spaces in the country when these basic precautions are followed. "

Source?

You know that just making shit up isn't going to fly here. 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by BradInATX

[smoky 840]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

You're going to have to do better than just pulling things out of your ass. You know better. Link? Citation?

Duke  "Incidence and Secondary Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 Infections in Schools "

CONCLUSIONS: Our cohort study demonstrated that enforcing SARS-CoV-2 mitigation policies such as masking, physical distancing, and hand hygiene, resulted in minimal clusters of SARS-CoV-2 infection and low rates of secondary transmission in schools, and did not cause a larger community infection burden. Our data indicate that schools can reopen safely if they develop and adhere to specific SARS-CoV-2 prevention policies.

[BradInATX 9,208]

2 minutes ago, smoky said:

Duke  "Incidence and Secondary Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 Infections in Schools "

CONCLUSIONS: Our cohort study demonstrated that enforcing SARS-CoV-2 mitigation policies such as masking, physical distancing, and hand hygiene, resulted in minimal clusters of SARS-CoV-2 infection and low rates of secondary transmission in schools, and did not cause a larger community infection burden. Our data indicate that schools can reopen safely if they develop and adhere to specific SARS-CoV-2 prevention policies.

 

We've all seen that. Message Board User has posted it at least 20 times. Show me where that articles proves this:

 

Quote

they are probably one of the safest non-household indoor spaces in the country when these basic precautions are followed. 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by BradInATX

[GRHorn 105]

1 minute ago, smoky said:

Duke  "Incidence and Secondary Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 Infections in Schools "

CONCLUSIONS: Our cohort study demonstrated that enforcing SARS-CoV-2 mitigation policies such as masking, physical distancing, and hand hygiene, resulted in minimal clusters of SARS-CoV-2 infection and low rates of secondary transmission in schools, and did not cause a larger community infection burden. Our data indicate that schools can reopen safely if they develop and adhere to specific SARS-CoV-2 prevention policies.

Did this study happen to touch on how many more billions of dollars will be necessary for certain parts of the country to catch up with the rest?

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

Brad: NO ONE CAN PROVE THIS!

 

Everyone: Post stories with facts from the CDC

 

Brad: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! THAT DOESN'T COUNT!

[BradInATX 9,208]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Brad: NO ONE CAN PROVE THIS!

 

Everyone: Post stories with facts from the CDC

 

Brad: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! THAT DOESN'T COUNT!

 

At least when schools open back up we'll be spared from your posts during most of the daytime hours.