Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Pato del Muerto 52498]

Just now, Kyle said:

Because as I noted clearly in English this is my calculus. Adjusted for inputs my mortality risk is basically 0%.

What’s your calculation on a week long hospital stay?

[GRHorn 105]

11 hours ago, trauma babe said:

Holy fucking shit at comparing HIV/AIDS to COVID. Only a fucking quack chiropractor could come up with tha...oh. 

Again, I was giving another example of personal health information. Jesus. 
 

Maybe I shouldn’t be shocked that people support the vaccine passport idea, but I kind of am. 
 

Just remember, “before granting any power to government, first imagine that power wielded by the politician you despise most. because one day, it will be.”

 

Requiring government permission via vaccine passport to do basic things like travel or eat out at restaurants or work going forward is a terrible fucking idea. It may not start there but it will get there. It will be expanded upon by people you don’t like. As we’ve seen, people can get canceled. You haven’t had your booster, you need to go home and so on. 
 

And please don’t go on about how it’s private companies that will want this. How are airlines not doing government bidding on things like this? They’ve been bailed out repeatedly. Big corporations and government are hand in glove at this point. 

 

[Kyle 207]

9 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

What’s your calculation on a week long hospital stay?

What's your's on clutching your pearls in isolation for a year? Sorry ... your vag lips.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Kyle

[Pato del Muerto 52498]

9 minutes ago, Kyle said:

What's your's on clutching your pearls in isolation for a year? Sorry ... your vag lips.

My social interaction has been just fine over the past year thanks for asking. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

CDC updates travel guidelines for fully vaccinated. Did you have to get a test before after flying domestically?  If not, what changed?
 

Thanks Rochelle!


(They already have been)

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

Again, I was giving another example of personal health information. Jesus. 
 

Maybe I shouldn’t be shocked that people support the vaccine passport idea, but I kind of am. 
 

Just remember, “before granting any power to government, first imagine that power wielded by the politician you despise most. because one day, it will be.”

 

Requiring government permission via vaccine passport to do basic things like travel or eat out at restaurants or work going forward is a terrible fucking idea. It may not start there but it will get there. It will be expanded upon by people you don’t like. As we’ve seen, people can get canceled. You haven’t had your booster, you need to go home and so on. 
 

And please don’t go on about how it’s private companies that will want this. How are airlines not doing government bidding on things like this? They’ve been bailed out repeatedly. Big corporations and government are hand in glove at this point. 

 

Well at least we know that the talking points are. 

[Wulaw Horn 19070]

If it gets me out of wearing a mask I’m ok with them tattooing a V on my forehead. 

[workswithseed 2107]

16 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If it gets me out of wearing a mask I’m ok with them tattooing a V on my forehead. 

Haha, not on your right hand?

[topochico 1049]

8 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Again, I was giving another example of personal health information. Jesus. 
 

Maybe I shouldn’t be shocked that people support the vaccine passport idea, but I kind of am. 
 

Just remember, “before granting any power to government, first imagine that power wielded by the politician you despise most. because one day, it will be.”

 

Requiring government permission via vaccine passport to do basic things like travel or eat out at restaurants or work going forward is a terrible fucking idea. It may not start there but it will get there. It will be expanded upon by people you don’t like. As we’ve seen, people can get canceled. You haven’t had your booster, you need to go home and so on. 
 

And please don’t go on about how it’s private companies that will want this. How are airlines not doing government bidding on things like this? They’ve been bailed out repeatedly. Big corporations and government are hand in glove at this point. 

 

Again, it is not the government. It is private companies. This isn't a "papers please" situation. People volunteer to get extensive background checks to qualify for TSA pre-check and avoid the longer lines/shoe removal hassle at the airport. It's not required, but people give up personal information for a perceived benefit. Is that the airlines doing government bidding? 

Schools require up to date vaccinations to re-enroll. Kids on sports teams have to get a physical and release that information to play HS football. We voluntarily provide health information all of the time because the benefits outweigh the perceived risks/concerns. Why is this now, such a big deal? 

I'm sorry, but this just seems like such a weird hill to die on. If you don't want the vaccine, cool. If you want to get the vaccine but don't want anyone to know, cool. If I choose to do both, why do you care? 

I honestly can't imagine what my most despised politician would do with my vaccine status information that would cause me harm. 

 

[gmr548 16580]

Again, I was giving another example of personal health information. Jesus. 
 
Maybe I shouldn’t be shocked that people support the vaccine passport idea, but I kind of am. 
 
Just remember, “before granting any power to government, first imagine that power wielded by the politician you despise most. because one day, it will be.”
 
Requiring government permission via vaccine passport to do basic things like travel or eat out at restaurants or work going forward is a terrible fucking idea. It may not start there but it will get there. It will be expanded upon by people you don’t like. As we’ve seen, people can get canceled. You haven’t had your booster, you need to go home and so on. 
 
And please don’t go on about how it’s private companies that will want this. How are airlines not doing government bidding on things like this? They’ve been bailed out repeatedly. Big corporations and government are hand in glove at this point. 
 

Are you under the impression that the government doesn’t already have data on who is and isn’t getting the vaccine?

[Armybrat 40846]

19 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

HIPAA

Please pardon the inevitable DH meme...

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26461]

On 4/2/2021 at 2:29 PM, Kyle said:

It violates HIPAA for one. Once you open the door there is a slippery slope. It is ironic that HIPAA was created to protect HIV/AIDS patients from revealing their HIV/AIDS status - a death sentence - and now we want to basically force everyone to reveal their health information to the UT athletic department. Where does does it end? There are other viruses and conditions that are deadly - we going to require a flu shot passport?

We do- I’ve had to get shots for busines travel, my kids have gotten them to attend school and so have I and you probably have too, etc. Also it doesn’t violate HIPAA, as the privacy rule applies to a specific set of covered entities. At least for people- not sure about bird law.
 

On 4/2/2021 at 10:34 PM, Ridingtosunset said:

Good enough. I've had it, one rough day, one week of feeling like I had a cold. Why wouldn't I let the vaccine data play out. I probable still have antibodies, my immune system handled it. We have much more data on the virus than we do the vaccine. Everyone's decision is made under different circumstances. Vaccine shaming or whatever is fucking silly. 

I do need to lose about 20lbs, though. You got me there. 

In that case you’re contributing to the emergence of variants. Not your fault for getting sick, obviously, but people choosing to not get vaccinated are not only putting others at risk, but also making it more likely that vaccines and therapies lose their ability to help the vulnerable.

On 4/2/2021 at 11:01 PM, GRHorn said:

Would it be ok if everyone had an ID that said if they were HIV or Hepatitis C positive? 

Imagine not understanding the difference between having immunity from a contagious disease and suffering from a chronic, incurable contagious disease.

23 hours ago, gmr548 said:

I’m pretty meh on a vaccine passport program of any kind but y’all’s dumbfuck arguments against it are getting me there.

+1, see below

10 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Again, I was giving another example of personal health information. Jesus. 
 

Maybe I shouldn’t be shocked that people support the vaccine passport idea, but I kind of am. 
 

Just remember, “before granting any power to government, first imagine that power wielded by the politician you despise most. because one day, it will be.”

 

Requiring government permission via vaccine passport to do basic things like travel or eat out at restaurants or work going forward is a terrible fucking idea. It may not start there but it will get there. It will be expanded upon by people you don’t like. As we’ve seen, people can get canceled. You haven’t had your booster, you need to go home and so on. 
 

And please don’t go on about how it’s private companies that will want this. How are airlines not doing government bidding on things like this? They’ve been bailed out repeatedly. Big corporations and government are hand in glove at this point. 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Bozo_Casanova

[Sawbonz 27562]

On 4/2/2021 at 2:59 PM, Kyle said:

I would argue that covid does not warrant the level of public safety concern as does something like smallpox

What about chicken pox. Because we currently require it for chicken pox so covid is definitely in play

 

eta we quit vaccinating for smallpox around 1970. Because compliance with vaccinations eradicated smallpox. We got close with measles in the 90’s but then people started doing their own research 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Sawbonz

[Guest Lobo]

The point of the vaccine "passport" (super-cool name by the way) isn't to keep track of who has gotten the vaccine.  It's to have a tacit way to identify the stupid people who didn't get one for a legitimate medical/religious reason.  We're going to build a database of the foolish outliers, the empowered stupid.  It's a page from the Cambridge-Analytics playbook.  And with that, we will know where the next "problem" for America is coming from.  By not vaccinating yourself, you're helping us vaccinate our nation from your stupidity.  And you'll never know we did it.  Again, because you're stupid.

[GRHorn 105]

10 minutes ago, Lobo said:

The point of the vaccine "passport" (super-cool name by the way) isn't to keep track of who has gotten the vaccine.  It's to have a tacit way to identify the stupid people who didn't get one for a legitimate medical/religious reason.  We're going to build a database of the foolish outliers, the empowered stupid.  It's a page from the Cambridge-Analytics playbook.  And with that, we will know where the next "problem" for America is coming from.  By not vaccinating yourself, you're helping us vaccinate our nation from your stupidity.  And you'll never know we did it.  Again, because you're stupid.

This is exactly it. Yourself and people like you think it’s a good way to punish a minority of people that you don’t like. This whole idea sets up a precedent and if implemented an infrastructure to expand that idea to different sets of people that haven’t been thought of yet. 

Also it actually sets things back as things are already opening all over the country. We don’t need some new clearance system to allow it. 

[GRHorn 105]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

Are you under the impression that the government doesn’t already have data on who is and isn’t getting the vaccine?

Of course they do. Are they currently stopping people from doing things based on that data? No. But that’s what some people here would like. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by GRHorn

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

The point of the vaccine "passport" (super-cool name by the way) isn't to keep track of who has gotten the vaccine.  It's to have a tacit way to identify the stupid people who didn't get one for a legitimate medical/religious reason.  We're going to build a database of the foolish outliers, the empowered stupid.  It's a page from the Cambridge-Analytics playbook.  And with that, we will know where the next "problem" for America is coming from.  By not vaccinating yourself, you're helping us vaccinate our nation from your stupidity.  And you'll never know we did it.  Again, because you're stupid.

More like .02 of you

[Bozo_Casanova 26461]

While brain geniuses debate whether the slope slips merely to the Soviet gulags in the 50s or all the way to Cambodia in 1977, the data is emerging that unlike the original variant, B117 spreads readily among and sickens schoolkids. 
But sure, let’s just vaccinate the vulnerable and churn out more variants for freedom. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Bozo_Casanova

[Sawbonz 27562]

23 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

While brain geniuses debate whether the slope slips merely to the Soviet gulags in the 50s or all the way to Cambodia in 1977, the data is emerging that unlike the original variant, B117 spreads readily among and sickens schoolkids. 
But sure, let’s just vaccinate the vulnerable and churn out more variants for freedom. 

Hey if it doesn’t affect me personally why should I give a shit?

[Guest Lobo]

41 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

More like .02 of you

Oh no, it's Easter with distant relatives.  I'm way drunker than that. 

[Guest Lobo]

58 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

This is exactly it. Yourself and people like you think it’s a good way to punish a minority of people that you don’t like. This whole idea sets up a precedent and if implemented an infrastructure to expand that idea to different sets of people that haven’t been thought of yet. 

Also it actually sets things back as things are already opening all over the country. We don’t need some new clearance system to allow it. 

If it were up to people like me, these anti-vaccers would be on trains to re-education camps where they'd help fold boxes for vaccine vials to be shipped to real Americans.  

I can't wait to ostracize and marginalize people that had a chance to take the shots and refused (we're not there yet, obviously---gotta get through the priority groups before we start making "the other list").  Your guy had his chance to cleanse the nation.  Now, it's my turn (by the way, I know you don't like to hear it, but I a far more powerful Republican that you could ever possibly be).  

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

47 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Hey if it doesn’t affect me personally why should I give a shit?

“Basic risk analysis”

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

13 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Just remember, “before granting any power to government, first imagine that power wielded by the politician you despise most. because one day, it will be.”

 

Just spent 4 years cheering on a wannabe autocrat and now pretends to give a fuck about government overreach.

good stuff.

[gmr548 16580]

I tend to resist reactionary, emotional responses.

What's your's on clutching your pearls in isolation for a year? Sorry ... your vag lips.

lol

[GreenspointTexas 9602]

We wouldnt have to have a vaccine passport if people... you know... uh... actually got the vaccine

 

At this point in the pandemic, I dont even know how dumb motherfuckers are even still catching corona. You gotta be a complete jackass to catch it at this point, 14 months in

[Kyle 207]

7 hours ago, Lobo said:

If it were up to people like me, these anti-vaccers would be on trains to re-education camps where they'd help fold boxes for vaccine vials to be shipped to real Americans.  

I can't wait to ostracize and marginalize people that had a chance to take the shots and refused (we're not there yet, obviously---gotta get through the priority groups before we start making "the other list").  Your guy had his chance to cleanse the nation.  Now, it's my turn (by the way, I know you don't like to hear it, but I a far more powerful Republican that you could ever possibly be).  

Might I recommend:
 

[Guest Lobo]

We're not going to bother with an art contest.  But if I see that a young person's parents are on the "no-vaccine" list for no good reason...I can only assume they are also stupid...or at least incredibly influenced by stupid people.  And as such, we will do all we can to make sure they have no place in Texas.  If we can't vote you out...we'll watch you die out.

[atomheartbevo 89668]

1 hour ago, Kyle said:

Might I recommend:
 

Some guy named Charles Shultz was an instructor there .

[Enchubben 5510]

9 hours ago, Lobo said:

If it were up to people like me, these anti-vaccers would be on trains to re-education camps where they'd help fold boxes for vaccine vials to be shipped to real Americans.  

I’m 110% on board with the vaccine, but you realize how crazy this makes you seem, right? 

[Incredulity 11671]

2 hours ago, Enchubben said:

I’m 110% on board with the vaccine, but you realize how crazy this makes you seem, right? 

To be far it’s not just that

[JimmyJames 12271]

Look morons. You don’t have a constitutional right to go to Disneyworld. If Disneyworld wants you to have a vaccine passport, a recent negative COVID test, or a really large sombrero hat on before entry they can choose to require you to do so. Stop being stupid.

[tbone_ 14123]

Look morons ...... Stop being stupid.

Unpossible.

[Enchubben 5510]

11 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Look morons. You don’t have a constitutional right to go to Disneyworld. If Disneyworld wants you to have a vaccine passport, a recent negative COVID test, or a really large sombrero hat on before entry they can choose to require you to do so. Stop being stupid.

If I promise to carry my vaccine card on a lanyard around my neck, do you and Lobo promise not to send me to your work camps?

[Parliament 14260]

Seems the Russian vaccine may not be all that.

An antigen test followed by a PCR test confirmed his Covid-19 diagnosis this weekend, according to Fernández's medical team. The 62-year-old leader's health remains "stable, asymptomatic, with parameters within normal ranges," they said.
Argentina became the first Latin American country to distribute the Sputnik V vaccine in late December, with the purchase of up to 25 million doses. Fernández received his first dose of that vaccine on January 21, and his second in February, a press officer at the Presidential Casa Rosada said.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/04/americas/argentina-alberto-fernndez-covid-19-sputnik-vaccine-intl-latam/index.html?utm_term=link&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2021-04-05T01%3A08%3A06&utm_source=twCNNi

 

[smoky 840]

#priceisrightsadhorn

[JimmyJames 12271]

46 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

If I promise to carry my vaccine card on a lanyard around my neck, do you and Lobo promise not to send me to your work camps?

No.

[Bookman 4639]

So a family member got her first vaccination shot on Friday afternoon, and by Friday night wanted to have a family get-together on Saturday since she's "vaccinated."

In case you couldn't tell, she's a big-time Trump supporter.

[Willfully Horn 8017]

22 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

While brain geniuses debate whether the slope slips merely to the Soviet gulags in the 50s or all the way to Cambodia in 1977, the data is emerging that unlike the original variant, B117 spreads readily among and sickens schoolkids. 
But sure, let’s just vaccinate the vulnerable and churn out more variants for freedom. 

Wait, anti-maskers, and open things up-ers, have fucked around and now our kids are finding out? 

Don’t folks get tired of being proven wrong, again and again and again? 
 

These people are a public threat.

 

[Heme Doc 417]

22 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

While brain geniuses debate whether the slope slips merely to the Soviet gulags in the 50s or all the way to Cambodia in 1977, the data is emerging that unlike the original variant, B117 spreads readily among and sickens schoolkids. 
But sure, let’s just vaccinate the vulnerable and churn out more variants for freedom. 

I’m genuinely interested in seeing data that suggests B117 variant causes more severe disease in kids (compared to ancestral strain) and spreads more easily in kids (compared to adults).  We know that B117 transmits more easily than the ancestral strain and probably causes more severe disease, but I haven’t seen anything specific to B117 in kids
 

I think we should vaccinate everyone, even those not at risk of severe disease so we can really halt spread of this thing.  Current US vaccines work very well against B117, which is good since it’s quickly becoming the dominant strain.  

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

12 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

We know that B117 transmits more easily than the ancestral strain and probably causes more severe disease, but I haven’t seen anything specific to B117 in kids

I wonder if it's due to the fact that they are the "last man standing" with the vast majority of vaccines going to older people and most of the cases of Covid have not been kids.

[Bozo_Casanova 26461]

32 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

I’m genuinely interested in seeing data that suggests B117 variant causes more severe disease in kids (compared to ancestral strain) and spreads more easily in kids (compared to adults).  We know that B117 transmits more easily than the ancestral strain and probably causes more severe disease, but I haven’t seen anything specific to B117 in kids
 

I think we should vaccinate everyone, even those not at risk of severe disease so we can really halt spread of this thing.  Current US vaccines work very well against B117, which is good since it’s quickly becoming the dominant strain.  

It's still anecdotal at this point, but the spread among school age kids in areas where B117 is becoming dominant and schools are well attended like Minnesota and Michigan is strongly indicative, according to Osterholm, Hotez and others. You're obviously in a better position to evaluate that claim than I am, but Osterholm has had a very good track record on this so far. 

[Heme Doc 417]

Time for a rant about shitty vaccine messaging...last week edition.

Last week the CDC director made “controversial” comments that vaccinated people don’t carry/transmit the virus.  Then the CDC walked it back the next day and you got headlines from major media outlets like the NYT saying “Can vaccinated people carry the virus?  We don’t know, scientists say”

Imagine if the NYT did the same article with the headline “Can masked people spread the virus?  We don’t know, scientists say”

It would be anti-mask fodder!  Why is this same type of bad messaging allowed for vaccines?  Especially when vaccines are undoubtedly a metric fuck ton better than masks when it comes to ending this pandemic and protecting individuals and the population in general.

When it comes to masks (which I wear without issue), the evidence is completely oversold for the sake of increased compliance (which I’m ok with), but the vaccine data is undersold without any thought to how this might affect uptake!  


It must be communicated clearly.  Vaccines kick ass and  >>>>>>>>>masks (and other NPIs).  And vaccines do (though not quite 100%) stop transmission.  And once everyone has a chance to get vaccinated, mandatory masking can fuck right off (people can still mask if they choose)

[Heme Doc 417]

21 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

It's still anecdotal at this point, but the spread among school age kids in areas where B117 is becoming dominant and schools are well attended like Minnesota and Michigan is strongly indicative, according to Osterholm, Hotez and others. You're obviously in a better position to evaluate that claim than I am, but Osterholm has had a very good track record on this so far. 

Thanks for the reply.  I think it’s highly likely B117 spreads more readily among kids (the same as adults) and I suspect we will get more data on this soon.  Hopefully the FDA will expand the Pfizer authorization to younger kids (ages 11-15) soon.  

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

3 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

It must be communicated clearly.

I've said it throughout this thread. Scientists are the WORST people to be messengers. By default, they won't commit to 100% of ANYTHING because they understand nothing is certain (which is true). The CDC should have 1 person / group dedicated to messaging. And that person should be more politician than scientist. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26461]

8 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

Thanks for the reply.  I think it’s highly likely B117 spreads more readily among kids (the same as adults) and I suspect we will get more data on this soon.  Hopefully the FDA will expand the Pfizer authorization to younger kids (ages 11-15) soon.  

God I hope so - I've heard everything from late summer to next spring. I've got a 15 year old who needs to be back in school. 

[Brisketexan 105139]

13 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I've said it throughout this thread. Scientists are the WORST people to be messengers. By default, they won't commit to 100% of ANYTHING because they understand nothing is certain (which is true). The CDC should have 1 person / group dedicated to messaging. And that person should be more politician than scientist. 

Plenty of this.  Information can be 100% accurate (which is what most scientists are shooting for -- being completely truthful) while also being 100% useless.

Human decision-making is -- 99.999999999% of the time -- going to HAVE to be based on incomplete or "not completely conclusive" information.  So, if a scientist tells me, truthfully, that "we don't know that the vaccine prevents transmission," or "we don't know that the wheels of your rental car aren't going to fall off on the freeway," he's being absolutely truthful and correct.  We don't know EITHER of those things with 100% certainty.  But that's not the question.  The question is, do we know them with enough CONFIDENCE that we can make an informed decision?

We do.  We already know that the vaccines reduce transmission very significantly.  Maybe not 100%, but a lot closer to 100% than 0%.  Likewise, we don't know with 100% certainty that the wheels on the Ford Focus Avis just gave me are going to stay on.  Maybe someone loosened the lug nuts, maybe the control arm has a small crack in it -- these things DO happen.  But I've got a lifetime of renting cars, and having other people I know renting cars, and car rental outfits knowing they might have liability for such a failure, to trust that I don't need to spend 20 minutes inspecting every mechanical aspect of a rental car before I trust it enough to get in and drive.

Do we have enough information to make a well-informed decision?  Yes, we do.  About several aspects.  About masks helping reduce transmission.  About vaccines materially reducing transmission.  About COVID being more dangerous than other respiratory illnesses we have dealt with over time.  About the vaccines reducing cases and serious cases in particular.  About serious vaccine-related side effects being very rare.  All of those things.  No vaccine is 100% effective.  And no vaccine will have zero negative side effects in the entire population.  Science offers very few "absolute certainties" because that's the nature of the discipline -- it rules things out, but because of that function, it rarely can rule EVERYTHING out.

[XYZ 2154]

2 hours ago, Heme Doc said:

And once everyone has a chance to get vaccinated, mandatory masking can fuck right off (people can still mask if they choose)

This.

[Willfully Horn 8017]

Data on the variant B11N, and its effect on kids.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(21)00030-4/fulltext

Edited April 6, 2021 by Willfully Horn
Clarity, after re-reading the report

[GRHorn 105]

1 hour ago, Willfully Horn said:

Data on the variant B11N, and its effect on kids.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(21)00030-4/fulltext

Thanks for sharing.

“Disease severity necessitating oxygen therapy or ventilatory support was infrequent in both waves and was lower as a proportion of total admission in the second wave than in the first.”

Also,

“Importantly, we have found no evidence of more severe disease having occurred in children and young people during the second wave, suggesting that infection with the B.1.1.7 variant does not result in an appreciably different clinical course to the original strain. These findings are in keeping with early national data. Severe acute respiratory COVID-19 remains an uncommon occurrence in children and young people.”

[Don Johnson 4753]