Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Dahobbs 17534]

18 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Do people actually think that this vaccine is safe for... say, a 20 year old but unsafe for a 12 or 13 year old?

I think it is reasonable to be cautious given the lack of any real danger from Covid-19 to that cohort. And it may not be unsafe in the sense that the vaccine isn't associated with any substantial risk, but unsafe in the sense that its very minor risks may actually outweigh its benefits for that age group. I hope and think we will get more data that confirms its beneficial for all age groups. But until then caution isn't unreasonable. 

I'll add for everyone else that while I believe there should eventually be some government effort to require people get vaccinated (the scope and conditions of that effort undetermined), I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the idea that any such government requirements should wait until there is more long term data on the vaccine. Until that time, softer efforts to encourage voluntary vaccination may be more appropriate. 

[Hefeweizen 5311]

25 minutes ago, Hate said:

Other vaccines that have been around for many many years. Vaccines that went through at least 5 years of trials and data on how kids react to the vaccine before they were allowed to be given to the general public. This particular vaccine has 6 months worth of data.

This makes sense.  I would be cautious with younger kids too.  But letting young kids decide whether they want the vaccine is nuts.  That is why you parent.

[Hate 20108]

This makes sense.  I would be cautious with younger kids too.  But letting young kids decide whether they want the vaccine is nuts.  That is why you parent.

Yeah, he just voiced his thoughts. We aren’t basing what we decide to do on that, but I think listening to your kid and getting their input is part of parenting too especially in regards to their body. My son has ADHD/ADD. He is on meds for it. Is there any data available for that particular subset of children on the side effects from the vaccine? Does it interact poorly with his particular meds? Probably not and I trust that these vaccines are the absolutely most technologically advanced vaccines ever created. But my son is extremely low risk from having any impacts even if he does catch Covid. Every adult that he regularly interacts with has been vaccinated. We aren’t quite sure what we will do yet. With summer coming up his risk of catching Covid drops even more. I don’t think we will be in a hurry for him like we were for ourselves.

[The Dog 44020]

41 minutes ago, Hate said:

Other vaccines that have been around for many many years. Vaccines that went through at least 5 years of trials and data on how kids react to the vaccine before they were allowed to be given to the general public. This particular vaccine has 6 months worth of data.

Got a buddy of mine whose doctor said they should hold off on vaccinating their kids for this very reason (this was his doc not the kids pediatrician, who might have a different opinion). The idea was that kids are already very low risk for getting severe COVID (but it does happen and of course makes the news) and we don't know how this will really affect the kids.

We're going to go by whatever the pediatrician recommends for our kiddos. We'd like to get them vaccinated to reduce the risk as close to zero as possible, but I understand why some are hesitant with the kids. It's different for them.

Edited May 6, 2021 by The Dog

[gyroprotagonist 2592]

long term effects are not known for either catching the 'vid and recovering or with the vax.  we are going vax our 13yo when available.  as everyone else likes to point out, driving or juggling chainsaws while walking a tightrope over the grand canyon have a higher chance of death for teens.  I just look at as I have a chance to eliminate that super tiny chance of death so why not.

 

[HookEm 2467]

For me it comes down to, do I think there are higher chances of long-term negative effects due to COVID or long-term negative effects due to the vaccine.  I'm going to go with the vaccine being the lower risk approach.

[gyroprotagonist 2592]

Tucker doing God's work, taking info from the VAERS site, which seems like an un-moderated message board where anyone can post adverse vax episodes,  and pondering just how many Americans the vaccine has killed.  At LEAST 30 day are just keeling over dead from the vaccine.

you can see his investigative journalism on display at the link:  https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-makes-bs-claim-30-people-every-day-are-dying-from-vaccines-heres-the-truth

Quote

“Between late December of 2020 and last month, a total of 3,362 people apparently died after getting the COVID vaccine in the United States,” Carlson exclaimed. “That is an average of roughly 30 people every day. So, what does that add up to? By the way, that reporting period ended on April 23, and we don’t have numbers past that.”

“Not quite up to date, but we can assume another 360 people at that rate have died in the 12 days since,” he continued. “You put it all together, that is a total of 3,722 deaths, almost 4,000 people who died after getting the COVID vaccine. The actual number is almost certainly higher than that, perhaps vastly higher than that.”

Claiming that “fewer than 1 percent of vaccine adverse events are reported by the VAERS system,” Carlson then pondered that the actual number of deaths from the vaccines must be severely underreported.

This is why we can't have nice things.  Fuck this guy.  He is an evil piece of shit.  Using that VAERS site as if the information is peer-reviewed verified that a vaccine dose has killed someone is just... 

[Brisketexan 105095]

17 minutes ago, gyroprotagonist said:

Tucker doing God's work, taking info from the VAERS site, which seems like an un-moderated message board where anyone can post adverse vax episodes,  and pondering just how many Americans the vaccine has killed.  At LEAST 30 day are just keeling over dead from the vaccine.

you can see his investigative journalism on display at the link:  https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-makes-bs-claim-30-people-every-day-are-dying-from-vaccines-heres-the-truth

This is why we can't have nice things.  Fuck this guy.  He is an evil piece of shit.  Using that VAERS site as if the information is peer-reviewed verified that a vaccine dose has killed someone is just... 

Yep.

And nevermind that the highest priority group to get the vaccine, the folks who got the first several million doses?  The very elderly, many of whom had a life expectancy of weeks/months even WITHOUT factoring in the COVID risk.

Thousands of people die after getting every vaccine because.....thousands of people die every day.  Correlation does not equal causation.

But in this, the stupidest of all timelines, it does, and vaccines are murder machines.

[gyroprotagonist 2592]

56 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Thousands of people die after getting every vaccine because.....thousands of people die every day.  Correlation does not equal causation.

That's not even the main takeaway, imo.  It's that this talking colostomy bag is presenting VAERS submissions as if this is vetted legitimate information concerning death related to the vaccine for the sole purpose establishing a fake death rate for the vaccine, then going on to say this established death rate is vastly undercounted and that the vaccine is far more dangerous than we think.   

Fuck, his boss Murdoch got the vax in secret as soon as he possibly could.  The taint (giggle) that Carson is putting on the vaccine is criminal.  

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Are we just gonna go ahead and say stage 4 vaccinated cancer guy died of the vaccine the same way as stage 4 cancer guy died from covid 12 months ago?

[GopherRock 1765]

Benchmarks are out in Minnesota on winding down COVID restrictions.

 

At the same time, we have this:

 

 

[Sawbonz 27546]

5 hours ago, DaysOff said:

Kids are morons with undeveloped frontal lobes. You've given them 15 other vaccines, but let's ask their feelings on this one. Be the parent and help us end this goddamn thing forever.

This thing ain’t going to end. It’s going to be endemic

 

Also this is the first human vaccine to use mRNA. While it should be fine, it could have significant issues down the road. I have no problem with people choosing not to vaccinate under 17

[Sawbonz 27546]

9 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Are we just gonna go ahead and say stage 4 vaccinated cancer guy died of the vaccine the same way as stage 4 cancer guy died from covid 12 months ago?

You aren’t really this stupid

[Dahobbs 17534]

9 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Are we just gonna go ahead and say stage 4 vaccinated cancer guy died of the vaccine the same way as stage 4 cancer guy died from covid 12 months ago?

Stop with that bullshit. We discussed this last year and you're just fucking making shit up. 

[Foosters 17850]

12 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Are we just gonna go ahead and say stage 4 vaccinated cancer guy died of the vaccine the same way as stage 4 cancer guy died from covid 12 months ago?

Holy shit

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Stop with that bullshit. We discussed this last year and you're just fucking making shit up. 

I’m asking if that’s Tuckers angle here, jfc. Every post of yours is smeared with anger. What’s your blood pressure like

[Dahobbs 17534]

13 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I’m asking if that’s Tuckers angle here, jfc. Every post of yours is smeared with anger. What’s your blood pressure like

No, you're implying that we just attributed "stage 4 cancer guy" deaths to covid. You're continuing the same nonsense that covid deaths are inflated because we attributed every death with a potential covid diagnosis to covid. That simply isn't the case. My blood pressure is fine last I checked, ~116/70. I occasionally emphasize my posts because certain people are thickskulled and cannot grasp basic concepts unless you smash them over the head, not because I'm angry.   

Edited May 6, 2021 by Dahobbs

[Guest Lobo]

Speaking of cancer, everybody remember about 10+ years ago---then Governor Rick Perry wanted to mandate that all Texas females over the age of (I think it was 14) receive the HPV vaccination in order to continue on in public school?  A lot of y'all didn't seem to have an issue with that because he was "your guy."   

[goatsaag 279]

52 minutes ago, gyroprotagonist said:

That's not even the main takeaway, imo.  It's that this talking colostomy bag is presenting VAERS submissions as if this is vetted legitimate information concerning death related to the vaccine for the sole purpose establishing a fake death rate for the vaccine, then going on to say this established death rate is vastly undercounted and that the vaccine is far more dangerous than we think. 

The validity of the VAERS data doesn't even matter for Tucker's statement. He's just straight up lying about what that data is even supposed to represent. There's no reason to turn it into an argument about the VAERS data or assume that people are making false reports.

[DDD Dad 14332]

You aren’t really this stupid

Maybe, maybe not.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

No, you're implying that we just attributed "stage 4 cancer guy" deaths to covid. You're continuing the same nonsense that covid deaths are inflated because we attributed every death with a potential covid diagnosis to covid. That simply isn't the case. My blood pressure is fine last I checked, ~116/70. I occasionally emphasize my posts because certain people are thickskulled and cannot grasp basic concepts unless you smash them over the head, not because I'm angry.   

Should I have worded that differently? Yes I believe a decent chunk of covid deaths would be dead today without covid. And unfortunately there’s a decent chunk that would still be alive. I’m asking if tuckers angle is a guy that’s on his way out that was vaccinated in February is being a vaccinated death. Jesus the disruption of that post was insane with some of you.

[DDD Dad 14332]

I’m asking if that’s Tuckers angle here, jfc. Every post of yours is smeared with anger. What’s your blood pressure like

Guys, he’s just asking questions.

[DDD Dad 14332]

Should I have worded that differently? Yes I believe a decent chunk of covid deaths would be dead today without covid. And unfortunately there’s a decent chunk that would still be alive. I’m asking if tuckers angle is a guy that’s on his way out that was vaccinated in February is being a vaccinated death. Jesus the disruption of that post was insane with some of you.

Except that’s not what you did in your post. You based your “question” on a long-since debunked bullshit premise.

But to answer your question, Tucker’s angle is to sow distrust and fear of the vaccine.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Guys, he’s just asking questions.

I really poked the hornets nest. Just waiting for bed wetter to arrive and that’s a full house

[DDD Dad 14332]

I really poked the hornets nest. Just waiting for bed wetter to arrive and that’s a full house

We realize you consider this thread to be a safe space but occasionally we will call out bullshit when it goes over the top. Like now.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Except that’s not what you did in your post. You based your “question” on a long-since debunked bullshit premise.

But to answer your question, Tucker’s angle is to sow distrust and fear of the vaccine.

Thanks for answering my question.

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[mdmost 43001]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Are we just gonna go ahead and say stage 4 vaccinated cancer guy died of the vaccine the same way as stage 4 cancer guy died from covid 12 months ago?

Do the hospitals make money off that? 

[AggieFactFinder 31]

46 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Speaking of cancer, everybody remember about 10+ years ago---then Governor Rick Perry wanted to mandate that all Texas females over the age of (I think it was 14) receive the HPV vaccination in order to continue on in public school?  A lot of y'all didn't seem to have an issue with that because he was "your guy."   

I wonder if you could possibly have come up with a worse analogy?  The Republican House voted 135-2 and the Republican Senate 30-1 to stop the executive order.  I can't remember an issue in my lifetime that was more opposed by a Texas governor's own supporters.   

Edited May 6, 2021 by AggieFactFinder

[Dahobbs 17534]

15 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Should I have worded that differently? Yes I believe a decent chunk of covid deaths would be dead today without covid. And unfortunately there’s a decent chunk that would still be alive. I’m asking if tuckers angle is a guy that’s on his way out that was vaccinated in February is being a vaccinated death. Jesus the disruption of that post was insane with some of you.

Yes, next time don't premise your question on a fallacious statement. But, I also think you know exactly what you were doing, which was implying that deaths were intentionally inflated and comparing that to Tucker's action as a false equivalence. So, spare me the indignation on how poorly you've been treated. It wasn't a sincere question and it didn't deserve a sincere response. 

11 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Thanks for answering my question.

Did you seriously need him to tell you that? 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Dahobbs

[Sawbonz 27546]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

You aren’t really this stupid

 

27 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

 Yes I believe a decent chunk of covid deaths would be dead today without covid.

You really aren’t helping me here

 

If you knew you were going to die by November, would you be okay with dying next Tuesday?

[DaysOff 7947]

Kill grandma for the good of the economy. It was what she wanted.

[VelvetFreeze 114]

4 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

Kill grandma for the good of the economy. It was what she wanted.

Only if you put her in a home and didn't take the responsibility of caring for her.

Why would she want to live?

[Sawbonz 27546]

18 minutes ago, VelvetFreeze said:

Only if you put her in a home and didn't take the responsibility of caring for her.

Why would she want to live?

My son's best friend’s grandfather was  in perfect health. Was as careful as he could be. Dead less than a week after contracting covid. 

[Brisketexan 105095]

8 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

My son's best friend’s grandfather was  in perfect health. Was as careful as he could be. Dead less than a week after contracting covid. 

Sounds like he was just a profit center for a hospital, amirite?

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

You really aren’t helping me here
 
If you knew you were going to die by November, would you be okay with dying next Tuesday?

If I’m LTC? Yea.

[Sawbonz 27546]

5 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

If I’m LTC? Yea.

How old are your kids? You’re ok with less than one more week vs 6 months?

[gyroprotagonist 2592]

just so we are clear, no one is going to defend Tucker on this, right? Or is anyone here truly saying to themselves, "you know, he has point.  I bet tomorrow another 30 people will keel over dead post injection from the vax"?

The point was quickly blimped by the ol' "hospitals cashed in on declaring every GSW victim actually died of Covid" conspiracy theory and the ensuing back and forth from that. 

As the thread title declares there are 'lots of politics' in here.  i would fall under the libtard category, but like perusing all threads to see what's shaking.  There is not much of a counterview in the ol' cloakroom these days.  Some things we seem to agree on; some we don't, but I figured there would be a stronger reaction from both sides from this despicable attempt to sabotage people getting vaxxed.  

[goatsaag 279]

17 minutes ago, gyroprotagonist said:

just so we are clear, no one is going to defend Tucker on this, right? Or is anyone here truly saying to themselves, "you know, he has point.  I bet tomorrow another 30 people will keel over dead post injection from the vax"?

No, unfortunately, people are saying to themselves "THE COVID VACCINE IS GOING TO KILL ANOTHER 30 PEOPLE TOMORROW!" because people are morons who don't realize (or don't care) that Tucker is lying to them.

[Guest Lobo]

Now why would Tucker, a Julliard-trained Immunologist, lie to us about something he has been studying for the last 40 years?  

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

How old are your kids? You’re ok with less than one more week vs 6 months?

If I’m in grave condition locked down with no visitors in LTC…yeah

[Sawbonz 27546]

4 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

If I’m in grave condition locked down with no visitors in LTC…yeah

Why would you be in that situation?

 

Oh I get it you think someone in LTC with kids/grandkids who was under quarantine would be glad to get covid and die rather than have 6 more months of phone calls and FaceTime with their loved ones knowing the quarantine might end before they die. 
 

sure

Edited May 6, 2021 by Sawbonz

[Johnny Sack 8397]

10 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Why would you be in that situation?

 

Oh I get it you think someone in LTC with kids/grandkids who was under quarantine would be glad to get covid and die rather than have 6 more months of phone calls and FaceTime with their loved ones knowing the quarantine might end before they die. 
 

sure

If you're 80 plus and get Covid you have about a 9 percent chance of dying.  I know plenty of people in that age group who would prefer taking the risk of getting Covid and then dying from it if given the choice between that or a year of being locked down alone and not being able to physically see or hug their kids or grandkids.  

My grandmother is 87.  She is healthy for her age but honestly if it was not for her wealth she would not be able to live alone right now due to some memory issues (she has 24 hour nursing care and staff that helps her out).  Even then, at the beginning of the pandemic she was cooped up in her high rise seeing no one but her nurses and staff.  That lasted about a week before she wanted family to start visiting.  So I would go over twice a week and so would others in my family.  Her point was she has lived a long and great life.  She does not have that much time left and chose she would not spend one of her final good years alone.  She also is a faithful believer who believes she has a lot more loved ones on the other side than she does here now, including my granddad, her sister, a daughter, and a grandson.

It is not necessarily an indefensible choice. To her, the loss of one of her few remaining good years to avoid a disease that, even if she caught it, she had a 91% chance of surviving (likely higher given she is not obese and can afford the best treatment).    

[Dahobbs 17534]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

If you're 80 plus and get Covid you have about a 9 percent chance of dying.  I know plenty of people in that age group who would prefer taking the risk of getting Covid and then dying from it if given the choice between that or a year of being locked down alone and not being able to physically see or hug their kids or grandkids.  

My grandmother is 87.  She is healthy for her age but honestly if it was not for her wealth she would not be able to live alone right now due to some memory issues (she has 24 hour nursing care and staff that helps her out).  Even then, at the beginning of the pandemic she was cooped up in her high rise seeing no one but her nurses and staff.  That lasted about a week before she wanted family to start visiting.  So I would go over twice a week and so would others in my family.  Her point was she has lived a long and great life.  She does not have that much time left and chose she would not spend one of her final good years alone.  She also is a faithful believer who believes she has a lot more loved ones on the other side than she does here now, including my granddad, her sister, a daughter, and a grandson.

It is not necessarily an indefensible choice. To her, the loss of one of her few remaining good years to avoid a disease that, even if she caught it, she had a 91% chance of surviving (likely higher given she is not obese and can afford the best treatment).    

And none of that has anything at all to do with what they were talking about. But thanks for playing. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

And none of that has anything at all to do with what they were talking about. But thanks for playing. 

I guess if you so say, it does not.  But you're a fucking idiot.  So it probably does.

[Hate 20108]

My 100 year old Grandpa caught Covid and died from it.  After my Grandma passed away three years ago, my Grandpa had to go into LTC.  My mom, aunts and uncles would visit him often as they all lived close by.  He begged my uncle every time he came by to shoot and kill him.  He didn't want to be here anymore after Grandma passed away.  Two weeks after his 100th birthday, he caught Covid and died.  I'm sure he was pretty relieved when he finally passed as he hadn't wanted to wake up for the last 3 years anyway. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I guess if you so say, it does not.  But you're a fucking idiot.  So it probably does.

Age related cognitive decline is tragic. When one reverts to the cognitive abilities of a child, protection is needed. Especially when confronting major decisions. 

My best to your grandmom.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Why would you be in that situation?
 
Oh I get it you think someone in LTC with kids/grandkids who was under quarantine would be glad to get covid and die rather than have 6 more months of phone calls and FaceTime with their loved ones knowing the quarantine might end before they die. 
 
sure

Because I’m old and can no longer care for myself

You’re asking me what I would want. And i said I’d rather die. And the stats from what I’ve read is once you’re in LTC, you’re there for about a year at most. Spare me the facetime BS. At first yea, see your family…it’s great. After 3-4-5 straight months of staying in there and the visits slow down…it’s a different life, one that’s not worth living, to me anyways.

My mom and aunt were pretty relieved when my grandpa passed in 2019. 8-10 straight months of visiting him daily took its toll on them.

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

Once my brain goes I want my body to go with it. I’d just as soon someone shoot me in the head. But dying of Covid sounded just horrific. It wouldn’t be the 6 month early death that would bother me it would be the manner in leaving this earth. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Wulaw Horn

[Sawbonz 27546]

19 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Because I’m old and can no longer care for myself

You’re asking me what I would want. And i said I’d rather die. And the stats from what I’ve read is once you’re in LTC, you’re there for about a year at most. Spare me the facetime BS. At first yea, see your family…it’s great. After 3-4-5 straight months of staying in there and the visits slow down…it’s a different life, one that’s not worth living, to me anyways.

My mom and aunt were pretty relieved when my grandpa passed in 2019. 8-10 straight months of visiting him daily took its toll on them.

Your post I responded to was stage 4 cancer. What you are describing here is not that.