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Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

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Goredho

Goredho 17422

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If it originated in a Chinese lab does not mean that the public health threat to the United States wasn’t grossly mismanaged by President Trump at the time.

The 400,000+ caskets he left out front of the White House shoulda toldja.

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Uncle Boobs
Uncle Boobs

Against my better judgment and several beers deep, I have taken you up on this, potentially ending my streak of totally worthless posts. I have done 3 and 7 day averages only on the Worldometer data. 

Brisketexan
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Daughter’s home. A little PTSD, we’re picking up Whataburger to help.

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Just try and imagine GreenspointTexas being the person to intubate you as you fight for your life against COVID-19. You’re laying there gasping for air while he chastises you for all the things you li

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Hookah Horns

Hookah Horns 3083

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3 hours ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

 

Trying a little introspection here, but I'm not sure that was the case for me.  I dismissed it because the lab theory was so tied to "weaponized virus" and other conspiracy nonsense that I wasn't able to parse out (what now looks to be) the nugget of truth.  I'll concede a great amount of hate toward Trump, but I don't think my general brain worms ate up the part of my head I was using for this task.

Same here. I think most people ignored the lab release theory because most of the noise on the topic came from Trumpers who were saying without any evidence that China did this on purpose, which never made any sense. And then there was the journal who concluded from studying the viral genome that the virus wasn't man-made. I'm not sure if that conclusion conflicts with the idea that it resulted from gain of function experiments in the Wuhan lab. 

A few months ago I started reading about the circumstantial evidence pointing to accidental release, and it seemed like it was pretty obviously the most likely cause. 

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elguapo

elguapo 4586

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Fuck China

I've always thought it was likely the virus was inadvertently leaked from the Wuhan lab. It's too much of a coincidence that it originated in that area AND the origin animal hasn't been traced/identified. Also, whenever Trump was telling us that President Xi was doing a tremendous job in being incredibly transparent that meant China is covering this shit up like crazy.

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Hookah Horns

Hookah Horns 3083

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It's also worth recognizing that Trump was focused on blaming China in order to keep the attention off his inability to sanely respond to the threat. 

He was focusing on whom to blame when the rest of us were only concerned about containing the virus. 

So who gives a fuck if he was right. He was answering the wrong question. 

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WBT

WBT 20671

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Fuck China

I've always thought it was likely the virus was inadvertently leaked from the Wuhan lab. It's too much of a coincidence that it originated in that area AND the origin animal hasn't been traced/identified. Also, whenever Trump was telling us that President Xi was doing a tremendous job in being incredibly transparent that meant China is covering this shit up like crazy.

Yep.  I don't get the posts saying the lab theory was championed by trump.  Maybe his wingnut supporters. Trump was too busy praising Xi up until he realized covid could cost him the election which was when he pivoted to China virus.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11365

Posted
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22 hours ago, babysdaddy said:

The previous difference is that this one would actually have information posted in between versions of "the chicom bat virus is the cause of everything"/"Cuoumo killed old people and covered it up for book $" and bombing runs from active CR posters that would come over and say "desantis is the devil" or "none of this would've happened if Trump was dead".  Those competing commentary annoyed Hayden so he effectively killed the thread.  Good job

yall want to have a news update thread, have a news update thread. this thread was politicized forever ago, and i should have moved it sometime last year, probably around the time immamac renamed it to feature lots of politics.

 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted (edited)

Bring a bucket and a mop for this wet-ass market.  

Ben Shaprio knew the origin truth the whole time. 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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One of the reasons the lab is in Wuhan is due to the proximity to virus potential/outbreaks is my recollection. Which was why we (the US) was there in the first place. Until we weren't. If one is constantly behind the virus, how many people were ill with asymptomatic contagion prior to it even being noticed? Could be weeks, correct or no?

So maybe it was from the wet market...

In 2008 HHS fined Texas A&M $1 million dollars for lab safety lapses at its biodefense laboratory, which included workers falling ill.

So maybe it was from the lab...

This is why the WH is supporting an independent investigation. But I agree with the officials who are suggesting that getting into a shouting match with China at this point in time not only is a mistake, but is further politicizing the issue and will not help fighting future virus outbreaks, unintentional or otherwise.

 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45749

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18 minutes ago, WBT said:

Yep.  I don't get the posts saying the lab theory was championed by trump.  Maybe his wingnut supporters. Trump was too busy praising Xi up until he realized covid could cost him the election which was when he pivoted to China virus.

Holy shit this.  He reacted like a person who knows nothing about science or leading or basically doing anything except being a con man would react.  This just seems like his supporters looking for any out to to not blame him for his colossal fuck ups.

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Goredho

Goredho 17422

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3 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

Same here. I think most people ignored the lab release theory because most of the noise on the topic came from Trumpers who were saying without any evidence that China did this on purpose, which never made any sense. And then there was the journal who concluded from studying the viral genome that the virus wasn't man-made. I'm not sure if that conclusion conflicts with the idea that it resulted from gain of function experiments in the Wuhan lab. 

A few months ago I started reading about the circumstantial evidence pointing to accidental release, and it seemed like it was pretty obviously the most likely cause. 

I personally didn’t give a shit about whether this came from a Chinese lab or wet market, to be honest.  Exactly how it entered the human population has been largely irrelevant.  What has been supremely important was controlling its spread amongst the human population.  We have only relatively recently gotten that under control in this country through vaccine development, production and rollout.

Now that the immediate public health threat has passed, I am glad there are people looking hard at how and why this entered the human population.  If It escaped a Chinese lab, they need to answer for that.

I also think it’s important to look hard at how and why 580,000+ Americans have died to date.  What public health lessons are there to be learned?  Because whether it came from a bat or a lab, this coronavirus will not be the last global pandemic to threaten us.

No one should want covid-19’s Chinese origins OR the federal and state public health responses to it to avoid scrutiny.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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17 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I personally didn’t give a shit about whether this came from a Chinese lab or wet market, to be honest.  Exactly how it entered the human population has been largely irrelevant.  What has been supremely important was controlling its spread amongst the human population.  We have only relatively recently gotten that under control in this country through vaccine development, production and rollout.

Now that the immediate public health threat has passed, I am glad there are people looking hard at how and why this entered the human population.  If It escaped a Chinese lab, they need to answer for that.

I also think it’s important to look hard at how and why 580,000+ Americans have died to date.  What public health lessons are there to be learned?  Because whether it came from a bat or a lab, this coronavirus will not be the last global pandemic to threaten us.

No one should want covid-19’s Chinese origins OR the federal and state public health responses to it to avoid scrutiny.

Our population is fat and disgusting.  

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Hookah Horns

Hookah Horns 3083

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31 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I personally didn’t give a shit about whether this came from a Chinese lab or wet market, to be honest.  Exactly how it entered the human population has been largely irrelevant.  What has been supremely important was controlling its spread amongst the human population.  We have only relatively recently gotten that under control in this country through vaccine development, production and rollout.

Now that the immediate public health threat has passed, I am glad there are people looking hard at how and why this entered the human population.  If It escaped a Chinese lab, they need to answer for that.

I also think it’s important to look hard at how and why 580,000+ Americans have died to date.  What public health lessons are there to be learned?  Because whether it came from a bat or a lab, this coronavirus will not be the last global pandemic to threaten us.

No one should want covid-19’s Chinese origins OR the federal and state public health responses to it to avoid scrutiny.

Chinese needs to be held accountable, but I also think the whole planet needs to nix these viral gain of function experiments regardless of where this bug originated. The risks of creating supercharged pathogens we're defenseless against dwarve the potential rewards. It's just insane to me that this has been going on. 

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Goredho

Goredho 17422

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16 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

If you haven't read this yet, make it the next thing you read:

0393881555.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_SX500_.jpg

Maybe his best book, which is saying a lot.  

(How many fucking Covid threads do we have?)

Cool, thanks for the rec.  I would recommend back to you https://www.amazon.com/Spillover-Animal-Infections-Human-Pandemic/dp/0393066800

51x-X0cUnZL._SX327_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

I read it like 3-4 years ago, and it was interesting as hell then and highly relevant to the covid-19 pandemic now.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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5 hours ago, babysdaddy said:

 

Now show me China's lies.  We can see who lied the most and then I'll know who to believe. 

 

Or, stay with me Jimbo, I could use common sense.

China lied constantly and the scum bag orange lying sack of shit who used to stink up the white house and was a national disgrace lied constantly as well. What’s your point?

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babysdaddy

babysdaddy 2728

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7 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

China lied constantly and the scum bag orange lying sack of shit who used to stink up the white house and was a national disgrace lied constantly as well. What’s your point?

The political environment in the country restricted individual's ability to look objectively at the situation.  And people that loathe Trump choose to believe the story the Chinese government was spinning over the US government because of that hatred. Only now that President Biden is in office the most plausible story of the source of the outbreak is being able to be discussed rationally.  The immediate reaction from our most respected newspapers and media organizations was to dismiss the lap leak theory out of hand because Republicans dared to point to the possibility.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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1 minute ago, babysdaddy said:

The political environment in the country restricted individual's ability to look objectively at the situation.  And people that loathe Trump choose to believe the story the Chinese government was spinning over the US government because of that hatred. Only now that President Biden is in office the most plausible story of the source of the outbreak is being able to be discussed rationally.  The immediate reaction from our most respected newspapers and media organizations was to dismiss the lap leak theory out of hand because Republicans dared to point to the possibility.

I actually agree with you. My hatred at having a complete liar scumbag as the president temporarily blinded me to the issue. Mea culpa. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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7 minutes ago, Satchel said:

When Biden took office, only 1% of American adults were fully vaccinated. Today, that number is 53%. 
 

Elections matter.

I said almost a year ago that the worst day this country would see for COVID was the day before that scumbag was finally thrown out of office and damn I was right.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23489

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5 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

The political environment in the country restricted individual's ability to look objectively at the situation.  And people that loathe Trump choose to believe the story the Chinese government was spinning over the US government because of that hatred. Only now that President Biden is in office the most plausible story of the source of the outbreak is being able to be discussed rationally.  The immediate reaction from our most respected newspapers and media organizations was to dismiss the lap leak theory out of hand because Republicans dared to point to the possibility.

We are broken by our politics. The media and social media are not helping. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

We are broken by our politics. The media and social media are not helping. 

It doesn’t help that one of our two major parties has turned to full on fascism, idol worshipping a wannabe dictator scumbag, has no platform and believes in lies.

Perhaps that might be the problem here?

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Continental Op

Continental Op 3934

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The virus came from somewhere in China, be it from a wet market or a lab.  We need to figure out what happened and try to keep it from happening again.

The experience with the virus in the US was made worse by the fact we had a president who thought you could cure it by injecting bleach and shoving a UV light up your ass.  We need to keep that from happening again as well.  

These are not mutually exclusive. 

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19146

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The virus came from somewhere in China, be it from a wet market or a lab.  We need to figure out what happened and try to keep it from happening again.
The experience with the virus in the US was made worse by the fact we had a president who thought you could cure it by injecting bleach and shoving a UV light up your ass.  We need to keep that from happening again as well.  
These are not mutually exclusive. 

Exactly.
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Goredho

Goredho 17422

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Posted (edited)

Governors and state governments aren’t exempt.  NY/Cuomo needs to be held accountable for nursing home death stat fudging, etc...

I’m an engineering leader in my company.  I am constantly reviewing my efforts, acknowledging my mistakes and attempting to learn from them and improve my ability to deliver.  I do this openly and transparently with my teams and they do the same.  None of us are afraid to admit when we’ve fucked up, because we learn from it and do better.  One type of individual that gets weeded out very quickly from our org are those who cannot abide questions and scrutiny and who insist on being siloed.

It is not wrong to expect and demand the same from our government officials, regardless of what party they belong to.  Hell, it’s a fucking civic responsibility of us lucky enough to live in a democracy.  If we just let the fallible humans in positions of leadership and authority fuck up without consequence, then they will continue to do so and the public will pay the price.

Covid-19 has killed more Americans than WWII.  It may kill more than who died in the Civil War before its finished.  But we are supposed to just accept that as inevitable?  Fuck that shit.  I have never seen leaders more defensive and adverse to basic scrutiny than our former President and today’s GOP.  About covid-19, about Russia’s involvement in the 2016 election, about the Ukraine/Hunter Biden scandal, about January 6th, and any number of other things.  That pretty much tells me all I need to know about how committed they are to serving the greater public good.

Edited by Goredho
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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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Posted
12 hours ago, Goredho said:

Governors and state governments aren’t exempt.  NY/Cuomo needs to be held accountable for nursing home death stat fudging, etc...

I’m an engineering leader in my company.  I am constantly reviewing my efforts, acknowledging my mistakes and attempting to learn from them and improve my ability to deliver.  I do this openly and transparently with my teams and they do the same.  None of us are afraid to admit when we’ve fucked up, because we learn from it and do better.  One type of individual that gets weeded out very quickly from our org are those who cannot abide questions and scrutiny and who insist on being siloed.

It is not wrong to expect and demand the same from our government officials, regardless of what party they belong to.  Hell, it’s a fucking civic responsibility of us lucky enough to live in a democracy.  If we just let the fallible humans in positions of leadership and authority fuck up without consequence, then they will continue to do so and the public will pay the price.

Covid-19 has killed more Americans than WWII.  It may kill more than who died in the Civil War before its finished.  But we are supposed to just accept that as inevitable?  Fuck that shit.  I have never seen leaders more defensive and adverse to basic scrutiny than our former President and today’s GOP.  About covid-19, about Russia’s involvement in the 2016 election, about the Ukraine/Hunter Biden scandal, about January 6th, and any number of other things.  That pretty much tells me all I need to know about how committed they are to serving the greater public good.

So, here’s the real deal. We’ve discussed this when the thread was on DT so y’all may have missed it. 
 

Trump could’ve done much better. There’s two basic things that he really botched that could’ve made a difference. 1-Shutting down Euro air traffic at same time as China. Our country was being seeded with Covid the whole time and we didn’t know it. 2- more strongly encourage mask usage. This is obvious. 
 

What difference would all the toughest measures had made? Well the “best” performing Western European country was Germany. They were often cited for how well they were doing. They ranked 42nd and had 1,055 deaths per million. We ended up 16th with 1,792 deaths per million. Actually did better than the UK. In the same neighborhood as most of Western Europe. If we got down to German performance with all their measures we would’ve still had 346,000 dead. So better but still a large amount.
 

Some posters here try to act like any number of deaths above zero was directly attributable to one person or political party. That’s just not true. 

Covid was a global calamity and it’s looking more and more like it was visited on the world because of Chinese incompetence. What should be the repercussions for that? I don’t know, but to act like it’s inconsequential to know how this happened is a strange position to me.
 

If one of “Trump’s Virus Labs” had released this to the world this board would be screaming about how horrible we were as a nation. Throwing ourselves at the mercy of the court, suggesting punishments for ourselves. 

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tigol

tigol 2409

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Posted

DT posters on the Wimberley Nextdoor page:

"You all should buy Faucian Bargain by Steve Deace of the Blaze.......he exposes the hypocrisy of Fauci from the get go......when I was growing up in the 50s and one of my siblings came home sick.....my mother stuck us all in the same bedroom to make sure we all got it and got over it quickly........I'm talking Mumps......Whooping cough etc......today we act like we are going to die if some one sneezes on us.........which is exactly what people have been doing for years.......til Fauci decided that he was some God like person and only he knows how to help!!!! I trust my mother long before I would ever trust a Dr today!!!! I believe China virus is just like a flu.......some people will die and some won't.......but, I am shocked when I look around at all the SHEEPLE that have developed over the years........we didn't make it through Polio and all the flus within the last 70 years by being arfraid to breath!!!!! And I am sooooo proud that our Parents made it through the Great Depression and WWI and WWII........and I am sure they are rolling over in their graves at the site of what has happened to ADULTS in America today........we have become so soft and spoiled that if China comes knocking on our DOOR next year saying that they are taking over.........YOU ALL WILL RUN and HIDE and become their little bitch robots like the Chinese people are today........"

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Real goddamned testing and tracing would’ve helped. You know, the obvious way to contain any epidemic. You’d think a doctor would realize that.

Did they not have that in Germany?

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