Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

19 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

yall want to have a news update thread, have a news update thread.

Done!

 

[babysdaddy 2730]

15 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Conservatives never would've listened to a President Hillary. But most of them would have listened to Trump if he'd told them it was bad, it was airborne, and to sacrifice for America or whatever by social distancing, masking, and cooperating with tracing efforts. And because liberals and conservatives aren't actually two sides of the same coin. Liberals also would've done the same because we don't actually politicize everything; we took the pandemic seriously because it was a fucking pandemic, not because we thought doing so made Trump look bad.

Sometimes I read things on this board that are so delusional I wonder if it is made in jest.  Liberals don't politicize everything?  Jesus wildcat.  

Go back to last February and imagine Trump, coming off his 2nd impeachment in which every liberal in this country wanted him executed, dictating a hard lockdown, mask wearing, and social isolation.  The behavior and amount of guttural screaming from liberals about him being a racist dictator and a nazi would've made the antimask maga faction look like the care bears.

[GRHorn 105]

6 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Ah yes, routed from your first two ditches, you settle into your last ditch: illogical dismissing of what you read. Implicit in my post is the likelihood that the loons would have stayed home had their cult leader told them to.

You wouldn't know a good fight if you saw one. Your reason to fight is absent goodness, decency, integrity, honesty, or any other easily attained virtues associated with "good."

You're an amateur operative, plain and simple. 

You’re wrong. There was a large contingent of people on the Right that were quick to question the justification of locking down when Trump was still for it.  
 

[BabaYaga 15375]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

You know there's a perfectly good explanation for that that isn't "FUCK TRUMP!" right?

In your mind, I'm sure there is.

[Dahobbs 17811]

23 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Nonsense. Being the global center of commerce and travel, our country was thoroughly seeded through NYC air traffic before we even really understood what was happening. 

Italy was experiencing over 700 deaths per day before we really did anything. If your view is that the only thing we could have done was to shutdown international travel to reduce "seeding" then maybe your point would be somewhat valid. Of course, that is a completely asinine argument. We may have had infection points earlier in the process, but there was plenty of warning that we needed to be taking measures to prepare hospitals and reduce causalities. I mean, even fucking China told us they were locking down cities full of millions of people in goddamn January. Unfortunately, that whole time somebody was telling us it was no worse than the flu, so no big deal.  But if you want additional evidence that we had advance warning, this thread was started on January 22, 2020. Pray tell, when your dear leader start to tell people this was a serious illness? 

[wildcat09 29453]

1 minute ago, babysdaddy said:

Sometimes I read things on this board that are so delusional I wonder if it is made in jest.  Liberals don't politicize everything?  Jesus wildcat.  

Go back to last February and imagine Trump, coming off his 2nd impeachment in which every liberal in this country wanted him executed, dictating a hard lockdown, mask wearing, and social isolation.  The behavior and amount of guttural screaming from liberals about him being a racist dictator and a nazi would've made the antimask maga faction look like the care bears.

First impeachment, but whatever.

I'll concede that if Trump had just said "there's a disease and I have to do this!" without anything more, yeah that wouldn't have been popular. But if Fauci and other scientists had publicly spoken about the dangers of the disease and the need to take these steps at the same time, I guarantee you you wouldn't have had armed leftwing mobs invading statehouses in protest. 

[BabaYaga 15375]

1 minute ago, babysdaddy said:

Sometimes I read things on this board that are so delusional I wonder if it is made in jest.  Liberals don't politicize everything?  Jesus wildcat.  

Go back to last February and imagine Trump, coming off his 2nd impeachment in which every liberal in this country wanted him executed, dictating a hard lockdown, mask wearing, and social isolation.  The behavior and amount of guttural screaming from liberals about him being a racist dictator and a nazi would've made the antimask maga faction look like the care bears.

The initial flight & travel restrictions were likened to every "ism" in the book:  Racism.  Fascism.  Xenophobia.  Etc.  Then very quickly pivoted to he's not doing enough.  It would have been an endless waterfall of shit on every proposed action requested by the administration.  

[bad_teammate 13302]

"Oh well uhhh liberals do it, too!" is truly a stirring defense of right-wing politics. 

[wildcat09 29453]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

In your mind, I'm sure there is.

You really can't think of a reason for Pelosi to have said that, when she said it in late February 2020 before anyone outside the administration knew how serious the danger was?

[Dahobbs 17811]

13 minutes ago, TexasPride10 said:

Fair point, but I just think that's an impossible scenario. The majority of the country is too set into their ways (as far as left vs right is concerned). As I mentioned before in a different post, if Trump had come out super early and suggested the lockdowns and mask mandates, every democratic leader would have used that to further push their point that Trump wanted to be a ruthless dictator. 

Oh fucking horseshit. Just another conservative bullshit talking point. If nothing happened to support our point, let's just make something up. 

[BabaYaga 15375]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

But if Fauci and other scientists had publicly spoken about the dangers of the disease and the need to take these steps at the same time

So you agree at the very least we need to investigate Faucci's claims of the genesis of this virus possibly coning from a lab?

[BabaYaga 15375]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

You really can't think of a reason for Pelosi to have said that, when she said it in late February 2020 before anyone outside the administration knew how serious the danger was?

Political opportunism

Nor is the bolded part accurate.  We knew China was doing GOF research in that very lab going back to 2018 when safety citations were issued.  Further, bot the CDC and WHO were posting steady updates on at the time was labeled a "pandemic"

Edited May 26, 2021 by BabaYaga

[babysdaddy 2730]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

First impeachment, but whatever.

I'll concede that if Trump had just said "there's a disease and I have to do this!" without anything more, yeah that wouldn't have been popular. But if Fauci and other scientists had publicly spoken about the dangers of the disease and the need to take these steps at the same time, I guarantee you you wouldn't have had armed leftwing mobs invading statehouses in protest. 

I lost count 😆

[wildcat09 29453]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

So you agree at the very least we need to investigate Faucci's claims of the genesis of this virus possibly coning from a lab?

That's a complete change of topic, but sure? You can run a search of all of my posts here and you'll never find one rejecting the possibility of a lab-leak as the origin.

[Dahobbs 17811]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

So you agree at the very least we need to investigate Faucci's claims of the genesis of this virus possibly coning from a lab?

We are investigating that. You of course are taking the ending of the one state department investigation out of context. It's your thing. I don't think anyone ever said there was no chance it was accidentally released from the lab. The primary thing the scientific community pushed back on was the idea that it was a manufactured or modified virus. 

[wildcat09 29453]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Political opportunism

You do know what district she represents, right? Her first job is literally to represent and serve their interests. 

ETA: seriously, fuck you for making me defend Pelosi.

Edited May 26, 2021 by wildcat09

[TexasPride10 580]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Oh fucking horseshit. Just another conservative bullshit talking point. If nothing happened to support our point, let's just make something up. 

Do you care to elaborate? Do you REALLY think that if Trump had suggested a mask mandate at the same time that Dr. Fauci literally said "You don't need to wear a face mask. It won't protect you from this virus", that everyone on both sides of the aisle would have sided with Trump on that one? 

Edited May 26, 2021 by TexasPride10

[jimmyjazz 46477]

14 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi toured San Francisco’s Chinatown Monday to send a message. She said there’s no reason tourists or locals should be staying away from the area out of fear over coronavirus concerns. Mark Matthews reports.

February 24th.  Now show us that Pelosi never wavered from that stance.

Edited May 26, 2021 by jimmyjazz

[jimmyjazz 46477]

11 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Sometimes I read things on this board that are so delusional I wonder if it is made in jest.  Liberals don't politicize everything?  Jesus wildcat.  

Go back to last February and imagine Trump, coming off his 2nd impeachment

He wasn't impeached a 2nd time until this year.

Quote

in which every liberal in this country wanted him executed, dictating a hard lockdown, mask wearing, and social isolation.  The behavior and amount of guttural screaming from liberals about him being a racist dictator and a nazi would've made the antimask maga faction look like the care bears.

You're completely full of shit.  I mean, 100% full of USDA Grade A shit.  Come on.

[BabaYaga 15375]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

We are investigating that. You of course are taking the ending of the one state department investigation out of context. It's your thing. I don't think anyone ever said there was no chance it was accidentally released from the lab. The primary thing the scientific community pushed back on was the idea that it was a manufactured or modified virus. 

Then why did the WH just disband a probe looking into the possibility of it being manufactured?  And don't say they are leaving it to the CDC and WHO.  China has expressly forbid ANY outside medical verifications of any kind.  This is both a medical, and political problem.  

[BabaYaga 15375]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

You do know what district she represents, right? Her first job is literally to represent and serve their interests. 

ETA: seriously, fuck you for making me defend Pelosi.

Gotcha.....

[babysdaddy 2730]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

He wasn't impeached a 2nd time until this year.

You're completely full of shit.  I mean, 100% full of USDA Grade A shit.  Come on.

It's wagyu shit, actually.  But not on that

[TexasPride10 580]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

You're completely full of shit.  I mean, 100% full of USDA Grade A shit.  Come on.

You would have started wearing a mask because Trump told you to while Dr. Fauci was telling you not to? 

[wildcat09 29453]

1 minute ago, TexasPride10 said:

Do you care to elaborate? Do you REALLY think that if Trump had suggested a mask mandate at the same time that Dr. Fauci literally said "You don't need to wear a face mask. It won't protect you from this virus", that everyone on both sides of the aisle would side with Trump on that one? 

I think that was a huge mistake on Fauci's part, but in our hypothetical the factors that motivated him to say that never would've happened. He was trying to ensure that first responders and hospitals had masks first, because absolutely no work had been done in prior months to increase the availability of masks. If Trump had taken this seriously sooner Fauci wouldn't have felt like he had to lie.

That's not intended as a defense of Fauci. As I said, I think it was a mistake and was clear about my take on that a year ago. Too many scientists have tried to become closer to PR people when communicating science to the public, by trying to anticipate how the public might react based on how they frame information, and it almost always ends up making things worse than being more straightforward likely would have been.

[jimmyjazz 46477]

1 minute ago, TexasPride10 said:

You would have started wearing a mask because Trump told you to while Dr. Fauci was telling you not to? 

Again, Fauci reversed course on that very quickly.  Had Trump supported him, my experience would have been identical:  I would have worn a mask outside the home, social distanced, and worked from home.

The demonization of a scientist for changing perspective given new information is fucking infuriating.  

[Dahobbs 17811]

Just now, TexasPride10 said:

Do you care to elaborate? Do you REALLY think that if Trump had suggested a mask mandate at the same time that Dr. Fauci literally said "You don't need to wear a face mask. It won't protect you from this virus", that everyone on both sides of the aisle would side with Trump on that one? 

Masks were a different issue at the time because we didn't have a sufficient amount of them and the available scientific data on masks indicated they didn't provide substantial protection to the wearer. That is still true. Masks inhibit the spread when everyone wears them. Had Trump and the federal government started telling us the importance of limiting the spread and explained the serious nature of the illness, I'm confident the vast majority of democrats would back initiatives to limit the spread. I mean, we literally saw them do that, so I don't know why feel everything would change in your hypothetical.  

[Goredho 17511]

30 minutes ago, TexasPride10 said:

I'm no Trump-apologist, but I'll play Devil's advocate here:  Many of you have stated that Trump should have pushed for mask mandates, lockdowns, contact tracing, etc. immediately in February 2020 when the virus first emerged and he found out how bad it could possibly get. I won't argue with any of that; because hindsight is 20/20, and hindsight tells us that had we done all of those things back in February 2020, many lives probably would have been saved. 

So now let's pretend Trump lost the 2016 election and Hillary was in charge back in February 2020. For the sake of the argument, let's say as soon as Hillary found out about the virus in February 2020, she did the "right thing" and came out and said that we shouldn't leave our houses unless it was absolutely necessary and that we should all wear masks if we did absolutely have to go out into public, etc. etc. Does anyone here really think the vast majority of Americans would have just abided by all of those things? Seriously. Close 600k Americans have died of Covid as of today, and there's still a huge chunk of our population that refuses to wear a facemask. There's no way people were going to wear them back when there were only a handful of active cases in the country, regardless of who was telling them to do it. 

The reality is; no matter who was in charge when this whole thing first started you were going to have half the U.S. population wanting to do what the president said, and you were going to have the other half the population saying "SEE?! That's why I didn't vote for this crazy fucker!" Sure, the person that was actually in charge when this whole thing started could have done many things better and more efficiently, but the bottom line is that the American people were never going to handle this thing as well as some other countries. I think we can all probably agree on that.

Repped because this is a perfectly valid point of view expressed in good faith.  I disagree...

We had a helter-skelter stream of conflicting information from all sources, including all levels of government, and that absolutely played a role in why many people did not accept the CDC's guidance.  Conservative leadership did all they could to downplay the threat, called it the flu, pushed herd immunity, it will just go away, etc...  A good percentage of the population only really accepts information from conservative sources, and those sources were largely working against the advice of experts in the field.

Would everyone tuned into Fox, OAN or Newsmax have jumped on the invasive containment bandwagon if the information being presented to them was not laced with untruths and disinformation about the coronavirus?  No, absolutely not.  Would more have?  Certainly yes.  Is it OK that conservative leaders and news orgs peddled blatant disinformation that undermined the effort to effectively combat the pandemic here at home?  Fuck no.

[Dahobbs 17811]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Then why did the WH just disband a probe looking into the possibility of it being manufactured?  And don't say they are leaving it to the CDC and WHO.  China has expressly forbid ANY outside medical verifications of any kind.  This is both a medical, and political problem.  

A single probe in one department of the government was disbanded. 

"The decision to terminate the inquiry, which was run primarily out of the State Department's arms control and verification bureau, was made after Biden officials were briefed on the team's draft findings in February and March of this year, a State Department spokesperson said. Questions were raised about the legitimacy of the findings and the project was deemed to be an ineffective use of resources, explained a source familiar with the decision.

Though Biden officials shut down this particular inquiry, they remain skeptical of Beijing's role in limiting investigators from accessing information that may be pertinent to the origins of the virus. US intelligence agencies continue to examine the question of whether the virus emerged naturally from human contact with infected animals or if it could have been the result of a laboratory accident."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/25/politics/biden-shut-down-trump-effort-coronavirus-chinese-lab/index.html

 

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

Hahaha someone needed a safe space and started another DT thread with a CR name 

[wildcat09 29453]

Biden said in a debate more than a year ago that unlike Trump, he wouldn't just accept China's explanation. Trump spent most of last spring kissing Xi's ass and talking about what an amazing job he'd done containing covid.

[jimmyjazz 46477]

9 minutes ago, TexasPride10 said:

You would have started wearing a mask because Trump told you to while Dr. Fauci was telling you not to? 

Let's dive into the implications of this question:  why would you assume Trump would automatically push back on whatever Fauci's advice was?  Why shouldn't the POTUS in general trust his senior medical and scientific leadership, given the fact that said POTUS has no medical or scientific training himself?

I wish Trump had backed up Fauci and the rest of the scientific community all along.  He didn't.  Your question pretty much implies that it would not shock you for Trump to simply be anti-science instead of anti-lockdown, etc.

[BabaYaga 15375]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

A single probe in one department of the government was disbanded.

What doe this have to do with anything?  It was a dedicated probe specifically into the now ever expanding claims that that this was a lab leak.  That you are goal tending and shilling about this is telling.  

[BabaYaga 15375]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Biden said in a debate more than a year ago that unlike Trump, he wouldn't just accept China's explanation. Trump spent most of last spring kissing Xi's ass and talking about what an amazing job he'd done containing covid.

It was a Trump initiated probe.  LOL

If this happened under another administration and Trump came in and expressly cancelled the investigation into the origins of the virus this board would lose their collective shit...but because it's "their team", it's meh, it's really just ONE probe.  Not like it was TWO probes....that would be bad.

Edited May 26, 2021 by BabaYaga

[jimmyjazz 46477]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

It was a Trump initiated probe.  LOL

You do recall Trump's sudden reversal on China, right?  He fellated Xi for months and then suddenly it was "the China virus".

[Dahobbs 17811]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

What doe this have to do with anything?  It was a dedicated probe specifically into the now ever expanding claims that that this was a lab leak.  That you are goal tending and shilling about this is telling.  

 

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

It was a Trump initiated probe.  LOL

Again, it was one probe in one department of the government. It was not, and is not, the entirety of the effort to identify the source of the virus. The government continues other efforts to determine if the virus was released from the lab. Why is this so hard for you? Isn't inefficient to have a bunch of groups duplicating the same work? Especially if one of those groups isn't particularly competent and keeps releasing shoddy work product? 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Dahobbs

[wildcat09 29453]

BabaYaga is just throwing shit at the wall. There's no productive conversation to be had here with him.

[babysdaddy 2730]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Let's dive into the implications of this question:  why would you assume Trump would automatically push back on whatever Fauci's advice was?  Why shouldn't the POTUS in general trust his senior medical and scientific leadership, given the fact that said POTUS has no medical or scientific training himself?

I wish Trump had backed up Fauci and the rest of the scientific community all along.  He didn't.  Your question pretty much implies that it would not shock you for Trump to simply be anti-science instead of anti-lockdown, etc.

Here is a hypothetical for you, say Trump did back up Fauci the entire time (I think I remember them working well together at first) and encouraged mask wearing and was deferential to the scientific team the entire time and ended up reelected.  Would you have preferred that alternate timeline to the one we have?

[jimmyjazz 46477]

1 minute ago, babysdaddy said:

Here is a hypothetical for you, say Trump did back up Fauci the entire time (I think I remember them working well together at first) and encouraged mask wearing and was deferential to the scientific team the entire time and ended up reelected.  Would you have preferred that alternate timeline to the one we have?

Absolutely.  I think his administration was an unmitigated disaster, but hundreds of thousands of lives kinda mean something.

[GRHorn 105]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Biden said in a debate more than a year ago that unlike Trump, he wouldn't just accept China's explanation. Trump spent most of last spring kissing Xi's ass and talking about what an amazing job he'd done containing covid.

Well if he said it in a debate you can take it to the bank. Good ole Joe. How’s that student loan debt forgiveness going?

[InkaUtexas 26356]

I have never supported Trump, but it should be noted we were taking our lead from The WHO at first. And I hope we won't get fooled again. 

So lets say the speculation and discussions between the big brains at NIH, CDC, DOS, CIA and WHO was this was not an escaped virus, but naturally occurring. OK, that is the story line. But then intel is developed and we change our view. That happens sometimes. Concerning providing the information to the public, sometimes you just cannot do that since this would blow any source it came from. With the way china locked down on information it would have to be someone senior who passed something over to us if true. 

And let's be honest. NO ONE got this right except for maybe South Korea. NZ does not count. They just closed their islands to the world and can afford to do it. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by InkaUtexas

[elfenix 34386]

Gosh I've missed the conservative grievance myth crew

[BabaYaga 15375]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

 

Again, it was one probe in one department of the government. It was not, and is not, the entirety of the effort to identify the source of the virus. The government continues other efforts to determine if the virus was released from the lab. Why is this so hard for you? Isn't inefficient to have a bunch of groups duplicating the same work? Especially if one of those groups isn't particularly competent and keeps releasing shoddy work product? 

You realize you are just shilling, right?  CNN?  The whole articles spin is about this being a witch hunt.  Shut down over a lack of "evidence" - yeah, no shit.  China destroyed all the labs, samples, and data and put the entire medical and scientific community on lock down and fear of death.  You have Faucci saying we need to investigate.  You assume all the intelligence agencies are investigating, but you don't really know.  Biden states he wants support for the WHO to do the work.  Cool story.  China owns the WHO, lock stock and barrel.  Why is this so hard for you?

[wildcat09 29453]

Why do you think China owns the WHO?

[Dahobbs 17811]

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

You realize you are just shilling, right?  CNN?  The whole articles spin is about this being a witch hunt.  Shut down over a lack of "evidence" - yeah, no shit.  China destroyed all the labs, samples, and data and put the entire medical and scientific community on lock down and fear of death.  You have Faucci saying we need to investigate.  You assume all the intelligence agencies are investigating, but you don't really know.  Biden states he wants support for the WHO to do the work.  Cool story.  China owns the WHO, lock stock and barrel.  Why is this so hard for you?

It says the probe was shut down because it wasn't effectively managed and its work product was sloppy. It wasn't because of a lack of evidence, not directly anyway. I trust that our intelligence agencies have been trying to determine the source of the virus from the beginning. It is an important part of responding to the virus, but it is not the most important or time sensitive part of the response. The only reason the WHO would be owned by China right now is because Trump decided we should completely abandon our leadership position in it. Of course your claim of China ownership is belied by the fact that the WHO is still advocating further research into the lab release hypothesis:

Quote

After the report’s publication, the WHO director-general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, who was not directly involved with the investigation, posted a statement saying that he looks forward to future studies of the coronavirus’s animal origins — but that he wasn’t content with the examination of a potential laboratory leak. “I do not believe that this assessment was extensive enough,” he wrote. “This requires further investigation, potentially with additional missions involving specialist experts, which I am ready to deploy.” 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00865-8

Anyway, at this point, based on China's reaction, I assume the lab fucked up and accidentally released the virus. Getting that confirmed doesn't really change anything for me or anyone else. But it is important to know so that we, the whole world, can hopefully avoid future incidents. 

[Dahobbs 17811]

12 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Why do you think China owns the WHO?

It's not because he is shilling for someone else, that much is certain. Only like 70% of his posts are direct copy and pastes from fringe websites and facebook posts. That's how you know he isn't "shilling."

[wildcat09 29453]

The really cool thing is when he quotes shit without attributing its source. All honest people do that.

[jimmyjazz 46477]

18 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Why do you think China owns the WHO?

Yeah, that's a big puzzler.

[Dahobbs 17811]

@Cheeseweasel is really upset that I negged his new attempt to create a blatantly political safe space for covid discussion in DT. He really missed their old bullshit post misleading memes and links and then complain about liberals thread.  

 

[Captainant 27972]

13 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

@Cheeseweasel is really upset that I negged his new attempt to create a blatantly political safe space for covid discussion in DT. He really missed their old bullshit post misleading memes and links and then complain about liberals thread.  

 

lol @Cheeseweasel is such a fucking snowflake. He blocked me for calling him "Fuckweasel" because calling people mean names hurts his fee-fees

[jimmyjazz 46477]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

lol @Cheeseweasel is such a fucking snowflake. He blocked me for calling him "Fuckweasel" because calling people mean names hurts his fee-fees

Shut up, Fuckant.