Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[staboner 4,969]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

No.  I don't think that we should be nuking anyone.

But I think that we should recognize threats in context and treat rogue states with a measure of equivalent balance. 

And China is a rogue state.

tough one on China. I would say they aren't a rough state so much as an actual enemy state, but yes, tis an issue. even bigger one when you economy is all interwinded and shit

[Doc Sam Beckett 5,792]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

No.  I don't think that we should be nuking anyone.

But I think that we should recognize threats in context and treat rogue states with a measure of equivalent balance. 

And China is a rogue state.

A bully doesn't pick on another bully

[staboner 4,969]

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Which of the following is more likely in the near term, say 5-10 years, in your opinion?

North Korea detonates worldwide nukes?

Iran figures outs how to rub two atoms together and irradiates some people?

We have the third cov related pandemic to emerge from China?

 

We treat these geopolitical situations very differently, dismissing objective reality. 

let us pray for more pandemics i guess. considerin how we treat the planet and animals and all - then yeah, this isn't stopping anytime soon i am afraid. 

Here Down Unda I am almost 100% certain China will threaten the US and Europe by fucking with Australia. Its been a 1 way nonstop FU from China to Oz for a year now, which has some cyber warfare in it. That will only get much worse I am afraid. Hope it stays in that arena. 

[wildcat09 29,349]

I think China plays too large a role in the global economy to be considered a rogue state. That’s something the rest of the world can decide to change, but it’s going to take time and a lot of careful diplomacy (also shitloads of bribes, probably).

[Dahobbs 17,534]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

No.  I don't think that we should be nuking anyone.

But I think that we should recognize threats in context and treat rogue states with a measure of equivalent balance. 

And China is a rogue state.

Ok? 

[Anastasis 23,469]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I think China plays too large a role in the global economy to be considered a rogue state.

realpolitik. 

[bolverk 29,670]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Yes, let me know next time GM kills millions across the world.  Then lies about their stats during a critical time of containment. Absolutely the same thing. 

You failed to address his Exxon example. How many people have died from breathing the polluted air and the spread of tropical diseases through global warming caused by the consumption of their product?

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

Okay, how would diplomatically proceed with going after Winnie after he lied about it being a problem in the first place that got millions killed. 

Good question. How would we proceed with going after a president who lied about global warming not being a problem? Or one who publicly declared it a hoax and actively blocked the means for curbing that problem and, therefore, contributing to an untold number of deaths?

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Failure to implement the appropriate safety quality controls in high level lab settings is intentional conduct. 

Regulations, man, we're failing to implement appropriate safety quality controls on all sorts of industrial activities that cause air pollution and result in deaths. By not taking action, our government must also be complicit with such intentional conduct.

 

Look, I want us to get to the bottom of this and lay the blame at the feet of the appropriate parties on all sides, and then *do something* about it. 

[DDD Dad 14,335]

I’m not interested in vilifying their people, but their govt.  And no, of course we don’t nuke them.  But they might need their aspiring first world status membership card revoked. 

Good luck with that.

[fattyflattie 4,639]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

You failed to address his Exxon example. How many people have died from breathing the polluted air and the spread of tropical diseases through global warming caused by the consumption of their product?

I found that example more preposterous than the GM example, if we’re being honest.   
 

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

How would we proceed with going after a president who lied about global warming not being a problem? Or one who publicly declared it a hoax and actively blocked the means for curbing that problem and, therefore, contributing to an untold number of deaths?

Lol. You’d rather blame Trump for his portion than the source, that thru negligence at best, and malicious intent at worst, have killed millions across the entire planet.   Maybe Trump would have taken it serious had China reported more than 14 deaths? 

 

1 hour ago, DDD Dad said:

Good luck with that.

They have 600 million people who make less than $150/month.  Even discussing them as first world is still a bit...optimistic. 

[52-80 19,150]

7 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

What exactly are you proposing? Do we have to nuke china now? All I'm saying is let's figure it out and hold the people that should be responsible, responsible. But let's not villify a bunch of innocent people because it makes you feel better to say it's really all someone else's fault. 

We don't need to propose anything.  It's the government's job to figure out the solution.  We just needed to have opened the lines to interrogating the possibility that the Chinese were involved in origination of the outbreak, and we shouldn't squashed that suspicion just because it'll hurt your feelings.

[Dahobbs 17,534]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

We don't need to propose anything.  It's the government's job to figure out the solution.  We just needed to have opened the lines to interrogating the possibility that the Chinese were involved in origination of the outbreak, and we shouldn't squashed that suspicion just because it'll hurt your feelings.

It is open. We are investigating. A redundant and poorly run operation was shuttered. That's it. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Dahobbs

[Dahobbs 17,534]

5 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I found that example more preposterous than the GM example, if we’re being honest.   
 

Lol. You’d rather blame Trump for his portion than the source, that thru negligence at best, and malicious intent at worst, have killed millions across the entire planet.   Maybe Trump would have taken it serious had China reported more than 14 deaths? 

Just so we are clear, the example was to illustrate the general principle that not every person in the country should be held responsible for the actions of the few. I wasn't attempting to compare the scope of the damage. If the Chinese government was responsible for the release, punish it accordingly. If private Chinese companies or persons were responsible, let's do what we can to hold them responsible AND work to make sure safety standards are implemented and followed in China and worldwide. 

Also your bit on Trump is nonsense. Trump knew China shutdown cities filled with millions of people in fucking January. His administration was told many times by our agencies the seriousness of the situation. It didn't matter what anyone told him about the scale of the problem, he didn't want it affecting his ratings. Just accept that. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Dahobbs

[Captainant 27,656]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Also your bit on Trump is nonsense. Trump knew China shutdown cities filled with millions of people in fucking January. His administration was told many times by our agencies the seriousness of the situation. It didn't matter what anyone told him about the scale of the problem, he didn't want it affecting his ratings. Just accept that. 

Trump is ON TAPE in February of 2020 saying how dangerous an airborne disease it is. He lied to the American people, and he knew the danger but "didn't want to scare people"

[TexasPride10 576]

21 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Let's dive into the implications of this question:  why would you assume Trump would automatically push back on whatever Fauci's advice was?  Why shouldn't the POTUS in general trust his senior medical and scientific leadership, given the fact that said POTUS has no medical or scientific training himself?

I wish Trump had backed up Fauci and the rest of the scientific community all along.  He didn't.  Your question pretty much implies that it would not shock you for Trump to simply be anti-science instead of anti-lockdown, etc.

I think you're completely missing my point. I'm not "assuming Trump would automatically push back on whatever Fauci's advice was". I'm saying we know Fauci started off by telling everyone not to wear masks. That's a verifiable fact. I am adding the hypothetical situation of Trump telling everyone to wear masks at that time, because everyone that blames Trump for the 600k dead has said that he should have pushed masks from the beginning. So my point is; had Trump pushed masks from the beginning, he would have been going against what Fauci was saying, and most people would have told him to fuck off with his mask mandates. Everyone that was already convinced he wanted to be a dictator would have had a field day with him trying to force everyone to wear face masks while Dr. Fauci was telling us we didn't need to. Thus proving my point that no matter who was in charge at the very beginning of this whole thing; it was never going to go well in America because of how passionate we all are about who we want to listen to. 

The funny thing is; none of my posts on this topic have been controversial. I've never dogged the left or the right. I've just stated that the polarization of this country was always going to prevent us from handling this pandemic as well as some other countries. The fact that I've gotten pushback on that idea is actually doing nothing but further proving my point. 

[HornOnTheBayou 8,921]

12 minutes ago, TexasPride10 said:

I think you're completely missing my point. I'm not "assuming Trump would automatically push back on whatever Fauci's advice was". I'm saying we know Fauci started off by telling everyone not to wear masks. That's a verifiable fact. I am adding the hypothetical situation of Trump telling everyone to wear masks at that time, because everyone that blames Trump for the 600k dead has said that he should have pushed masks from the beginning. So my point is; had Trump pushed masks from the beginning, he would have been going against what Fauci was saying, and most people would have told him to fuck off with his mask mandates. Everyone that was already convinced he wanted to be a dictator would have had a field day with him trying to force everyone to wear face masks while Dr. Fauci was telling us we didn't need to. Thus proving my point that no matter who was in charge at the very beginning of this whole thing; it was never going to go well in America because of how passionate we all are about who we want to listen to. 

The funny thing is; none of my posts on this topic have been controversial. I've never dogged the left or the right. I've just stated that the polarization of this country was always going to prevent us from handling this pandemic as well as some other countries. The fact that I've gotten pushback on that idea is actually doing nothing but further proving my point. 

Trump is a fucking wanna-be dictator. Masks are a common-sense measure to keep people safe when they go out in public. Anyone with two functioning brain cells can see that these statements are not mutually exclusive. I would have still worn a mask because it provides a decent level of protection from the spread of a dangerous virus while of course still trying to fight against Trump and his attempts at trying to emulate Daddy Putin.

[TexasPride10 576]

Just now, HornOnTheBayou said:

Trump is a fucking wanna-be dictator. Masks are a common-sense measure to keep people safe when they go out in public. Anyone with two functioning brain cells can see that these statements are not mutually exclusive. I would have still worn a mask because it provides a decent level of protection from the spread of a dangerous virus while of course still trying to fight against Trump and his attempts at trying to emulate Daddy Putin.

If you hate him so much, it seems weird that you'd rather take medical advice from him than a doctor. But hey man, you do you. 

[Guest Lobo]

I don't take medical advice from Trump.  But I do go to him to get all of my pro tips regarding light bulbs, cleaning products, steak grilling, high fashion, making marriages last, how to lose regulatory-guaranteed profits in the casino business, and general morality.  

[GRHorn 105]

15 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Trump is a fucking wanna-be dictator. Masks are a common-sense measure to keep people safe when they go out in public. Anyone with two functioning brain cells can see that these statements are not mutually exclusive. I would have still worn a mask because it provides a decent level of protection from the spread of a dangerous virus while of course still trying to fight against Trump and his attempts at trying to emulate Daddy Putin.

The emotional level of your response is helping prove his point. You start out cussing and end with a Putin reference.  

[HornOnTheBayou 8,921]

14 minutes ago, TexasPride10 said:

If you hate him so much, it seems weird that you'd rather take medical advice from him than a doctor. But hey man, you do you. 

 

 

Trump's endorsement of masks wouldn't make one difference in what I did. I don't take medical advice from people who suggest that injecting bleach would be a good idea. I take medical advice from my personal physicians, you know like a normal person. 

[Captainant 27,656]

32 minutes ago, TexasPride10 said:

I think you're completely missing my point. I'm not "assuming Trump would automatically push back on whatever Fauci's advice was". I'm saying we know Fauci started off by telling everyone not to wear masks. That's a verifiable fact. I am adding the hypothetical situation of Trump telling everyone to wear masks at that time, because everyone that blames Trump for the 600k dead has said that he should have pushed masks from the beginning. So my point is; had Trump pushed masks from the beginning, he would have been going against what Fauci was saying, and most people would have told him to fuck off with his mask mandates. Everyone that was already convinced he wanted to be a dictator would have had a field day with him trying to force everyone to wear face masks while Dr. Fauci was telling us we didn't need to. Thus proving my point that no matter who was in charge at the very beginning of this whole thing; it was never going to go well in America because of how passionate we all are about who we want to listen to. 

The funny thing is; none of my posts on this topic have been controversial. I've never dogged the left or the right. I've just stated that the polarization of this country was always going to prevent us from handling this pandemic as well as some other countries. The fact that I've gotten pushback on that idea is actually doing nothing but further proving my point. 

This is bullshit and dishonestly framing what happened when. Fauci did say masks weren't required in early March of 2020 (when things were very quickly going to zero and would be done by easter) which was consistent with CDC guidelines. In April of 2020 when guidelines changed, everyone but trump and the republicans got with the facemask program.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-fauci-outdated-video-masks-idUSKBN26T2TR

The continued focus on fauci to deflect from trumps maladministration is partisan itself. 

[HornOnTheBayou 8,921]

1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

The emotional level of your response is helping prove his point. You start out cussing and end with a Putin reference.  

I'm sorry, snowflake.

[fattyflattie 4,639]

3 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Also your bit on Trump is nonsense. Trump knew China shutdown cities filled with millions of people in fucking January. His administration was told many times by our agencies the seriousness of the situation. It didn't matter what anyone told him about the scale of the problem, he didn't want it affecting his ratings. Just accept that. 

And thru all this, Faucci didn’t think it was prudent to wear a mask at that same time? 

[Captainant 27,656]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

And thru all this, Faucci didn’t think it was prudent to wear a mask at that same time? 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-fauci-outdated-video-masks-idUSKBN26T2TR

Faucis guidance was consistent with CDC guidance - including the change in April that facemasks were recommended. Everyone but trump and the republicans got onboard after that. Stop with the false equivalency.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,233]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-fauci-outdated-video-masks-idUSKBN26T2TR

Faucis guidance was consistent with CDC guidance - including the change in April that facemasks were recommended. Everyone but trump and the republicans got onboard after that. Stop with the false equivalency.

Fauci has admitted he purposely misled / lied to public because doctors were having trouble getting masks and didn't want to make matters worse.  He knew they were needed from the get go.

 

[fattyflattie 4,639]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-fauci-outdated-video-masks-idUSKBN26T2TR

Faucis guidance was consistent with CDC guidance - including the change in April that facemasks were recommended. Everyone but trump and the republicans got onboard after that. Stop with the false equivalency.

It’s not.  I don’t disagree that he should have known how serious this was; I’m pretty sure we were already wearing masks by March-ish?.  My point is you can’t place blame on a non-doctor and give a pass to a world renowned Dr who said the same thing. That doesn’t make any fucking sense.  If anyone had an idea on the right steps to take, you can assume it would be the doc. 

[Captainant 27,656]

1 minute ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Fauci has admitted he purposely misled / lied to public because doctors were having trouble getting masks and didn't want to make matters worse.  He knew they were needed from the get go.

Imagine being the president and knowing that it was a deadly airborne virus and encouraging people NOT to wear facemasks. 

Look, it's not that I'm some fauci apologist - he's not done everything 100% perfectly and has made mistakes. But he has not perpetuated bad science and outright lies to the American people. HCQ? remdesivir? Bleach and UV light? Refusing to wear a mask on camera WHILE ACTIVELY INFECTED WITH COVID?

Give me a fucking break if you think fauci is the reason why trump did what he did and made the decisions he did. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,233]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Imagine being the president and knowing that it was a deadly airborne virus and encouraging people NOT to wear facemasks. 

Look, it's not that I'm some fauci apologist - he's not done everything 100% perfectly and has made mistakes. But he has not perpetuated bad science and outright lies to the American people. HCQ? remdesivir? Bleach and UV light? Refusing to wear a mask on camera WHILE ACTIVELY INFECTED WITH COVID?

Give me a fucking break if you think fauci is the reason why trump did what he did and made the decisions he did. 

Not arguing one way or the other, but blame goes all around... how long was Fauci pushing ventilator use and supply issue?  There were many unknowns and "bad" science going around from all sides.

[fattyflattie 4,639]

13 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Look, it's not that I'm some fauci apologist - he's not done everything 100% perfectly and has made mistakes. But he has not perpetuated bad science and outright lies to the American people.

Literally in post you’re replying to. Outright lies is telling the public they don’t need masks because you know doctors need them. That’s exactly what that is.   But I get it, he’s non-partisan so can’t really hate him. So the blame needs to land on the other guy. Cool. 

[wildcat09 29,349]

1 hour ago, TexasPride10 said:

I think you're completely missing my point. I'm not "assuming Trump would automatically push back on whatever Fauci's advice was". I'm saying we know Fauci started off by telling everyone not to wear masks. That's a verifiable fact. I am adding the hypothetical situation of Trump telling everyone to wear masks at that time, because everyone that blames Trump for the 600k dead has said that he should have pushed masks from the beginning. So my point is; had Trump pushed masks from the beginning, he would have been going against what Fauci was saying, and most people would have told him to fuck off with his mask mandates. Everyone that was already convinced he wanted to be a dictator would have had a field day with him trying to force everyone to wear face masks while Dr. Fauci was telling us we didn't need to. Thus proving my point that no matter who was in charge at the very beginning of this whole thing; it was never going to go well in America because of how passionate we all are about who we want to listen to. 

The funny thing is; none of my posts on this topic have been controversial. I've never dogged the left or the right. I've just stated that the polarization of this country was always going to prevent us from handling this pandemic as well as some other countries. The fact that I've gotten pushback on that idea is actually doing nothing but further proving my point. 

You’ve ignored my post pointing out that in this hypothetical Fauci probably wouldn’t have told people not to wear masks.

[workswithseed 2,103]

8 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Literally in post you’re replying to. Outright lies is telling the public they don’t need masks because you know doctors need them. That’s exactly what that is.   But I get it, he’s non-partisan so can’t really hate him. So the blame needs to land on the other guy. Cool. 

Looks at @Cheeseweasel old thread name.

[Dahobbs 17,534]

32 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

And thru all this, Faucci didn’t think it was prudent to wear a mask at that same time? 

What does Faucci have to do with anything in my statement? We had 50K dead in the United States and Trump still insisted it was a hoax and would just disappear.  Trump was not open to change his position no matter what information he was provided. China could have told him this was the worse disease in the history of time, and he still would have said it was no big deal and the US had it under control. 

Yes, Faucci was wrong on masks. I've already explained there were two reasons for his statement:

(1) The science showed masks did little to protect the wearer. That is still true. His statement was true in that from a personal protection standpoint, standard non-n95 masks were of little value. The science on them reducing transmission to others existed, but was fairly limited and needed replication. As it became clearer that masks when worn by everybody would help limit the spread, the CDC changed its guidance as did Dr. Faucci. 

(2) Our supplies of PPE was extremely limited, with not even medical professionals having adequate access.  At the time he made his statement, people were starting to hoard the more critical n-95 masks that were needed by the medical professionals. Giving our access to equipment at the time, prioritizing masks for medical professionals was clearly the correct choice. He should have communicated that message better and not mislead by suggesting that masks served no purpose. 

[Brisketexan 105,097]

11 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

I think China plays too large a role in the global economy to be considered a rogue state. That’s something the rest of the world can decide to change, but it’s going to take time and a lot of careful diplomacy (also shitloads of bribes, probably).

Getting back to that point.....our problem, and the world's problem, with China is like the old saw about the banks.  When you owe the bank $100,000, the bank owns you; when you owe the bank $1 billion....you own the bank.

Our ability to "punish China" and "sanction China" are all tied to our appetite for shitting on one of our largest trading partners (perhaps THE LARGEST, by some accounts).  And one of the globle's largest trading partners.

We have a co-dependent relationship with China.  Relationships like that may require a lot of work.  They may require some tough love.  We may have to do some things that aren't pleasant.  But we don't have the ability to just issue a "fuck you, fuck China" policy.  The effects on our economy -- and the people who depend on that trade -- would be catastrophic.

Yes, that's realpolitik.

We (not just the US, the world) needs to understand what happened in China at the inception of this outbreak.  If for NO other reason than to take measures to reduce the risk of a similar event happening again.  And we may need to impose certain restrictions and consequences on the Chinese state.  But as much as I personally love the "you fucked up and hurt me, now I'm gonna fucking wreck you" approach (in my personal life, it's a go-to....maybe not a healthy one, I've worked with my counselor on that), it's not wise at all when it comes to your largest trading partner in a global economy.

[Dahobbs 17,534]

24 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Not arguing one way or the other, but blame goes all around... how long was Fauci pushing ventilator use and supply issue?  There were many unknowns and "bad" science going around from all sides.

Ventilators were seen as important by doctors and scientists when we knew little about how to treat the disease. We realized later that we were better in most instances not using ventilators. That's called adapting to new information. 

[DDD Dad 14,335]

53 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

The emotional level of your response is helping prove his point. You start out cussing and end with a Putin reference.  

Maybe you should go play in Cheeseweasel's sandbox back in DT.

[DDD Dad 14,335]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Getting back to that point.....our problem, and the world's problem, with China is like the old saw about the banks.  When you owe the bank $100,000, the bank owns you; when you owe the bank $1 billion....you own the bank.

Our ability to "punish China" and "sanction China" are all tied to our appetite for shitting on one of our largest trading partners (perhaps THE LARGEST, by some accounts).  And one of the globle's largest trading partners.

We have a co-dependent relationship with China.  Relationships like that may require a lot of work.  They may require some tough love.  We may have to do some things that aren't pleasant.  But we don't have the ability to just issue a "fuck you, fuck China" policy.  The effects on our economy -- and the people who depend on that trade -- would be catastrophic.

Yes, that's realpolitik.

We (not just the US, the world) needs to understand what happened in China at the inception of this outbreak.  If for NO other reason than to take measures to reduce the risk of a similar event happening again.  And we may need to impose certain restrictions and consequences on the Chinese state.  But as much as I personally love the "you fucked up and hurt me, now I'm gonna fucking wreck you" approach (in my personal life, it's a go-to....maybe not a healthy one, I've worked with my counselor on that), it's not wise at all when it comes to your largest trading partner in a global economy.

In other words, good luck with that.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,233]

7 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Ventilators were seen as important by doctors and scientists when we knew little about how to treat the disease. We realized later that we were better in most instances not using ventilators. That's called adapting to new information. 

... and being open to other ideas that go against what you may have believed to be true

[Dahobbs 17,534]

1 hour ago, TexasPride10 said:

I think you're completely missing my point. I'm not "assuming Trump would automatically push back on whatever Fauci's advice was". I'm saying we know Fauci started off by telling everyone not to wear masks. That's a verifiable fact. I am adding the hypothetical situation of Trump telling everyone to wear masks at that time, because everyone that blames Trump for the 600k dead has said that he should have pushed masks from the beginning. So my point is; had Trump pushed masks from the beginning, he would have been going against what Fauci was saying, and most people would have told him to fuck off with his mask mandates. Everyone that was already convinced he wanted to be a dictator would have had a field day with him trying to force everyone to wear face masks while Dr. Fauci was telling us we didn't need to. Thus proving my point that no matter who was in charge at the very beginning of this whole thing; it was never going to go well in America because of how passionate we all are about who we want to listen to. 

The funny thing is; none of my posts on this topic have been controversial. I've never dogged the left or the right. I've just stated that the polarization of this country was always going to prevent us from handling this pandemic as well as some other countries. The fact that I've gotten pushback on that idea is actually doing nothing but further proving my point. 

This is so disingenuous, but I'm going to continue to engage anyway. If Trump issued a mask mandate in March when absolutely no masks were available, then I wouldn't have complied because it would have been impossible. If Trump had used his powers to ensure adequate supplies of masks early on, (1) Faucci would have had no reason to tell the public not to wear them, and (2) I would have definitely worn them. I didn't fucking leave my house from basically March 15 to the end of May 2020 anyway. Why on earth would you assume that myself and others similarly situation would have had an issue with wearing masks? Literally you're creating a hypothetical, and a hypothetical response to that hypothetical, that completely ignores what actually happened.

Here is where you are getting confused. You think that because people like yourself see the world only through the lens of Democrat policies, bad, Republican policies, good, that everyone else sees the world the same. It just isn't the case. As an example, Trump did a few decent things, for instance picking a very good administrator for NASA.  If Trump had been a competent leader during this crisis, I would have given him credit. I wouldn't have liked him. But I would have given him credit. But that didn't happen because not only did he fail at being a competent leader, he actively interfered with others who were trying to help. 

[Dahobbs 17,534]

2 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

... and being open to other ideas that go against what you may have believed to be true

Yes? And? Your point? Isn't that what I said? 

[babysdaddy 2,721]

21 hours ago, Captainant said:

lol @Cheeseweasel is such a fucking snowflake. He blocked me for calling him "Fuckweasel" because calling people mean names hurts his fee-fees

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you get someone banned, at least temporarily, for calling you 'captainantifa'? 

[Horn Dogg 3,895]

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

This is so disingenuous, but I'm going to continue to engage anyway. If Trump issued a mask mandate in March when absolutely no masks were available, then I wouldn't have complied because it would have been impossible. If Trump had used his powers to ensure adequate supplies of masks early on, (1) Faucci would have had no reason to tell the public not to wear them, and (2) I would have definitely worn them. I didn't fucking leave my house from basically March 15 to the end of May 2020 anyway. Why on earth would you assume that myself and others similarly situation would have had an issue with wearing masks? Literally you're creating a hypothetical, and a hypothetical response to that hypothetical, that completely ignores what actually happened.

Here is where you are getting confused. You think that because people like yourself see the world only through the lens of Democrat policies, bad, Republican policies, good, that everyone else sees the world the same. It just isn't the case. As an example, Trump did a few decent things, for instance picking a very good administrator for NASA.  If Trump had been a competent leader during this crisis, I would have given him credit. I wouldn't have liked him. But I would have given him credit. But that didn't happen because not only did he fail at being a competent leader, he actively interfered with others who were trying to help. 

So in other words, Trump was/is a dumb motherfucker.  I’m so glad that asshole is out of office!

[Captainant 27,656]

9 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you get someone banned, at least temporarily, for calling you 'captainantifa'? 

I reported them for political shitposting in a """no politics""" thread, yes. I get called all sorts of repetitive and unimaginative names by the brain trust gang but I'm not blocking people for it, and haven't reported people for namecalling.

IIRC, that instance was in the wake of the trump/barr administration opening fire on peaceful protesters on Lafayette Square on June 1 and the usual suspects were already claiming that ANTIFA and BLM were really trying to burn down a church, so I should shut up because I'm antifa. Or something like that? Idk man, it's been a hell of a year between the authoritarian crushing of dissent, the insurrection, and the pandemic and it blends together.

All while there's a large contingent of surlyites who both refuse to acknowledge that those events are happening or did happen, and that in FACT, it's the other side or #bothsides who are really the problem.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Captainant

[TexasPride10 576]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

This is so disingenuous, but I'm going to continue to engage anyway. If Trump issued a mask mandate in March when absolutely no masks were available, then I wouldn't have complied because it would have been impossible. If Trump had used his powers to ensure adequate supplies of masks early on, (1) Faucci would have had no reason to tell the public not to wear them, and (2) I would have definitely worn them. I didn't fucking leave my house from basically March 15 to the end of May 2020 anyway. Why on earth would you assume that myself and others similarly situation would have had an issue with wearing masks? Literally you're creating a hypothetical, and a hypothetical response to that hypothetical, that completely ignores what actually happened.

Here is where you are getting confused. You think that because people like yourself see the world only through the lens of Democrat policies, bad, Republican policies, good, that everyone else sees the world the same. It just isn't the case. As an example, Trump did a few decent things, for instance picking a very good administrator for NASA.  If Trump had been a competent leader during this crisis, I would have given him credit. I wouldn't have liked him. But I would have given him credit. But that didn't happen because not only did he fail at being a competent leader, he actively interfered with others who were trying to help. 

This is an extremely rational and reasonable response. I think you and I would get along just fine in real life, because we appear to think the same way. I'm also capable of seeing the good and the bad on both sides of the aisle. I've just been playing Devil's advocate in this one conversation. The problem is; the majority of our country don't think that way. Too many people see everything as Left=good, Right=bad or vice versa. Just because a few of us would have been able to approach this thing rationally regardless of who the president was, doesn't mean the vast majority of the country would have. 

[wildcat09 29,349]

Just now, TexasPride10 said:

This is an extremely rational and reasonable response. I think you and I would get along just fine in real life, because we appear to think the same way. I'm also capable of seeing the good and the bad on both sides of the aisle. I've just been playing Devil's advocate in this one conversation. The problem is; the majority of our country don't think that way. Too many people see everything as Left=good, Right=bad or vice versa. Just because a few of us would have been able to approach this thing rationally regardless of who the president was, doesn't mean the vast majority of the country would have. 

Most people who consider themselves real logical guys aren't actually even remotely close to how they perceive themselves. Even saying there's one "rational" response to something as big as questions about how the government and private enterprise should respond to a pandemic, while appealing in some respects, is probably so simplistic that it's just wrong. 

However, while the field of political neuroscience is still young, we do know that liberals and conservatives literally have different brains. I don't want to delve into this too much because it's still a new field and I don't really know much about it, but we know enough now to know that a liberal's brain reacts to things differently than a conservative's brain does. We're not just two warring tribes with the same intensity of commitment to different versions of the same things. 

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2,073]

Props to China.  Took us 9+ years to get Osama after 9/11.  Nine years after Kony 2012 becomes the hit trending video in the US, China runs out of patience and says I got this. 

[Biff Tannen 45,676]

Lol, you dipshits pissed off the Bobs.

[jimmyjazz 45,903]

1 hour ago, TexasPride10 said:

I'm also capable of seeing the good and the bad on both sides of the aisle. I've just been playing Devil's advocate in this one conversation. The problem is; the majority of our country don't think that way. Too many people see everything as Left=good, Right=bad or vice versa. Just because a few of us would have been able to approach this thing rationally regardless of who the president was, doesn't mean the vast majority of the country would have. 

I don't think you've been playing Devil's advocate.  I think you're a Trump supporter who is trying to look like he's playing Devil's advocate.

Others have already addressed your bullshit post in response to a post of mine, so I won't reiterate all their points.  I will say this (again):  POTUS should listen to his top advisers, especially in areas in which he lacks expertise.  Fauci was Trump's adviser in this case.  The right thing to do would have been to work with Fauci and other medical and scientific experts to craft the initial response and figure out how to simplify the message for the American public.  That didn't happen.  Trump always thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, when he almost never is, and he loves to wing it.  Ultimately, he contradicted and undermined Fauci, Birx et al multiple times.  It was a horrible job of messaging one of the most important public policies in years.

I don't think for a moment Fauci misunderstood the science regarding masks as it existed in February 2020.  I think he thought (and correctly so) that we needed to get N95 masks and other PPE to front line medical personnel, and he said as much when he implored the American people not to horde masks.  Ultimately, he remained pretty much on point with CDC guidance throughout the pandemic.  You know, like a good scientist should.

Edited May 27, 2021 by jimmyjazz

[GRHorn 105]

 

[Dahobbs 17,534]

11 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

 

Sounds good. 

[SmokeyTheBear 5,562]

An actual reasonable response. Thanks GR for the constant reminders of the competency of this administration. Especially compared to the last. 

[Brisketexan 105,097]

5 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

An actual reasonable response. Thanks GR for the constant reminders of the competency of this administration. Especially compared to the last. 

This.  The fact that this was posted as some sort of implied criticism reveals so fucking much about the fucking toxic cocktail of idiocy and insanity the poster is serving up.