Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

Update/correction
5:30 this evening. DeWine has only done one of these addresses previously and that was when he shut it down back in March.
 

Ended up a strongly worded letter implying wear mask or we will shut it down plus pleas to not gather over Thanksgiving. 

All businesses must make sure both employees and customers are wearing a mask. 2nd violation is a 24 hour closing of your business.

[alincoln 2364]

8 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

Ended up a strongly worded letter implying wear mask or we will shut it down plus pleas to not gather over Thanksgiving. 

All businesses must make sure both employees and customers are wearing a mask. 2nd violation is a 24 hour closing of your business.

He also said that he will revisit in a week and shut down restaurants, bars and gyms if numbers don't turn around.  Numbers aren't going to turn around so expect closures next week.

[Paper_jam 828]

3 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Do you know how evenly distributed that 7767/day is?  Just curious if most COD are time of year/season independent. 

The chart at this link shows deaths in the USA over the last several years. There is a definite seasonal trend; in the summertime it looks like the average weekly death rate is very roughly 51,000. In the winter it increases to very roughly 60,000. (That's looking at the pre-COVID years---you can clearly see that the numbers are worse after COVID.)

https://public.tableau.com/views/COVID_excess_mort_withcauses_11042020/WeeklyExcessDeaths?:embed=y&:jsdebug=y&:toolbar=n&:tabs=n&:display_count=n&:origin=viz_share_link

 

[Stannis 232]

4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Hospitals are filling up and turning people away, even outside of El Paso, but it looks like the staffing seems like it could be a bigger problem.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/11/health/hospital-staff-shortages-covid-19/index.html

El Paso’s medical folks are really stretched thin.   

There are three things I thought should happen at the beginning of the pandemic, particularly when we began to understand the correlation between obesity and COVID mortality:

1. Constant, widespread public messaging from elected officials and bureaucrats about the importance of losing weight, eating right, getting regular exercise, and living a healthy lifestyle.

2. Drafting 25,000 young Americans to serve 18 month obligations in the Armed Forces for the specific purpose of shoring up overrun medical systems.  They could be provided basic medical training - how to operate a ventilator, draw blood, give shots, administer medications, etc. - and supplement scarce personnel resources in hot spots as needed.

3. Build extra hospital capacity in the 100 largest American communities.

I've seen practically nothing on No. 1, which infuriates me, as it is virtually free and is the one thing more than anything else people can individually control.  I've heard no one in any position of power ever propose No. 2.  As to No. 3, some communities built temporary facilities.  Some, like Houston's never were used.  But now that we are seeing hospital capacity dry up in multiple hot spots around the country, and the number of trained medical technicians prove to be inadequate, Nos. 2 and 3 could have been making an impact at precisely this moment.

[GreenspointTexas 9559]

Almost 143,000 new cases today, a new record that breaks yesterdays record that broke the day before yesterdays record that broke fridays record

[Deej 76542]

28 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Almost 143,000 new cases today, a new record that breaks yesterdays record that broke the day before yesterdays record that broke fridays record

[Guest Lobo]

Stop the count of all the tests!  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

22 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Nyc going back into lockdown

Not really.  Things need to close by 10 PM every day, but nothing has been rolled back.  No inside gatherings of greater than 10 people in private homes.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

19 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

No inside gatherings of greater than 10 people in private homes.

I can't think of 10 people I want in my home, so I'm good.

[XYZ 2154]

15 hours ago, Stannis said:

I've seen practically nothing on No. 1, which infuriates me, as it is virtually free and is the one thing more than anything else people can individually control.

But it’s not “free”. If America started eating better and being healthier, it would cost some industries a lot of money, and we can’t have that. Remember, what’s best for corporate America is best for America.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

19 hours ago, alincoln said:

He also said that he will revisit in a week and shut down restaurants, bars and gyms if numbers don't turn around.  Numbers aren't going to turn around so expect closures next week.

I was thinking he trying to get to the Thanksgiving break so the shutdown lasts until all the transmissions in holiday spreading events show up.

[Don Johnson 4745]

 

[InkaUtexas 25496]

More cruise fuck ups. 

A passenger aboard the first cruise ship to set sail in the Caribbean since the start of the pandemic has tested positive for coronavirus, according to a reporter traveling on the ship.

Gene Sloan, a cruise writer for The Points Guy, said in a post on Wednesday that the captain of the SeaDream 1 made a shipwide announcement alerting guests to the positive case and asked that everyone return to their rooms.

The passenger tested positive on a "preliminary basis," according to Sloan. It's not clear what "preliminary" means.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/passenger-tests-positive-coronavirus-first-cruise-ship-sail-caribbean-pandemic-n1247552

[Captainant 27442]

14 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

More cruise fuck ups. 

A passenger aboard the first cruise ship to set sail in the Caribbean since the start of the pandemic has tested positive for coronavirus, according to a reporter traveling on the ship.

Gene Sloan, a cruise writer for The Points Guy, said in a post on Wednesday that the captain of the SeaDream 1 made a shipwide announcement alerting guests to the positive case and asked that everyone return to their rooms.

The passenger tested positive on a "preliminary basis," according to Sloan. It's not clear what "preliminary" means.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/passenger-tests-positive-coronavirus-first-cruise-ship-sail-caribbean-pandemic-n1247552

Anyone voluntarily getting onto a cruise ship should expect to get COVID. What the fuck are they thinking?

[BabaYaga 15208]

18 hours ago, Stannis said:

I've seen practically nothing on No. 1, which infuriates me, as it is virtually free and is the one thing more than anything else people can individually control.  I've heard no one in any position of power ever propose No. 2.  As to No. 3, some communities built temporary facilities.  Some, like Houston's never were used.  But now that we are seeing hospital capacity dry up in multiple hot spots around the country, and the number of trained medical technicians prove to be inadequate, Nos. 2 and 3 could have been making an impact at precisely this moment.

I've been beating this fucking drum for months now.  There are fairly clear vector now for transmission and rapid decline.  Physical health and age being two of the most prominent.  Risk factors need to be addressed, not just this aggrege case count that everyone likes to keep trotting out.  Demographics and the most at-risk groups need to be identified and isolated.  Other, less.  

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

18 hours ago, Stannis said:

There are three things I thought should happen at the beginning of the pandemic, particularly when we began to understand the correlation between obesity and COVID mortality:

1. Constant, widespread public messaging from elected officials and bureaucrats about the importance of losing weight, eating right, getting regular exercise, and living a healthy lifestyle.

2. Drafting 25,000 young Americans to serve 18 month obligations in the Armed Forces for the specific purpose of shoring up overrun medical systems.  They could be provided basic medical training - how to operate a ventilator, draw blood, give shots, administer medications, etc. - and supplement scarce personnel resources in hot spots as needed.

3. Build extra hospital capacity in the 100 largest American communities.

I've seen practically nothing on No. 1, which infuriates me, as it is virtually free and is the one thing more than anything else people can individually control.  I've heard no one in any position of power ever propose No. 2.  As to No. 3, some communities built temporary facilities.  Some, like Houston's never were used.  But now that we are seeing hospital capacity dry up in multiple hot spots around the country, and the number of trained medical technicians prove to be inadequate, Nos. 2 and 3 could have been making an impact at precisely this moment.

Re #2 - "Drafting" doesn't get traction. Especially when tying it to the Armed Forces. You tell parents their kids are being drafted into the Armed Forces and you better grab your ass with both hands. Nothing else will be heard.

Maybe something like tying it to student loan debt forgiveness.

 

[Pato del Muerto 52338]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

I've been beating this fucking drum for months now.  There are fairly clear vector now for transmission and rapid decline.  Physical health and age being two of the most prominent.  Risk factors need to be addressed, not just this aggrege case count that everyone likes to keep trotting out.  Demographics and the most at-risk groups need to be identified and isolated.  Other, less.  

Your plan is to isolate about half the country?  You take 70+ year olds plus 35+ BMI plus asthmatics plus immune compromised plus high BP plus respiratory issues plus whatever else and you get a pretty big chunk of Americans. 

[BabaYaga 15208]

17 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Your plan is to isolate about half the country?  You take 70+ year olds plus 35+ BMI plus asthmatics plus immune compromised plus high BP plus respiratory issues plus whatever else and you get a pretty big chunk of Americans. 

As opposed to isolating the entire country?  All I'm saying is take a more focused, nuanced approach that incorporates a significant directive in personal heath, diet, and exercise.  Picked up a few things at the store today.  This giant, fat fuck that had to be in his 30's was wheeling his ass via the electric scooter through the store with his mask on.  I'm sorry, but at that age, this dude is not long for this world - virus or not.  If we spent a fraction of national attention on obesity that we spend on masks.....imagine the results.  

[BradInATX 9208]

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

As opposed to isolating the entire country?  All I'm saying is take a more focused, nuanced approach that incorporates a significant directive in personal heath, diet, and exercise.  Picked up a few things at the store today.  This giant, fat fuck that had to be in his 30's was wheeling his ass via the electric scooter through the store with his mask on.  I'm sorry, but at that age, this dude is not long for this world - virus or not.  If we spent a fraction of national attention on obesity that we spend on masks.....imagine the results.  

 

You can make the health/obesity point, which is a good one, without throwing that pinch of anti-masker in at the end. It makes an otherwise solid post seem kinda stupid. It's not an either/or.

Edited November 12, 2020 by BradInATX

[MoJames 8241]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

If we spent a fraction of national attention on obesity that we spend on masks.....imagine the results.  

A bunch of pissed off fat people and this guy...

[BabaYaga 15208]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

 

You can make the health/obesity point, which is a good one, without throwing that pinch of anti-masker in at the end. It makes an otherwise solid post seem kinda stupid. It's not an either/or.

Never said it was.  The point about the mask was that he'll wear that all day.  Get him to stop shoving Big Macs down his throat with oceans of soda....do, can't have that.  He'll wear a mask..."do his part".....yet at such a young age be so fucking fat he is riding an electric scooter in the grocery store and there is not a peep from anyone.  No media outlet, no publication, nothing addresses these obvious correlating risk factors.  

[BradInATX 9208]

11 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Never said it was.  The point about the mask was that he'll wear that all day.  Get him to stop shoving Big Macs down his throat with oceans of soda....do, can't have that.  He'll wear a mask..."do his part".....yet at such a young age be so fucking fat he is riding an electric scooter in the grocery store and there is not a peep from anyone.  No media outlet, no publication, nothing addresses these obvious correlating risk factors.  

 

Yeah, I agree. I don't think the media will ever be the place for that to happen, as nobody turns on the TV to be confronted with their own shortcomings. A push for awareness and public health would probably have to come from the government, which is a CR discussion more than likely.

[staboner 4957]

what? getting on a cruise ship? how fucking dumb and unimaginative can you be. wow

[BabaYaga 15208]

Just now, BradInATX said:

 

Yeah, I agree. I don't think the media will ever be the place for that to happen, as nobody turns on the TV to be confronted with their own shortcomings. A push for awareness and public health would probably have to come from the government, which is a CR discussion more than likely.

We don't need a 'push for fitness', ala Jane Fonda - we need a very candid and clinical discussion on the correlations between the physical efficacy of the victims recovery and the impact the virus has on the host.  Total case counts are fine, but break them down by age and region.  Show recovery rates and hospitalization rates by comorbidity factors.  If this virus was brutally effective in sending those type A blood to the hospital, wouldn't that be discussed?  Every person in the US would have their blood type tested and re-tested to validate.  So why not weight, age, and overall fitness such as BMI and other underlying health risk factors?

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

We don't need a 'push for fitness', ala Jane Fonda - we need a very candid and clinical discussion on the correlations between the physical efficacy of the victims recovery and the impact the virus has on the host.  Total case counts are fine, but break them down by age and region.  Show recovery rates and hospitalization rates by comorbidity factors.  If this virus was brutally effective in sending those type A blood to the hospital, wouldn't that be discussed?  Every person in the US would have their blood type tested and re-tested to validate.  So why not weight, age, and overall fitness such as BMI and other underlying health risk factors?

 

What's the end game? Force everyone to go get their BMI tested?

[Pato del Muerto 52338]

28 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

As opposed to isolating the entire country?  All I'm saying is take a more focused, nuanced approach that incorporates a significant directive in personal heath, diet, and exercise.  Picked up a few things at the store today.  This giant, fat fuck that had to be in his 30's was wheeling his ass via the electric scooter through the store with his mask on.  I'm sorry, but at that age, this dude is not long for this world - virus or not.  If we spent a fraction of national attention on obesity that we spend on masks.....imagine the results.  

So your goal is to make unhealthy people healthy in the next week or month?

for future outbreaks, good idea. For this one, waste of effort. 
 

and I’d submit to you that shutting down half the people is shutting down the country.  How many teachers, drivers, and other actually essential workers would be out and what domino effect would it have with school closings, public transport shutdowns, goods travel, and other issues?

 

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

So your goal is to make unhealthy people healthy in the next week or month?

for future outbreaks, good idea. For this one, waste of effort. 
 

and I’d submit to you that shutting down half the people is shutting down the country.  How many teachers, drivers, and other actually essential workers would be out and what domino effect would it have with school closings, public transport shutdowns, goods travel, and other issues?

 

It seems like Baba is on a wandering path back to the "make the fats and olds stay home while the rest of us go on as normal" point that many have made vs. seeking a real solution, imo.

Edited November 12, 2020 by BradInATX

[BabaYaga 15208]

9 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

What's the end game? Force everyone to go get their BMI tested?

End game?  Besides a healthier population?  BMI was just an example.  

[BabaYaga 15208]

9 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

a real solution,

Which is?

[BradInATX 9208]

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Which is?

There's not really a "solution" and it all really needs to happen on a local level. But real and true contact tracing, mask mandates, and better separation and classification of businesses when determining shutdown or occupancy restrictions. An example being outdoor vs. indoor; a bar like Moontower should be treated completely differently than Deep Eddy Cabaret. Jester King is not the same as Casino El Camino; the former should be 100% open for business and the latter should be closed completely. 

Outside of that it mostly looks like what we're doing now without a disdain for masks and precautions coming from various levels of government, as that has undoubtedly caused more spread than necessary. Bars, Churches, Gyms, and other non-essential indoor businesses (bowling alleys, theaters) would get shut down ASAP once cases start to rise above the "very low" risk Covid stage by region. 

None of this looks extremely different than what's happening in pockets, it just requires discipline and leadership not showing open disdain for mitigation efforts. And it requires a coherent, competent plan.

But it's too late for all of that. The cat is out of the bag. Half the country thinks that the whole thing is a hoax and that's not going to change. So.. shrug. It is what it is. We'll putter along periodically shutting down certain areas as they again test our hospital capacity. A lot of people will die between now and a vaccine rollout. Thankfully that's looking to be not too far away.

Edited November 12, 2020 by BradInATX

[Brisketexan 104557]

So, as we face a significant and nationwide resurgence, which is already ugly as hell in many places and is only getting uglier, AND that resurgence is going to take a big dump all over the holidays, I have a hypothesis/hope:

Enough people are going to be shellshocked by how bad this fucker is, and how it is NOT just going to "magically disappear," that the resistance to taking the vaccine will dwindle significantly.  Hell, I had two separate conversations with people today where they said "I'm sick of this shit -- I'll be the first person lined up when it's available."  The cold hard truth is staring us in the face -- if we want to have any shot at getting a semblance of normal life back in the next year, it's going to take widespread vaccination.

Maybe the silver lining of the current shitstorm is that.  I dunno.  Probably stupid to even think of a silver lining.  We just have different layers of shit, no silver.

[BabaYaga 15208]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

There's not really a "solution" and it all really needs to happen on a local level. But real and true contact tracing, mask mandates, and better separation and classification of businesses when determining shutdown or occupancy restrictions. An example being outdoor vs. indoor; a bar like Moontower should be treated completely differently than Deep Eddy Cabaret. Jester King is not the same as Casino El Camino; the former should be 100% open for business and the latter should be closed completely. 

Outside of that it mostly looks like what we're doing now without a disdain for masks and precautions coming from various levels of government, as that has undoubtedly caused more spread than necessary. Bars, Churches, Gyms, and other non-essential indoor businesses (bowling alleys, theaters) would get shut down ASAP once cases start to rise above the "very low" risk Covid stage by region. 

None of this looks extremely different than what's happening in pockets, it just requires discipline and leadership not showing open disdain for mitigation efforts. And it requires a coherent, competent plan.

But it's too late for all of that. The cat is out of the bag. Half the country thinks that the whole thing is a hoax and that's not going to change. So.. shrug. It is what it is. We'll putter along periodically shutting down certain areas as they again test our hospital capacity until we get a vaccine. Thankfully that's looking to be not too far away.

Fine.  Do all this.  Also incorporate a level of specificity on risk factors and the underlying health conditions that are leading to so many deaths.  If I am aged 35-40, with a BMI @ 35, and I see that upon contracting this, my potential for catastrophic event unfolding are x4 (example) someone with the same age and a BMI of 20....you bet your ass I'm making changes.  These are not mutually exclusive 

[XYZ 2154]

There are people that don’t want a covid vaccine?

[BabaYaga 15208]

Just now, XYZ said:

There are people that don’t want a covid vaccine?

No, there are people that are anti-vac in general at one end of the spectrum, and then a whole sub-set that want to see more testing, are scared to be the first to take it, etc.  

[MoJames 8241]

6 minutes ago, XYZ said:

There are people that don’t want a covid vaccine?

 

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

No, there are people that are anti-vac in general at one end of the spectrum, and then a whole sub-set that want to see more testing, are scared to be the first to take it, etc.  

Both. People are fucking stupid.

I had a discussion with a patient 2 weeks ago that told me she wouldn't take the vaccine secondary to the feces content.

Yesterday I had a conversation with a patient who didn't want to have the tracking device.

People are fucking stupid.

[Brisketexan 104557]

26 minutes ago, XYZ said:

There are people that don’t want a covid vaccine?

Yep, because....

15 minutes ago, MoJames said:

 

Both. People are fucking stupid.

I had a discussion with a patient 2 weeks ago that told me she wouldn't take the vaccine secondary to the feces content.

Yesterday I had a conversation with a patient who didn't want to have the tracking device.

People are fucking stupid.

These.

The fact that we are the dominant species on this planet proves that the entire concept of life on earth is an elaborate joke.

[GopherRock 1765]

58 minutes ago, XYZ said:

There are people that don’t want a covid vaccine?

Chiropractors. 

I, unfortunately, know one such person who "practices" in the Metroplex. 

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

 

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

No, there are people that are anti-vac in general at one end of the spectrum, and then a whole sub-set that want to see more testing, are scared to be the first to take it, etc.  

I don't think it's stupid to be a bit apprehensive about the potential risk of a vaccine that is less than a year old rapidly moving to (hopefully) near-worldwide use.  Especially considering that the risk associated with that vaccine would be rendered mostly unnecessary with a few small societal changes - such as if people could just stop doing whatever the fuck they want for 30 days or so.

I mean, the risk may be small but it's far bigger than the risk associated with simply avoiding bars, brunch, and cruise ships for a month.

Doesn't mean I won't get the vaccine, but there's a little bit of me that's pissed that I have to do it simply because Bob's son had to go to Padre for Spring Break.

[atomheartbevo 89407]

2 hours ago, MoJames said:

A bunch of pissed off fat people and this guy...

You know that he's an aggy right, like he has a Texum A & M degree on the wall in his office.

That could not have been a random thing.

[atomheartbevo 89407]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Enough people are going to be shellshocked by how bad this fucker is, and how it is NOT just going to "magically disappear," that the resistance to taking the vaccine will dwindle significantly. 

I think we are getting close to that.  We joke about the two weeks thing, but all the trends are that this is going to be a shitstorm over Thanksgiving.

El Paso is having to ship patients to New Mexico and San Antonio.  What if San Antonio is actually picking up speed, and then Austin has to take some of their patients, just as we are increasing hospitalizations.  

It's the whole "not overwhelming the hospitals" scenario, only it's happening right now in mostly remote areas (Utah, Idaho, El Paso), but we have an election that is sucking up 75% of the media's time.  There is concern about Ohio, Michigan and Oklahoma having their hospitals overwhelmed as well.

There's almost 62,000 covid hospitalizations in the US right now, more than double what we had in September, and more than we had in the Spring and Summer surges.  Shit's getting really real.

Edited November 13, 2020 by atomheartbevo

[Continental Op 3934]

3 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Your plan is to isolate about half the country?  You take 70+ year olds plus 35+ BMI plus asthmatics plus immune compromised plus high BP plus respiratory issues plus whatever else and you get a pretty big chunk of Americans. 

We should tell all the fat people to stay inside and then forget to tell them when COVID is over.

[Royalfan5 2348]

 The Lincoln and Omaha hospitals have flat out said they can’t take anymore transfers from the rural areas either.

[atomheartbevo 89407]

The Eighth Court of Appeals just gave the State of Texas a win in their fight against El Paso's shutdown order, and have temporarily halted the El Paso County Judge's orders.

So yeah, buckle buckaroos, Austin, Dallas, and Houston are going to have to start taking in EP covid patients pretty soon.  I doubt San Antonio is going to want to take too many more in.

 

[Anastasis 23393]

37 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

I don't think it's stupid to be a bit apprehensive about the potential risk of a vaccine that is less than a year old rapidly moving to (hopefully) near-worldwide use. 

Let's be honest.  The individual risk/benefit analysis for many vaccines in the schedule is kinda upside down.  It really only makes sense from a public health perspective, or if you are in high risk segments.  This is fucking different. This is a global fucking pandemic. It is crippling our economy and having profound impact on quality of life. We'll have reasonable short-term safety data when it rolls out.  Shit might get kinda dicey with the mid and definitely longer term rare side effects.  There will be lots of anecdotal reports of bad side effects, some probably serious...just a numbers game when you are looking to vax 300+ MM people. Bad shit gonna happen to a very small number of people.  At this point staring down the barrel of 250k deaths by end of the week, not sure that I see another path forward.  Put the surveillance network in place to signal first sign of safety issues.

 

I agree your post.  We would be well past this shit if people would put selfish pride behind them.  Good luck with that, though.  I prefer the odds associated with an accelerate vax roll out at this point. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Anastasis

[Captainant 27442]

25 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

There's almost 62,000 covid hospitalizations in the US right now, more than double what we had in September, and more than we had in the Spring and Summer surges.  Shit's getting really rea

BoDiEs In TrEeS!!! [/cheeseweasel]

[Message Board User 12389]

56 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

We would be well past this shit if people would put selfish pride behind them. 

Speaking of selfish...

 

[GreenspointTexas 9559]

New covid record for the 5th day in a row. Almost 163,000 cases. Beat yesterdays record by almost 15%

[Hefeweizen 5307]

So.... ballgame?

I had 4 people at my office test positive this week.  We're circling the drain.  I think we're about to send everyone home again.  

Thanks jackasses who can't wear masks, stay out of bars, or avoid partying.

 

But but but it's the flu!

[utee94 15745]

2 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

So.... ballgame?

I had 4 people at my office test positive this week.  We're circling the drain.  I think we're about to send everyone home again.  

Thanks jackasses who can't wear masks, stay out of bars, or avoid partying.

 

But but but it's the flu!

Sorry for partying.

[BradInATX 9208]

She's going to win because her opponents are too scared to expose her. Lulz.