Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[52-80 19086]

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

Slow your self-victimization roll there, sweetheart. Nobody called him a facist. Many people, including me, don't think confidently wrong summaraization of studies should go unchallenged.

You and BradatHRBlock sound like real crusaders.  Atta boy.

[Poe It Up 126]

9 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Mask use talk not going away. I lived in the Middle East during SARS and MERS. No one had a problem wearing a mask in the big cities or when traveling.

Is it that hard to put on a mask when you go out? If it saves .00001 it is worth it. Even if all of those who are going to die are Aggy or OU fans I will still wear mine. 

 

Yes, apparently it is. Americans lack basic humility, but the large number of infections in the coming months will probably help them come around. Of course, that means we all get proper fucked in the meantime.

[Don Johnson 4745]

12 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Mask use talk not going away. I lived in the Middle East during SARS and MERS. No one had a problem wearing a mask in the big cities or when traveling.

Is it that hard to put on a mask when you go out? If it saves .00001 it is worth it. Even if all of those who are going to die are Aggy or OU fans I will still wear mine. 

I wear a mask.  I have no real problem wearing a mask.  Seems like the appropriate thing to do.  

I do take issue with your bolded sentence though, because that attitude could be used in the future for things beyond Covid.  I didn't wear one before this and don't plan on wearing one after this is under control.  But if we all wore masks indefinitely, there's no doubt we would save more than ".00001" in non CV-19 deaths by doing so. 

There is such a thing as an acceptable death rate for certain freedoms and activities.  We all agreed with that prior to Match 2020.  What the acceptable death rate is, I don't know.  Its clearly lower than what CV-19 has brought us, but its sure as hell higher than .00001.  

[BradInATX 9208]

30 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

BradatHRBlock

[DDD Dad 14251]

18 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Dude. Ignore the troll.

[MoJames 8241]

Welp looks like Colorado is running out of ICU/Hospital beds, back to Telemed.

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

On mask mandates- Montana has had one in place since the summer, and they aren’t doing too great right now relative to population. But I was in Billings a couple of times and Bozeman once for baseball tournaments and a “big city” shopping trip, and every business I went into had unmasked people to the ratio of about 1:4. Gas stations, hotels, sporting goods store, a hobby lobby, mall stores. And no enforcement.

I’m not sure how many people will wear a mask during a mandate that otherwise would choose not to. 
 

same thing with any businesses here that mandated masks for their customers. 20% or so just ignore it, and dare people to confront them. 
 

so...if there’s an efficacy threshold and it’s 70% or higher, we are not meeting it. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Pato del Muerto

[Captainant 27447]

3 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

so...if there’s an efficacy threshold and it’s 70% or higher, we are not meeting it. 

it's not so much that there's a line where anything less than isn't worth doing, as it's where it becomes significantly more effective. Even partial measures and partial compliance makes an impact on the R0 of an infected person. I posted this video months back, but it's a data scientist's visualization and explanation of the phenonium through modeling the behavior in models with many agents in them. Granted, he's not an epidemiologist, but it's a useful tool for better understanding how community spread occurs, and what different levels of mitigation does.

 

[Newdoc 3433]

42 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

so...if there’s an efficacy threshold and it’s 70% or higher, we are not meeting it. 

BUT there comes a point where partial herd immunity can significantly slow the spread. This will start to happen at some point when a bunch of us get infected and recover and/or get immunized. Anything that brings the Rt number down is good. I just don't know what exactly it will take to get it below 1 for a majority of the country.

[Newdoc 3433]

And I also have a concern about Fauci and a few others telling us that we will be a long time in masks and with continued social distancing measures. We are already seeing a lot of cracks in prevention due to pandemic fatigue and I'm afraid that the public will become increasingly resistant to taking a new vaccine when you basically tell then nothing will change in 2021 either.   Although mask are an easy measure, the thought of living life as now for another 13 months is going to make a lot of people despondent. 

[Brisketexan 104595]

1 minute ago, Newdoc said:

And I also have a concern about Fauci and a few others telling us that we will be a long time in masks and with continued social distancing measures. We are already seeing a lot of cracks in prevention due to pandemic fatigue and I'm afraid that the public will become increasingly resistant to taking a new vaccine when you basically tell then nothing will change in 2021 either.   Although mask are an easy measure, the thought of living life as now for another 13 months is going to make a lot of people despondent. 

I share that concern.  Psychologically, it's important for people to see an end-point that we can reach.  Shit, it's relevant in actual life planning and business planning.  That messaging needs to be careful not to send a message of "even after a vaccine, nothing will change."  I know that's NOT the message -- I've read and listened to much more than those headlines -- but a lot of people might not.

[Don Johnson 4745]

2 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

And I also have a concern about Fauci and a few others telling us that we will be a long time in masks and with continued social distancing measures. We are already seeing a lot of cracks in prevention due to pandemic fatigue and I'm afraid that the public will become increasingly resistant to taking a new vaccine when you basically tell then nothing will change in 2021 either.   Although mask are an easy measure, the thought of living life as now for another 13 months is going to make a lot of people despondent. 

I at least appreciate the honesty instead of 3 more weeks, then another 3 week, then 3 weeks until it adds up to 13 months. 

[Armybrat 40734]

Well, if the bars in Austin are shut down for 6 or 7 months, then maybe the legislature will get something done for a change.

[dcar00 14035]

10 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Well, if the bars in Austin are shut down for 6 or 7 months, then maybe the legislature will get something done for a change.

the bars are where they cook up all of their hairbrained idiocy.   If closing bars means they can't come up with stupid shit to spend money on, I'm good with them not doing anything 

Edited November 19, 2020 by dcar00

[Armybrat 40734]

That is what I was suggesting.

[Surly Bevo 24696]

2 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Mask use talk not going away. I lived in the Middle East during SARS and MERS. No one had a problem wearing a mask in the big cities or when traveling.

Is it that hard to put on a mask when you go out? If it saves .00001 it is worth it. Even if all of those who are going to die are Aggy or OU fans I will still wear mine. 

 

I get the spirit as somebody who fully supports masks and doesn't understand what the big deal is in the midst of a global pandemic.  BUT that last statement is fucking dumb.  First off personally I feel like that masks probably make a much bigger difference than what you state BUT assume they do....you just walked into "masks forever" territory, because basically pretty sure we could all wear masks forever and save .00001 from any respiratory illness, Covid19 or otherwise but you and I know that's a non-starter and when you say shit like that you just walk right into the trap.

Stick to facts, avoid hyperbole....don't give the dumbshits more ammo.  

That is all. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Surly Bevo

[dcar00 14035]

34 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

That is what I was suggesting.

yeah.  I guess I should have been more clear that the hairbrained idiocy doesn't stop at the bars edge.   its worse there no doubt.  i'm more on the side of I don't want them doing anything at all, ever.

[elguapo 4583]

cOvId dEaThS aRe bEiNg oVeRrEpOrTeD!!!1!

[Kyle 207]

Study released on efficacy of masks (actual study): https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

Results: A total of 3030 participants were randomly assigned to the recommendation to wear masks, and 2994 were assigned to control; 4862 completed the study. Infection with SARS-CoV-2 occurred in 42 participants recommended masks (1.8%) and 53 control participants (2.1%). The between-group difference was −0.3 percentage point (95% CI, −1.2 to 0.4 percentage point;  P = 0.38) (odds ratio, 0.82 [CI, 0.54 to 1.23]; P = 0.33). Multiple imputation accounting for loss to follow-up yielded similar results. Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection.

[Armybrat 40734]

21 minutes ago, elguapo said:

cOvId dEaThS aRe bEiNg oVeRrEpOrTeD!!!1!

Karen Blablablah the internet factchecker/researcher/influencer said so! 

[Deej 76560]

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

Well, if the bars in Austin are shut down for 6 or 7 months, then maybe the legislature will get something done for a change.

Less likely their interns will be mowing down Tarrytown joggers with their cars. 

[Trey3216 15325]

3 hours ago, sidis said:

so i read this yesterday before signing off and i really could not make heads or tails of it at the time and i thought perhaps if i revisit it later, possibly with a little booze in between, it would make a bit more sense.  unfortunately, it does not to me so if you're willing to, could you re-articulate your thoughts for me and provide the support (or at least the argument in clearer terms) for what i believe your central thesis here is...which i think is that we haven't been able to, or we don't have the data yet, to reach any empirically supported conclusions regarding the efficacy of masks in materially mitigating the transmission of covid-19 among any population.

also, you said the danish study was just an example of a study that you think bolstered your opinion and i asked what the other data-driven analyses/reports/studies you could provide.  if you have any, i would be interested in checking them out because ultimately, anyone relying on the danish study to reach a conclusion that masks are ineffective is...to put it in the most diplomatic terms possible...a moron.

I re-read a few things from yesterday, and hell yes I went out on a limb.  Namely, the exact post I was originally responding to was yet another, in many posts on this thread, over-rewarding the efficacy of masks in our current situation to eliminating/limiting the virus and ridiculing anyone who thinks otherwise (even if people participate in the mask wearing, as I've said on many accounts that I do) . I included the study as an additional data point that, while they work in some capacity, they do not and will not mitigate the virus on the whole.  

 

The overarching and most certainly the most important variable in mitigating the spread of the virus is limiting interaction with others in close proximity as much as possible.  Masks, can help, especially when one person is sick, but it's not guarantee.  Extended time in close proximity to multiple others is pretty much how you get it.  Sometimes with masks and everyone observing 6 feet.  It's an aerosolized virus, it's going to spread.  

I will dig up some other studies when I have some free time in my office over the next day or two.  I'm trying to close some business right now and not in the office.  

 

In part, I had a pretty good buzz and wasn't exactly articulating myself as well as I wanted.  I have never advocated that masks don't work, I merely said they aren't as effective as many believe they are.  I'll admit when I go overboard, and I was buzzed enough to do it yesterday.  But I never said I don't think we should wear them, since I've been wearing mine. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Trey3216

[InkaUtexas 25507]

1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

I get the spirit as somebody who fully supports masks and doesn't understand what the big deal is in the midst of a global pandemic.  BUT that last statement is fucking dumb.  First off personally I feel like that masks probably make a much bigger difference than what you state BUT assume they do....you just walked into "masks forever" territory, because basically pretty sure we could all wear masks forever and save .00001 from any respiratory illness, Covid19 or otherwise but you and I know that's a non-starter and when you say shit like that you just walk right into the trap.

Stick to facts, avoid hyperbole....don't give the dumbshits more ammo.  

That is all. 

Got it and agree. But I have been wearing masks for a long time and they have never bothered me. My point was more to the earlier argument about the Denmark study. 1% here, 1% there does make a difference. Sorry for being cheeky on this forum. 

[atomheartbevo 89416]

1 hour ago, elguapo said:

cOvId dEaThS aRe bEiNg oVeRrEpOrTeD!!!1!

TDCJ is feeling pretty cocky that SCOTUS said they were taking appropriate measures.

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/icymi-scotus-backs-texas-attorney-generals-office-its-representation-texas-department-criminal

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89416]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Of course.  We all saw this coming.  My question is this - do we have evidence mask usage is dropping, correlating to a spike, or are we factoring in other variables (that we lump in as seasonality) such as being indoors more, weakened immune systems, cooler weather, etc.  Were the US seeing the only spike, I'd agree it's behavioral....but it's not.  Spikes are happening across the world, and yet most are still keeping the schools open - which is the point here.  

We did all see this coming, which sucks.

It would be great to keep the schools open (and they will, but in a reduced capacity I think), but it's Texas, and hell, if the schools keep running, a whole shitload of people/businesses are going to say "Hey, those schools are still open, and my business/company/whatever is just as essential as any school, so you gotta let us keep running, so we are going to sue the city/county to open everything back up" and the Texas AG/Governor will happily join in said lawsuit.

I'm kind of joking, and that's not the reason they could end up closed (people forget that a shitload of people turn into Karens when they become parents), but I can just see a lot of businesses that are impacted eyeing schools, and deciding to run out a lawsuit, especially since the state will happily join said lawsuit.

 

[atomheartbevo 89416]

With everything said, if Austin can just get/keep its shit together over Thanksgiving (I know, I know, and if Tom Herman can win out this year, and then make the playoffs next year)  flatten that curve a bit, we can get back to where we were earlier in October.  It's just that Christmas/New Year's is a follow-up 1-2 punch a month later, and that is bad.

This doesn't seem to have been as drastic of a rise as we saw earlier this year, so it should be easier to reduce cases and get them back down.

And lest we forget, part of this is because we have a reduced medical capacity due to sending a lot of people/resources to El Paso.   This was the scenario many of us worried/bitched about - other cities or populations getting a little looser with their restrictions, and then we had to help pick up the slack.  El Paso has seen the light, but they haven't been able to win their lawsuits against the state, so who knows when they will get things back under control.  

And that's not to say that we shouldn't be helping El Paso - we absolutely should, but this ultimately shows how we are pretty fucking connected to each other's successes and failures.

[Trey3216 15325]

1 hour ago, Trey3216 said:

I re-read a few things from yesterday, and hell yes I went out on a limb.  Namely, the exact post I was originally responding to was yet another, in many posts on this thread, over-rewarding the efficacy of masks in our current situation to eliminating/limiting the virus and ridiculing anyone who thinks otherwise (even if people participate in the mask wearing, as I've said on many accounts that I do) . I included the study as an additional data point that, while they work in some capacity, they do not and will not mitigate the virus on the whole.  

 

The overarching and most certainly the most important variable in mitigating the spread of the virus is limiting interaction with others in close proximity as much as possible.  Masks, can help, especially when one person is sick, but it's not guarantee.  Extended time in close proximity to multiple others is pretty much how you get it.  Sometimes with masks and everyone observing 6 feet.  It's an aerosolized virus, it's going to spread.  

I will dig up some other studies when I have some free time in my office over the next day or two.  I'm trying to close some business right now and not in the office.  

 

In part, I had a pretty good buzz and wasn't exactly articulating myself as well as I wanted.  I have never advocated that masks don't work, I merely said they aren't as effective as many believe they are.  I'll admit when I go overboard, and I was buzzed enough to do it yesterday.  But I never said I don't think we should wear them, since I've been wearing mine. 

And another point to add, it is really prolonged interaction in close proximity that spreads the virus.  

[Newdoc 3433]

41 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

It's just that Christmas/New Year's is a follow-up 1-2 punch a month later, and that is bad.

 

[Newdoc 3433]

3 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

I at least appreciate the honesty instead of 3 more weeks, then another 3 week, then 3 weeks until it adds up to 13 months. 

But I think you got to put a carrot out there. Vaccine rate goes to x, infection rates got y and deaths drop to Z then mask reduced to only certain situations. People equate masks with lockdowns and grandma locked in nursing home prison.  The messaging sucks but it has for awhile with both political  parties pissing on each other like 3rd graders fighting over 4 square at recess.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

2 minutes ago, Undersirable Carpetbagger said:

I do not use masks, or condoms. Masks and condoms are for losers, sissies and cowards.

Welcome to Surly. You seem like you're a real straight shooter with upper management written all over him.

[Newdoc 3433]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Welcome to Surly. You seem like you're a real straight shooter with gonorrhea all over him.

FIFY

Edited November 19, 2020 by Newdoc

[sidis 9743]

2 hours ago, Kyle said:

Study released on efficacy of masks (actual study): https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

Results: A total of 3030 participants were randomly assigned to the recommendation to wear masks, and 2994 were assigned to control; 4862 completed the study. Infection with SARS-CoV-2 occurred in 42 participants recommended masks (1.8%) and 53 control participants (2.1%). The between-group difference was −0.3 percentage point (95% CI, −1.2 to 0.4 percentage point;  P = 0.38) (odds ratio, 0.82 [CI, 0.54 to 1.23]; P = 0.33). Multiple imputation accounting for loss to follow-up yielded similar results. Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection.

kyle, i would encourage you to read closely some of the weaknesses of this study that have been discussed and linked in this thread over the last few days.

 

1 hour ago, Trey3216 said:

I re-read a few things from yesterday, and hell yes I went out on a limb.  Namely, the exact post I was originally responding to was yet another, in many posts on this thread, over-rewarding the efficacy of masks in our current situation to eliminating/limiting the virus and ridiculing anyone who thinks otherwise (even if people participate in the mask wearing, as I've said on many accounts that I do) . I included the study as an additional data point that, while they work in some capacity, they do not and will not mitigate the virus on the whole.  

 

The overarching and most certainly the most important variable in mitigating the spread of the virus is limiting interaction with others in close proximity as much as possible.  Masks, can help, especially when one person is sick, but it's not guarantee.  Extended time in close proximity to multiple others is pretty much how you get it.  Sometimes with masks and everyone observing 6 feet.  It's an aerosolized virus, it's going to spread.  

I will dig up some other studies when I have some free time in my office over the next day or two.  I'm trying to close some business right now and not in the office.  

 

In part, I had a pretty good buzz and wasn't exactly articulating myself as well as I wanted.  I have never advocated that masks don't work, I merely said they aren't as effective as many believe they are.  I'll admit when I go overboard, and I was buzzed enough to do it yesterday.  But I never said I don't think we should wear them, since I've been wearing mine. 

i suspect you won't follow up with your "digging up" non-existent studies but i will hope for the best.  closing business doesn't preclude you from writing four paragraphs here but it does from copying links from data and studies you are apparently intimately familiar with and pasting them.

[atomheartbevo 89416]

33 minutes ago, Undersirable Carpetbagger said:

I do not use masks, or condoms. Masks and condoms are for losers, sissies and cowards.

[Armybrat 40734]

36 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Welcome to Surly. You seem like you're a real straight shooter with upper management written all over him.

Fitlump has been here before.

[Guest Lobo]

39 minutes ago, Undersirable Carpetbagger said:

I do not use masks, or condoms. Masks and condoms are for losers, sissies and cowards.

For some unknown reason, your mom makes me wear a mask when she goes down on me and i have to wear a condom when I go down on her.  It didn’t make any sense at first but it’s kinda hot.  

[GreenspointTexas 9564]

Yeah I dont see how things get any better over the next 8-10 weeks

 

With Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years, I think its totally possible we pass 500,000 deaths by Valentines Day (itll likely be reported as 400k, but we all know the score)

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

BODIES IN TREES!!!!!!!

[MoJames 8241]

33 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Yeah I dont see how things get any better over the next 8-10 weeks

 

With Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years, I think its totally possible we pass 500,000 deaths by Valentines Day (itll likely be reported as 400k, but we all know the score)

Well one glimmer of hope if we behave over the next month. It appears my hospital will be getting the Pfizer vaccine in early December.

Edited November 19, 2020 by MoJames

[Anastasis 23394]

3 minutes ago, MoJames said:

Well one glimmer of hope if we behave over the next month. It appears my hospital will be getting the Pfizer vaccine in early December.

Interdasting...

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

Personally, I look foreward to a time with no masks. They make it kinda frustrating to creep on soccer moms at Target. We need hope.

[InkaUtexas 25507]

1 minute ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Personally, I look foreward to a time with no masks. They make it kinda frustrating to creep on soccer moms at Target. We need hope.

Gotta focus on the asses. There was a thread about that. 

[workswithseed 2035]

Fucking lol. This seems fun.

[staboner 4957]

6 hours ago, sidis said:

eternal damnation. questioning groupthink.  alt-right fascists.

you people and your fucking victimhood.

The Intelligent Black Guy as President out front shoulda told you

[staboner 4957]

Just now, workswithseed said:

Fucking lol. This seems fun.

SA is funny. They went overboard with the exercise thing. But I get it. It is an all or nothing bit. One security guard fucking a quarantinee (yes that happened here in Australia) was enough to shut down Melbourne for 4 months. 

Life is now good in VIC doe. I believe we are at day 20 with no new cases (and still 10k or more tests a day). Surely it will pop again. But whatever -  I am going camping this weekend and business is almost normal. 

Ya'll homies stay safe and quit bitching about the fuckings masks. just wear one inside and get over it. yes it sucks and yes it can help so just fucking do it. the use of statistics and faulty conclusions being drawn from them is fucking nauseating the last few pages.

[52-80 19086]

1 hour ago, Cheeseweasel said:

BODIES IN TREES!!!!!!!

Dogs and cats giving eachother viruses

[JimmyJames 12271]

Is the hoax over yet?

[Hefeweizen 5307]

On 11/18/2020 at 9:03 AM, Cheeseweasel said:

I think we should have a National Weight Mandate too. Anyone with a BMI over 25 is forced to eat healthy and exercise until they get below 25. WHO'S IN????

Fuck around and find out.  

[Message Board User 12389]

6 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Is the hoax over yet?

Nope.  Not yet.  Tom Herman is still HC.

[Hefeweizen 5307]

1 minute ago, Message Board User said:

Nope.  Not yet.  Tom Herman is still HC.

You bastard.

 

On the other hand, we're still debating wearing masks, so we deserve Herman for another 15 years.

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, Message Board User said:

Nope.  Not yet.  Tom Herman is still HC.

I want UT to win the Big 12 but I also want Herman fired. 
 

Life kinda sucks at the moment on that score.