Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Brisketexan 104,557]

18 minutes ago, Hate said:

The WHO was in lockstep with China reporting that there was no evidence of human to human transmission until late January. That’s 3 months after the first reported cases.

 

7 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

funny thing is they only gave something like 76M to WHO while we gave almost 1B.  

Seems like our strategy of "let's do a shitload of disengaging from WHO while sending a lot of money" was not very effective.  Perhaps we should act more aggressively at having more influence and role commensurate with our contribution.  That seems like a better strategy.

[BabaYaga 15,208]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Seems like our strategy of "let's do a shitload of disengaging from WHO while sending a lot of money" was not very effective.  Perhaps we should act more aggressively at having more influence and role commensurate with our contribution.  That seems like a better strategy.

Or tell the WHO to rightly f off, expand the powers and responsibilities of the CDC beyond our borders, and turn them loose.  Specifically the CDC Global Rapid Response Team.  

[dcar00 14,030]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Seems like our strategy of "let's do a shitload of disengaging from WHO while sending a lot of money" was not very effective.  Perhaps we should act more aggressively at having more influence and role commensurate with our contribution.  That seems like a better strategy.

thats been the strategy since the WHO was founded.  I know you are trying to "but Trump" this thing but these global orgs are set up like this so the US isn't the "big meanie".

we have the UN security council, which helps us minimize the bullshit some, but its still a ridiculous shell game.

by the way, Gates sent 530M.  Money well spent there Bill.

[Anastasis 23,393]

The money should have conditions that dictate our influence, or it should not be given.  We should never give anyone a billion dollars without understanding exactly who will be influencing the way that that money is spent, and we should have mechanisms that explicitly protect the interest of American taxpayers. 

[Hate 20,103]

Seems like our strategy of "let's do a shitload of disengaging from WHO while sending a lot of money" was not very effective.  Perhaps we should act more aggressively at having more influence and role commensurate with our contribution.  That seems like a better strategy.

How do you do that? Send them even more money? Or maybe tell them to fuck off and not fund them anymore? I am not sure but I do know I wouldn’t trust a fucking word that comes from the WHO. This pandemic could have nipped in the bud early if China and the WHO had been honest. Why in the hell would anyone trust them now or the next time this happens.

[Anastasis 23,393]

2 minutes ago, Hate said:

This pandemic could have nipped in the bud early if China and the WHO had been honest.

I am not sure that the WHO was dishonest...moreso just naive and duped by China's obfuscation and deception. There was plenty of that naivete stateside as well. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Anastasis

[BradInATX 9,208]

Or tell the WHO to rightly f off, expand the powers and responsibilities of the CDC beyond our borders, and turn them loose.  Specifically the CDC Global Rapid Response Team.  

So maybe some sort of pandemic task force that puts American researchers overseas to monitor and track emerging viruses and possible pandemics?



BTW I agree with the general anti-WHO sentiment. It's as corrupt as FIFA.

[Captainant 27,442]

15 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

So maybe some sort of pandemic task force that puts American researchers overseas to monitor and track emerging viruses and possible pandemics?



BTW I agree with the general anti-WHO sentiment. It's as corrupt as FIFA.

Careful, don't mention that we had such a task force in place until it was disbanded in 2018

[dcar00 14,030]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

I am not sure that the WHO was dishonest...moreso just naive and duped by China's obfuscation and deception. There was plenty of that naivete stateside as well. 

In general, its always a combination of dishonesty/corruption, naivety, and incompetence.  The crap the UN does with human rights is criminal.

to be honest, its like junior high.

[aggie08 21,424]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Careful, don't mention that we had such a task force in place until it was disbanded in 2018

ClOaK rOoM tHaT ShIt!!!!!!!!!!

Edited January 23, 2021 by aggie08

[dcar00 14,030]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Careful, don't mention that we had such a task force in place until it was disbanded in 2018

I know what big bad Brad was trolling for and you also know it wasn't disbanded...

[BradInATX 9,208]

In general, its always a combination of dishonesty/corruption, naivety, and incompetence.  The crap the UN does with human rights is criminal.
to be honest, its like junior high.

The UN actually does some good work in some spots despite its flaws. I'm not sure what the WHO actually does.

[dcar00 14,030]

Just now, BradInATX said:

The UN actually does some good work in some spots despite its flaws. I'm not sure what the WHO actually does.

they all do some low level stuff that is probably good.  I think I mentioned the WHO probably sends folks in to vaccinate people, probably does some good testing/research, but just like the UN they are completely out of their depth when big shit hits.  they might be OK on the "clean up on aisle 4" but before and during the battle they suck donkey balls.

the shit about the WHO now saying they want to change the way a case is qualified because the test might be too sensitive is just one example of the bullshit

[TwiceHorn 31,262]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

 

The point being large countries like China have and will continue to basically buy as much influence in large, bloated global organizations as they have with the WHO.  

And this is the crux of the matter.  Like it or not, UN and WHO have a lot of influence in developing countries.

China is attempting to leverage those organizations into outsized world influence.

Whether UN and WHO are actually effective organizations is largely beside the point.  If we leave, we abandon the world to Chinese influence.  And Russian. And whoever else wants to flex in those organizations.

Similarly, it sucks that Germany doesn't pay its freight in NATO, which has benefited it tremendously.  Russia is less of a blunt instrument threat than it has been in the past, but we cannot and should not abandon NATO.

If anything, we have to change these international organizations from within or at the very least see that our interests are not being disserved in our absence.

Edited January 23, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Captainant 27,442]

12 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

I know what big bad Brad was trolling for and you also know it wasn't disbanded...

I disagree, but you're welcome to bring your own sourcing to back your claim

[dcar00 14,030]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I disagree, but you're welcome to bring your own sourcing to back your claim

exactly it wasn't disbanded.

[Captainant 27,442]

4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

exactly it wasn't disbanded.

VERDICT

Partly false: The Trump administration disbanded the “pandemic response” team, but some of the team members were reassigned to roles that included pandemic response

[washparkhorn 9,935]

On 1/15/2021 at 9:28 AM, Lobo said:

But in 2019, how the fuck were y'all washing your hands?  Like George Costanza, just pretending to do it by dabbing a bit of water on your hands and then grabbing four paper towels?  I think that adults are finally washing their hands like

that's gross. those dirty fuckers were putrefying while walking around. 

[Anastasis 23,393]

10 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

exactly it wasn't disbanded.

He links an analysis that says the claim is false and tell you to bring your own link. 3D checkers. 

[Captainant 27,442]

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

He links an analysis that says the claim is false and tell you to bring your own link. 3D checkers. 

The claim being fact checked by Reuters was that the entire team was fired. The entire team was not fired, some of them were reassigned. But the team was disbanded. Per the linked article, if you read the whole thing and not just the parts you like

Edited January 23, 2021 by Captainant

[washparkhorn 9,935]

26 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I'm not sure what the WHO actually does.

Puts nations like the United States into impoverished regions with health emergencies and the US  or other nation helps reduce human suffering on the ground. Noble.  Shining City on the Hill kind of thing.

The WHO benefits humankind and the United States. We do this work well traditionally. Our opinion matters at the WHO. It's part of post-WWII America. Dumb to give up that opportunity to help and influence. imho

[washparkhorn 9,935]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

He links an analysis that says the claim is false and tell you to bring your own link. 3D checkers. 

The Beatles are still a band under your definition, Ana. No?

Edited January 23, 2021 by washparkhorn

[Surly Bevo 24,695]

On 1/22/2020 at 5:43 PM, InkaUtexas said:

Creating chaos for travelers. Spiked overnight from 9 confirmed deaths to 17. Wuhan ain't a rocking. Did not see a post on this but would love to know what the group think is on this one. Reports today stated experts think people were eating bats. We need to learn to stop eating bats. 

From BBC. 

Wuhan, a Chinese city of nearly nine million people, is to temporarily shut public transport as it tries to halt the outbreak of a new strain of virus.

Those living in the city have been advised not to leave, in a week when millions of Chinese are travelling for the upcoming Lunar New Year holiday.

The respiratory illness has spread to other parts of China, with some cases in other countries including the US.

There are more than 500 confirmed cases and 17 people have died.

Known for now as 2019-nCoV, the virus is understood to be a new strain of coronavirus not previously identified in humans. The Sars (severe acute respiratory syndrome) virus that killed nearly 800 people globally in the early 2000s was also a coronavirus, as is the common cold.

All the fatalities so far have been in Hubei, the province around Wuhan.

• Chinese virus: How worried should we be? 
• Wuhan: The London-sized city where the virus began
• New China virus: Your questions answered

Meanwhile, after a day of discussions in Geneva, the World Health Organization's (WHO) emergency committee has announced it will not yet declare a "global emergency" over the new virus. 

Director general Dr Tedros Ghebreyesus said more information was needed about the spread of the infection. The committee of health experts will meet again on Thursday.

A global emergency is the highest level of alarm the WHO can sound and has previously been used in response to swine flu, Zika virus and Ebola.

What measures have been announced?

Chinese officials said that from Thursday, all flights and passenger train services out of Wuhan would be stopped.

Bus, subway and ferry services would also shut down from 1000 local time.

A special command centre in Wuhan set up to contain the virus said the move was meant to "resolutely contain the momentum of the epidemic spreading".

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51215348

 

Little surreal to go back and read this.

[Anastasis 23,393]

5 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

The Beatles are still a band under your definition, Ana?

Most of us work in a world where reorganization happens, functions are streamlined, and we are expected to increase operational efficiency.  At least most of us that do not work in government. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Anastasis

[washparkhorn 9,935]

They were national leadership on the issue in the public's eye.  Horribly inefficient, costly, and deadly mistake to send members of the band away from the public eye. 

They were misassigned during a pandemic.

[BradInATX 9,208]

They were national leadership on the issue in the public's eye.  Horribly inefficient, costly, and deadly mistake to send members of the band away from the public eye. 
They were misassigned during a pandemic.

They were reassigned from an org headed by a doctor to an org headed by a North Korea expert.

[dcar00 14,030]

26 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The claim being fact checked by Reuters was that the entire team was fired. The entire team was not fired, some of them were reassigned. But the team was disbanded. Per the linked article, if you read the whole thing and not just the parts you like

the team was folded in to nsc. yes some were let go in the streamlining.

don't worry Fauci couldn't wait to get back with the cool kids again.  we're back Baby!

[dcar00 14,030]

26 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Little surreal to go back and read this.

yep crazy.  I think there is little doubt now it wasn't the bats.  March 8th Fauci said we didn't really need to worry

[Armybrat 40,725]

Can’t believe my alma mater Is planning its annual mass class reunion next month. They of course canceled it last year, but I think their optimism is a bit misplaced. Being that it would be my 59th (HS) and 54th (college), I’m sure most of my classmates ain’t showing up...either to avoid exposure to the virus or they have already assumed room temperature.  Last time I attended several years ago, the numbers had dwindled to a considerable degree.

[dcar00 14,030]

41 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Puts nations like the United States into impoverished regions with health emergencies and the US  or other nation helps reduce human suffering on the ground. Noble.  Shining City on the Hill kind of thing.

The WHO benefits humankind and the United States. We do this work well traditionally. Our opinion matters at the WHO. It's part of post-WWII America. Dumb to give up that opportunity to help and influence. imho

right, they aren't doing nothing, and as with any org the lower level folks are probably doing good work in areas on the ground.    But..then when the world actually needs them, and not the US, they are a complete failure.   We can do that without WHO leadership grifters

another case where other countries need to start pulling their weight and we/they need to hold the criminals in charge to account and tell them to quit kowtowing to China, etc.  Instead we come running back saying we can't wait to meet up in Paris for some champagne and caviar.  Someone needs to publicly call them out and fix the crap so we know what our 1B dollars is accomplishing and that they won't be an utter failure the next time.

at the exec level these global orgs are a money laundering machine and it needs to stop.

[Anastasis 23,393]

3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

We can do that without WHO leadership grifters

My sense as well. If we want to be that shining city on the hill, we have the means and the expertise and can forge those connections directly. We don't need to run it through a middle man that isn't aligned to our interests and is skimming to other programs outside our direct control. Better for the world to see US boots on the ground spreading eagle boner love through health and vaccinations and distribution of HIV meds developed through NIH funding than US drones overhead spreading eagle boner love through hellfires and cluster bombs. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Anastasis

[washparkhorn 9,935]

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

My sense as well. If we want to be that shining city on the hill, we have the means and the expertise and can forge those connections directly. We don't need to run it through a middle man that isn't aligned to our interests and is skimming to other programs outside our direct control. Better for the world to see US boots on the ground spreading eagle boner love through health and vaccinations and distribution of HIV meds developed through NIH funding than US drones overhead spreading eagle boner love through hellfires and cluster bombs. 

We can do it through the UN and through our own efforts. 

The UN is a force magnifier (and multiplier) for the US - hearts, minds, and pandemic warfare.  

Edited January 23, 2021 by washparkhorn

[Anastasis 23,393]

Just now, washparkhorn said:

The UN is a force magnifier for the US

How exactly is our investment magnified relative to our control and influence over priorities?

[Captainant 27,442]

40 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

the team was folded in to nsc. yes some were let go in the streamlining.

Sweet doublespeak to gloss over that the team and it's function were disbanded. And that the US response to COVID was a wet fart of uncoordinated and unplanned ad-hoc deployments. 

'Member when we were reopening for easter? Or 'member when we beat it over the summer? Not looking too hot on those predictions (or yours from earlier this year lulz). 

Point being: our capacity for response was measurably reduced prior to COVID, and it's hard to argue that 390k dead in a year is doing a good job, so I don't get why you're so keen to handwave and ignore the things that directly led to more dead americans

[Stannis 232]

1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

The Beatles are still a band under your definition, Ana. No?

Speaking of the Beatles, at the beginning of the pandemic, I spent a lot of my nights listening to Beatles songs like Let it Be, Here Comes the Sun, Dear Prudence, In My Life, and the Long and Winding Road (and post-break up stuff from Harrison like Give me Love and My Sweet Lord).  You know, the kind of soft, spiritual, almost despondent, but optimistic tunes that make you happy and sad at the same time. 

Now, a year later, I swear I find myself listening exclusively to Helter Skelter, Sgt. Pepper's, Run for Your Life, I Me Mine, I'm Looking Through You, Happiness Is a Warm Gun, Ticket to Ride, etc.  I think I've grown numb to feel-good music and have firmly embraced my anger at whoever ate that fucking bat in Wuhan a little over a year ago.

[Anastasis 23,393]

3 minutes ago, Stannis said:

Speaking of the Beatles, at the beginning of the pandemic, I spent a lot of my nights listening to Beatles songs like Let it Be, Here Comes the Sun, Dear Prudence, In My Life, and the Long and Winding Road (and post-break up stuff from Harrison like Give me Love and My Sweet Lord).  You know, the kind of soft, spiritual, almost despondent, but optimistic tunes that make you happy and sad at the same time. 

Now, a year later, I swear I find myself listening exclusively to Helter Skelter, Sgt. Pepper's, Run for Your Life, I Me Mine, I'm Looking Through You, Happiness Is a Warm Gun, Ticket to Ride, etc.  I think I've grown numb to feel-good music and have firmly embraced my anger at whoever ate that fucking bat in Wuhan a little over a year ago.

More Jerry Jeff here.

 

 

[Armybrat 40,725]

Every once in a while I like to listen to these high school kids:

 

[Anastasis 23,393]

And for those committed to fantastical misrepresentations of Beatles harmony...

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Anastasis

[Armybrat 40,725]

Ok, I’ll jump on the Beatles’ bandwagon with one of my favorites..

 

[Hate 20,103]

14 minutes ago, Stannis said:

Speaking of the Beatles, at the beginning of the pandemic, I spent a lot of my nights listening to Beatles songs like Let it Be, Here Comes the Sun, Dear Prudence, In My Life, and the Long and Winding Road (and post-break up stuff from Harrison like Give me Love and My Sweet Lord).  You know, the kind of soft, spiritual, almost despondent, but optimistic tunes that make you happy and sad at the same time. 

Now, a year later, I swear I find myself listening exclusively to Helter Skelter, Sgt. Pepper's, Run for Your Life, I Me Mine, I'm Looking Through You, Happiness Is a Warm Gun, Ticket to Ride, etc.  I think I've grown numb to feel-good music and have firmly embraced my anger at whoever ate that fucking bat in Wuhan a little over a year ago.

You should visit the Grateful Dead thread if you really want to get weird!

[workswithseed 2,035]

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I am not sure that the WHO was dishonest...moreso just naive and duped by China's obfuscation and deception. There was plenty of that naivete stateside as well. 

Maybe, but just don't ask about Taiwan telling them about what was happening.

[XYZ 2,154]

1 hour ago, Stannis said:

Speaking of the Beatles, at the beginning of the pandemic, I spent a lot of my nights listening to Beatles songs like Let it Be, Here Comes the Sun, Dear Prudence, In My Life, and the Long and Winding Road (and post-break up stuff from Harrison like Give me Love and My Sweet Lord).  You know, the kind of soft, spiritual, almost despondent, but optimistic tunes that make you happy and sad at the same time. 

Now, a year later, I swear I find myself listening exclusively to Helter Skelter, Sgt. Pepper's, Run for Your Life, I Me Mine, I'm Looking Through You, Happiness Is a Warm Gun, Ticket to Ride, etc.  I think I've grown numb to feel-good music and have firmly embraced my anger at whoever ate that fucking bat in Wuhan a little over a year ago.

SARS-CoV-2 didn’t come from eating a bat.

[Guest Lobo]

so where did it come from then?  I just need to know so I can put on the appropriate beatles album.  

[Anastasis 23,393]

9 minutes ago, Lobo said:

so where did it come from then?  I just need to know so I can put on the appropriate beatles album.  

 

[Hate 20,103]

so where did it come from then?  I just need to know so I can put on the appropriate beatles album.  

Just out this one on.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

 

[GRHorn 105]

I won’t comment any further. I’d hate to upset anyone here with any editorializing. Just the facts. 

[Captainant 27,442]

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

I won’t comment any further. I’d hate to upset anyone here with any editorializing. Just the facts. 

I mean, if I'm getting on an airplane, I'd prefer that everyone else has a recent negative test and is compelled to wear a facemask while in a sealed metal tube with 100 other strangers

[GRHorn 105]

20 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I mean, if I'm getting on an airplane, I'd prefer that everyone else has a recent negative test and is compelled to wear a facemask while in a sealed metal tube with 100 other strangers

Interesting idea, although the negative test angle has a lot of holes. When is the window for test? Rapid? Then more false negatives? We should just put one of these in every other seat. 
 

 

[Telegraph_it 3,354]

3 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Interesting idea, although the negative test angle has a lot of holes. When is the window for test? Rapid? Then more false negatives? We should just put one of these in every other seat. 
 

 

That’s awesome.