Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[fattyflattie 4636]

I’ve got some reading to do on it, I’ll admit that right now. But I’m assuming one of the big pushbacks is having to pay for fat people, lazy people, and people who knowingly harm their bodies with drugs, alcohol, tobacco etc?  Coincidentally the same groups that typically already contribute less to the slush fund.  

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

35 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Gottdam, even Itchy & Scratchy can’t compete with this.

I have a grasp of what constitutes primary care and catastrophic backstops, vs optional care.   Covering the primary two and letting private insurers cover the latter isn’t even arguably.   Makes no sense why we don’t do it, except for dumbassery like @workswithseed keeps promulgating.     

[BradInATX 9208]

I’ve got some reading to do on it, I’ll admit that right now. But I’m assuming one of the big pushbacks is having to pay for fat people, lazy people, and people who knowingly harm their bodies with drugs, alcohol, tobacco etc?  Coincidentally the same groups that typically already contribute less to the slush fund.  

You're already paying for those people every time you go to the doctor or hospital. Who do you think subsidizes all the poors' unpaid ER bills?

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I’ve got some reading to do on it, I’ll admit that right now. But I’m assuming one of the big pushbacks is having to pay for fat people, lazy people, and people who knowingly harm their bodies with drugs, alcohol, tobacco etc?  Coincidentally the same groups that typically already contribute less to the slush fund.  

You’re paying for that now, you’re paying through increased premiums for those people who aren’t turned away.  You’re paying through both Medicare and by paying dollars to businesses to cover their employees.   Pay one bellybutton you can can control, fool not five you cant.  

[fattyflattie 4636]

Just now, BradInATX said:

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I’ve got some reading to do on it, I’ll admit that right now. But I’m assuming one of the big pushbacks is having to pay for fat people, lazy people, and people who knowingly harm their bodies with drugs, alcohol, tobacco etc?  Coincidentally the same groups that typically already contribute less to the slush fund.  

You're already paying for those people every time you go to the doctor or hospital. Who do you think subsidizes all the poors' unpaid ER bills?

So the only thing I’d gain is losing the private insurance I have, and have had my entire career?    And I assume some type of tax hike (would be great if not). 
 

I mean I could do without it, I did when I was consulting.  And that was the best gig I ever had. But was nice to get back on good insurance again with little ones. 

[fattyflattie 4636]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

So the only thing I’d gain is losing the private insurance I have, and have had my entire career?    And I assume some type of tax hike (would be great if not). 
 

I mean I could do without it, I did when I was consulting.  And that was the best gig I ever had. But was nice to get back on good insurance again with little ones. 

Eta: one of the companies I used to work for, and I know of several others that still do, basically penalized you if you smoked, or couldn’t complete certain physical requirements throughout the year. It wasn’t much, maybe $35/month, but it sucked when I was (at the time) a tobacco user. It’s not going to make you go broke, but it pretty solidly hit home that they were tired of spending more on you because a choice you made.    That would go a long way in convincing a lot of people imo as well.  Especially while at the same time trying to “end the war on drugs”.   

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

So the only thing I’d gain is losing the private insurance I have, and have had my entire career?    And I assume some type of tax hike (would be great if not). 
 

I mean I could do without it, I did when I was consulting.  And that was the best gig I ever had. But was nice to get back on good insurance again with little ones. 

So the only thing I can gain....   there’s where you fucked up.  Do you have investments? Do you realize the largest overhead investments and most volative of those investments are healthcare premiums?   I’m fine, everyone else can pound sand is not a sound strategy.

[BradInATX 9208]

So the only thing I’d gain is losing the private insurance I have, and have had my entire career?    And I assume some type of tax hike (would be great if not). 
 
I mean I could do without it, I did when I was consulting.  And that was the best gig I ever had. But was nice to get back on good insurance again with little ones. 

Not sure. I'm sort of a fence sitter on healthcare and M4A. I have great insurance that I want to keep and not pay extra taxes for keeping. All I know is all medical stuff gets paid for by somebody already and the data shows that subsidizing preventative care saves money in the long run. The model of the uninsured just going to the ER for everything and not paying their bills has to be one of the dumbest possible solutions.

[Pato del Muerto 52320]

37 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Pay one bellybutton you can can control, fool not five you cant.  

I’m going to have to sleep on this sentence. 

[Guest Lobo]

42 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Pay one bellybutton you can can control, fool not five you cant.  

There's a lot going on here in terms of just financial planning.  I'm gonna call Susie Ormond and pray on this for a bit.  I suspect there's also a more esoteric spiritual message at play.

[fattyflattie 4636]

34 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

So the only thing I can gain....   there’s where you fucked up.

Why?  I made sure to have it for myself and family.  I took a massive pay cut at one point when one of my daughters was having issues, because the math worked (think 100k+).  I’d be glad if it works for everyone, but I don’t see why it’s “fucked up” to care for myself/family and what’s best for them.  More tax and better coverage, cool. More tax, less coverage is not ideal. 

[Message Board User 12389]

 

[Message Board User 12389]

 

[workswithseed 2033]

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2019

This edition of Waiting Your Turn indicates that, overall, waiting times for medically necessary treatment have increased since last year. Specialist physicians surveyed report a median waiting time of 20.9 weeks between referral from a general practitioner and receipt of treatment—longer than the wait of 19.8 weeks reported in 2018. This year’s wait time is just shy of the longest wait time recorded in this survey’s history (21.2 weeks in 2017) and is 124% longer than in 1993, when it was just 9.3 weeks.

There is a great deal of variation in the total waiting time faced by patients across the provinces. Ontario reports the shortest total wait—16.0 weeks—while Prince Edward Island reports the longest—49.3 weeks. There is also a great deal of variation among specialties. Patients wait longest between a GP referral and orthopaedic surgery (39.1 weeks), while those waiting for medical oncology begin treatment in 4.4 weeks.

 

The results of this year’s survey indicate that despite provincial strategies to reduce wait times and high levels of health expenditure, it is clear that patients in Canada continue to wait too long to receive medically necessary treatment.

 

it's not just The NHS. Even the Canadian healthcare is increasing wait times as well. I also don't like that I'm needing to go to school, or dumb for taking a different stance on M4A or very regulated (it's not like our isn't) healthcare it's ridiculous. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by workswithseed

[Message Board User 12389]

There is absolutely no good reason, none, zero, zippo, nada, that all schools shouldn't be open 5 days a week.

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

There is absolutely no good reason, none, zero, zippo, nada, that all schools shouldn't be open 5 days a week.

 

Why not done?!?!

[Guest Lobo]

I don't know of a single school district in Texas that isn't open up 5 days/week.  Are there any?  We chose a different path, but our district is open everyday, all day at between 75-100% capacity.  Basically anybody who wants to be in class, can be in class.  I'm sure that's not the case everywhere but those of us who want local control and parental choice...well this is what we signed up for.  No U.S. Dept. of Education is going to tell my state what to do.  And my state isn't gonna tell me local I.S.D. what to do.  The shit we signed on for a decade ago has lasting consequences.  

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

12 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2019

This edition of Waiting Your Turn indicates that, overall, waiting times for medically necessary treatment have increased since last year. Specialist physicians surveyed report a median waiting time of 20.9 weeks between referral from a general practitioner and receipt of treatment—longer than the wait of 19.8 weeks reported in 2018. This year’s wait time is just shy of the longest wait time recorded in this survey’s history (21.2 weeks in 2017) and is 124% longer than in 1993, when it was just 9.3 weeks.

There is a great deal of variation in the total waiting time faced by patients across the provinces. Ontario reports the shortest total wait—16.0 weeks—while Prince Edward Island reports the longest—49.3 weeks. There is also a great deal of variation among specialties. Patients wait longest between a GP referral and orthopaedic surgery (39.1 weeks), while those waiting for medical oncology begin treatment in 4.4 weeks.

 

The results of this year’s survey indicate that despite provincial strategies to reduce wait times and high levels of health expenditure, it is clear that patients in Canada continue to wait too long to receive medically necessary treatment.

 

it's not just The NHS. Even the Canadian healthcare is increasing wait times as well. I also don't like that I'm needing to go to school, or dumb for taking a different stance on M4A or very regulated (it's not like our isn't) healthcare it's ridiculous. 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

Thats us at the bottom there, sparky, we can do better. We need to do better. Be better.  Be best.  

[Captainant 27308]

22 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2019

This edition of Waiting Your Turn indicates that, overall, waiting times for medically necessary treatment have increased since last year. Specialist physicians surveyed report a median waiting time of 20.9 weeks between referral from a general practitioner and receipt of treatment—longer than the wait of 19.8 weeks reported in 2018. This year’s wait time is just shy of the longest wait time recorded in this survey’s history (21.2 weeks in 2017) and is 124% longer than in 1993, when it was just 9.3 weeks.

There is a great deal of variation in the total waiting time faced by patients across the provinces. Ontario reports the shortest total wait—16.0 weeks—while Prince Edward Island reports the longest—49.3 weeks. There is also a great deal of variation among specialties. Patients wait longest between a GP referral and orthopaedic surgery (39.1 weeks), while those waiting for medical oncology begin treatment in 4.4 weeks.

 

The results of this year’s survey indicate that despite provincial strategies to reduce wait times and high levels of health expenditure, it is clear that patients in Canada continue to wait too long to receive medically necessary treatment.

 

it's not just The NHS. Even the Canadian healthcare is increasing wait times as well. I also don't like that I'm needing to go to school, or dumb for taking a different stance on M4A or very regulated (it's not like our isn't) healthcare it's ridiculous. 

Lulz who could have guessed that a koch brothers funded think tank would say that universal healthcare is bad. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Captainant

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

I have one thing standing between me and retirement, and that is healthcare.  I will fight for universal because I’m gonna die either way, I’d rather die with a cup of coffee on my porch than having a heart attack on the phone with AETNA trying to get my meds approved through CVS.  

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

This young jackass doesn’t understand I’ve paid over a million into public healthcare already, and I’m not getting anything out of it yet.  And also have paid close to a million to private insurance.  

[fattyflattie 4636]

25 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I don't know of a single school district in Texas that isn't open up 5 days/week.  Are there any?  We chose a different path, but our district is open everyday, all day at between 75-100% capacity.  Basically anybody who wants to be in class, can be in class.  I'm sure that's not the case everywhere but those of us who want local control and parental choice...well this is what we signed up for.  No U.S. Dept. of Education is going to tell my state what to do.  And my state isn't gonna tell me local I.S.D. what to do.  The shit we signed on for a decade ago has lasting consequences.  

These last few weeks they’ve been making ours go virtual, per wife’s Facebook (we stayed home this year).   I *think* you can still send them up there, but I don’t think there are any teachers teaching, just them watching students watch a computer (from what I took away from it) 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

These last few weeks they’ve been making ours go virtual, per wife’s Facebook (we stayed home this year).   I *think* you can still send them up there, but I don’t think there are any teachers teaching, just them watching students watch a computer (from what I took away from it) 

Dude, I’ve paid close to a Harvard tuition to have my youngest get his comp sci degree online.  These next few years are going to be interesting as fuck, recruiting wise.  Nothing is as it was a year ago.  

[fattyflattie 4636]

2 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Dude, I’ve paid close to a Harvard tuition to have my youngest get his comp sci degree online.  These next few years are going to be interesting as fuck, recruiting wise.  Nothing is as it was a year ago.  

That’s in Fort Bend and elementary.  Like I said, the only info I’ve seen is housewife bitching. We chose to stay at home this year, which has worked finominilly for us. But the kids want to go back for sure.  They are handling it well but they need to get back. 

[Don Johnson 4744]

 

[Guest Lobo]

Holy Batfuckers, Batman! 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

So the "some fucker ate a bat and killed us all" theory is real? Thanks, China.

[Guest Lobo]

so how you say in Sino-Mandarin to the guy next to you eating a bat, "You arrogant ass, you've killed us!"  ???

[Newdoc 3429]

11 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Thats us at the bottom there, sparky, we can do better. We need to do better. Be better.  Be best.  

I would like to see some numbers normalized for our current state of health versus other countries. Obviously we are spending way too much no matter how you take out the variables but damn, we are an obese, lazy, unhealthy nation. And that is one of the reasons our Covid hospitalization and death numbers are so high.

[XYZ 2154]

Leaving aside the “nation of unhealthy people” angle, what I’d like to know is why an MRI in the USA costs 20 times more than in Japan.

[Guest Lobo]

because we need bigger machines.  Plus, they lease any unused MRI machines in Japan as business hotels during off-peak hours at the hospital.  Savings add up.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Lobo

[workswithseed 2033]

This is why an MRI costs so much.

https://money.com/why-does-mri-cost-so-much/

https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/japan.php

"The Japan healthcare system is one of the world’s finest. In fact, Japanese citizens have a longer life expectancy than anyone else. The system puts a high priority on preventative care. It also offers free screening tests for certain illnesses, as well as superb prenatal programs.

However, despite the high emphasis on preventative care, Japanese physicians and nurses aren’t required to go through license renewals. They don’t even have to participate in continuing education. As well, Japanese citizens don’t usually have one dedicated family physician as you might find in Canada or the United States. There are comparatively very few general practitioners. Most physicians have a sub-specialty. Patients in need simply go directly to the kind of specialist they require."

Looks like they don't have as high of a bar to cross to become a doctor. So it's universal, but cheaper and less intensive to become a doctor, so cheaper in that sense, and can make more doctors.

"The issue of wait times and hospital capacity won’t change any time soon. Japanese citizens have the longest life expectancy in the world – and the country’s healthcare system is constantly looking at ways to better serve it’s large and aging population. By 2050, 40% of the Japanese population will be over 65 years old."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/06/AR2009090601630.html?sid=ST2009102805439

Here's some more stuff exactly on Japanese healthcare, I couldn't fully read it since I'm at work, but seems like a lot of info on both sides.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

1 hour ago, Newdoc said:

I would like to see some numbers normalized for our current state of health versus other countries. Obviously we are spending way too much no matter how you take out the variables but damn, we are an obese, lazy, unhealthy nation. And that is one of the reasons our Covid hospitalization and death numbers are so high.

Absolutely true we are unhealthy.  I have no idea how to solve that problem either, without draconian measures that nobody wants.  Flipping back to workswithseed's originally linked article, cutting funding to preventative health measures certainly is a step in the wrong direction.

One thing I have seen in recent years, particularly on my own HD plan, is that giving discounts for meeting certain criteria (improving certain biometric numbers, not smoking etc) are really visible, tangible ways to incentivize people being healthier.  Like a few hundred dollars a month.  Of course you have to pay attention and care.  But if you had universal healthcare, in theory at least you could put that in place.  Go get your checkup and improve your BMI or cholesterol levels?  You pay $100 less a month in your insurance tax.  Quit smoking?  Save another $50 a month.  Money seems to be one thing everyone understands.  Otherwise being healthy is hard.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Judge Roybeanbag

[Incredulity 11532]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

This is why an MRI costs so much.

https://money.com/why-does-mri-cost-so-much/

https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/japan.php

"The Japan healthcare system is one of the world’s finest. In fact, Japanese citizens have a longer life expectancy than anyone else. The system puts a high priority on preventative care. It also offers free screening tests for certain illnesses, as well as superb prenatal programs.

However, despite the high emphasis on preventative care, Japanese physicians and nurses aren’t required to go through license renewals. They don’t even have to participate in continuing education. As well, Japanese citizens don’t usually have one dedicated family physician as you might find in Canada or the United States. There are comparatively very few general practitioners. Most physicians have a sub-specialty. Patients in need simply go directly to the kind of specialist they require."

Looks like they don't have as high of a bar to cross to become a doctor. So it's universal, but cheaper and less intensive to become a doctor, so cheaper in that sense, and can make more doctors.

"The issue of wait times and hospital capacity won’t change any time soon. Japanese citizens have the longest life expectancy in the world – and the country’s healthcare system is constantly looking at ways to better serve it’s large and aging population. By 2050, 40% of the Japanese population will be over 65 years old."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/06/AR2009090601630.html?sid=ST2009102805439

Here's some more stuff exactly on Japanese healthcare, I couldn't fully read it since I'm at work, but seems like a lot of info on both sides.

This highlights another aspect of US culture that is diametrically opposed to "muh freedom to be a fat fuck" ethos which is our zero-risk tolerance government bureaucracy.  Apropos to this thread by the FDA dithering over EUA of vaccines while other countries are already using them.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

13 hours ago, Lobo said:

I don't know of a single school district in Texas that isn't open up 5 days/week.  Are there any?  We chose a different path, but our district is open everyday, all day at between 75-100% capacity.  Basically anybody who wants to be in class, can be in class.  I'm sure that's not the case everywhere but those of us who want local control and parental choice...well this is what we signed up for.  No U.S. Dept. of Education is going to tell my state what to do.  And my state isn't gonna tell me local I.S.D. what to do.  The shit we signed on for a decade ago has lasting consequences.  

HISD (at least my kids' HS) is 2 days a week.  You're divided into Red or Blue, and there's a Red Day-Blue Day-Cleaning Day pattern.  When you go, you sit in the classroom while the teacher teaches the class via Zoom.  It's totally pointless to be there if you have options, but about half of the kids are going. 

And for the last 2 months they're averaging 3-4 cases per week at the school (they send us a nightly report each time there's a case). 

My daughter in particular is struggling mightily with remote learning, so I'm torn.  It's idiotic to do it the way it's being done - there's just no reason to go.  But logic tells me that if they went back to normal school we'd be looking at 6-8 or more cases per week, which seems pretty damn high in a population of less than 2000.

 

[dcar00 14023]

1 hour ago, Don Johnson said:

 

well yeah, pangolins dude.  South Park had this figured out 4 months ago.

seriously though, who is gonna believe WHO.  Id say is 99% chance this escaped that lab. occam's razor and all.

[Incredulity 11532]

Just now, dcar00 said:

well yeah, pangolins dude.  South Park had this figured out 4 months ago.

seriously though, who is gonna believe WHO.  Id say is 99% chance this escaped that lab. occam's razor and all.

Paraphrasing the reporter on CNBC from Beijing this morning, 

 

There is ALOT of pressure on scientists in China right now to not stray from the party narratives on origin of Covid-19.

 

 

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

3 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

HISD (at least my kids' HS) is 2 days a week.  You're divided into Red or Blue, and there's a Red Day-Blue Day-Cleaning Day pattern.  When you go, you sit in the classroom while the teacher teaches the class via Zoom.  It's totally pointless to be there if you have options, but about half of the kids are going. 

And for the last 2 months they're averaging 3-4 cases per week at the school (they send us a nightly report each time there's a case). 

My daughter in particular is struggling mightily with remote learning, so I'm torn.  It's idiotic to do it the way it's being done - there's just no reason to go.  But logic tells me that if they went back to normal school we'd be looking at 6-8 or more cases per week, which seems pretty damn high in a population of less than 2000.

 

Now that I think about it - it's half of half (half the kids divided into two groups), so with full school you'd be looking at 12-16 cases per week assuming linear progression only.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

[BradInATX 9208]

45 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

This is why an MRI costs so much.

https://money.com/why-does-mri-cost-so-much/

https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/japan.php

"The Japan healthcare system is one of the world’s finest. In fact, Japanese citizens have a longer life expectancy than anyone else. The system puts a high priority on preventative care. It also offers free screening tests for certain illnesses, as well as superb prenatal programs.

However, despite the high emphasis on preventative care, Japanese physicians and nurses aren’t required to go through license renewals. They don’t even have to participate in continuing education. As well, Japanese citizens don’t usually have one dedicated family physician as you might find in Canada or the United States. There are comparatively very few general practitioners. Most physicians have a sub-specialty. Patients in need simply go directly to the kind of specialist they require."

Looks like they don't have as high of a bar to cross to become a doctor. So it's universal, but cheaper and less intensive to become a doctor, so cheaper in that sense, and can make more doctors.

"The issue of wait times and hospital capacity won’t change any time soon. Japanese citizens have the longest life expectancy in the world – and the country’s healthcare system is constantly looking at ways to better serve it’s large and aging population. By 2050, 40% of the Japanese population will be over 65 years old."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/06/AR2009090601630.html?sid=ST2009102805439

Here's some more stuff exactly on Japanese healthcare, I couldn't fully read it since I'm at work, but seems like a lot of info on both sides.

 

I like how you just pretended this part didn't exist:

The Japan healthcare system is one of the world’s finest. In fact, Japanese citizens have a longer life expectancy than anyone else. The system puts a high priority on preventative care. It also offers free screening tests for certain illnesses, as well as superb prenatal programs.

You just keep ramming your head into the wall that is surly thinking that eventually the logic and terrible flawed arguments that impress your idiot hillbilly Facebook friends are going to start working here.

Edited February 9, 2021 by BradInATX

[workswithseed 2033]

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

I like how you just pretended this part didn't exist:

The Japan healthcare system is one of the world’s finest. In fact, Japanese citizens have a longer life expectancy than anyone else. The system puts a high priority on preventative care. It also offers free screening tests for certain illnesses, as well as superb prenatal programs.

You just keep ramming your head into the wall that is surly thinking that eventually the logic and terrible flawed arguments that impress your idiot hillbilly Facebook friends are going to start working here.

Sure, I lied by ommission even though you somehow found it. Good job, I was just hiding it behind the link.

[Homercles 10205]

Can we not do another day of WWS vs All Comers Healthcare Debate And General Buggery Showdown #1 2021?

[BradInATX 9208]

5 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Sure, I lied by ommission even though you somehow found it. Good job, I was just hiding it behind the link.

 

It's not that you lied, it's that you seem incapable fitting more than one facet of any particular issue into your brain.

[Homercles 10205]

Oh and obligatory 

[Brisketexan 104460]

1 hour ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Absolutely true we are unhealthy.  I have no idea how to solve that problem either, without draconian measures that nobody wants.  Flipping back to workswithseed's originally linked article, cutting funding to preventative health measures certainly is a step in the wrong direction.

One thing I have seen in recent years, particularly on my own HD plan, is that giving discounts for meeting certain criteria (improving certain biometric numbers, not smoking etc) are really visible, tangible ways to incentivize people being healthier.  Like a few hundred dollars a month.  Of course you have to pay attention and care.  But if you had universal healthcare, in theory at least you could put that in place.  Go get your checkup and improve your BMI or cholesterol levels?  You pay $100 less a month in your insurance tax.  Quit smoking?  Save another $50 a month.  Money seems to be one thing everyone understands.  Otherwise being healthy is hard.

We could start by not subsidizing things like high fructose corn syrup, which we subsidize literally from the farm field to the factory to the grocery store shelf (via food aid).

Our entire system is built to 1) produce unhealthy outcomes, and 2) funnel dollars to for-profit enterprises to either cause or treat those unhealthy outcomes.

What some folks are proposing is maybe, just MAYBE, we should scrap that shitty system, and go with one that 1) doesn't subsidize unhealthy outcomes, and 2) incentivizes preventing/early treatment to control costs (actually, Medicare - believe it or not - has a decent model on that).  

The facts are undeniable, and they are giant: we spend VASTLY more money, per person, on healthcare, with very middling results, outcome-wise, across the board.  Our ROI is FUCKING TERRIBLE.  If you are a capitalist, there's no way to look at our system and NOT see it as a fucking colossal waste and terrible investment in its current form.

Shit, let's imagine a world in which we get the SAME outcome that we get today, but instead of spending almost $8k per year per person on that....we only spend $6k (which would STILL put us as one of the pricier systems in the world).  We'd spend TWICE as much as the UK, save $2k per person per year from current spending levels, and still get the same outcomes.  Seems like a no-brainer?

But no, we have to champion "capitalism!  Anything EXCEPT our current system is red-star-wearing COMMUNISM, and will lead to enslavement of all Americans!"....even though the numbers on our system are utterly crappy.  We are fighting, tooth and nail, to preserve something that is the most expensive in the world, producing mediocre outcomes.  That's not capitalism.  That's cronyism, oligarchist bullshit.

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

If you are a capitalist, there's no way to look at our system and NOT see it as a fucking colossal waste and terrible investment in its current form.

 

Sure there is, you just have to be a fucking idiot who gets manipulated and owned by rich people running the class warfare distraction playbook that has worked on poor white trash for a hundred-plus years.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

11 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Can we not do another day of WWS vs All Comers Healthcare Debate And General Buggery Showdown #1 2021?

[workswithseed 2033]

27 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

It's not that you lied, it's that you seem incapable fitting more than one facet of any particular issue into your brain.

I could have just left out the part that it's one of the finest. You just seem nit picky here.

 

21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

But no, we have to champion "capitalism!  Anything EXCEPT our current system is red-star-wearing COMMUNISM, 

Yes, let's get the state out of healthcare. I agree.

[workswithseed 2033]

31 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Can we not do another day of WWS vs All Comers Healthcare Debate And General Buggery Showdown #1 2021?

The war never ends, it's just a bunch of proxy battles. The La Li Lu Le Lo make sure that the system alway keeps going.