Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[VelvetFreeze 114]

It'll never happen.  Covid 19 is Biden's cash cow.  It will be milked.

[Brisketexan 106951]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

How many flu deaths would we have if we tested 400 million for the flu in 10 months and categorized everyone who had a positive result who dies within 60 days from a positive result or presumed positive for flu as a flu death?

I am not sure I trust the 500,000 to 80,000 is apples to apples.  We would have a lot more flu deaths if it were.

This is a sidetrack. I absolutely believe Covid is dangerous for older people. The flu doesn't wipe out nursing homes like Covid does.  Nor does it spread as easy as Covid. Someone in my house gets the flu probably once a year.  We never transmit it to each other.  Wife got Covid from her sister around New Years, and all 4 of us had it despite being as careful as one can be when living together.

 

We aren't even come close to testing all who are/may have serious COVID cases either.  No, they're not perfectly apples-to-apples -- our data is imperfect for both.  But let's go with the data that is unassailable: the number of people populating ICUs and dying in hospitals.  Come on.  What has happened in our hospitals the past year hasn't happened with respect to the flu in a century (outside of an occasional periodic, localized serious flu outbreak...and even then, nowhere near the fatality count in that hospital).  COVID is a more widespread illness, that causes more broad "big" harm than the flu does.  

And while yes, it is most deadly for old people (as is the flu), it's serious injury rate (long-term lung and heart injury) is significantly higher for all, including younger people (more people between 30-60 have died, and/or suffered "long COVID" than the flu hits that way).  And yes, the higher transmissibility of COVID is also a material part of how dangerous it is.  Two diseases, even if they had the exact same CFR, but one is twice as virulent, makes that disease twice as deadly.

Bottom line, we end up at the same place.  The flu kills around 50k Americans a year.  If we can get COVID to that level, we need to be willing to call that a win (and again, deaths are not the sole metric, but they are a workable benchmark).

[dcar00 14976]

2 hours ago, Message Board User said:

🤪

 

Hopefully Ol' Joe will call him out for Denisovan thinking

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We aren't even come close to testing all who are/may have serious COVID cases either.  No, they're not perfectly apples-to-apples -- our data is imperfect for both.  But let's go with the data that is unassailable: the number of people populating ICUs and dying in hospitals.  Come on.  What has happened in our hospitals the past year hasn't happened with respect to the flu in a century (outside of an occasional periodic, localized serious flu outbreak...and even then, nowhere near the fatality count in that hospital).  COVID is a more widespread illness, that causes more broad "big" harm than the flu does.  

And while yes, it is most deadly for old people (as is the flu), it's serious injury rate (long-term lung and heart injury) is significantly higher for all, including younger people (more people between 30-60 have died, and/or suffered "long COVID" than the flu hits that way).  And yes, the higher transmissibility of COVID is also a material part of how dangerous it is.  Two diseases, even if they had the exact same CFR, but one is twice as virulent, makes that disease twice as deadly.

Bottom line, we end up at the same place.  The flu kills around 50k Americans a year.  If we can get COVID to that level, we need to be willing to call that a win (and again, deaths are not the sole metric, but they are a workable benchmark).

I don't disagree.

My feelings are that cloth masks worn by asymptomatic people are a joke -- especially since the way most dumbasses wear and store them would render them ineffective even if they could work -- but you'd think Abbott removing a statewide mandate is the end of civilization.  We have other states, 15 of them, that do not have a state mask mandate.  They are fine.

The vaccine is the silver bullet and sell it as such so everyone will take it. I don't think anything else besides better therapeutics makes a shit on preventing hospitalizations or deaths.  Seems like most of the states with the strictest lockdowns have the worst results.

 

[Brisketexan 106951]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I don't disagree.

My feelings are that cloth masks worn by asymptomatic people are a joke -- especially since the way most dumbasses wear and store them would render them ineffective even if they could work -- but you'd think Abbott removing a statewide mandate is the end of civilization.  We have other states, 15 of them, that do not have a state mask mandate.  They are fine.

The vaccine is the silver bullet and sell it as such so everyone will take it. I don't think anything else besides better therapeutics makes a shit on preventing hospitalizations or deaths.  Seems like most of the states with the strictest lockdowns have the worst results.

 

I think the data is pretty clear that most masks....yes, worn correctly.....prevent the spread of droplets, which is the best mechanism to transmit a heavy viral load.  I wear a KN95, and have since pretty early on.  Over my nose and mouth.  I think that unquestionably prevents me spreading my nastiness to others.  The more people who do that, the better we are.

I think that uniform, proper wearing of good masks is a lot more important and effective than "lockdowns."  But the end point here is the same.  Our current measures (masks, social distancing) are just a firebreak, of limited effectiveness.  To get the fire under control -- get vaccines in arms.  And continue to develop therapeutics, of course -- people will still get sick, and the better we can treat them, the more we can knock the fire down.

If I were king, we'd still limit large, close gatherings for a time....but not a long time.  We'd still require wearing masks, and hell, I'd be in favor of the gov't procuring KN95 masks and distributing them.  But again, for a limited time.  Those are stopgaps, and my focus would be on getting shots in arms, and continued development of therapeutics.  And, once our case infection and hospitalization rate reach a level that is GENERALLY on par with what we'd see with respect to the flu (and I confess that I'd have to look at numbers to get a handle on exactly what that looks like, but the data is surely there), I'd normalize most everything.

[Cheeseweasel 26442]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

worn correctly

I think 1 out of 100 people I see in public wear them correctly.

[Brisketexan 106951]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I think 1 out of 100 people I see in public wear them correctly.

WHAT?????

I'm SHOCKED!

 

[GTX Horn 1725]

UT to continue requiring masks on campus

I haven’t been able to keep up with all the moving pieces but are most school districts doing the same or is that still TBD? I know all the Karens on my community FB are up in arms about how schools should drop mask requirements because it inhibits their child’s rights to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[BradInATX 9208]

36 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I don't disagree.

My feelings are that cloth masks worn by asymptomatic people are a joke -- especially since the way most dumbasses wear and store them would render them ineffective even if they could work -- but you'd think Abbott removing a statewide mandate is the end of civilization.  We have other states, 15 of them, that do not have a state mask mandate.  They are fine.

The vaccine is the silver bullet and sell it as such so everyone will take it. I don't think anything else besides better therapeutics makes a shit on preventing hospitalizations or deaths.  Seems like most of the states with the strictest lockdowns have the worst results.

 

 

Nobody is acting like it's the end of the world. The issue is, and let's avoid the "do masks work" argument, that it's just a stupid decision. What's the cost/benefit here? Opening restaurants and bars to 100%? There's a clear benefit to be had there. Saving business, getting the economy going. What's the cost benefit of removing the mask mandate? You've removed one of the most minor inconveniences in the world, at risk of killing people. Whatever you think that risk may be, from tiny to believing that removing mask mandates will cause some unneeded deaths, it's a terrible decision. There is nothing gained. It's a political move. You know it, I know it, we all know it. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by BradInATX

[Brisketexan 106951]

6 minutes ago, GTX Horn said:

UT to continue requiring masks on campus

I haven’t been able to keep up with all the moving pieces but are most school districts doing the same or is that still TBD? I know all the Karens on my community FB are up in arms about how schools should drop mask requirements because it inhibits their child’s rights to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

That's also what I don't get.  It's a fucking MASK.  I get it, all things considered, it's easier not to have to worry about wearing one.  If it's not a good mask, it can get a little stuffy in there.  But that's it.

But I have to wear a necktie every time I appear in court.  I'd rather not.  They are constricting and a hassle.  Yet that's been the standard for professional wear for literally centuries in the western world.  It's not a big fucking deal.  The court is not oppressing me by making me wear a tie.  Get the fuck over it.

[Poe It Up 126]

I took my son to his first T-ball practice yesterday and was shooting the shit with other dads and laughing at the general chaos that ensues when 4 years olds are swinging baseball bats. Then the topic of the mask mandate came up. The group suddenly became giddy that we are now free and each shared stories of how they bravely ventured maskless into stores, daring others to say anything. I don’t understand how putting others at risk is a badge of honor. 
 

 

[Brisketexan 106951]

14 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

I took my son to his first T-ball practice yesterday and was shooting the shit with other dads and laughing at the general chaos that ensues when 4 years olds are swinging baseball bats. Then the topic of the mask mandate came up. The group suddenly became giddy that we are now free and each shared stories of how they bravely ventured maskless into stores, daring others to say anything. I don’t understand how putting others at risk is a badge of honor. 
 

 

Again....I don't fucking get it.  My dick has killed far fewer people than the virus has....yet every public establishment requires me to keep it under wraps when I'm inside (trust me, Best Buy gets VERY perturbed when you just whip it out while browsing the gas cooktops).  Nobody has bitched about that rule.  Like, ever.  It's no big deal to 1) keep my dick in my pants and 2) wear a mask while I'm inside a public establishment.  It's a nothing.  People are being assholes because that makes them feel better about themselves and their shitty lives.  That's it.

[gmr548 16702]

How many flu deaths would we have if we tested 400 million for the flu in 10 months and categorized everyone who had a positive result who dies within 60 days from a positive result or presumed positive for flu as a flu death?
I am not sure I trust the 500,000 to 80,000 is apples to apples.  We would have a lot more flu deaths if it were.
This is a sidetrack. I absolutely believe Covid is dangerous for older people. The flu doesn't wipe out nursing homes like Covid does.  Nor does it spread as easy as Covid. Someone in my house gets the flu probably once a year.  We never transmit it to each other.  Wife got Covid from her sister around New Years, and all 4 of us had it despite being as careful as one can be when living together.
 

It'll never happen.  Covid 19 is Biden's cash cow.  It will be milked.

Man, thread was on a good run of reasonable agreement there for a little while, and y’all had to go aggy it up.

[Message Board User 12408]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

but you'd think Abbott removing a statewide mandate is the end of civilization. 

Exactly.  In the end, I don't think that statewide mandates made a shit even though masks when worn correctly do reduce the spread of Covid (and the data from the states bore this out- that while masks are effective, statewide mask mandates are not).

People who were all "fuck your masks" before this week probably weren't faithfully following mask-wearing guidelines anyway.  Now they can at least stop pretending.

And people who were dutifully wearing masks correctly before this week will probably continue to wear their masks around others for the foreseeable future after March 10.

I get a new KN 95 every day at work (been working in person throughout the pandemic) so I've got a shitload in my car so I'll continue to wear masks into grocery stores as it's just not a big deal for me...mask mandate or not.

 

[Cheeseweasel 26442]

22 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

I took my son to his first T-ball practice yesterday and was shooting the shit with other dads and laughing at the general chaos that ensues when 4 years olds are swinging baseball bats. Then the topic of the mask mandate came up. The group suddenly became giddy that we are now free and each shared stories of how they bravely ventured maskless into stores, daring others to say anything. I don’t understand how putting others at risk is a badge of honor. 
 

 

These guys yell at the umps, don't they.

[GTX Horn 1725]

27 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Again....I don't fucking get it.  My dick has killed far fewer people than the virus has....yet every public establishment requires me to keep it under wraps when I'm inside (trust me, Best Buy gets VERY perturbed when you just whip it out while browsing the gas cooktops).  Nobody has bitched about that rule.  Like, ever.  It's no big deal to 1) keep my dick in my pants and 2) wear a mask while I'm inside a public establishment.  It's a nothing.  People are being assholes because that makes them feel better about themselves and their shitty lives.  That's it.

I shit you not, I had someone try to tell me the other day that wearing masks is dangerous for people with preexisting medical conditions. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say the risk of not wearing a mask and contracting Covid is much more dangerous for people with preexisting conditions than simply wearing a mask in public.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

48 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

I took my son to his first T-ball practice yesterday and was shooting the shit with other dads and laughing at the general chaos that ensues when 4 years olds are swinging baseball bats. Then the topic of the mask mandate came up. The group suddenly became giddy that we are now free and each shared stories of how they bravely ventured maskless into stores, daring others to say anything. I don’t understand how putting others at risk is a badge of honor. 
 

 

My kid plays at Post Oak LL.  No masks.  I mean it is outdoors and not all that crowded.

My nephew plays at West U LL. Karen moms will snap your photo and tag league officials if you aren't masked up outside.  They don't let the kids high 5 after great plays. My friend is a coach and apparently there are constant league official emails to coaches telling them to not let the kids have any physical contact. It's stupid.

I favor the Post Oak approach.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

virus gonna virus

good stuff, johnny.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

[Johnny Sack 8397]

7 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

good stuff, johnny.

Comparing death rates in states that locked down hardcore to ones that did not, virus is going to virus is a reasonable conclusion.  And the former did not wreck as many lives financially.

[BradInATX 9208]

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7006e2.htm

Regression analysis demonstrated that weekly hospitalization growth rates declined by 2.9 percentage points (95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.3–5.5) among adults aged 40–64 years during the first 2 weeks after implementing statewide mask mandates. After mask mandates had been implemented for ≥3 weeks, hospitalization growth rates declined by start highlight5.6end highlight percentage points among persons aged 18–39 years (95% CI = start highlight0.9end highlight–10.4) and those aged 40–64 years (95% CI = start highlight1.0end highlight–10.2). Statewide mask mandates might be associated with reductions in SARS-CoV-2 transmission and might contribute to reductions in COVID-19 hospitalization growth rates, compared with growth rates during <4 weeks before implementation of the mandate and the implementation week. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

18 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7006e2.htm

Regression analysis demonstrated that weekly hospitalization growth rates declined by 2.9 percentage points (95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.3–5.5) among adults aged 40–64 years during the first 2 weeks after implementing statewide mask mandates. After mask mandates had been implemented for ≥3 weeks, hospitalization growth rates declined by start highlight5.6end highlight percentage points among persons aged 18–39 years (95% CI = start highlight0.9end highlight–10.4) and those aged 40–64 years (95% CI = start highlight1.0end highlight–10.2). Statewide mask mandates might be associated with reductions in SARS-CoV-2 transmission and might contribute to reductions in COVID-19 hospitalization growth rates, compared with growth rates during <4 weeks before implementation of the mandate and the implementation week. 

Might huh?  I might get blown by Christy Turlington tonight.

[BradInATX 9208]

Might huh?  I might get blown by Christy Turlington tonight.

Gravity is still a "theory" too. Read the details. 95% CI on that sample size is very strong.

Scientists don't declare things as factual until they're 100% sure it's correct. I know that's off-putting for some.

[workswithseed 2204]

2 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I think 1 out of 100 people I see in public wear them correctly.

I mean you also have to make sure you don't touch them, and wear a new on every time as well.

[Anastasis 23723]

Took the boys down to Sandeez Burger Hut for the Friday car show.  Mask wearing at previous have been inconsistent, but generally acceptable given that there are a lot of people eating.  Most of the people walking around looking at the cars woudl wear their masks with a few exceptions, which is good cause about 3/4 of the guys there look to be 60+.  Everything was flipped today. We were the exception wearing masks, maybe three or four others. Everything related to mask usage is going to unwind pretty quickly, and I don't think that business are going to be positioned to deal with the issue if they want to require masks. 

[babysdaddy 2731]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Again....I don't fucking get it.  My dick has killed far fewer people than the virus has....yet every public establishment requires me to keep it under wraps when I'm inside (trust me, Best Buy gets VERY perturbed when you just whip it out while browsing the gas cooktops).  Nobody has bitched about that rule.  Like, ever.  It's no big deal to 1) keep my dick in my pants and 2) wear a mask while I'm inside a public establishment.  It's a nothing.  People are being assholes because that makes them feel better about themselves and their shitty lives.  That's it.

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11860]

4 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Exactly.  In the end, I don't think that statewide mandates made a shit even though masks when worn correctly do reduce the spread of Covid (and the data from the states bore this out- that while masks are effective, statewide mask mandates are not).

People who were all "fuck your masks" before this week probably weren't faithfully following mask-wearing guidelines anyway.  Now they can at least stop pretending.

And people who were dutifully wearing masks correctly before this week will probably continue to wear their masks around others for the foreseeable future after March 10.

I get a new KN 95 every day at work (been working in person throughout the pandemic) so I've got a shitload in my car so I'll continue to wear masks into grocery stores as it's just not a big deal for me...mask mandate or not.

 

I do have to ask, not in regard to this post specifically, but what is your deal with teachers and schools?  You have seemed to be singulary focused on that for quite some time.  Do you have a special needs kid, or are you just hell bent against teacher unions?  Your focus on operating school as normal despite the rest of society seems a bit odd. I’m curious as to why that is.

[Message Board User 12408]

3 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

but what is your deal with teachers and schools?

Maybe I'm an army of one on this, but when the book is written on this pandemic by the various professions (economists, epidemiologists, historians, whatever) I think the closing of the schools will be one of the, if not THE most damaging policy decision of the entire pandemic.  It is unconscionable that there are students (mostly poor and of color) that are going to be out of the classroom for over a year...and you are already hearing whispers that many of these states and school districts are not going to re-open in the fall since cases aren't at zero.  Even Nicholas Kristof, one of the most left-wing columnists for the NYT, recently wrote an article suggesting that this year (and counting) lost for kids will affect them throughout their lives, resulting in about a 3% loss of income throughout their life for each student who hasn't been in a classroom per year.  Not sure how they came up with that number, but it seems plausible to me.

I don't have a personal stake in this as I had already yanked my kids from public school before the pandemic and they have been thriving in charter school (top of their class) the last couple years, attending school M-F this year since Labor Day.  It's a different situation for every family, but I know that I had zero hesitation in sending my two back in-person full time (I was given an online option, which I laughed at).

Perhaps I'm too strident and my heels are dug in too much regarding this issue - and if that's the case, the ignore button is an easy solution so that you and anyone else offended by my posts won't have to put up with them.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11860]

31 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Maybe I'm an army of one on this, but when the book is written on this pandemic by the various professions (economists, epidemiologists, historians, whatever) I think the closing of the schools will be one of the, if not THE most damaging policy decision of the entire pandemic.  It is unconscionable that there are students (mostly poor and of color) that are going to be out of the classroom for over a year...and you are already hearing whispers that many of these states and school districts are not going to re-open in the fall since cases aren't at zero.  Even Nicholas Kristof, one of the most left-wing columnists for the NYT, recently wrote an article suggesting that this year (and counting) lost for kids will affect them throughout their lives, resulting in about a 3% loss of income throughout their life for each student who hasn't been in a classroom per year.  Not sure how they came up with that number, but it seems plausible to me.

I don't have a personal stake in this as I had already yanked my kids from public school before the pandemic and they have been thriving in charter school (top of their class) the last couple years, attending school M-F this year since Labor Day.  It's a different situation for every family, but I know that I had zero hesitation in sending my two back in-person full time (I was given an online option, which I laughed at).

Perhaps I'm too strident and my heels are dug in too much regarding this issue - and if that's the case, the ignore button is an easy solution so that you and anyone else offended by my posts won't have to put up with them.

Thanks for the honest answer.  I don’t have kids in the public school system either, although I have one still in college that we pay about $30k per semester for virtual lol, should have sent him to Harvard.  

I don’t disagree with a lot of your takes, like I said it just helps to hear where various posters are coming from.  

[dcar00 14976]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Maybe I'm an army of one on this, but when the book is written on this pandemic by the various professions (economists, epidemiologists, historians, whatever) I think the closing of the schools will be one of the, if not THE most damaging policy decision of the entire pandemic.  It is unconscionable that there are students (mostly poor and of color) that are going to be out of the classroom for over a year...and you are already hearing whispers that many of these states and school districts are not going to re-open in the fall since cases aren't at zero.  Even Nicholas Kristof, one of the most left-wing columnists for the NYT, recently wrote an article suggesting that this year (and counting) lost for kids will affect them throughout their lives, resulting in about a 3% loss of income throughout their life for each student who hasn't been in a classroom per year.  Not sure how they came up with that number, but it seems plausible to me.

I don't have a personal stake in this as I had already yanked my kids from public school before the pandemic and they have been thriving in charter school (top of their class) the last couple years, attending school M-F this year since Labor Day.  It's a different situation for every family, but I know that I had zero hesitation in sending my two back in-person full time (I was given an online option, which I laughed at).

Perhaps I'm too strident and my heels are dug in too much regarding this issue - and if that's the case, the ignore button is an easy solution so that you and anyone else offended by my posts won't have to put up with them.

I count myself very lucky that my son is already a junior in college and daughter graduate HS last spring.  I'd definitely be pretty upset if I had a 4th through 9th or 10th grader.    I get last spring for sure, this spring not so much.   did your private school update their air circulation system?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

What has been done to kids in the guise of protecting them is criminal.  

[Message Board User 12408]

6 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

I count myself very lucky that my son is already a junior in college and daughter graduate HS last spring.  I'd definitely be pretty upset if I had a 4th through 9th or 10th grader.    I get last spring for sure, this spring not so much.   did your private school update their air circulation system?

Nope. 

[GRHorn 105]

1 hour ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Thanks for the honest answer.  I don’t have kids in the public school system either, although I have one still in college that we pay about $30k per semester for virtual lol, should have sent him to Harvard.  

I don’t disagree with a lot of your takes, like I said it just helps to hear where various posters are coming from.  

You didn’t ask me, but as one of the complainers here I would say that it’s the one glaring hole left in our response to the pandemic. It hurts kids directly which is bullshit and it mostly has a political basis for still happening. 
 

I honestly hadn’t thought a ton about it until a couple months ago when I talked to an old friend in Olympia, Washington where his kids were still given no option. They’ve been doing demonstrations and protests to no avail. Frustrating to hear that it’s still dragging on. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11860]

3 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

You didn’t ask me, but as one of the complainers here I would say that it’s the one glaring hole left in our response to the pandemic. It hurts kids directly which is bullshit and it mostly has a political basis for still happening. 
 

I honestly hadn’t thought a ton about it until a couple months ago when I talked to an old friend in Olympia, Washington where his kids were still given no option. They’ve been doing demonstrations and protests to no avail. Frustrating to hear that it’s still dragging on. 

Why do you think it has a political reason?  Why would teachers espouse a political position rather than a scientific one?  That’s what baffles me.  Why are all these teachers bucking the system?  

[GRHorn 105]

9 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Why do you think it has a political reason?  Why would teachers espouse a political position rather than a scientific one?  That’s what baffles me.  Why are all these teachers bucking the system?  

Idk why they aren’t following the science and doing their job to the fullest. This tweet was linked in another thread. Spells out expert opinion pretty clearly. 

I think this tweet from Sf makes explains why it’s political at least in CA

 

I think that’s a bit of a leap but a teacher’s strike is political. The only cover for teachers like this is from POTUS. 

[Guest Lobo]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

What has been done to kids in the guise of protecting them is criminal.  

Right up there with bullet proof backpacks, active shooter drills, bulletproof windows, drop-bar classroom doors, and how to position your 7-year old body to take the bullet in the legs instead of the head.  That "in the guise of protecting them" isn't criminal though right?  But plexiglass dividers and Disney 'Frozen' masks, that's beyond the pale, right?  Whoah, I shudder to think.  

[Ridingtosunset 129]

53 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Right up there with bullet proof backpacks, active shooter drills, bulletproof windows, drop-bar classroom doors, and how to position your 7-year old body to take the bullet in the legs instead of the head.  That "in the guise of protecting them" isn't criminal though right?  But plexiglass dividers and Disney 'Frozen' masks, that's beyond the pale, right?  Whoah, I shudder to think.  

I don't think that's what he said...

[Guest Lobo]

The bullshit, largely ineffective measures we've put kids through to make them, and more importantly their parents, feel safe during Covid-19 is somewhat criminal?  Isn't that what he's saying?  

[utee94 16091]

3 hours ago, dcar00 said:

I count myself very lucky that my son is already a junior in college and daughter graduate HS last spring.  I'd definitely be pretty upset if I had a 4th through 9th or 10th grader.    I get last spring for sure, this spring not so much.   did your private school update their air circulation system?

I have two that fall in this range in public schools in Leander ISD.  They've been in-person since September, so I'm not upset.   They're thriving, it's so much better for them than online and they know it, they pretty much begged to be back in-person.

Even the 11yo 5th grader who sneaked a ton of time on fortnite when he was online-only last spring.  He knew it was rotting his brain and actively campaigned for being back in-person as soon as it was possible.

 

[Enchubben 5600]

13 hours ago, BradInATX said:

This is a situation where I agree with several of the guys who have generally been on the other side of this as me for the past year. I thought the goal was getting hospitalizations and deaths to a normal level. I don't give a fuck about cases. This feels like moving the goalposts which is counterproductive to what Fauci is trying to do.

[Homercles 10206]

I agree on the school bit, a properly-precautioned learning environment on campus has pretty much shown little risk to the educators and staff when it’s done right.  Almost all the cases at my oldest (1st grade) school have been proven to come from teachers doing dumb shit like going to NO and partying maskless as evidenced by their insta feeds...or from social gatherings outside of the district control.  
 

Im on the record here, despite being married to a counselor, as having a bit of bias regarding SOME teachers seemingly trying to take advantage of the current situation by advocating for extra ‘asynchronous days’ that burden parents so they can ‘plan’ (then why have one two weeks before the end of the year?) or petitioning some states/districts to require fully virtual all of NEXT year.  It’s got to be really hard to balance class work for both virtual and campus students, along with being underpaid and with crappy health coverage...even if it seems every other week is a long weekend, Christmas or spring break, or an asynchronous day, 2.5 months off for summer, etc   

So I’m with MBU on this, but we are not going to drive any action by railing against it here...and nothing is going to change until summer.  I think the J&J step up in rollout is huge and should (so long as the dumbass anti-vax pukes not spread too much) enable more evidence for the ‘open all schools’ crowd to win before the next school year starts.  We gotta be patient.  
 

PS:  if you can’t tell all the time off in the spring really grinds my gears, compounded by having 10 straight days due to the ice storm and now an asynchronous day once a month...so I have my own agenda complaining about it here and not following my own advice that it’s pointless to bitch on Surly.  Maybe I’m just jealous I don’t have close to 4 months off every year.  

[Armybrat 41420]

9 hours ago, utee94 said:

I have two that fall in this range in public schools in Leander ISD.  They've been in-person since September, so I'm not upset.   They're thriving, it's so much better for them than online and they know it, they pretty much begged to be back in-person.

Even the 11yo 5th grader who sneaked a ton of time on fortnite when he was online-only last spring.  He knew it was rotting his brain and actively campaigned for being back in-person as soon as it was possible.

 

Sounds like my youngest grandsons... senior at Austin High and 5th grader at Zilker.

[Ridingtosunset 129]

1 hour ago, Homercles said:

I agree on the school bit, a properly-precautioned learning environment on campus has pretty much shown little risk to the educators and staff when it’s done right.  Almost all the cases at my oldest (1st grade) school have been proven to come from teachers doing dumb shit like going to NO and partying maskless as evidenced by their insta feeds...or from social gatherings outside of the district control.  
 

Im on the record here, despite being married to a counselor, as having a bit of bias regarding SOME teachers seemingly trying to take advantage of the current situation by advocating for extra ‘asynchronous days’ that burden parents so they can ‘plan’ (then why have one two weeks before the end of the year?) or petitioning some states/districts to require fully virtual all of NEXT year.  It’s got to be really hard to balance class work for both virtual and campus students, along with being underpaid and with crappy health coverage...even if it seems every other week is a long weekend, Christmas or spring break, or an asynchronous day, 2.5 months off for summer, etc   

So I’m with MBU on this, but we are not going to drive any action by railing against it here...and nothing is going to change until summer.  I think the J&J step up in rollout is huge and should (so long as the dumbass anti-vax pukes not spread too much) enable more evidence for the ‘open all schools’ crowd to win before the next school year starts.  We gotta be patient.  
 

PS:  if you can’t tell all the time off in the spring really grinds my gears, compounded by having 10 straight days due to the ice storm and now an asynchronous day once a month...so I have my own agenda complaining about it here and not following my own advice that it’s pointless to bitch on Surly.  Maybe I’m just jealous I don’t have close to 4 months off every year.  

This is the most frustrating thing to me in all of this. Common sense tells us this doing irreparable harm to our kids. Educationally and psychologically. And it disproportionately affects the population most at risk. 

[Message Board User 12408]

16 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Thanks for the honest answer.  I don’t have kids in the public school system either, although I have one still in college that we pay about $30k per semester for virtual lol, should have sent him to Harvard.  

I don’t disagree with a lot of your takes, like I said it just helps to hear where various posters are coming from.  

I tell ya what - I'll give the board a break and do a self-ban on posting anything relating to schools or teachers unions for a few weeks.  I can take a hint.  😄

But in case anyone is interested in following the saga of schools re-opening across the country and the folly of hybrid and virtual schooling, some good twitter follows are:

Pradheep J. Shanker (@Neoavatara) / Twitter

Alec MacGillis (@AlecMacGillis) / Twitter

David Zweig (@davidzweig) / Twitter

Rory Cooper (@rorycooper) / Twitter

 

[Eskimohorn 5682]

How many flu deaths would we have if we tested 400 million for the flu in 10 months and categorized everyone who had a positive result who dies within 60 days from a positive result or presumed positive for flu as a flu death?
I am not sure I trust the 500,000 to 80,000 is apples to apples.  We would have a lot more flu deaths if it were.
This is a sidetrack. I absolutely believe Covid is dangerous for older people. The flu doesn't wipe out nursing homes like Covid does.  Nor does it spread as easy as Covid. Someone in my house gets the flu probably once a year.  We never transmit it to each other.  Wife got Covid from her sister around New Years, and all 4 of us had it despite being as careful as one can be when living together.
 

Excess deaths prove you wrong. And this is with massive isolation, masking, and mitigation for a year.

[Homercles 10206]

9 minutes ago, Ridingtosunset said:

This is the most frustrating thing to me in all of this. Common sense tells us this doing irreparable harm to our kids. Educationally and psychologically. And it disproportionately affects the population most at risk. 

I think that’ll vary by age as well.  My 4yo has been in daycare with no adjustments outside of the teachers are masked and parents can’t go into the building.  My 7yo has shown no ill effects by wearing a mask and having several of his classmates go full remote this year.  Of course time will tell as they get older but I’m hoping this ends up affecting just one academic year. 
 

Id expect older kids to have a harder time, and of course it’ll vary by the kiddo/personality/disabilities as well.  I’m really glad my wife has been an elementary educator her whole career and has been taking the 1st grader in with her.  

[Surly Bevo 25759]

Teachers are likely no different than every other group of employees that have now gotten to "work from home" for a year.  They realize it's not as grinding, they have more flexibility and some of the flat lazy ones (which exist in every group of workers) have realized that they can really mail it in.  That group especially is going to do their damndest to keep the good times rolling.   The difference is their decisions are more in the public eye vs a lot of other employee groups in other industries.   I and plenty of friends in  leadership positions at lots of various organizations across different industries have observed the push to "let's just keep this like it is" from certain sections of our employee base.  It isn't about science, or fear for the vast majority of them.  It's "hey I kind of like this shit"

Edit-and that is certainly not to say all or even the majority of folks think this way about their jobs.  But the group that does is bigger than a breadbox. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Surly Bevo

[Ridingtosunset 129]

My 11 year old has taken it in stride, but she's an abnormally happy kid. She has friends however that its noticeably affected their behavior. Happy to hear yours are doing well. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

It’s not hurting our demographic as much as it is poor kids.  
 

My kids spent much of quarantine on a 12000 acre ranch in south Texas.   There they can play with their 12 cousins or we go to our other ranch near Houston or plenty of other amazing places with their friends vacation places.  They’re fine. Plus we are private and have been in school since first week of September.  Been doing sleepovers and socializing with others since may
 

Three million kids have dropped off school radars and have abandoned learning.  Plenty others rely on school for food or to be the first and only reporter of abuse. 
 

There was no reason not to have schools open in September.  

Edited March 6, 2021 by Johnny Sack

[Homercles 10206]

1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

Teachers are likely no different than every other group of employees that have now gotten to "work from home" for a year.  They realize it's not as grinding, they have more flexibility and some of the flat lazy ones (which exist in every group of workers) have realized that they can really mail it in.  That group especially is going to do their damndest to keep the good times rolling.   The difference is their decisions are more in the public eye vs a lot of other employee groups in other industries.   I and plenty of friends in  leadership positions at lots of various organizations across different industries have observed the push to "let's just keep this like it is" from certain sections of our employee base.  It isn't about science, or fear for the vast majority of them.  It's "hey I kind of like this shit"

Edit-and that is certainly not to say all or even the majority of folks think this way about their jobs.  But the group that does is bigger than a breadbox. 

There’s a lot of truth to this and both being married into the elementary education world + having a kid working through it, my sample size is not necessarily representative of the world at large.  Also I’ve worked from home on a semi-regular basis for years, either when I had no necessity via meetings to be there or just not feeling like wasting the hour of commute time. 
 

But I’m not managing small children for my job, which I could never do...I’m just not wired that way and admire those who are.  I think that there some teachers who enjoy educating young ones but not managing them in a group setting.  So yes they may have gotten a taste of the best-of-both-worlds wherein they can teach + get paid while not having to deal with children directly, and are trying to keep it that way. 
 

My problem is both professional and selfish...I am not nearly as productive at work when my 1st grader needs help/meals/bored/etc + I recharge my parenting batteries during the week by having a calm, quiet house where I’m not hearing ‘daddy’ or ‘I want’ every few minutes.  
 

Besides there are no work hours for me anymore...I dabble during the weekend, get stuff done in the evenings, or whatever else is necessary...so I get unnaturally pissy when I hear teachers complain about the hours or grading homework at the elementary level, when the kids are dismissed at 3p + 4-days off for Presidents’ Day + regular staff days + asynchronous days, etc because I have to take up the slack figuring out how I can get my work done while managing my kiddos.  

Edited March 6, 2021 by Homercles