Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[CHIEF 5080]

Is it farfetched to think that a dictatorial, overpopulated country with little regard for human life would possibly be working with a virus that is the most lethal in the elderly, people with co-morbidities and the part of the population immunocompromised? You know, the ones that are probably considered a financial drain on their economy? I mean they reportedly welded doors shut in Wuhan.

CHIEF

[bolverk 29671]

7 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

I'm sorry sir, but nowadays we no longer accept nuance. People are either all good or all bad. No in between. 

Your compliance is appreciated.

No, this is Surly. We never jump to conclusions before considering complex situations nor allow our impatience to override the need to get at whatever the truth might be as revealed by necessary research or investigations which could take years to fully answer.

3 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

Dude. It escaped from a lab. Get the fuck over it already. 

 

[GRHorn 105]

22 minutes ago, bolverk said:

No, this is Surly. We never jump to conclusions before considering complex situations nor allow our impatience to override the need to get at whatever the truth might be as revealed by necessary research or investigations which could take years to fully answer.

 

Tbf the investigation into if Covid was bioengineered should’ve been quick and straightforward.

[Anastasis 23469]

I don’t think it was bioengineered but think it likely that a sample escaped as result of negligence at the lab. These are two very different things. 

[CHIEF 5080]

9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I don’t think it was bioengineered but think it likely that a sample escaped as result of negligence at the lab. These are two very different things. 

Listen the Rogan video from 11:15-12:35. 

CHIEF

Edited March 12, 2021 by CHIEF
There was more

[bolverk 29671]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I don’t think it was bioengineered but think it likely that a sample escaped as result of negligence at the lab. These are two very different things. 

I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility but, as of now, the majority of scientists and researchers looking into it believe that it's unlikely to have originated in a lab. It sucks that we may never know conclusively, but I'm positive uncovering the origination of the virus will be a major focal point of investigation for the coming years if not decades.

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility but, as of now, the majority of scientists and researchers looking into it believe that it's unlikely to have originated in a lab. It sucks that we may never know conclusively, but I'm positive uncovering the origination of the virus will be a major focal point of investigation for the coming years if not decades.

Yup. You can’t solve a problem until you first identify what the problem is. China has consistently been less than forthcoming about it which raises red flags. We pretty much know for a fact it started there, we just don’t know exactly where or how and the Chinese government has not been helpful. Not a surprise.

[blacklab 11928]

4 hours ago, gmr548 said:

Good lord. I’m not unwilling to consider evidence either way. I pointed out that saying the idea that this came about naturally is absurd, is in itself absurd. I don’t see what this has to do with Trump. Whether it came from a bat, a lab, or South Austin’s mom, Trump didn’t do anything to bring it about. It coming from a lab wouldn’t make him look any better than it coming naturally makes him look bad, which is to say it wouldn’t be relevant. You’re forcing this one here.

It did not come from me, I assure you.

[Anastasis 23469]

23 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility but, as of now, the majority of scientists and researchers looking into it believe that it's unlikely to have originated in a lab. It sucks that we may never know conclusively, but I'm positive uncovering the origination of the virus will be a major focal point of investigation for the coming years if not decades.

What does "originated in a lab" mean exactly? That is kinda the rub. And people skirt the real issues with imprecise terminology. 

 

If "originated in a lab" means that this specific coronavirus was bioengineered via gain of function research and released, deliberately or not, that is one thing.

 

It's a completely separate thing to consider that "originated from a lab" may refer to the fact that coronavirus (pl whatever) were being collected from across china, studied, and concentrated in one of the only labs able to conduct such research, and it just so happens that the most significant pandemic of the last hundred or so years just coincidently originated precisely a throw across the river from where that lab resides. Maybe also consider that the safety procedures at that lab were throwing up red flags, and I think that you will find that the majority of scientists and researchers looking into it have a slightly different opinion. 

 

[workswithseed 2103]

23 minutes ago, blacklab said:

It did not come from me, I assure you.

No duh, it was from yellowlab.

[staboner 4969]

30 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Yup. You can’t solve a problem until you first identify what the problem is. China has consistently been less than forthcoming about it which raises red flags. We pretty much know for a fact it started there, we just don’t know exactly where or how and the Chinese government has not been helpful. Not a surprise.

and of course, China would be less than forthcoming no matter what the fucking story is with the virus. Don't let the usual funboys leaping all over themselves in the DT fool you. We may never know how this fucking happened but no doubt I find it a very scary look into the near future for weaponised shit like this. If they didn't do it on purpose, or it escaped a lab, or a fucking bat did it - regardless - its certainly a (planned of unplanned) test run of some type for bioterrorism the likes we have not seen before in modern times.

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by staboner

[Anastasis 23469]

4 minutes ago, staboner said:

We may never know how this fucking happened but no doubt I find it a very scary look into the near future for weaponised shit like this. If they didn't do it on purpose, or it escaped a lab, or a fucking bat did it - regardless - its certainly a (planned of unplanned) test run of some type for bioterrorism the likes we have not seen before in modern times.

Is this going to replace the "no nuke friday" bit?  Cause I am down with that. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

11 minutes ago, staboner said:

and of course, China would be less than forthcoming no matter what the fucking story is with the virus. Don't let the usual funboys leaping all over themselves in the DT fool you. We may never know how this fucking happened but no doubt I find it a very scary look into the near future for weaponised shit like this. If they didn't do it on purpose, or it escaped a lab, or a fucking bat did it - regardless - its certainly a test run of some type for bioterrorism the likes we have not seen before in modern times.

 

It’s precisely what might happen in an authoritarian state with regulations or lack of that favor the rulers instead of the populace.  Exactly what we’re trying to avoid here.

[Anastasis 23469]

1 hour ago, CHIEF said:

Listen the Rogan video from 11:15-12:35. 

CHIEF

I watched it.  The virologist's have a pretty strong argument regarding the gene sequence being compatible with natural origins.  I think it most likely that it escaped from the lab, but was not synthesized in the lab. But then we get into navel gazing over what "originated from" mean. 

[CHIEF 5080]

39 minutes ago, staboner said:

and of course, China would be less than forthcoming no matter what the fucking story is with the virus. Don't let the usual funboys leaping all over themselves in the DT fool you. We may never know how this fucking happened but no doubt I find it a very scary look into the near future for weaponised shit like this. If they didn't do it on purpose, or it escaped a lab, or a fucking bat did it - regardless - its certainly a (planned of unplanned) test run of some type for bioterrorism the likes we have not seen before in modern times.

 

What better way to become a World Reserve Currency.? Ruin the economies of your competitors, and you are the only country that can afford to stockpile commodities, precious metals, and consumables. Why stockpile these items unless you think you are about to do something that will piss the producing countries off? You are poised to make a run at retaking Taiwan, and extend your territories in the Northern Indian Subcontinent. What deeply indebted country is going to stop you? Wars are expensive. 

CHIEF

Edited March 12, 2021 by CHIEF

[Guest Lobo]

Kinda hard to become the primary global reserve currency when the world can barely trade your notes.  

They're rapid naval buildup as been noteworthy though.  He who controls the sea-lanes, controls the globe's reserve currency.  Been that way for 500 years.  

Neither Trump nor Biden knew what the fuck they were doing with regard to China.  Listen to the experts.  

[CHIEF 5080]

11 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Kinda hard to become the primary global reserve currency when the world can barely trade your notes.  

They're rapid naval buildup as been noteworthy though.  He who controls the sea-lanes, controls the globe's reserve currency.  Been that way for 500 years.  

Neither Trump nor Biden knew what the fuck they were doing with regard to China.  Listen to the experts.  

'A", not "The", they just want a seat at the table, and more influence. They don't want the Big Dogs contesting their military actions. They are stockpiling to provide for the population when every other country in the World puts an embargo on them. However, they have positioned themselves as well as possible in the supply chain. It's gonna be next to impossible to cut them off entirely.

They plot, we argue over Harry and Meghan. 

CHIEF

[Don Johnson 4753]

Lol

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Don Johnson

[InkaUtexas 25912]

26 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Kinda hard to become the primary global reserve currency when the world can barely trade your notes.  

They're rapid naval buildup as been noteworthy though.  He who controls the sea-lanes, controls the globe's reserve currency.  Been that way for 500 years.  

Neither Trump nor Biden knew what the fuck they were doing with regard to China.  Listen to the experts.  

China has a few weak points. One major reason for their continued support for Burma is it reduces their risks needing the Malacca Strait. Shut that down and their shipping (oil, raw resources) is fucked. 

[Hate 20108]

8 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Lol

 

Fuck that. 

[GRHorn 105]

8 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Lol

 

Thank you Mr President. I’ll return to my bunker and await your final clearance to congregate. 

[Don Johnson 4753]

6 minutes ago, Hate said:

Fuck that. 

Exactly. Small backyard gatherings are what we did for the past year. Not what we do in the 7th month of vaccinations.  If you haven’t gotten vaccinated by July 4th, it’s either by choice or you aren’t the type that does anything anyway.  

Edited March 12, 2021 by Don Johnson

[Telegraph_it 3357]

1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

Thank you Mr President. I’ll return to my bunker and await your final clearance to congregate. 

[bolverk 29671]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

What does "originated in a lab" mean exactly? That is kinda the rub. And people skirt the real issues with imprecise terminology. 

 

If "originated in a lab" means that this specific coronavirus was bioengineered via gain of function research and released, deliberately or not, that is one thing.

 

It's a completely separate thing to consider that "originated from a lab" may refer to the fact that coronavirus (pl whatever) were being collected from across china, studied, and concentrated in one of the only labs able to conduct such research, and it just so happens that the most significant pandemic of the last hundred or so years just coincidently originated precisely a throw across the river from where that lab resides. Maybe also consider that the safety procedures at that lab were throwing up red flags, and I think that you will find that the majority of scientists and researchers looking into it have a slightly different opinion. 

 

I meant that [the outbreak of] the virus originated in a lab - not that it was necessarily bioengineered there. And it's true that, as of this moment, most of those who are tasked with studying this thing think lab(s) weren't the source. 

Quote

Marion Koopmans, who was also on the WHO-led team, said they considered numerous hypotheses for how the pandemic might have started, including the possibility of a laboratory accident.

Koopmans said the team visited the three laboratories closest to the Huanan market in Wuhan where the first cluster of human cases was found, and scrutinized their protocols, testing programs and research, among other issues.

“We concluded that it’s extremely unlikely that there was a lab incident,” she said.

https://apnews.com/article/pandemics-wildlife-animals-coronavirus-pandemic-wuhan-2060b421037ca224f9bf87f6c35f53bc

Quote

At the same time, scientists working on coronaviruses continue to unearth and report evidence to support the natural evolution and spillover of the virus from animals.

Dr. Garry said the possible scenarios described in the letter were that “the Wuhan Institute of Biology either had SARS-CoV-2 or something very close to it before the outbreak. And for whatever reason, some grand conspiracy, they just didn’t want to tell anybody about it.”

He said he continued to believe that a lab origin was “next to impossible.” He said, “We need to look in animals.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/04/health/covid-virus-origins.html

Dude, I'm not prepared (nor qualified) to say one way or the other and am unwilling to stake a claim on precisely where and how the virus outbreak started. What I am saying is that, right now, and it seems like it'll take a while to definitively determine its origin: "Expert says origins of pandemic could be known in few years"

Yeah, there's a lot of obstacles, including the Chinese government's intransigence, but I'll put my faith in the eggheads to figure this shit out. I think you would tend to agree with that based on something you said earlier in another thread:

The shit is going to take a while to sort out, which was the sole purpose of my having even made a post to begin with. If it was the result of incompetence or an intentional act, I'm fully prepared, willing, and able to lay the blame on the lab. At the same time, I completely agree that we can still lay the blame at their feet regardless. My personal opinion, which appears to be supported, is that it was result of them eating wild, weird shit not meant for consumption that's been cooped up in confined spaces.

Edited March 12, 2021 by bolverk

[GRHorn 105]

47 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Kinda hard to become the primary global reserve currency when the world can barely trade your notes.  

They're rapid naval buildup as been noteworthy though.  He who controls the sea-lanes, controls the globe's reserve currency.  Been that way for 500 years.  

Neither Trump nor Biden knew what the fuck they were doing with regard to China.  Listen to the experts.  

 

[CHIEF 5080]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

What does "originated in a lab" mean exactly? That is kinda the rub. And people skirt the real issues with imprecise terminology. 

 

If "originated in a lab" means that this specific coronavirus was bioengineered via gain of function research and released, deliberately or not, that is one thing.

 

It's a completely separate thing to consider that "originated from a lab" may refer to the fact that coronavirus (pl whatever) were being collected from across china, studied, and concentrated in one of the only labs able to conduct such research, and it just so happens that the most significant pandemic of the last hundred or so years just coincidently originated precisely a throw across the river from where that lab resides. Maybe also consider that the safety procedures at that lab were throwing up red flags, and I think that you will find that the majority of scientists and researchers looking into it have a slightly different opinion. 

 

China is right that it didn't originate in a lab. But I would call making the virus more virulent and making susceptibility in humans as bioengineering.

CHIEF

[Texas Jeff 1945]

28 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Lol

C'mon that was not his message.

He was encouraging people to go get vaccinated as soon as they are able to find an opportunity.  He set the vision that if we all do our part, we can celebrate the 4th of July with backyard gatherings.  He said that large scale gatherings may not be wise by then, but we would follow the science.

I'm paraphrasing but the message was go get vaxxed ASAP so that we can get back with friends and family and stop missing out on life.

[CHIEF 5080]

DP 

CHIEF

Edited March 12, 2021 by CHIEF

[Don Johnson 4753]

9 minutes ago, Texas Jeff said:

C'mon that was not his message.

He was encouraging people to go get vaccinated as soon as they are able to find an opportunity.  He set the vision that if we all do our part, we can celebrate the 4th of July with backyard gatherings.  He said that large scale gatherings may not be wise by then, but we would follow the science.

I'm paraphrasing but the message was go get vaxxed ASAP so that we can get back with friends and family and stop missing out on life.

That’s exactly what he said. In fact it sounds even worse on video. I don’t know why he thinks that will motivate people to get the vaccine. If you do, and all your family and friends do, you can gather in small groups?  Lol. 
 

 

[Guest Lobo]

30 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

 

I'll wait patiently for you to tell me whose fault that was.  

[EuroHorn 3263]

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

That’s exactly what he said. In fact it sounds even worse on video. I don’t know why he thinks that will motivate people to get the vaccine. If you do, and all your family and friends do, you can gather in small groups?  Lol. 
 
 

Sleepy realizes the Rangers are opening with 100% capacity ina couple of weeks right?

Who are the rangers?

What’s baseball?

Where am I

[Telegraph_it 3357]

10 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I'll wait patiently for you to tell me whose fault that was.  

The guy who crafted the virus in a lab... obviously. 

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, what ever happened to that guy?  Some say he was Strait, but into Malaccas! 

[Anastasis 23469]

53 minutes ago, bolverk said:

The shit is going to take a while to sort out

Well of course.

[Anastasis 23469]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

I meant that [the outbreak of] the virus originated in a lab - not that it was necessarily bioengineered there. And it's true that, as of this moment, most of those who are tasked with studying this thing think lab(s) weren't the source. 

Dude, I'm not prepared (nor qualified) to say one way or the other and am unwilling to stake a claim on precisely where and how the virus outbreak started. What I am saying is that, right now, and it seems like it'll take a while to definitively determine its origin: "Expert says origins of pandemic could be known in few years"

Yeah, there's a lot of obstacles, including the Chinese government's intransigence, but I'll put my faith in the eggheads to figure this shit out. I think you would tend to agree with that based on something you said earlier in another thread:

The shit is going to take a while to sort out, which was the sole purpose of my having even made a post to begin with. If it was the result of incompetence or an intentional act, I'm fully prepared, willing, and able to lay the blame on the lab. At the same time, I completely agree that we can still lay the blame at their feet regardless. My personal opinion, which appears to be supported, is that it was result of them eating wild, weird shit not meant for consumption that's been cooped up in confined spaces.

Dude.

[bolverk 29671]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Well of course.

Which was my point.

We don't know how or where it started other than the initial widespread outbreak among humans appears to have occurred in the Wuhan wet market. Anything else beyond that is mere speculation and making definitive statements otherwise like "it started in the lab," which prompted my initial post, is completely unfounded at this point.

Believe me, I want answers. I want to know the truth, because it's fucked up my last 12 months just as it has everyone else.

[Anastasis 23469]

40 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

That’s exactly what he said. In fact it sounds even worse on video. I don’t know why he thinks that will motivate people to get the vaccine. If you do, and all your family and friends do, you can gather in small groups?  Lol. 
 

 

 

 

[StruggleBus 3922]

nm 

Edited March 12, 2021 by StruggleBus
covid

[bolverk 29671]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Dude.

[Anastasis 23469]

2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Which was my point.

We don't know how or where it started other than the initial widespread outbreak among humans appears to have occurred in the Wuhan wet market. Anything else beyond that is mere speculation and making definitive statements otherwise like "it started in the lab," which prompted my initial post, is completely unfounded at this point.

Believe me, I want answers. I want to know the truth, because it's fucked up my last 12 months just as it has everyone else.

Come one man. Run it through a filter of likelihood. Divorce from all the political nonsense around the issue.  The most likely explanation for a novel viral pandemic emerging from the geographic center where these exact viruses were collected and the safety protocols were red flagged is clear cut. You have to contort to come to another conclusion.  

[GreenspointTexas 9600]

10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Come one man. Run it through a filter of likelihood. Divorce from all the political nonsense around the issue.  The most likely explanation for a novel viral pandemic emerging from the geographic center where these exact viruses were collected and the safety protocols were red flagged is clear cut. You have to contort to come to another conclusion.  

Occams razor

[Anastasis 23469]

1 minute ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Occams razor

Don't ballgame me motherfucker. 

[bolverk 29671]

I ain't contorting anything - I'm waiting.

There's no "politics" to this. China's government is to blame regardless, whether it be through a) not enforcing their ban on eating wild weird shit that's not fit for human consumption from a wet market, b) not having proper protocols to keep it in check in a lab, or c) intentionally (god forbid) unleashing the virus on themselves or the rest of the world.

As of this moment, I'm not staking a claim on anything. Again, the only reason I posted was to point out the dumbassery of a certain couple of posters who a) made a definitive statement and 2) attempted to call out others by pointing at the hypocrisy of others while saying that folks don't think in nuance.

Go back to my OP:

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by bolverk

[Anastasis 23469]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

I ain't contorting anything - I'm waiting.

I am with you.  Just please, friend, don't hold your breath in the process. 

[StruggleBus 3922]

You’ll never get the answer you’re “waiting a few years for.” 

[GRHorn 105]

57 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I'll wait patiently for you to tell me whose fault that was.  

Everyone’s? 
 

[bolverk 29671]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

I am with you.  Just please, friend, don't hold your breath in the process. 

I'm not.

1 minute ago, StruggleBus said:

You’ll never get the answer you’re “waiting a few years for.” 

We'll see.

One day, I hope we get some real answers, but I know where the ultimate blame lies. It's the "how" that's the only question.

[Hate 20108]

I'm just glad to hear that we are doing nuance and context again.

[lmao 178]

 

 

29 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I ain't contorting anything - I'm waiting.

There's no "politics" to this. China's government is to blame regardless, whether it be through a) not enforcing their ban on eating wild weird shit that's not fit for human consumption from a wet market, b) not having proper protocols to keep it in check in a lab, or c) intentionally (god forbid) unleashing the virus on themselves or the rest of the world.

As of this moment, I'm not staking a claim on anything. Again, the only reason I posted was to point out the dumbassery of a certain couple of posters who a) made a definitive statement and 2) attempted to call out others by pointing at the hypocrisy of others while saying that folks don't think in nuance.

Go back to my OP:

 

Can't come from a lab if you kill the scientists, journalists, have the military take over said lab, bar investigation, destroy databases, lie and deceive the WHO..

Edited March 12, 2021 by lmao