Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Chewbacca 7730]

5 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

https://namica.org/blog/impact-on-the-mental-health-of-students-during-covid-19/

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(20)30109-7/fulltext

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.10.21251526v1

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2773296

 

I guess you can be obtuse about the suicide specifics of it. But I don’t know how we  have an increase in anxiety and depression and somehow miraculously don’t have an increase in suicide rates.

I'm using CDC numbers for suicides.  Do you have better ones we should use?  Or are you saying they are wrong?

There is also another option here - we could have an increase in anxiety and depression without an increase in suicides.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Chewbacca

[lmao 178]

24 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Post them up so we can read them.

On my phone, but BBC, NYT, the usual. In your opinion, do you think locking a child down and barring them from socializing could have a negative effect on their mental health? 

[BabaYaga 15213]

1 minute ago, Chewbacca said:

I'm using CDC numbers for suicides.  Do you have better ones we should use?  Or are you saying they are wrong?

I question the CDC's numbers, as @Anastasis and I already pointed out, there is a very unusual spike in a single area - the "unintentional" category that was never that high before, suddenly spikes, and helps the narrative that suicides are down.  I truly hope that they are, but as many have pointed out, all year there have been reports after reports on suicide hotlines blowing up, LE feedback on massive surges in suicides, etc.. 

You also have example after example of agencies using slight of hand attribution and categorization tricks to "push" numbers in certain ways.  I posted two.  The way we factor UE numbers is another.  There are countless examples.  I think this is such a case.

Nor is the CDC above reproach.  Hell, they did this before in this pandemic when they "mistakenly" conflated the results of COVID cases with those that had previous had COVID, distorting several important metrics and providing the country with an inaccurate picture of the state of the pandemic.  A picture a large number of states were basing their behavior and subsequent directives from.  They were combining test results that diagnose current coronavirus infections with test results that measure whether someone has ever had the virus.

Then, when they got called out for it, were like, well....will you look at that.  Our bad....

 

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

12 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I'm using CDC numbers for suicides.  Do you have better ones we should use?  Or are you saying they are wrong?

There is also another option here - we could have an increase in anxiety and depression without an increase in suicides.

Are the numbers preliminary?  If so, how often are preliminary numbers adjusted?  Is this one of those situations where you have to wait a year or two to get the true numbers?

[Chewbacca 7730]

2 minutes ago, lmao said:

On my phone, but BBC, NYT, the usual. In your opinion, do you think locking a child down and barring them from socializing could have a negative effect on their mental health? 

I sure as hell don't think it drives them to suicide.  I have 2 teens.  They interact with their friends online every night, usually for multiple hours playing on Steam.  The pandemic has had zero impact on them.

I think technology has made it much easier for kids to stay in touch with their friends.  And most teens I know haven't exactly been observing strict lockdown procedures.  In short, I think the risk is overblown.

[Anastasis 23394]

There is nothing wrong with the CDC number. They aren't fudging the data.  The cause of death attribution is based on the ICD10 codes assigned by the medical examiner or coroner or who ever completed the death certificate.  They are provisional because it takes a lot of time to finalize all the data.  Typically they run a 12 month lag. This is an early look, but there is no reason to question the data imo.  You just have to understand it's limitations before making conclusions. 

[Chewbacca 7730]

10 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I question the CDC's numbers, as @Anastasis and I already pointed out, there is a very unusual spike in a single area - the "unintentional" category that was never that high before, suddenly spikes, and helps the narrative that suicides are down.  I truly hope that they are, but as many have pointed out, all year there have been reports after reports on suicide hotlines blowing up, LE feedback on massive surges in suicides, etc.. 

You also have example after example of agencies using slight of hand attribution and categorization tricks to "push" numbers in certain ways.  I posted two.  The way we factor UE numbers is another.  There are countless examples.  I think this is such a case.

Nor is the CDC above reproach.  Hell, they did this before in this pandemic when they "mistakenly" conflated the results of COVID cases with those that had previous had COVID, distorting several important metrics and providing the country with an inaccurate picture of the state of the pandemic.  A picture a large number of states were basing their behavior and subsequent directives from.  They were combining test results that diagnose current coronavirus infections with test results that measure whether someone has ever had the virus.

Then, when they got called out for it, were like, well....will you look at that.  Our bad....

 

 

It seems to me that some here want the numbers to be wrong because it doesn't fit their desired narrative.  I don't know enough about how they calculate them or how often they revise them to speculate on where they should be.  But based on the numbers published by the CDC, which as far as I know is the place to get them, the data just doesn't fit the narrative.

Been dealing with WAAAY too many people in the past year+ who seek out data to fit their worldview and I'm done with it.  I'm all for the science based approach, and by that I mean real science, not Youtube and Facebook science.

[BabaYaga 15213]

12 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Are the numbers preliminary?  If so, how often are preliminary numbers adjusted?  Is this one of those situations where you have to wait a year or two to get the true numbers?

About as often as they revise financial forecasts and growth projections

[BabaYaga 15213]

Just now, Chewbacca said:

It seems to me that some here want the numbers to be wrong because it doesn't fit their desired narrative.  I don't know enough about how they calculate them or how often they revise them to speculate on where they should be.  But based on the numbers published by the CDC, which as far as I know is the place to get them, the data just doesn't fit the narrative.

Been dealing with WAAAY too many people in the past year+ who seek out data to fit their worldview and I'm done with it.  I'm all for the science based approach, and by that I mean real science, not Youtube and Facebook science.

Just the opposite.  Everyone seems a little too happy to report them as they fit a very clear narrative of their own.  Like I said, I hope they are accurate, but there has been way too much anecdotal data suggesting otherwise.

Again, I think this is a basis of attribution and categorization, not conspiracy.  They are also preliminary, yet many are so quick to "point to the science" and say the case is closed; ignoring either intentional or grossly negligent earlier mistakes by the CDC.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

I hope they’re accurate too. That would be great.  I don’t see any reason to misreport.  Just wondering if provisional numbers get revised and if so how much typically.  This seems like really good news.  Even if adjusted upward probably won’t be much.  

[Newdoc 3433]

54 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

There is also another option here - we could have an increase in anxiety and depression without an increase in suicides.

We were having a significant increase in suicides before the pandemic. So now we have two moving points with the possibility that suicides could have finally peaked and were about to start decreasing without the pandemic but I’ve held steady since the pandemic and possibly due to the pandemic.

And historically CDC data is lagging. It is really hard to draw recent conclusions based on their numbers. For other issues such as morbidity and mortality of chronic disease, I find CDC data to be accurate about 2 to 3 years out.

[Message Board User 12389]

Maybe the Jews did this.

 

[Bevo 13527]

6 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Maybe the Jews did this.

 

Of course she is of German ancestry. She needs to be fired with cause ASAP.

[Parliament 14138]

She's Jewish herself. That whole article is very odd.

[workswithseed 2037]

16 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Maybe the Jews did this.

 

Why even bring jews up when asked they're not open? What type of "look over there!" Is that?

[Chewbacca 7730]

27 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

We were having a significant increase in suicides before the pandemic. So now we have two moving points with the possibility that suicides could have finally peaked and were about to start decreasing without the pandemic but I’ve held steady since the pandemic and possibly due to the pandemic.

And historically CDC data is lagging. It is really hard to draw recent conclusions based on their numbers. For other issues such as morbidity and mortality of chronic disease, I find CDC data to be accurate about 2 to 3 years out.

Maybe you're right and the data is wrong.  But until that data is proven to be wrong, it's what we have to go on, agreed?

[Message Board User 12389]

3 minutes ago, Parliament said:

She's Jewish herself. That whole article is very odd.

Not too odd - these teachers unions are going to come up with a whole host of bizarre reasons not to fully open in August:  kids needing to be vaccinated, new air filtration systems needed, 6 feet of social distance in all classrooms, "deep cleaning,"  vax boosters, whatever...

Having paid (too much) attention to the schooling saga for the last 12 months, let's just say I will be absolutely shocked if schools nationwide are offering in-person schooling to 100% of kids when the next school year starts 4 short months from now.  

Hope I'm wrong.

[Enchubben 5509]

There’s also the a possibility that those which experienced increased depression, anxiety and mental illness as a result of this, haven’t committed the act yet.

gonna be trailing numbers, which is why it will be hard to determine suicide as a direct result of COVID/lockdowns. People that lost businesses, jobs may only now be feeling the stress due to stimulus payments, cc/rent/mortgage/auto loan relief/increased unemployment payments coming to a close in many areas.

Maybe there is some previous analysis on correlation of mental health surveys to suicides that could be leveraged to gauge the effects while figures get ironed out. Agree it’s too early to make a definitive statement. 

[Chewbacca 7730]

3 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

There’s also the a possibility that those which experienced increased depression, anxiety and mental illness as a result of this, haven’t committed the act yet.

gonna be trailing numbers, which is why it will be hard to determine suicide as a direct result of COVID/lockdowns. People that lost businesses, jobs may only now be feeling the stress due to stimulus payments, cc/rent/mortgage/auto loan relief/increased unemployment payments coming to a close in many areas.

Maybe there is some previous analysis on correlation of mental health surveys to suicides that could be leveraged to gauge the effects while figures get ironed out. Agree it’s too early to make a definitive statement. 

This makes more sense to me than saying the data is wrong.

[clapclapclap 9000]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9446907/Some-women-report-heavier-painful-PERIODS-getting-COVID-19-vaccine.html

Women say they are having heavier and more painful PERIODS since getting their COVID-19 vaccines - as several claim it has also messed up their monthly cycle

Dr. Kate Clancy, a University of Illinois associate professor, said that she'd heard people had experienced changes in their menstruation since getting vaccinated

Her tweet prompted other women to share changes to their own periods

Several reported that they were bleeding more heavily and for longer than they had before getting the vaccine 

A few said they began menstruating in the middle of their cycles, days or weeks before they were supposed to

Experts aren't sure why some women might see changes to their periods, and so far there is not enough data to know whether it is connected to the vaccine

A small study this year found that some participants saw changes to their menstruation after contracting the virus (snip)

 

More about the virus induced issues:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/long-covid-and-periods-the-unspoken-impact-on-female-well-being

Many people with long COVID — who keep experiencing COVID-19 symptoms months after the disease should have subsided — have been pointing out that it has also affected their menstrual cycles. Medical News Today wanted to find out more. (snip)

 

BTW, are we still pretending this didn't leak/released from the ChiCom bioweapons lab that had been holding and researching it for years?

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

This is why we need to get as many needles in arms as humanly possible as fast as possible.  The virus is going to continue to mutate no matter what we do (or do not do).  People on the fence about vaccinations need to be talked into it.  Those who refuse to get one should be mercilessly mocked at every chance.  The only way to beat COVID is through herd immunity.  The only way to herd immunity is vaccinations.

Yep. Just look at what is happening in Brazil to see the alternative to this.

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Actually I specifically got, you don’t get to talk about that.
 

CR participants love policing people all over this site. A wonderful set of hall monitors. 

Looks like you forgot to log out of an account before responding to yourself. It’s ok though. It’s not a surprise.

[Hate 20103]

58 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Not too odd - these teachers unions are going to come up with a whole host of bizarre reasons not to fully open in August:  kids needing to be vaccinated, new air filtration systems needed, 6 feet of social distance in all classrooms, "deep cleaning,"  vax boosters, whatever...

Having paid (too much) attention to the schooling saga for the last 12 months, let's just say I will be absolutely shocked if schools nationwide are offering in-person schooling to 100% of kids when the next school year starts 4 short months from now.  

Hope I'm wrong.

I'm glad my son is in a school district that figured it out and has had a pretty "normal" school year.  I can't imagine trying to help my son with his schoolwork for a whole school year. It was painful enough when they went all remote last March.

[Guest Lobo]

51 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

BTW, are we still pretending this didn't leak/released from the ChiCom bioweapons lab that had been holding and researching it for years?

If that is the case, and I think it may very well could be, then it was an illegal act of biological warfare.  And our lack of more robust and widespread implementation of the Defense Production Act in early 2020 is nearly itself, a war crime.  If they deployed a bioweapon, why did we dick around with half-measures for a year?  

[Neonmoon 38127]

On 4/6/2021 at 2:54 PM, BabaYaga said:

That whole spin article is utter nonsense.  Funny how "unintentional injury" had a massive spike.  Further, if you read it, it's provisional data.  

More COVID suicides than COVID deaths in children

 

 

On 4/6/2021 at 3:37 PM, BabaYaga said:

No, as posted, I think they show-horned them under "unintentional Injuries".  The whole story gives me skeptical hippo eyes when all you heard about all year were domestic disputes, violence, and suicides were spiking.  

I, personally, find this pretty shocking and suspicious considering the numerous reports of suicide hotlines ringing off the hook, the CDC report saying 25% of young adults had seriously considered suicide, etc. Suicide information is usually not available for a couple of years, so maybe that's at play here?

It simply defies logic that the suicide rate actually decreased during lockdowns and isolation. Of course it would be a good thing if that actually happened, it just seems really illogical.

 

7 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

It was posted, and the reactions were highly, highly suspect and do not reflect a year's worth of feedback from almost every suicide hotline, LE/fire response feedback that it was substantially higher.  The CDC data also conveniently saw a 20K spike in "unintentional injuries" that I think saw a change in attribution and many deaths recategorized.  

 

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I agree that it would be premature to draw a conclusion.  But those data don't really get at the trends in suicide rates, ideation, or attempts among children and adolescents, nor the broader mental health impacts of the pandemic on children. Those are aggregated provisional cause of death data.  As has been demonstrated in a number of studies, including the ones I linked, the impacts of the pandemic are likely differential on a number of factors. Race, age, socioeconomic status and their interactions are the easy ones. Too early to tell, but overall trend is suicide mortality good, trend in "unintentional death" bad, lots of signals suggesting further analysis necessary, is about the extent of the conclusions at this point.

 

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

I question the CDC's numbers, as @Anastasis and I already pointed out, there is a very unusual spike in a single area - the "unintentional" category that was never that high before, suddenly spikes, and helps the narrative that suicides are down.  I truly hope that they are, but as many have pointed out, all year there have been reports after reports on suicide hotlines blowing up, LE feedback on massive surges in suicides, etc.. 

You also have example after example of agencies using slight of hand attribution and categorization tricks to "push" numbers in certain ways.  I posted two.  The way we factor UE numbers is another.  There are countless examples.  I think this is such a case.

Nor is the CDC above reproach.  Hell, they did this before in this pandemic when they "mistakenly" conflated the results of COVID cases with those that had previous had COVID, distorting several important metrics and providing the country with an inaccurate picture of the state of the pandemic.  A picture a large number of states were basing their behavior and subsequent directives from.  They were combining test results that diagnose current coronavirus infections with test results that measure whether someone has ever had the virus.

Then, when they got called out for it, were like, well....will you look at that.  Our bad....

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

There is nothing wrong with the CDC number. They aren't fudging the data.  The cause of death attribution is based on the ICD10 codes assigned by the medical examiner or coroner or who ever completed the death certificate.  They are provisional because it takes a lot of time to finalize all the data.  Typically they run a 12 month lag. This is an early look, but there is no reason to question the data imo.  You just have to understand it's limitations before making conclusions. 

 

2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

It seems to me that some here want the numbers to be wrong because it doesn't fit their desired narrative.  I don't know enough about how they calculate them or how often they revise them to speculate on where they should be.  But based on the numbers published by the CDC, which as far as I know is the place to get them, the data just doesn't fit the narrative.

Been dealing with WAAAY too many people in the past year+ who seek out data to fit their worldview and I'm done with it.  I'm all for the science based approach, and by that I mean real science, not Youtube and Facebook science.

 

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Just the opposite.  Everyone seems a little too happy to report them as they fit a very clear narrative of their own.  Like I said, I hope they are accurate, but there has been way too much anecdotal data suggesting otherwise.

Again, I think this is a basis of attribution and categorization, not conspiracy.  They are also preliminary, yet many are so quick to "point to the science" and say the case is closed; ignoring either intentional or grossly negligent earlier mistakes by the CDC.

You are literally the only person who is saying the CDC provisional data is suspect. You are saying it’s suspect because of anecdotal data. You are for forming a narrative to fit your political view. 

 

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

5 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

This is why we need to get as many needles in arms as humanly possible as fast as possible.  The virus is going to continue to mutate no matter what we do (or do not do).  People on the fence about vaccinations need to be talked into it.  Those who refuse to get one should be mercilessly mocked at every chance.  The only way to beat COVID is through herd immunity.  The only way to herd immunity is vaccinations.

i have family members that are refusing the vaccine. they have fox news brain worms and it's completely pointless trying to talk to them about anything. they are completely and utterly lost to reality. 

[XYZ 2154]

5 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

The only way to herd immunity is vaccinations.

That’s not the only way.

[JimmyJames 12271]

14 minutes ago, XYZ said:

That’s not the only way.

Sure if a lot more people die than is necessary.

[Kyle 207]

4 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

It seems to me that some here want the numbers to be wrong because it doesn't fit their desired narrative.  I don't know enough about how they calculate them or how often they revise them to speculate on where they should be.  But based on the numbers published by the CDC, which as far as I know is the place to get them, the data just doesn't fit the narrative.

Been dealing with WAAAY too many people in the past year+ who seek out data to fit their worldview and I'm done with it.  I'm all for the science based approach, and by that I mean real science, not Youtube and Facebook science.

This has been the most frustrating component of this episode from government officials to polite conversations - the tendency to ignore data in favor of ultracrepidarian "experts" as well as to engage in at best mental gymnastics and at worst wild conspiracies to explain away data in lieu of a desired narrative. "Science" has been redefined as "desired narrative" rather than demonstrable data. 

On this particular suicide issue, I can be both approach the CDC data with some skepticism given contradictory (admittedly much smaller scale studies) and the CDC's hardly infallible track record record; however, I do not doubt the date prima facia without clear reasons to believe the data is incorrect ... and of course there is no "desired narrative" that would ever make me celebrate additional suicides among children.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Kyle

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

7 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

The specific argument I'm refuting is that lockdowns are harming our kids by making them kill themselves at increased rates because they can't be with their friends.  The data does not support that conclusion.  I could definitely see drug overdoses increasing as more people have sat at home with nothing to do for long stretches at a time.

I don’t think the data supports the idea put forward in that article that kids are sitting in their rooms all day and their only social interaction is via virtual school. There may have been some of that early on, but kids have been going out and gathering socially for a good long while now, and communicate constantly with each other via social media and online multi player video games. They are not isolated, as a group. I’m sure there are some kids that for one reason or another have been isolated because of the pandemic- maybe grandma lives with them and has copd so everyone is extra cautious- but not in substantial numbers. 

[lmao 178]

4 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

I sure as hell don't think it drives them to suicide.  I have 2 teens.  They interact with their friends online every night, usually for multiple hours playing on Steam.  The pandemic has had zero impact on them.

I think technology has made it much easier for kids to stay in touch with their friends.  And most teens I know haven't exactly been observing strict lockdown procedures.  In short, I think the risk is overblown.

It certainly could in a child that is already depressed. Sounds like your kids have a stable household. A kid who doesn't have that is now stripped of the only stability in thier life (coaching, school, social interaction) etc., is pretty devastating.

[We’reTexas 1469]

4 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Maybe the Jews did this.

 

I had to read it a few times since it was an oral interview, but Weingarten (who is Jewish, and married to a rabbi) is arguing that teachers’ unions are intrinsic to the “ladder of opportunity” of public education and that the position that the unions are too powerful is basically anti-public education.  I have no position either way, but that’s actually what she is saying. Also, extremely hot take by a new Newsweek editorialist with poor critical reading skills. 

[dcar00 14036]

4 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Not too odd - these teachers unions are going to come up with a whole host of bizarre reasons not to fully open in August:  kids needing to be vaccinated, new air filtration systems needed, 6 feet of social distance in all classrooms, "deep cleaning,"  vax boosters, whatever...

Having paid (too much) attention to the schooling saga for the last 12 months, let's just say I will be absolutely shocked if schools nationwide are offering in-person schooling to 100% of kids when the next school year starts 4 short months from now.  

Hope I'm wrong.

only one word from the govt will be needed "variants"

[lmao 178]

2 hours ago, We’reTexas said:

I had to read it a few times since it was an oral interview, but Weingarten (who is Jewish, and married to a rabbi) is arguing that teachers’ unions are intrinsic to the “ladder of opportunity” of public education and that the position that the unions are too powerful is basically anti-public education.  I have no position either way, but that’s actually what she is saying. Also, extremely hot take by a new Newsweek editorialist with poor critical reading skills. 

Yeah this.

[Message Board User 12389]

8 hours ago, We’reTexas said:

I had to read it a few times since it was an oral interview, but Weingarten (who is Jewish, and married to a rabbi) is arguing that teachers’ unions are intrinsic to the “ladder of opportunity” of public education and that the position that the unions are too powerful is basically anti-public education.  I have no position either way, but that’s actually what she is saying. Also, extremely hot take by a new Newsweek editorialist with poor critical reading skills. 

I was being somewhat facetious but Weingartens assertion that teachers unions are needed for teachers to get ahead and be successful is ridiculous.

Ive said it before and will say it again - if there’s one thing that 2020 taught us, it should be that all public sector unions (be they teachers or police unions or whatever) should be outlawed.  
 

They have no interest in the public good and are only concerned with enriching their members and protecting their own.

[GRHorn 105]

 

[Anastasis 23394]

WTF is happening in Michigan.  Jesus. 

 

[Kyle 207]

7 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

 

This would not be confusing to anyone that has been paying attention to the data for the last nine months. (not you but "experts")

[Kyle 207]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

WTF is happening in Michigan.  Jesus. 

 

Pick one:
1) Trump
2) Systematic racism
3) Anti-mask Trump supporters
4) QAnon
5) New Michigan top-secret variant 

[InkaUtexas 25523]

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

[Anastasis 23394]

13 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

BTW, are we still pretending this didn't leak/released from the ChiCom bioweapons lab that had been holding and researching it for years?

But Fort Detrick brah. 

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 hours ago, Message Board User said:

I was being somewhat facetious but Weingartens assertion that teachers unions are needed for teachers to get ahead and be successful is ridiculous.

Ive said it before and will say it again - if there’s one thing that 2020 taught us, it should be that all public sector unions (be they teachers or police unions or whatever) should be outlawed.  
 

They have no interest in the public good and are only concerned with enriching their members and protecting their own.

The main problem is they negotiate with the same politicians they have bought off.  And since there is no profit requirement, there is no market check.  Just raise taxes because schools or police forces won't be going out of business.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

22 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

WTF is happening in Michigan.  Jesus. 

 

Maybe they have had less spread since they have been locked down so long and thus less herd immunity?  Who knows. I think lockdowns are insane.

[Anastasis 23394]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Maybe they have had less spread since they have been locked down so long and thus less herd immunity?  Who knows. I think lockdowns are insane.

Compared to Texas at least, they did not really have that June/July spike. I am just surprised that at this point vaccination efforts aren't blunting their March/April spike. They have 32% with first dose and 20% fully vaccinated. The payoff for the more aggressive restrictions was buying time until the vaccines arrived.  At least for Michigan, they appear to be missing out on the payoff.  

[Borachio 416]

29 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

WTF is happening in Michigan.  Jesus. 

 

I was up in Detroit for a week a couple of weeks ago and people were masked up everywhere,  even outside in most cases, especially in a couple of the college towns where they were required on campus. 

Lots of the museums were doing temperature checks and each restaurant I ate in required patrons to fill out a form with name and phone number for contact tracing.  I felt like they had their shit together. Something ain't working. 

[Captainant 27467]

9 minutes ago, Borachio said:

I was up in Detroit for a week a couple of weeks ago and people were masked up everywhere,  even outside in most cases, especially in a couple of the college towns where they were required on campus. 

Lots of the museums were doing temperature checks and each restaurant I ate in required patrons to fill out a form with name and phone number for contact tracing.  I felt like they had their shit together. Something ain't working. 

In my experience here in TX, big cities and urban areas tend to take COVID seriously, and the smaller towns tend to have more political flags flying than facemasks on faces. I wonder what the breakdown is geographically on the Michigan case data

[BabaYaga 15213]

12 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are literally the only person who is saying the CDC provisional data is suspect. You are saying it’s suspect because of anecdotal data. You are for forming a narrative to fit your political view. 

 

 

As stated twice already, I hope they are correct.  I really do.  I'm initially skeptical  the CDC has already been caught making "mistakes" with data that is being used to formulate decisions.  I question these prelim numbers reconciled against the backdrop of  mountains of anecdotal evidence and a unique "spike" in a certain category that was not so high before. 

It jumped from  173,040 to 192,176.  Often attributed in this category are overdoses, which make is difficult to assign a correct attribution as intent is not able to be determined after the fact.   

There was also a recent study echoing the same concerns about a spike in overdoses and excess deaths that may or may not be attributed to the intent to end one's own life.

Excess deaths up 28% (non COVID attributed)

Then you have to look at previous pandemics.  During the SARS outbreak, suicide rates across the globe went up (especially in HK).  We saw it during the Spanish Flu (The impact of epidemic, war, prohibition and media on suicide: United States, 1910-1920).  The recession of '08.  Rates went up as they historically rise during times of extreme financial hardship such as this last year where tens of thousands of businesses closed their doors.

 

 

[GRHorn 105]

10 minutes ago, Borachio said:

I was up in Detroit for a week a couple of weeks ago and people were masked up everywhere,  even outside in most cases, especially in a couple of the college towns where they were required on campus. 

Lots of the museums were doing temperature checks and each restaurant I ate in required patrons to fill out a form with name and phone number for contact tracing.  I felt like they had their shit together. Something ain't working. 

Sounds like they need to lock down harder. 

[Anastasis 23394]

9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

In my experience here in TX, big cities and urban areas tend to take COVID seriously, and the smaller towns tend to have more political flags flying than facemasks on faces. I wonder what the breakdown is geographically on the Michigan case data