Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[We’reTexas 1468]

58 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Somewhere in the clusterfuck that was the management of the pandemic a substantial portion of the population got the idea that the goal should be to try to get the risk to zero for everyone.  I’m not saying that’s you but it’s out there. I blame Twitter 

I live in SF and probably 80-90% of people are still masking outdoors - I’m talking 25 year olds walking alone on a block. CA technically hasn’t revised its mask mandate yet but I highly doubt so many people are being that nuanced about it. State and local governments here have never engaged in a serious discussion over risk tolerance and reopening, and “zero risk” has more or less been the ethos expressed by public health officials. Life here has basically been unchanged since June 2020. 
 

It’s not the mask part I care about, it’s that I worry that a huge chunk of the CA (and especially the Bay Area) population can’t handle reopening. We are at a point where public health guidance (UCSF Medicine Chair is fully vaccinated and advises double masking on airplanes) and public policy are finally sharply diverging. We are unprepared for conversations about, for instance, school reopening (SFUSD incredibly has been closed all year and has no plans to reopen) or office reopenings to save the various Bay Area transit authorities from ruin. Many of my wife’s fully-vaccinated coworkers are balking at the idea of returning to the office in July.
 

I suspect this is the situation in many major cities, and I think we need to normalize the concept of reopening. We have been awful with messaging about vaccination so far, of course, and I’m not optimistic about how authorities will message the total removal of the tier system. 

[UT_OB1 2200]

42 minutes ago, We’reTexas said:

I live in SF and probably 80-90% of people are still masking outdoors - I’m talking 25 year olds walking alone on a block. CA technically hasn’t revised its mask mandate yet but I highly doubt so many people are being that nuanced about it. State and local governments here have never engaged in a serious discussion over risk tolerance and reopening, and “zero risk” has more or less been the ethos expressed by public health officials. Life here has basically been unchanged since June 2020. 
 

It’s not the mask part I care about, it’s that I worry that a huge chunk of the CA (and especially the Bay Area) population can’t handle reopening. We are at a point where public health guidance (UCSF Medicine Chair is fully vaccinated and advises double masking on airplanes) and public policy are finally sharply diverging. We are unprepared for conversations about, for instance, school reopening (SFUSD incredibly has been closed all year and has no plans to reopen) or office reopenings to save the various Bay Area transit authorities from ruin. Many of my wife’s fully-vaccinated coworkers are balking at the idea of returning to the office in July.
 

I suspect this is the situation in many major cities, and I think we need to normalize the concept of reopening. We have been awful with messaging about vaccination so far, of course, and I’m not optimistic about how authorities will message the total removal of the tier system. 

I’m mildly drunk and a little bitter. There is a portion of the society that stopped working in March or started some work from home routine. There are some jobs and some individuals that can perform while WFH as well or better than going in to the office, but really, that majority of people out there fuck off even more.  Based on what I’ve seen from my kids school system and my company’s acct, sales and customer service divisions, I’d say 60% efficiency is generous. These were salary peoples, and these groups kept getting paid the same to sit around at home. Most of these people don’t realize what kind of supply chain it really takes for milk to be delivered to their door weekly.  
Then there was a portion of society that went in to work every day, even in March. Nurses, grocery store stockers, farmers, operators, etc.  These were mostly hourly type employees, they were told they were essential, and that they had to keep showing up, and if they didn’t they didn’t get paid. They kept shit going in this country so that everyone still had internet, electricity, gas, healthcare, food AND could fuck off at home and pretend that the country was shut down. 
 

Now we have everyone in group one still wanting to fuck off at home while group 2 takes care of them. And group 1 tends to look down their nose at group 2.  At my work place, we recently had the CA group flat out refuse to come back to the office because they didnt feel comfortable even though we’ve required masks, distancing, sanitizing, and restricted/stopped non employees from entering their building. They didn’t have any problem continuing to get paid while the hourly staff showed up every day and interacted with each other, or outiside drivers and contractors to keep product moving though. Country is full of a bunch of hypocrites that want to be lazy and make it we groups risk their lives for them. 

 

I’m going to open another bottle now. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by UT_OB1

[Brisketexan 104610]

I am not suggesting that you or I should mask or distance forever, I am suggesting that we need dumbasses who refuse to get shots for half assed reasons to step up and help those that may have a different set of circumstances. Thing is that we, as a society, don't have to tell those people with immune disorders, or the variety of other conditions that may reduce vax efficacy, to isolate and lock themselves away from their friends and family and the rest of society. If only we can get some level of optimized coverage, by getting the the people that have shit excuses for not getting the shot on board, we can all get there together. But I do agree that we are about to throw all the shit to the wayside and free ball it, as we should.  Just sucks that some people can't be bothered to step up and help us all get across the finish line together.   

You must not have gotten the “this is America, fuck everyone but me” memo. A course of action that harms everyone else isn’t a bug, it’s a feature, to be celebrated.

[clapclapclap 9000]

This is well done and a great idea:

 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

June 10th at the earliest:

I say Memorial Day. You say June 10th. Others say July 4th. I think July 4th is too late, but whatever- if that’s the case I can deal with it.

What had me pissed, after flying the other day, is that the flight attendant union is asking for government to push it out until at least mid October. That’s total and utter lunacy that should not be stood for. Yet I have every belief that we will still be required to mask up in September/October, when literally the laziest amongst us should have been vaccinated 3 months prior and had that opportunity. 
States have been sending back vaccines for 2 weeks now. That means we should be 30 days from more or less everyone that wanted to get it having had time for the 42 day protocol. 

[justhookit 4180]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You must not have gotten the “this is America, fuck everyone but me” memo. A course of action that harms everyone else isn’t a bug, it’s a feature, to be celebrated.

Well that’s sort of the history of the world. You aren’t exactly wrong applying it to our country but it’s nothing new. When exactly, here in our country, were things ok? Where were things good in other countries before and where are they good now? I’m sort of insulated in Port A because these kinds of problems don’t exist here. And it’s one of the major reasons why I live here.

[The Dog 43804]

28 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

What had me pissed, after flying the other day, is that the flight attendant union is asking for government to push it out until at least mid October.

That's stupid. No reason a large number of them shouldn't have had at least their first shot or the J&J shot by now. 

[dcar00 14035]

40 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I say Memorial Day. You say June 10th. Others say July 4th. I think July 4th is too late, but whatever- if that’s the case I can deal with it.

What had me pissed, after flying the other day, is that the flight attendant union is asking for government to push it out until at least mid October. That’s total and utter lunacy that should not be stood for. Yet I have every belief that we will still be required to mask up in September/October, when literally the laziest amongst us should have been vaccinated 3 months prior and had that opportunity. 
States have been sending back vaccines for 2 weeks now. That means we should be 30 days from more or less everyone that wanted to get it having had time for the 42 day protocol. 

you will be wearing a mask on a plane until at least mid 2022 because...wait for it...VARIANTS

[David Dennison 18656]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

you will be wearing a mask on a plane until at least mid 2022 because...wait for it...VARIANTS

No big deal. 

[Hate 20103]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

you will be wearing a mask on a plane until at least mid 2022 because...wait for it...VARIANTS

Like I said earlier, on a plane is the one place I am ok with continuing to wear a mask.  I wish I had thought about it 30 years ago.  I really don't see why anyone would be opposed to this particular scenario.

[dcar00 14035]

Just now, Hate said:

Like I said earlier, on a plane is the one place I am ok with continuing to wear a mask.  I wish I had thought about it 30 years ago.  I really don't see why anyone would be opposed to this particular scenario.

Im perfectly fine with people wanting to wear a mask wherever they want to except a bank.

[dcar00 14035]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

No big deal. 

congrats?

[justhookit 4180]

Good grief I just repped Dennison.

32 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

you will be wearing a mask on a plane until at least mid 2022 because...wait for it...VARIANTS

What exactly is your problem with that?  I mean I realize you’ve stuck your head in your ass the sand this whole time but can you give any good reasoning? If a mask prevents even 1 out of 1000 transmissions it’s still slowing it down. Variants don’t exist or what? Also might prevent a few flu transmissions while we are at it.

[workswithseed 2036]

11 minutes ago, justhookit said:

Good grief I just repped Dennison.

What exactly is your problem with that?  I mean I realize you’ve stuck your head in your ass the sand this whole time but can you give any good reasoning? If a mask prevents even 1 out of 1000 transmissions it’s still slowing it down. Variants don’t exist or what? Also might prevent a few flu transmissions while we are at it.

I'm going to chuckle when everyone isn't wearing a mask everywhere else but planes. Hepa filters and all, just stop touching your face so much.

[Ted Lange 16050]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

Like I said earlier, on a plane is the one place I am ok with continuing to wear a mask.  I wish I had thought about it 30 years ago.  I really don't see why anyone would be opposed to this particular scenario.

Thanks to HEPA filters and efficient circulation on commercial aircrafts, the air you breathe in flight—though not necessarily entirely virus-free—is much cleaner than the air in restaurants, bars, stores, or your best friend’s living room.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/article/how-clean-is-the-air-on-your-airplane-coronavirus-cvd

 

Air on a plane is safer than sitting indoors your average bar/restaurant.   FYI

[justhookit 4180]

Yes, the guy sitting next to me that I am sharing an armrest with that’s breathing next to me for a few hours is much safer. HEPA filters are in the tray table.

edit- I don’t really give a shit I’m vaccinated and I’ll take my chances anywhere and everywhere. But I’m good with masks on planes for as ever long as they want to require them. It’s the ONLY situation where I am forced to sit next to mouth breathers.

Edited April 30, 2021 by justhookit

[Ted Lange 16050]

I think the only way out is for the POTUS to announce Victory over COVID.   His supporters (who are almost all vaccinated) start returning to normal, then the 30% who have to be contrarian start taking it seriously.   Win Win

[Ted Lange 16050]

1 minute ago, justhookit said:

Yes, the guy sitting next to me that I am sharing an armrest with that’s breathing next to me for a few hours is much safer. HEPA filters are in the tray table.

The air is recirculated every 90 seconds on a plane   You are safer there then sitting in most restaurants for 1-2 hours that simply pass the same air around.   Neither is ideal, but an airplane is much much closer to being outdoors, than almost any restaurant.

[justhookit 4180]

Yes. The cabin air is exchanged, completely, every 90 seconds. Good lord. You might have missed my edit I don’t really care about this. But if they want to require masks going forward for the next 20 years I don’t have a problem with it. A quick google shows that at least a few of the studies conducted by the AIRLINES and the govt. assumed that the passengers were WEARING MASKS. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2020/10/15/coronavirus-study-finds-jetliners-safer-than-operating-rooms/3665469001/

[Ted Lange 16050]

Just saw your edit, we are on the same page.   

[justhookit 4180]

The one we are laughing about now I saw happen yesterday. Couple pulls in to the parking lot, walks across the parking lot with masks on and gets to the porch of the bar and removes their masks right before they walk inside. Granted it’s Shortys so all the windows and doors are open and no a/c, but come on. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they walked up wondering if masks were required to enter. If that’s the case they made their decision extremely fast and before they could even see in. The stupidity knows no bounds.

hell I even sat at a table with @immamaclast week and his aggy ass didn’t display that level of stupidity. He just wore his mask on his neck the whole time. And he made me rethink my opinion of our little sister school because he’s a pretty cool guy.

[Dahobbs 17447]

4 hours ago, justhookit said:

Yes. The cabin air is exchanged, completely, every 90 seconds. Good lord. You might have missed my edit I don’t really care about this. But if they want to require masks going forward for the next 20 years I don’t have a problem with it. A quick google shows that at least a few of the studies conducted by the AIRLINES and the govt. assumed that the passengers were WEARING MASKS. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2020/10/15/coronavirus-study-finds-jetliners-safer-than-operating-rooms/3665469001/

I am pretty sure I got hand foot and mouth from a flight back from Vegas. I noticed the guy in the seat next to me had some serious facial scarring or breakout going and tried to just ignore it. A few days later I started breaking out in hives at work and figured out I had hand foot and mouth. That fucking sucked. I don't know that masks would have prevented transmission, but I wish I had one on that flight (I really wish that guy had worn them if he knew he was flying sick). And as a result I'm totally onboard with wearing masks on flights going forward. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

12 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

pants are a societal norm

This is what we should be fighting about.

[Armybrat 40739]

11 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

 

No one cares about those people.

 

Even the two anti-vaxxers in my family got the Pfizer two weeks ago. No side effects.

[Armybrat 40739]

12 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

 

 

pants are a societal norm. 

I spent a lot of time & effort in high school & college getting the ladies to remove them.

[Armybrat 40739]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I am pretty sure I got hand foot and mouth from a flight back from Vegas. I noticed the guy in the seat next to me had some serious facial scarring or breakout going and tried to just ignore it. A few days later I started breaking out in hives at work and figured out I had hand foot and mouth. That fucking sucked. I don't know that masks would have prevented transmission, but I wish I had one on that flight (I really wish that guy had worn them if he knew he was flying sick). And as a result I'm totally onboard with wearing masks on flights going forward. 

Went to the Red Rooster, did you?

[Bookman 4610]

14 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Remember all the blood The governors of Ga, FL and TX were going to have on their hands?  Yeah- didn’t happen.

How do you know it didn't happen?

[Guest Lobo]

49 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I spent a lot of time & effort in high school & college getting the ladies to remove them.

Was the line "Discharge thine pantaloons young maiden, lest they be soiled with the sap of blissful anticipation" as erotic back then as it is today?  

Edited April 30, 2021 by Lobo

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Was the line "Discharge thine pantaloons young maiden, lest they be soiled with the sap of blissful anticipation" as erotic back then as it is today?  

 

[fuggled 576]

13 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I completely disagree. You need to give a reasonable amount of time for everyone to get vaccinated. Then you need to assume everyone is and act accordingly. A reasonable time for that is mid summer

Are you saying we're already at the point that businesses should assume everyone is vaccinated?  I mean, we have data that says less than 40% of Texans have gotten at least one shot.  To me, we're clearly in the range of "best to assume people aren't vaccinated."  I don't know that there's a magic number.  For me, it might be reasonable to start assuming everyone is vaccinated once we're in the 70-90% range.

[Enchubben 5509]

11 minutes ago, fuggled said:

Are you saying we're already at the point that businesses should assume everyone is vaccinated?  I mean, we have data that says less than 40% of Texans have gotten at least one shot.  To me, we're clearly in the range of "best to assume people aren't vaccinated."  I don't know that there's a magic number.  For me, it might be reasonable to start assuming everyone is vaccinated once we're in the 70-90% range.

When do you think we will ever get to the 70-90% vaccinated range, if ever? Aren't we close to 50% of adults and already slowing down?

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

22 minutes ago, fuggled said:

Are you saying we're already at the point that businesses should assume everyone is vaccinated?  I mean, we have data that says less than 40% of Texans have gotten at least one shot.  To me, we're clearly in the range of "best to assume people aren't vaccinated."  I don't know that there's a magic number.  For me, it might be reasonable to start assuming everyone is vaccinated once we're in the 70-90% range.

I think his point is “everyone that wants to be is” not everyone is. 
IOW fuck anyone who isn’t in about a month or two. 

[DaysOff 7851]

10 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I say Memorial Day. You say June 10th. Others say July 4th. I think July 4th is too late, but whatever- if that’s the case I can deal with it.

What had me pissed, after flying the other day, is that the flight attendant union is asking for government to push it out until at least mid October. That’s total and utter lunacy that should not be stood for. Yet I have every belief that we will still be required to mask up in September/October, when literally the laziest amongst us should have been vaccinated 3 months prior and had that opportunity. 
States have been sending back vaccines for 2 weeks now. That means we should be 30 days from more or less everyone that wanted to get it having had time for the 42 day protocol. 

 

Suck it up buttercup, you're going to be wearing masks on airplanes for quite some time. That guy across the aisle just made his connection from Bangalore.

[Guest Lobo]

With this mask rule down in the terminal, it's never been easier to bring drugs onto an airplane.  

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

2 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

 

Suck it up buttercup, you're going to be wearing masks on airplanes for quite some time. That guy across the aisle just made his connection from Bangalore.

I’m vaxed. I don’t care. If it’s really that much of a worry then let’s just not let anyone come in from overseas. Hell- let’s just not run airplanes at all anymore. Because that dude that just got off the plane from Bangladesh is going to an Uber, and then a hotel, then out to dinner and a movie and a rub and tug and he’s not wearing a mask to any of those places nor is anyone else. There’s nothing magical about an airplane that makes it worse than any restaurant or bar or theater out there and I don’t see anyone arguing wear masks there forever. 

For fucks sake- it’s stupid at some point in time very close to now. As stupid as taking my shoes and belt and whatever else passes for post 9/11 safety theater at the airport.  
 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

6 minutes ago, Lobo said:

With this mask rule down in the terminal, it's never been easier to bring drugs onto an airplane.  

Yeah but it makes it impossible for Rex to dip on the plane. 

[Guest Lobo]

Also, I tested America on a recent flight.  Mask on, working on laptop, and headphones in.  Everything about me/on me says, "I don't want to talk on this flight."  

Did that stop Karen on the aisle seat who broke the "Long story, short" promise about a half dozen times?  NO, it did not.  I

[clapclapclap 9000]

Since WHO and the media are labelling many variants by geography (UK, India, Brazil) are we ok now to call the original the China Virus?  Why not, what's the difference?

And how are we certain that the India variant (or others) wasn't a covert new release from the Wuhan Lab?  Are we still pretending it wasn't the ChiCom government's biowarfare research lab?

Edited April 30, 2021 by clapclapclap
I'm just asking questions

[Sawbonz 27429]

1 hour ago, fuggled said:

Are you saying we're already at the point that businesses should assume everyone is vaccinated?  I mean, we have data that says less than 40% of Texans have gotten at least one shot.  To me, we're clearly in the range of "best to assume people aren't vaccinated."  I don't know that there's a magic number.  For me, it might be reasonable to start assuming everyone is vaccinated once we're in the 70-90% range.

Not assuming the are vaccinated, assuming they are vaccinated or won’t  be getting one. We aren’t going to get to 70% vaccinated 

[dcar00 14035]

11 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Since WHO and the media are labelling many variants by geography (UK, India, Brazil) are we ok now to call the original the China Virus?  Why not, what's the difference?

And how are we certain that the India variant (or others) wasn't a covert new release from the Wuhan Lab?  Are we still pretending it wasn't the ChiCom government's biowarfare research lab?

just call it Wuhan variant.

[Guest Lobo]

It's a fair question about naming variants/original strain.  I just felt the term Covid19 tacitly suggested, "Science 'n Shit"  So that people would quickly understand this was a serious scientific and medical and public health issue and we had to lead with scientific facts first.  Then feelings and politics way, way down the list.  'China Virus' isn't inaccurate, but to many  Americans, it sounded geopolitical or 'a bug that was going around.'  

If it was in fact a weaponized virus released from a foreign lab, that was an illegal act of biological warfare and violation of the Geneva Convention.  Therefore our first step should have been to authorize the Defense Production Act within 72 hours, hammer down all international travel (our most susceptible entry point in this country is not our southern border or our shores, it's our network of international airports), enhance recon surveillance of China, and cease public diplomatic relations with their political leadership (leaving open only back channel and scientific community communications). 

But what did we do to combat this egregious act of illegal warfare?  Said it wasn't a big deal and it'd be gone by Easter.  That's not the posture of a nation that actually believes it was attacked by a biological agent of a foreign enemy.  

[Sawbonz 27429]

21 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Also, I tested America on a recent flight.  Mask on, working on laptop, and headphones in.  Everything about me/on me says, "I don't want to talk on this flight."  

Did that stop Karen on the aisle seat who broke the "Long story, short" promise about a half dozen times?  NO, it did not.  I

 In case anyone needs an example of irony

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

38 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

 

Suck it up buttercup, you're going to be wearing masks on airplanes for quite some time. That guy across the aisle just made his connection from Bangalore.

As someone who has spent time in Bangalore, we are all fucked.

[Guest Lobo]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

 In case anyone needs an example of irony

Scrolls past posts you don't want to read.  You come up with a way to tell somebody to shut up in real life without making it a real awkward 3 flight to New York, lemme know. We could make a lot of money in the travel industry.  

[Sawbonz 27429]

6 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Scrolls past posts you don't want to read.  You come up with a way to tell somebody to shut up in real life without making it a real awkward 3 flight to New York, lemme know. We could make a lot of money in the travel industry.  

I’m just messing w you

[Guest Lobo]

I deserve it.  But I do think that people that were used to socializing and chatting a lot that were behind walls and masks are making up for lost time now.  Holy shit, just in the last couple weeks or so I noticed it.  Everybody in real life is just talking about a fucking storm.  Between that, mass shootings, and Longhorns looking to go deep into June baseball......things are getting back to normal Texas!  Fuck yeah.  

[Anastasis 23395]

15 minutes ago, Lobo said:

You come up with a way to tell somebody to shut up in real life without making it a real awkward 3 flight to New York, lemme know. We could make a lot of money in the travel industry.  

Depends on your definition of awkward.

 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Depends on your definition of awkward.

 

Sorry for partying man. 

[Armybrat 40739]

36 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

just call it the PLA variant.

Fify 😄