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Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

InkaUtexas

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Uncle Boobs
Uncle Boobs

Against my better judgment and several beers deep, I have taken you up on this, potentially ending my streak of totally worthless posts. I have done 3 and 7 day averages only on the Worldometer data. 

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

Daughter’s home. A little PTSD, we’re picking up Whataburger to help.

Coelenterate Fuccboi
Coelenterate Fuccboi

Just try and imagine GreenspointTexas being the person to intubate you as you fight for your life against COVID-19. You’re laying there gasping for air while he chastises you for all the things you li

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15625

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Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

BUT IT'S NOT A CHOICE "YOU" LIVE WITH.  IT'S A CHOICE THAT THE REST OF SOCIETY LIVES WITH.   IT'S A MOTHERFUCKING COMMUNICABLE DISEASE, MEANING THAT IT DOESN'T JUST AFFECT ONE PERSON.

Jesus tapdancing Christ.  That's the whole fucking problem here.  "Fuck you, I'll take my risks" is not an accurate statement, because by refusing to be vaccinated and ensuring that there remains a large reservoir of continuing infection, you are imposing risks on the rest of society.

"Fuck you, I'll build my house out of gasoline-soaked hay bales if I want to" sounds fucking great, because choice and freedom and such.....unless you're the poor fuckers who live next door, waiting for the giant conflagration that spreads to your house.

 

So easy to pull Brisket offsides.  lol

 

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DigglerontheHoof

DigglerontheHoof 21552

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6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Fauci and/or Biden need to come out and say that all mandates are ending on June 1st. Vaccines are available to everyone, and if you choose to not get the vaccine for whatever reason, it's a choice you live with

And if you get COVID, no insurance coverage for you; comes out of your pocket.

Don’t have the money?  Tough shit, rub some dirt on it and huff bleach.

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14653

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Are you a doctor?  You an at least read then on earlier, similar corona viruses.  Variants don't seem to be as much as a concern as the basic way the virus attacks people is the same, and the vast majority of vaccinated and naturally immune people will recognize this and fight it off with minor to no symptoms. The human body tends to always beat viruses such as this over time and make it less and less deadly.  Not more.  
My guess is each wave this summer, to this winter, to next summer, will be less and less. IFR will get lower and lower, and deaths trend to that of normal respiratory illness seasons within the next 6 months.

India says hold my beer.
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dcar00

dcar00 14974

Posted
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Just now, DigglerontheHoof said:

And if you get COVID, no insurance coverage for you; comes out of your pocket.

Don’t have the money?  Tough shit, rub some dirt on it and huff bleach.

we don't do that for flu vaccine or any other vaccine for that matter.

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15625

Posted
Posted
Just now, DigglerontheHoof said:

And if you get COVID, no insurance coverage for you; comes out of your pocket.

Don’t have the money?  Tough shit, rub some dirt on it and huff bleach.

I'll take "indigent care" for a $100 please

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18325

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

This is all conjectured nonsense.  

As they are already compromised - are they more susceptible to COVID that the flu?  Or the common cold?  

What were they doing before the vax?

What have they done their entire lives during flu seasons?

Or summer and winter colds?

Do we have any actual data on their mortality rates by region pre and post vax as a % of the total population?

Do we have data on their behavioral changes pre and post COVID?

You are just taking the miniscule subset of a few thousand people spread across thousands of miles and using it as a justification to force compliance of hundreds of millions of people.

 

What? I'm referring to other diseases we require vaccination for. We do that in part to protect those that cannot get vaccinate. The goal is to prevent those diseases from actively circulating. Covid-19 is a good candidate for being treated the same way:

  • The vaccines are highly effective. This is not conjecture.
  • The vaccines are readily available. This is not conjecture.
  • The vaccines have extremely low occurrences of serious side effects. This is not conjecture, but rather supported by all available data. There is some outside possibility that the vaccines could be associated with long term side effects that we just haven't seen yet. It may be reasonable to hold off on mandates until a bit more long term data is available. 
  • Covid-19 is a serious disease that has taken large death and economic toll on society. This is not conjecture.

We can't effectively vaccinate against the flu or the various viruses that cause the common cold in a way that would prevent their circulation. Either the vaccines are not effective enough (the flu) or their are simply too many viruses (the cold). Further, these diseases are less serious than covid-19, so eliminating them is less important. 

For some reason, you think the people who cannot get vaccinated are limited to "bubble boy" like individuals. That is not the case. That is a subset of the people that cannot get vaccines, not the entirety of the population. 

Again, are you opposed to mandatory vaccinations for the measles? If not, why treat Covid-19 differently? Frankly, since you've said you'd get vaccinated should it be required to fly, that sounds like a pretty good data point in requiring vaccinations for those traveling on airplanes. 

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26439

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

And if you get COVID, no insurance coverage for you; comes out of your pocket.

Don’t have the money?  Tough shit, rub some dirt on it and huff bleach.

Same with obesity. Fuck you for going to McDonalds. And if you eat red meat? Insurance is GONE. That cigar you smoked after the big win? Insurance is GONE.

How far do we play this out?

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29580

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Guys we can compromise. If you want to assume the risk, fine. But if you do, and you end up getting someone else sick and they're hospitalized, you're on the hook for their medical costs. And if you can't afford them we garnish your paycheck until they're paid. And if they die, you'll be executed.

I think that sounds fair. Don't y'all agree?

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18325

Posted
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1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Same with obesity. Fuck you for going to McDonalds. And if you eat red meat? Insurance is GONE. That cigar you smoked after the big win? Insurance is GONE.

How far do we play this out?

Life insurance does exactly that. 

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dcar00

dcar00 14974

Posted
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Just now, wildcat09 said:

Guys we can compromise. If you want to assume the risk, fine. But if you do, and you end up getting someone else sick and they're hospitalized, you're on the hook for their medical costs. And if you can't afford them we garnish your paycheck until they're paid. And if they die, you'll be executed.

I think that sounds fair. Don't y'all agree?

LOL. you aren't going to be able to prove that.

in regards to health care costs, the insurance company can offer a lower rate if the person has a vaccine

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15625

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1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

What? I'm referring to other diseases we require vaccination for. We do that in part to protect those that cannot get vaccinate. The goal is to prevent those diseases from actively circulating. Covid-19 is a good candidate for being treated the same way:

  • The vaccines are highly effective. This is not conjecture.
  • The vaccines are readily available. This is not conjecture.
  • The vaccines have extremely low occurrences of serious side effects. This is not conjecture, but rather supported by all available data. There is some outside possibility that the vaccines could be associated with long term side effects that we just haven't seen yet. It may be reasonable to hold off on mandates until a bit more long term data is available. 
  • Covid-19 is a serious disease that has taken large death and economic toll on society. This is not conjecture.

We can't effectively vaccinate against the flu or the various viruses that cause the common cold in a way that would prevent their circulation. Either the vaccines are not effective enough (the flu) or their are simply too many viruses (the cold). Further, these diseases are less serious than covid-19, so eliminating them is less important. 

For some reason, you think the people who cannot get vaccinated are limited to "bubble boy" like individuals. That is not the case. That is a subset of the people that cannot get vaccines, not the entirety of the population. 

Again, are you opposed to mandatory vaccinations for the measles? If not, why treat Covid-19 differently? Frankly, since you've said you'd get vaccinated should it be required to fly, that sounds like a pretty good data point in requiring vaccinations for those traveling on airplanes. 

What is conjecture is whether your supposed mandates even have a material impact of the fractional percentage of the population that is already susceptible to not only COVID, but every other type of virus and ailment.  Nor do we have any data on it's impact to them pre and post outbreak or pre and post vax rollout reconciled with seasonality.  

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18325

Posted
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1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Guys we can compromise. If you want to assume the risk, fine. But if you do, and you end up getting someone else sick and they're hospitalized, you're on the hook for their medical costs. And if you can't afford them we garnish your paycheck until they're paid. And if they die, you'll be executed.

I think that sounds fair. Don't y'all agree?

Or, we could just send @BabaYaga and others like him to an island, Escape from New York style.  I'd be ok with that compromise. Sounds like he'd be happier too. 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18325

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1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

What is conjecture is whether your supposed mandates even have a material impact of the fractional percentage of the population that is already susceptible to not only COVID, but every other type of virus and ailment.  Nor do we have any data on it's impact to them pre and post outbreak or pre and post vax rollout reconciled with seasonality.  

What? You understand I'm talking about vaccination and not shutdowns, right? Like, if a virus can't circulate, no one gets sick. It's literally what we did to Polio. This is pretty basic stuff. 

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gyroprotagonist

gyroprotagonist 2597

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20 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

As time passes it’s becoming more clear to me that this kind of crap is just about maintaining control.  

OK, i so see this posted a lot on the texags political board.  What, specifically, are they trying to maintain control of?  

Is the narrative here that all Federal gov just gets off on telling people what to do for 'reasons'?  I am guess this applies to both parties, right?   I mean, the gov is already so intertwined in the lives of everyday people, I just can't fathom how this mask thing is finally the straw that broke the camel's back.   you pay fed taxes, fed sets levels for the air you breathe, the water you drink, the food you eat, the medicine you take, the drugs you can use.  Fed has restrictions on who you can sell to, who you can buy from, what types of goods you can sell/buy.  when, where and how you can make use of federal land.  Then there is all the money the Fed gov doles out to states, most of it with conditions for use ... but CDC 'recommendation' for masks was over the line and is about 'maintaining control'?  

that said, I had also hoped for more relaxed guidance from CDC on masking wrt vaxed people.  Camps should be able to do what they want and if their customers complain enough, they might change their stance.  I am sure there is a calculation concerning a civil suit from the small chance of death of a camper or staff vs loss of business due to mask requirements.  It's prudent from a liability standpoint to follow CDC guidelines and that's the rub to folks wanting to eliminate the restrictions.

 

 

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DigglerontheHoof

DigglerontheHoof 21552

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2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

They kill a fuck load more people than COVID and the flu combined each year.  

And zero of them can be passed on to me.  I do take care of myself.  I'm 55, 6' 195, have BP that is always w/in a few points of 115/65, and bad cholesterol is under 170; I don't smoke and eat healthily.  I'm all for penalizing people for being fat fucking smokers...bring it on.

But, again, if you choose to be a fat, unhealthy pig, that's your choice.  Heart disease and cancer can't be passed onto others despite your bad decisions...not taking the vacc shot?  Not so much. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106907

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7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

They kill a fuck load more people than COVID and the flu combined each year.  

They kill the person engaging in the behavior.

They do not kill persons who happen to encounter the person engaging in the behavior.

You are free to risk your own life and health.  You do not have unlimited freedom to risk the life and health of someone else.  This is the foundation of any sane social contract.  It really is that simple.

Some people accept the reality that we live in a community/society, and many of our actions have impacts on others.  Other people live in a fantasy world where none of our actions have an impact on anyone but ourselves.  You can live in whatever world you want.  Just don't think the rest of us are stupid enough to buy into the idea that your fantasy is actually reality.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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Posted
5 minutes ago, gyroprotagonist said:

OK, i so see this posted a lot on the texags political board.  What, specifically, are they trying to maintain control of?  

Is the narrative here that all Federal gov just gets off on telling people what to do for 'reasons'?  I am guess this applies to both parties, right?   I mean, the gov is already so intertwined in the lives of everyday people, I just can't fathom how this mask thing is finally the straw that broke the camel's back.   you pay fed taxes, fed sets levels for the air you breathe, the water you drink, the food you eat, the medicine you take, the drugs you can use.  Fed has restrictions on who you can sell to, who you can buy from, what types of goods you can sell/buy.  when, where and how you can make use of federal land.  Then there is all the money the Fed gov doles out to states, most of it with conditions for use ... but CDC 'recommendation' for masks was over the line and is about 'maintaining control'?  

that said, I had also hoped for more relaxed guidance from CDC on masking wrt vaxed people.  Camps should be able to do what they want and if their customers complain enough, they might change their stance.  I am sure there is a calculation concerning a civil suit from the small chance of death of a camper or staff vs loss of business due to mask requirements.  It's prudent from a liability standpoint to follow CDC guidelines and that's the rub to folks wanting to eliminate the restrictions.

 

 

Is it both sides? Yes. 

Unelected bureaucrats with an inflated sense of self worth want to keep having a say in how millions of people go about their everyday lives? I guess that’s what it is?
 

I’m looking for reasons why they release guidance that has no scientific basis like the kids masking stuff. 

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MoJames

MoJames 8258

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22 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Same with obesity. Fuck you for going to McDonalds. And if you eat red meat? Insurance is GONE. That cigar you smoked after the big win? Insurance is GONE.

How far do we play this out?

Granted your obesity won't really cause anyone else health issues.

I did once work with a General Surgeon who felt if you had a BMI over a certain amount you should pay more taxes because your fat ass was wearing out the roads faster.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11876

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Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Do you or do you not have any responsibility for how your actions affect others?

Check "yes" or "no."  Go ahead.  Pick one.

Are we doing Choose your own Adventure, or are you passing me a Jr High love note?

 

 

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MoJames

MoJames 8258

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45 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Anecdotal here, but a couple pulmonologist colleagues at my chiropractic clinic say they’d estimate that about 20% of patients hospitalized with covid have longer term pulmonary issues/oxygen requirements. 

Wait you are telling me that ARDS requires oxygen after discharge from the hospital?!

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MoJames

MoJames 8258

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Posted
Just now, wildcat09 said:

I'm actually kind of intrigued by this idea that people shouldn't be held responsible for harming others, though I'm not sure the people espousing it will actually continue to do so if we start taking it seriously.

You thinking about becoming a police officer?

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VelvetFreeze

VelvetFreeze 114

Posted
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

BUT IT'S NOT A CHOICE "YOU" LIVE WITH.  IT'S A CHOICE THAT THE REST OF SOCIETY LIVES WITH.   IT'S A MOTHERFUCKING COMMUNICABLE DISEASE, MEANING THAT IT DOESN'T JUST AFFECT ONE PERSON.

Jesus tapdancing Christ.  That's the whole fucking problem here.  "Fuck you, I'll take my risks" is not an accurate statement, because by refusing to be vaccinated and ensuring that there remains a large reservoir of continuing infection, you are imposing risks on the rest of society.

"Fuck you, I'll build my house out of gasoline-soaked hay bales if I want to" sounds fucking great, because choice and freedom and such.....unless you're the poor fuckers who live next door, waiting for the giant conflagration that spreads to your house.

 

Hey yahoo, survival of the fittest.  And this, imposing risks on the rest of society crap, is just feelings.   

I see lemmings, everywhere.

Edited by VelvetFreeze
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wildcat09

wildcat09 29580

Posted
Posted
Just now, VelvetFreeze said:

Hey yahoo, survival of the fittest.  And this, imposing risks on the rest ogfsociety crap is just feelings.   

I see lemmings, everywhere.

Like this guy here. If I met him in public and broke his jaw, should that be ok? It's not like he'd be likely to die. And if he did, well, survival of the fittest, right?

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MoJames

MoJames 8258

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, VelvetFreeze said:

Hey yahoo, survival of the fittest.  And this, imposing risks on the rest ogfsociety crap is just feelings.   

I see lemmings, everywhere.

Comedy Central Gamer GIF by South Park

This is what I imagine typed this.

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8984

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The more CDC and Fauci open their mouths, the worse they make things-pretty much the majority of us here agree to that

kids have been playing with other kids, maskless, for a year. Outdoors.- pretty much the majority of us have agreed with that

School sports are maskless, indoors, for a year in certain states. - pretty much the majority of us agree to that.

The more they use guidelines and recommendations, the more they’re going to get scoffed…more than they already do.


There’s vaccines available to old and fat along with teenagers now. If you haven’t or can’t take a vaccine, the show goes on. It’s gone on precovid when you were unable or unwilling to take vaccines and it goes on now.

What’s the end game? B117 flamed. It was the next big thing but now it’s an afterthought. With vaccines and previous immunity, the virus is running out of hosts as seen by our graphs and positivity percentage.

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bernorange

bernorange 8385

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm actually kind of intrigued by this idea that people shouldn't be held responsible for harming others, though I'm not sure the people espousing it will actually continue to do so if we start taking it seriously.

I started a thread on this topic way back when (March 2020):

 

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26439

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm actually kind of intrigued by this idea that people shouldn't be held responsible for harming others, though I'm not sure the people espousing it will actually continue to do so if we start taking it seriously.

So we all agree that air pollution is bad and I assume you will be the first one giving up your car, right? 

harvey korman GIF

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