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Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

InkaUtexas

By InkaUtexas
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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18,324

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I guess if you so say, it does not.  But you're a fucking idiot.  So it probably does.

The discussion was about whether deaths that would have occurred in 2020 even in abscence of Covid-19 should count in the statistics. Sawbonz made the point that a life shortened even by a few months is still a loss. Your discussion on whether it was worth it to risk getting exposed to covid in order to be with your family isn't a bad one, it just isn't relevant to that conversation. 

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Against my better judgment and several beers deep, I have taken you up on this, potentially ending my streak of totally worthless posts. I have done 3 and 7 day averages only on the Worldometer data. 

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 28,222

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3 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


If I’m LTC with stage 4 cancer I’d really want to be dead, covid or no covid

My hypothetical didn’t involve being in LTC. You added that for some reason. So answer my initial question. Which doesn’t include LTC

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Deej

Deej 77,831

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

Vaccines to Cancer to Kids to Tucker being an idiot to LTCs to non physician assisted suicide. The last two pages of this thread akin to...

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Surly gonna Surly. It's part of this place's appeal. 

Edited by Deej
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Asithappens

Asithappens 978

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, Hate said:

I have a 12 year old that doesn't want the shot either.  He's been at school all year and has hung out with his friends during this entire pandemic. I won't make him get the shot. Damn near every one else that he interacts with has had the vaccine, so I'm not sure we will make him get the shot.  

I don't understand this. 

It's like we've gone full retard on how viruses work. 

My 12 yo doesn't want a shot so I'm ok with it. 

Fucking parents nowadays. Grow a pair and do the right thing. For him and everyone else. Jesus.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23,720

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I totally understand the perspective of parents that want their kids vaccinated ASAP, and also the perspective of those that are hesitant about jumping in right away.  The risk/benefit analysis on this one is challenging and much less clear cut than for adults and those over 15yo. 

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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34 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I totally understand the perspective of parents that want their kids vaccinated ASAP, and also the perspective of those that are hesitant about jumping in right away.  The risk/benefit analysis on this one is challenging and much less clear cut than for adults and those over 15yo. 

Agree with all of this. 
 

Kids aren’t the obese superspreaders that we need to squash out. They get it less, transmit it less, and are almost never seriously harmed by it. On the safety side, their bodies are still developing and it makes sense to me that they would theoretically be more prone to longer term consequences of these new vaccines that are currently unknown. (there may not be any)

 

As an aside, there’s two ends of the covid parenting spectrum that are equally weird to me. “My kid can’t wait to get his mask off!” And, “My kid is super pumped for the new covid vaccine!” Both are the result of parents projecting their obsessions onto their kids that would likely never have cared either way. 

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 28,222

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13 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Moderna said its Covid-19 vaccine is 96% effective in kids ages 12 to 17, according to early data released with the company’s first-quarter earnings Thursday.

 

What do they say about the 5 and 10 year safety outcomes?

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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I am so glad we waited on ten years of Polio vaccination studies before administering it to children.  Really saved a lot of Irish kids lives.  

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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actually it all started in 1935.  the Salk version has a much shorter narrative.  

Still, I'm not getting one because like Covid-19 and the Flu, Polio is just a bad limp.  

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18,324

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6 minutes ago, Hate said:

It took five years from the first human trials to approval for the polio vaccine. 

Yeah, we did wait for quite some time. And a lot of people got sick or died in the 50s as a result. And, as terrible as it sounds, it was the right call at the time. 

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Hate

Hate 20,249

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Why is it so difficult for some of you to understand that there are some people hesitant to give their children a vaccine that is one year away from the first human trials and only six months from the first child trials? Everyone my son interacts with on a daily basis is either wearing a mask like him, outside, or already vaccinated. Who is he potentially spreading this to? For whatever reason, kids don’t seem to spread this particular disease that much and it hardly impacts them if they do get it. And if he has already gotten it then he has natural immunity.

And for the record I have not said we won’t get it for him. So fuck off.

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 28,222

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1 hour ago, Lobo said:

I am so glad we waited on ten years of Polio vaccination studies before administering it to children.  Really saved a lot of Irish kids lives.  

Um I don’t think you want to hold up the development of polio vaccines as a prime example of how to do it. 

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Hefeweizen

Hefeweizen 5,444

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7 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Um I don’t think you want to hold up the development of polio vaccines as a prime example of how to do it. 

The trials in the US were pretty disastrous as I recall from reading.  But Russia pretty much skipped  the trial and inoculated their entire population using the us vaccine with us knowledge right?  So considering the timeframe still an impressive achievement.  And I think correlation of polio which disproportionately affects children with Covid which disproportionately doesn’t is really flawed.

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301

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15 hours ago, gyroprotagonist said:

just so we are clear, no one is going to defend Tucker on this, right? Or is anyone here truly saying to themselves, "you know, he has point.  I bet tomorrow another 30 people will keel over dead post injection from the vax"?

I figured there would be a stronger reaction from both sides from this despicable attempt to sabotage people getting vaxxed.  

Why did you think a group of people that spent 2 weeks in an absolute RAGE about a black basketball player’s tweet (DESIGNED TO PUSH A DANGEROUS AND DIVISIVE FALSE NARRATIVE!!!) would even blink an eye when a white republican would do the same?

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Hate

Hate 20,249

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Posted

Nobody here has defended it.  I would think that most posters (definitely me) have to come here to find out what Tucker Carlson said.  That's the only time I am aware of anything he says or does. 

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301

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4 minutes ago, Hate said:

Nobody here has defended it.  I would think that most posters (definitely me) have to come here to find out what Tucker Carlson said.  That's the only time I am aware of anything he says or does. 

oh well, the wait continues for the outrage at SPREADING FALSE NARRATIVES DESIGNED TO SOW FEAR AND DIVISION!

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Armybrat

Armybrat 41,408

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Lobo said:

actually it all started in 1935.  the Salk version has a much shorter narrative.  

Still, I'm not getting one because like Covid-19 and the Flu, Polio is just a bad limp.  

And the Salk version was superseded by the Sabin vaccine.

 

Edited by Armybrat
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phdhorn

phdhorn 6,225

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Yup.  The development the first reliable, commercially-released vaccine took over 20 years and in all that time there were a few millions of human trials, never mind what other countries (who, imagine this, were secretive about their experimentation) did.

Salk's (commercially released 1955) vaccine "only" had about 3 years of organized testing on humans, but it also followed 20+ years of other research.  And in his vaccine, there were large number of people who died, I think in the six figures (largely due to a lab screwing up the serum).  Sabin's (1961) ended up being the baseline which has lasted in an only-slightly modified form up to the present day.

Of course it's ludicrous to in almost any way compare modern vaccine development to these early achievements - medicine was comparatively primitive back then, and all that time and millions of inoculations were needed to get to a reasonable solution.  And, it's important to understand that the entire science of vaccines now has advanced such that what seems safe "only" after 10-15 years of development is becoming obsolete - clinical trials etc. are beginning to rapidly speed up the time to a fraction of the original polio window.

Nevertheless the polio vaccine was a remarkable achievement - yeah, it killed a lot more people on the way, but given the knowledge at the time, it was about the best one could hope for.  Today however it would be almost criminally reckless to use those methods.

All that said and done, there's still risk and this vaccine was developed more quickly than would be the ideal - and there are risks.  I wouldn't want to do most vaccines at this speed, but at least it's nice to know they can at times pull it off if they have to, so it seems.

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BrazilHorn

BrazilHorn 6,846

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14 hours ago, Lobo said:

actually it all started in 1935.  the Salk version has a much shorter narrative.  

Still, I'm not getting one because like Covid-19 and the Flu, Polio is just a bad limp.  

difference is polio was crippling kids. There is no evidence that CV19 is doing shit to them if they catch it. I will probably have my kids get the vaccine, but to me it is not critical they get it as it is much more important for people who actually do get sick and die (BMI 40+ & people over 60 years old) to get it. Fix that group first before we start worrying about kids.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8,397

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19 hours ago, Newdoc said:

Vaccines to Cancer to Kids to Tucker being an idiot to LTCs to non physician assisted suicide. The last two pages of this thread akin to...

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Tucker 100% wrong on the vaccine issue.  The vaccine is the silver bullet.  We need to act accordingly.

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