Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[JimmyJames 12271]

21 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

My wife and I that are right of center politically got the vaccine very early on, definitely earlier than we should have, but right place right time etc. 

Parents in late 60’s that lean left got it as soon as they could as well. 

Brother and one sister and their spouses opted not to get it who both lean way right. Brother and most of his family got covid early on and won’t get the vaccine, I guess because they think the natural immunity covers them. Sister and BIL won’t get it because he doesn’t trust it, and sister is trying to get pregnant and she isn”t sure about effects on fertility. (She’s had lots of pregnancy troubles)

Other sister is wayyy left of center politically, I’m talking dyed short hair, granola Subaru left, and she won’t come to family gatherings until everyone has been vaccinated. Optimal outcome as no one likes that sister anyways.

No real point to this other than to say it’s interesting how varied opinions on covid and the vaccine can be even within one family.

My family is all over the map politically and I don’t know a single one who hasn’t gotten the vaccine except the kids too young to get it. The only ones who even hesitated were my 70 plus year old parents who waited for the J&J one to become available for some strange reason.
 

Only know one family member who actually got Covid and that was an elderly aunt who unfortunately passed from it last summer before vaccines. She wasn’t in a good condition before catching it. 

[Enchubben 5600]

27 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Lol she may have made the same calculation

100%. It’s mutual. 

[SizzleChest 8313]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

this study from Uk has some interesting info on comorbidities of kids that do poorly. More than half of the kids that died had complex neurological issues, mostly genetic. So these are severely, chronically ill kids. 

So, here's a hypothetical scenario - how would you deal with a situation where a child gets COVID, handles it easily, but manages to infect an unvaccinated adult family member (assuming for the sake of argument that the adult family member had no other health issues that would preclude vaccination), who then dies from COVID?  Would the child be able to process that their adult family member was foolish for not protecting themselves?  Or would the child instead process feelings of massive guilt / responsibility for infecting and causing the death of the adult family member? 

 

[Enchubben 5600]

1 minute ago, SizzleChest said:

So, here's a hypothetical scenario - how would you deal with a situation where a child gets COVID, handles it easily, but manages to infect an unvaccinated adult family member (assuming for the sake of argument that the adult family member had no other health issues that would preclude vaccination), who then dies from COVID?  Would the child be able to process that their adult family member was foolish for not protecting themselves?  Or would the child instead process feelings of massive guilt / responsibility for infecting and causing the death of the adult family member? 

 

Not sure you could 100% determine that the adult got it from the child as I doubt the unvaccinated adult was sheltering in place. Child and adult could have gotten it from the same place and therefore it’s not the child’s fault. That’s how I would communicate it to the child anyways.

[SizzleChest 8313]

13 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Yeah I saw that. It’s going to happen. Btw you seem to hate on natural immunity, I wonder how many re-infections there were? Was it more or less than the 6 vaccinated positives that happened? Would be interesting to know.

You seem to struggle with the concept that a positive test for a vaccinated person does not have the same impacts vis a vis transmissibility and clinical effect as a positive test for an unvaccinated individual.

[SizzleChest 8313]

1 minute ago, Enchubben said:

Not sure you could 100% determine that the adult got it from the child as I doubt the unvaccinated adult was sheltering in place. Child and adult could have gotten it from the same place and therefore it’s not the child’s fault. That’s how I would communicate it to the child anyways.

That wasn't my point.  A child isn't going to think about it like that.  That's how an adult would think about it.  

[Sawbonz 28195]

On 7/8/2021 at 7:42 PM, Lobo said:

Nah, I used Buca because it reminded me of that crazy rant that poster went on about 15+ years ago after he took a date there

Fat Bastard?

[MNLonghornFUKM 8975]

Pics of left leaning sis?

[Enchubben 5600]

1 minute ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Pics of left leaning sis?

I wouldn’t impose looking at my sister on my worst enemy.

Its basically this lady 20 years younger plus 4” and 100 lbs.

42E4EB73-91C4-4E27-85BF-A199A8DE590D.webp

[Sawbonz 28195]

31 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

positive test for a vaccinated person does not have the same impacts vis a vis transmissibility and clinical effect as a positive test for an unvaccinated individual.

I believe he’s talking about natural immunity versus Vaxxed. Do you have a link showing there is a different rate of transmissibility with breakthrough infections between the groups?

[SizzleChest 8313]

6 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I believe he’s talking about natural immunity versus Vaxxed. Do you have a link showing there is a different rate of transmissibility with breakthrough infections between the groups?

I didn't think he was strictly referring to natural vs. vaccine immunity, because the source of the response was about a church camp breakout.  There are no studies that I am aware of comparing transmissibility and clinical effect in natural vs. vaccine primary immunity.  We do know that people who had a severe bout of COVID-19 do have stronger immunity than those who did not, but that immunity is still not as strong and long-lasting as vaccines (due to the vaccines specifically targeting the spike protein).

[Sawbonz 28195]

29 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

do know that people who had a severe bout of COVID-19 do have stronger immunity than those who did not, but that immunity is still not as strong and long-lasting as vaccine

Again you are going to need to link a clinical study that shows an increase in breakthrough infections in the natural immunity cohort vs vax. I have not seen this

Edited July 10, 2021 by Sawbonz

[Anastasis 23716]

21 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Again you are going to need to link a clinical study that shows an increase in breakthrough infections in the natural immunity cohort vs vax. I have not seen this

I don't think that there is any data on COVID at this point, but generally speaking, I am under the impression that natural immunity generally generates a more robust protection than vaccine-based immunity. I haven't really lit searched this but natural immunity would seem to me to result in an immune response to multiple components of the virus, compared to the C19 vaccines we are using that generate a response to only a stabilized spike. 

[SizzleChest 8313]

28 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Again you are going to need to link a clinical study that shows an increase in breakthrough infections in the natural immunity cohort vs vax. I have not seen this

That's because there aren't any.  But is a clinical study going to be conclusive?  The most confounding factor is it's very difficult to gauge natural immunity.

Novavax came the closest in one of their clinical studies, but it wasn't conclusive:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/02/05/virus-variant-reinfection-south-africa/

You can design a trial that includes people who tested positive for COVID and those that didn't and were mRNA vaccinated.  But, I don't know that you'll gain anything substantive because the technology to measure natural immunity is not as robust as the technology to measure vaccine immunity.  That's just based on what I've read and know from people I know in the industry.  One of the primary working theories is that because the vaccines, and particularly the mRNA vaccines with the two dose regimen, target primarily the spike protein, the vaccines have better and longer lasting immunity.  Does that mean there aren't cases where an individual person with natural immunity is better protected?  No, but until it's actually possible to study it effectively, I'll continue to believe that vaccine immunity is better.  Natural immunity will provide protections, but maybe for a variety of antigens, not specifically the spike protein.  Basically, natural immunity = crapshoot; vaccine immunity=better than a coin flip.

As an aside, it does appear that the best immunity is COVID infected + two doses of mRNA, but again, that's more theoretical.  But it makes sense.

[DaysOff 8198]

For the umpteenth time - vaccinating kids isn't about protecting that individual child, it's about removing vectors for COVID to mutate and be transmitted and spread so that we can stamp it out or at least get on top of it. 
It's impressive how you have consistently been underselling COVID and posting against every public health measure. 

18 months. It doesn't matter how many times you tell these dumbfucks this.

[Sawbonz 28195]

46 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

That's because there aren't any.  But is a clinical study going to be conclusive?  The most confounding factor is it's very difficult to gauge natural immunity.

Novavax came the closest in one of their clinical studies, but it wasn't conclusive:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/02/05/virus-variant-reinfection-south-africa/

You can design a trial that includes people who tested positive for COVID and those that didn't and were mRNA vaccinated.  But, I don't know that you'll gain anything substantive because the technology to measure natural immunity is not as robust as the technology to measure vaccine immunity.  That's just based on what I've read and know from people I know in the industry.  One of the primary working theories is that because the vaccines, and particularly the mRNA vaccines with the two dose regimen, target primarily the spike protein, the vaccines have better and longer lasting immunity.  Does that mean there aren't cases where an individual person with natural immunity is better protected?  No, but until it's actually possible to study it effectively, I'll continue to believe that vaccine immunity is better.  Natural immunity will provide protections, but maybe for a variety of antigens, not specifically the spike protein.  Basically, natural immunity = crapshoot; vaccine immunity=better than a coin flip.

As an aside, it does appear that the best immunity is COVID infected + two doses of mRNA, but again, that's more theoretical.  But it makes sense.

That’s  a lot of words to say we don’t know. Which is my point.  As I said above, I would have gotten the vaccine whether or not I had contracted COVID-19. But I do not fault people who choose not to, having had the disease. Also mentioned upthread is the possible added benefit of T cell immunity after covid infection. T cell immunity actually is believed to confer the most immunity to the common coronaviruses, Although I have not seen studies specific to sars 1 or sars 2

 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Sawbonz

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19305]

For the umpteenth time - vaccinating kids isn't about protecting that individual child, it's about removing vectors for COVID to mutate and be transmitted and spread so that we can stamp it out or at least get on top of it. 
It's impressive how you have consistently been underselling COVID and posting against every public health measure. 

Stop trying. GRHorn is a complete moron. Actually, that is an insult to morons.

[Anastasis 23716]

4 hours ago, Captainant said:

For the umpteenth time - vaccinating kids isn't about protecting that individual child, it's about removing vectors for COVID to mutate and be transmitted and spread so that we can stamp it out or at least get on top of it. 

Know how I know that you do not have any kids?

While your point is accurate and appropriate, this is not messaging that is going to resonate fully with a good number of parents in the setting of a novel vaccine that has no mid- or long-term safety data in children. You need an argument built around individualized risk/benefit, imo, as this is how most parents are going to approach the issue with their kids. That's not an easy nut to crack in kids <15yo tbh. Most parents are going to balance the public health argument with an individual assessment based on their own child's (and family's) circumstances. Some will jump in with both feet, some will never want their kids vaxed, but the vast majority, esp with younger kids in my experience, are weighing the risks and benefits.  

Edited July 10, 2021 by Anastasis

[SizzleChest 8313]

47 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

That’s  a lot of words to say we don’t know. Which is my point.  As I said above, I would have gotten the vaccine whether or not I had contracted COVID-19. But I do not fault people who choose not to, having had the disease. Also mentioned upthread is the possible added benefit of T cell immunity after covid infection. T cell immunity actually is believed to confer the most immunity to the common coronaviruses, Although I have not seen studies specific to sars 1 or sars 2

 

 

That’s a lot of words to say you don’t know anything either.

Edited July 10, 2021 by SizzleChest

[Sawbonz 28195]

16 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

That’s a lot of words to say you don’t know anything either.

 

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

we don’t know.

[GRHorn 105]

5 hours ago, Captainant said:

For the umpteenth time - vaccinating kids isn't about protecting that individual child, it's about removing vectors for COVID to mutate and be transmitted and spread so that we can stamp it out or at least get on top of it. 

It's impressive how you have consistently been underselling COVID and posting against every public health measure. 

Triggered pretty hard by an informative post with new info from a nationwide study? Interesting. 
 

My thoughts on Key public health measures

I think almost all adults should get vaccinated, excluding specifically people with natural immunity.

I was for masks before the vaccines came out  

I was against school closures. That was probably correct. 
 

I’m more cautious towards immunization of kids, especially 12 and under.

I don’t think these are radical positions.  
 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by GRHorn

[Guest Lobo]

What about this Rubella thing?  Is it like a bad horsefly bite or what ? 

[Don Johnson 4847]

Right leaning. Vaxxed. Parents both vaxxed. In laws all vaxxed (minus 1 of 9). Brothers and spouses vaxxed. Everyone did it the very first day they could. 

No real interest in getting kids vaxxed. Oldest being my son and nephew at 12. My kids were all in school all year. Played football, soccer, basketball and baseball. Been to multiple camps, spent nights out, etc.  Of the 200+ kids we interact with, I think I’ve known of 4 that had covid, and they only know because their teacher had it and had to get tested.  None of the kids in their classrooms ever knowingly had it.  If other kids had it, it was asymptotic and never lead to outbreaks. 

I’m not 100% against it by any means. Just see no reason to rush and get it. 

[jimmyjazz 47125]

7 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Oldest being my son and nephew at 12.

Your son is your nephew?  You're from Arkansas, right?

[Don Johnson 4847]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Your son is your nephew?  You're from Arkansas, right?

It’s complicated…

But to be clear, the oldest of the kids in the family are my 12 year old son, and my brother’s  12 year old son. Two different children. 

[Guest Lobo]

So there was one?

[mdleast 8521]

The doctor is the son’s mother

[GRHorn 105]

On 7/9/2021 at 12:35 PM, Captainant said:

From the new CDC guidance:

I can hear the REEEEE from DT already - and this is good guidance to emphasize that natural immunity is not sufficient, and we should use every tool in our toolbox to fight the virus

Interesting online poll results. Especially considering the account posting the poll. 
 

 

[DaysOff 8198]

I'd rather live in a state without conspiracy believing dumbfucks.

[GRHorn 105]

3 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

I'd rather live in a state without conspiracy believing dumbfucks.

What are you referencing? 

[JimmyJames 12271]

11 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Interesting online poll results. Especially considering the account posting the poll. 
 

 

Actually that’s pretty uninteresting. But thanks for posting anyway.

[JimmyJames 12271]

Would you rather live in a state where blowjobs are free?
 

blowjobs are free.              50 percent 

blowjobs are not free.       50 percent 

Interesting study. 

[GRHorn 105]

Pretty much the people you would expect. Median age of vaxxed and hospitalized is 71. Median time from second dose to hospitalization is 40 days. 

[GRHorn 105]

This sucks. 

 

[jimmyjazz 47125]

I am extremely skeptical about these local "breakthrough" events.  I would put it at 50/50 that those dipshits either weren't vaccinated or didn't get their 2nd dose.

It's just a gut feel, but when I see this many spike cases among "vaccinated" communities, yet the overall numbers are impressive, I question the narrative.

[babysdaddy 2731]

Not a NYT subscriber so can't read the article but I'm pretty sure all the Yanks were J&J.  I also thin testing protocols are contributing to these positive tests.  Wager these pitchers had zero symptoms but were tested as part of MLB rules.  

 

Is there any data about vaccinated individuals spreading the disease?

[Gatorubet 30710]

I am extremely skeptical about these local "breakthrough" events.  I would put it at 50/50 that those dipshits either weren't vaccinated or didn't get their 2nd dose.
It's just a gut feel, but when I see this many spike cases among "vaccinated" communities, yet the overall numbers are impressive, I question the narrative.

Maybe. I was 3 months post second shot and got 2 days of low fever and felt tired. Soon thereafter they found I had numerous DVT and PEs. I was lucky they did a CT scan to check on post-chemo cancer status or I would not have known.

One of my staff’s bf was not vaccinated. He came down with 104 fever and almost hospitalized from Covid. His live in gf was months post second shot - but noticed she could not smell. She tested positive for Covid. Her doc said Delta re-infects are getting common. Good news being, most are mild and no deaths or hospitalizations.

[GRHorn 105]

On 7/10/2021 at 1:00 PM, Sawbonz said:

Again you are going to need to link a clinical study that shows an increase in breakthrough infections in the natural immunity cohort vs vax. I have not seen this

 Not a clinical study, but there is data coming out of Israel that isn’t being discussed here at all, possibly because it’s released in Hebrew. Here’s a good breakdown of delta in Israel. 

And the relevant portion on natural Immunity. 
 

Who isn’t getting Delta? 

Well, it’s hard to say for sure because of confounders in the data, but it looks like recovered people — people who had tested positive for the coronavirus in a past PCR test — are massively under-represented. Recovered people are around 9% of Israel’s population, but they’re less than 1% of current cases. 

That has led to speculation that recovery from past Covid is more protective against infection from the Delta Variant than vaccination. Known recovered people in Israel are mostly not vaccinated, though some chose to get a single booster dose 

There could be other explanations for this result. The Delta wave is, for now at least, not affecting the communities hardest hit by Israel’s previous Covid waves: Ultra Orthodox Jews and Israeli Arabs. So perhaps recovered people aren’t being exposed to the virus yet. 

But I’m not sure that’s enough to explain the sharp difference. From data I was passed last week, recovered people were testing at only 0.1% positivity, compared to more than 1% for vaccinated people. 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by GRHorn

[Gil Bang 26229]

I don't give a fuck if already posted

 

 

[Bevo14 8468]

11 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I don't give a fuck if already posted

 

 

Never go full aggy

[Celery Man 21094]

Is it the delivery mechanism? Why is it that right wing folks are highly suspicious of vaccines provided by science but eager to drink herbal tea from their poisonous shrubs?

 

Sister was up with her family to visit the baby earlier. They were supposed to continue on for a vacation in the northeast but went home because the vaccine suspicious father of their kids’ friends died of Covid in his 50s.

[elfenix 34744]

We're going to need to distinguish between sars-cov-2 and covid-19 for these asymptomatic positives. Like we do for HIV and aids.

[Hookah Horns 3089]

On 7/18/2021 at 1:04 PM, Celery Man said:

Is it the delivery mechanism? Why is it that right wing folks are highly suspicious of vaccines provided by science but eager to drink herbal tea from their poisonous shrubs?

 

Sister was up with her family to visit the baby earlier. They were supposed to continue on for a vacation in the northeast but went home because the vaccine suspicious father of their kids’ friends died of Covid in his 50s.

Their Facebook feeds arent full of fearmongering about herbal tea. 

[Brisketexan 106874]

Their Facebook feeds arent full of fearmongering about herbal tea. 

I swear to god, if those fuckers decide to go after a nice Scottish Breakfast tea or a pleasant and relaxing chamomile, I will cut a bitch.

[tbone_ 14438]

Wonder when insurance companies will stop covering covid treatments for people who aren’t vaccinated.

[Guest Lobo]

1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

Wonder when insurance companies will stop covering covid treatments for people who aren’t vaccinated.

Under socialist medicine, duh! 

[NWBuck 8629]

5 hours ago, tbone_ said:

Wonder when insurance companies will stop covering covid treatments for people who aren’t vaccinated.

When stupidity becomes a preexisting condition. 

[Sawbonz 28195]

I have a patient who is a nurse at the Dallas VA. She’s back to working double shifts because their covid numbers are up so high. Parkland is filling up and thinking about re-opening the Covid Unit, as is Methodist. We are back to masking at the office, seems like the prudent thing to do. 

[Neonmoon 38130]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

I have a patient who is a nurse at the Dallas VA. She’s back to working double shifts because their covid numbers are up so high. Parkland is filling up and thinking about re-opening the Covid Unit, as is Methodist. We are back to masking at the office, seems like the prudent thing to do.