Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Brisketexan 106874]

1 minute ago, Thetexashammer said:

Yes, that was his intent. It was to embarrass the Navy into doing the right thing. What he did was insubordination, that's not up for debate, the only question is whether it was worth it.

Would you like to serve under a commanding officer who would put doing the right thing and your safety above his career?  I would.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8975]

 
 

I need to start prepping myself, mentally.


March madness was already tough enough. This’ll be devastating

[FondrenRoad 4378]

13 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Massachusetts releases this documentation daily of the prior day: https://www.mass.gov/doc/covid-19-cases-in-massachusetts-as-of-april-3-2020/download

It is kind of fascinating to look at, particularly the documentation of the deaths. The blunt reality is that the people dying from this are old and already fucked up. There was a woman in her 30s yesterday that was on the list, but she had pre-existing conditions. There were a few in their 50s today, with preexisting conditions. It's pretty easy to look at prior days by tweaking the URL accordingly.

I think many other places are simply starting to avoid disclosing the death details. I understand why. It causes one to quickly start saying "fuck this shit, keep the olds and seriously ill youngers sheltering in place, but I'd like to get back to work or go see some friends and have a nice seafood dinner and then never call each other gain". Or something.

37.6% of adults have a condition that increases their risk of death if they contract coronavirus. 92 million people. Its better if they don't all hit the ER at once. 

[Enchubben 5600]

3 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Saw this the other day too


Its a few thousand deaths ago for NY but you get the gist of it

I agree. Keep in mind probably a large percentage of America has at least some sort of pre-existing condition

[Pato del Muerto 53451]

5 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Saw this the other day too


Its a few thousand deaths ago for NY but you get the gist of it

That’s great and all but if being fat is one of the underlying conditions then a third of the country is at an elevated risk of death. 

[Skipper 6411]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

37.6% of adults have a condition that increases their risk of death if they contract coronavirus. 92 million people. Its better if they don't all hit the ER at once. 

As broad as I've seen things used for "pre-existing conditions" I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than double that.  Athsma when you were 5 but no problems in the last 40 years? Welp, chalk it up to a "pre-existing condition".

[Dahobbs 18304]

1 minute ago, Enchubben said:

I agree. Keep in mind probably a large percentage of America has at least some sort of pre-existing condition

Half of US adults have heart disease. 

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2019/01/31/cardiovascular-diseases-affect-nearly-half-of-american-adults-statistics-show

Seriously, finding someone in this country without a pre-existing condition of some sort is going to be difficult. 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Would you like to serve under a commanding officer who would put doing the right thing and your safety above his career?  I would.

In your world, purposeless virtue signalling is a great and glorious achievement. Indeed, it is the Rosetta Stone of your existence. In the real world, it gets people killed. I don't want a commander who abandoned their ship in its time of greatest need.

 

[Jiggy-Z 3509]

3 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That’s great and all but if being fat is one of the underlying conditions then a third of the country is at an elevated risk of death. 

I don't see that(fat) as one of the underlying conditions.  It has been mentioned as a factor in other countries though.  Possibly (definitely) some overlap with the diabetes. 

[UDontKnow 10568]

 A little comic relief thanks to Malaysia:

Don't Nag Your Husband During Lockdown, Malaysia's Government Advises Women

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/01/825051317/dont-nag-your-husband-during-lock-down-malaysias-government-advises-women

Maybe they are worried about a spike in divorce rate?

[Thetexashammer 1062]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Half of US adults have heart disease. 

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2019/01/31/cardiovascular-diseases-affect-nearly-half-of-american-adults-statistics-show

Seriously, finding someone in this country without a pre-existing condition of some sort is going to be difficult. 

Fake news, and I'm not even going to click the link.

[ABSR 5369]

38 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

assistant to the assistant night manager!

And that's when the BIG BUCKS start rolling in. 

[Pato del Muerto 53451]

3 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

 A little comic relief thanks to Malaysia:

Don't Nag Your Husband During Lockdown, Malaysia's Government Advises Women

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/01/825051317/dont-nag-your-husband-during-lock-down-malaysias-government-advises-women

Maybe they are worried about a spike in divorce rate?

Probably murder rate spike. It’s Malaysia. 

[Brisketexan 106874]

1 minute ago, Thetexashammer said:

In your world, purposeless virtue signalling is a great and glorious achievement. Indeed, it is the Rosetta Stone of your existence. In the real world, it gets people killed. I don't want a commander who abandoned their ship in its time of greatest need.

 

Given a choice between doing nothing -- which is what he had the power to do without assistance from the Navy -- and doing what he did, he put the lives of his crew first.

They weren't in the middle of taking on fire from an enemy.  They were being decimated from within the ship, without the resources from above that they needed.  His decision -- made in THE REAL WORLD -- didn't get anyone killed.  Instead, it was the only decision that created the opportunity to save lives.

Your problem is that you think that anything virtuous is "virtue signaling," and you'd rather we just take our fucking like obedient bitches.

[dcar00 14947]

the big one is hypertension.  1 in 3 adults but that number includes everyone even people that appear in great health can have it.

the basic reality is probably over 60 is a potential problem if you get it.  everyone else much much lower.  we are protecting spreading it to more older people so the system doesn't get overwhelmed at once.

 

[UDontKnow 10568]

11 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That’s great and all but if being fat is one of the underlying conditions then a third of the country is at an elevated risk of death. 

Being fat predisposes one to all the underlying conditions: diabetes, hypertension, hyperlipidemia - all of which cause heart disease. That's why the statistic that close to half of the American population suffers from type of cardiovascular disease is accurate and bears closer examination.

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2019/01/31/cardiovascular-diseases-affect-nearly-half-of-american-adults-statistics-show (courtesy of @Dahobbs) 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Given a choice between doing nothing -- which is what he had the power to do without assistance from the Navy -- and doing what he did, he put the lives of his crew first.

He had other, reasonable, choices which didn't involve insubordination.

Quote

They weren't in the middle of taking on fire from an enemy.  They were being decimated from within the ship, without the resources from above that they needed.  His decision -- made in THE REAL WORLD -- didn't get anyone killed.  Instead, it was the only decision that created the opportunity to save lives.

His commanders were aware of those circumstances and made a decision. He had a duty to follow orders. Or he could have resigned. Or docked the ship somewhere, disobeying orders. He had choices, and he chose insubordination. Which may have been worth it, I don't know, but you aren't making an argument that it was. 

[BrazilHorn 6822]

15 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

37.6% of adults have a condition that increases their risk of death if they contract coronavirus. 92 million people. Its better if they don't all hit the ER at once. 

 

14 minutes ago, Skipper said:

As broad as I've seen things used for "pre-existing conditions" I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than double that.  Athsma when you were 5 but no problems in the last 40 years? Welp, chalk it up to a "pre-existing condition".

I think this is due mostly to just how disgustingly fat the US is overall. The bulk of pre-existing conditions probably stem from the extra 200lbs most Americans seem to be lugging around. Drop the weight and a lot of it goes away sans drugs.

[aggie08 21792]

7 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Probably murder rate spike. It’s Malaysia. 

Is murdering your wife illegal in Malaysia?  (only half-kidding)

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

5 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

the basic reality is probably over 60 is a potential problem if you get it.  everyone else much much lower. 

For the country as a whole, that's probably true, but the numbers in the South are worse, and obesity/diabetes/heart disease are why. Lots of under 60s dying in Louisiana et al. because of being blubber-butts. Sad, but true.

[Pancho 46267]

If you have Twitter, please repost or like this so the police can arrest these fucking idiots

 

[Murfdogg21 4563]

2 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

I've mentioned these several times but didn't put a link. These are also available from REI and probably from other sports stores.

Buff Men's CoolNet UV+ Texas Multifunctional Headwear | Academy
https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/buff-mens-coolnet-uv-texas-multifunctional-headwear

How about wearing a Green Man suit everywhere?

[aggie08 21792]

1 minute ago, BrazilHorn said:

I think this is due mostly to just how disgustingly fat the US is overall. The bulk of pre-existing conditions probably stem from the extra 200lbs most Americans seem to be lugging around. Drop the weight and a lot of it goes away sans drugs.

Yeah, I got a (depressing) kick out of talk that Italy was an outlier because they have an older population skew.  Bitch, whatever they've got in age-related vulnerabilities, we've got covered tenfold in fatties.

[Guest Lobo]

5 minutes ago, Pancho said:

If you have Twitter, please repost or like this so the police can arrest these fucking idiots

 

We honestly felt bad when, race aside, he was unfortunately involved in a single-car drunk driving accident later tonight.  Honestly, a damn damn shame.  Christ almighty, I read that he went through the windshield too.  What a fucking tragedy.  I honestly doubt you ever hear from this young man ever, ever again.

[bolverk 30313]

18 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Fake news, and I'm not even going to click the link.

I bet that's what you said when you decided to take a vacation to northern Italy in the middle of a pandemic, too.

[dcar00 14947]

2 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

He had other, reasonable, choices which didn't involve insubordination.

His commanders were aware of those circumstances and made a decision. He had a duty to follow orders. Or he could have resigned. Or docked the ship somewhere, disobeying orders. He had choices, and he chose insubordination. Which may have been worth it, I don't know, but you aren't making an argument that it was. 

also, was his ship being decimated?  I presume these were mostly healthy young people on the ship?  the military is a different place from the rest of society.  you follow orders or you resign, I think, and let the next guy take over.  many men have had to follow orders in which they know people will die.  yes, I understand that they weren't in a battle or war.  does the military code of conduct care?

[aggie08 21792]

5 minutes ago, Pancho said:

If you have Twitter, please repost or like this so the police can arrest these fucking idiots

 

Man, I get that there are those who just like to watch the world burn and will just get off on the vitriol that this video will create, but at least be creative in your trolling.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

Just now, bolverk said:

I bet that's what you said when you decided to take a vacation to northern Italy in the middle of a pandemic, too.

Wrong, as usual. Who the fuck said I was on vacation? Are you a complete idiot?

[dcar00 14947]

11 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

For the country as a whole, that's probably true, but the numbers in the South are worse, and obesity/diabetes/heart disease are why. Lots of under 60s dying in Louisiana et al. because of being blubber-butts. Sad, but true.

yes, extremely obese is a problem no matter what, mainly because they probably have at least 3 of the others, diabetes, hypertension, heart disease

Edited April 3, 2020 by dcar00

[Dahobbs 18304]

22 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Fake news, and I'm not even going to click the link.

Am I missing sarcasm of some sort? The link is to the American Heart Association. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4075]

I think we tell ourselves 'old' and 'pre-existing conditions' to make ourselves feel better, because there are stories like this out there:

 

Quote

 

A 32-year old Los Angeles woman has been identified as the fourth Salvadoran immigrant to die in the U.S. after being infected by the coronavirus, according to that country’s consulate.

In a report by the local Telemundo station, her family said Jéssica Beatriz Cortez immigrated to the U.S. three years ago. Her brother said that she was diagnosed with COVID-19 one day last week and died the next.

“She began by complaining about body aches, that she felt a heaviness and fatigue,” said Cesar Cortez in an interview with the television station.

He said his sister showed up to work on March 23, but shortly after began to feel symptoms that included body pain and chills.

Cortez said the family was surprised by how quickly she went from feeling ill to dying. She was hospitalized on Friday, he said, and died the very next day.

“This all happened in less than a week,” Cortez said. “I got a call that she was in very grave condition… I left what I was doing and went to the hospital and when I got there, she had already passed away.”

He said the worst part was knowing that no one could be with his sister as her life slipped away.

“That’s the hardest part,” Cortez said. “That she died alone.”

He said he did not think the family would even be able to witness his sister’s cremation.

Consular officials told the Los Angeles Times that along with Jéssica Beatriz Cortez, three other Salvadoran immigrants have died in New York.

https://www.latimes.com./california/story/2020-04-02/salvadoran-woman-dies-quickly-from-coronavirus

 

 

I understand the majority of the victims are older, but it sure seems to randomly take out seemingly healthy younger people as well, even if in smaller numbers.

[Enchubben 5600]

4 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Yeah, I got a (depressing) kick out of talk that Italy was an outlier because they have an older population skew.  Bitch, whatever they've got in age-related vulnerabilities, we've got covered tenfold in fatties.

well i'd rather fuck a fatty than an elderly person so suck it italy.   

 

*unless that old person is Christie Brinkley

[Pancho 46267]

1 minute ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I think we tell ourselves 'old' and 'pre-existing conditions' to make ourselves feel better, because there are stories like this out there:

 

 

I understand the majority of the victims are older, but it sure seems to randomly take out seemingly healthy younger people as well, even if in smaller numbers.

We don’t know that she was “healthy” from that story.

[Pancho 46267]

 

[bolverk 30313]

3 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Wrong, as usual. Who the fuck said I was on vacation? Are you a complete idiot?

Fake news.

[dcar00 14947]

by the way, the underlying condition is a big reason why I think Korea was able to get this under control along with having been through SARS

[Brisketexan 106874]

15 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

He had other, reasonable, choices which didn't involve insubordination.

His commanders were aware of those circumstances and made a decision. He had a duty to follow orders. Or he could have resigned. Or docked the ship somewhere, disobeying orders. He had choices, and he chose insubordination. Which may have been worth it, I don't know, but you aren't making an argument that it was. 

If only he'd been a war criminal.  THOSE are the kinds of soldiers/sailors to be celebrated these days.

For fuck's sake. He did the right fucking thing.  He sacrificed his career to do so.  He has honor.  I understand that you are shocked by such a thing.

[Hate 20247]

Take it for what it’s worth. I’m sure our resident Surly experts  were privy to what the Navy’s plan was, so I’m sure this is just a cover up.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/reuters/status/1245842193547325440

[MC Fresh Breath 4075]

4 minutes ago, Pancho said:

We don’t know that she was “healthy” from that story.

That's true.  I picked a random one, but how do we know she wasn't? Edit:  sorry, that sounds  argumentative.  Not trying to argue, I've just seen reports/posts of young people who seemed otherwise healthy dying.  

Edited April 3, 2020 by MC Fresh Breath

[stork642 4511]

40 minutes ago, Js1 said:

 

 

Probably shouldn’t rely on anything this guys says because there is no way we will have a vaccine by July.   This is a ridiculous conclusion.    

[DaysOff 8198]

In your world, purposeless virtue signalling is a great and glorious achievement. Indeed, it is the Rosetta Stone of your existence. In the real world, it gets people killed. I don't want a commander who abandoned their ship in its time of greatest need.
 

Their greatest need was to dock in Guam and get the sick guys off. The Japs aren't coming over the horizon.

[Brisketexan 106874]

3 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

Oh, Alabama -- thanks for showing that tip-of-the-spear leadership we've come to expect from you.  Perhaps next you'd like to inform your population that this illness is not due to the imbalance of humors?

[Thetexashammer 1062]

6 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

37 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

In your world, purposeless virtue signalling is a great and glorious achievement. Indeed, it is the Rosetta Stone of your existence. In the real world, it gets people killed. I don't want a commander who abandoned their ship in its time of greatest need.
 

Their greatest need was to dock in Guam and get the sick guys off. The Japs aren't coming over the horizon.

And if he had told his command "I'm docking in Guam", what would they have done? Maybe they would not have relieved him. I don't know. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Thetexashammer

[stork642 4511]

10 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Man, I get that there are those who just like to watch the world burn and will just get off on the vitriol that this video will create, but at least be creative in your trolling.

Jokes on him.  I’m sure someone already pissed in every one of those. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

24 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

 

I think this is due mostly to just how disgustingly fat the US is overall. The bulk of pre-existing conditions probably stem from the extra 200lbs most Americans seem to be lugging around. Drop the weight and a lot of it goes away sans drugs.

Well yeah. We are like the people on the spaceship in Wall-E.  Car-couch-bed-couch-car-desk. Repeat. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by FondrenRoad

[closetojumping 65379]

1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

37.6% of adults have a condition that increases their risk of death if they contract coronavirus. 92 million people. Its better if they don't all hit the ER at once. 

I assume you know I understand that, from both of us being in this thread for so long, if nothing else. My post wasn't saying "that's what we should do" but saying "It's a human thing that this thought is going to occur with more data like this that we're seeing."

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

As broad as I've seen things used for "pre-existing conditions" I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than double that.  Athsma when you were 5 but no problems in the last 40 years? Welp, chalk it up to a "pre-existing condition".

 

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Half of US adults have heart disease. 

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2019/01/31/cardiovascular-diseases-affect-nearly-half-of-american-adults-statistics-show

Seriously, finding someone in this country without a pre-existing condition of some sort is going to be difficult. 

I think the most frustrating part to this globally for me is the lack of actual information pertaining to how pre-existing conditions are being defined, and how much they should be weighted. I don't think anyone has even attempted to do anything around this subject but offer vagueries and platitudes. That's here in the US, and that's everywhere overseas. I assume it's not agenda-driven, but simply really hard to pin down. That said, if someone is observing the accounting of a death and they assign "pre-existing condition" to the death, they have to know what that condition(s) is, right? Then it could be classified from the bottom up and by now there would be numerous data scientists running math on it and better informing the global public and governments.

Here are perceived "pre-existing conditions" from news and links posted merely from this thread:

-HBP - just generally? or only untreated?

-Diabetes

-Heart disease - like real heart disease with a diagnosis, not clickbait saying half the country is dying right now from heart disease silliness

-Obesity - are we talking being a fatty? having a dad bod? or 350lb-gravy-crusted-body-being-hoisted-out-of-your-concrete-supported-recliner-by-a-crane obese? 

-Smoker

-Heavy drinker

-Asthma

-Drug addiction - is this weed (smoking? edibles?), coke, opioids, what?

-Cancer survivor

I'm highly confident I'm forgetting a few. Then, there are the rumors and unknowns around the following:

-Blood type - is A worse than the others? Is O far better?

-Pollution in a given population

-Gender

-Taking ACE receptors

-Cultural behaviors - greeting with bows vs kisses and hugs vs handshakes

-Population density

-Generational stacking - some places have up to 4 generations living in close quarters with one another in the family residence vs the US where anything resembling that is unusual

It would seem paramount to someone, somewhere in leadership around the globe to be solving for these in some form, right? I mean, let's say somewhere like Germany, which has a relatively open media source (I assume but pay enough attention to know if that's false so fact check) and notoriously methodical as a population. Could they not be releasing very specific information around this to the world? I don't get it. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by closetojumping
forgot about diabetes

[Hate 20247]

I really want to know what they thinks makes one a heavy drinker.

[dcar00 14947]

7 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I assume you know I understand that, from both of us being in this thread for so long, if nothing else. My post wasn't saying "that's what we should do" but saying "It's a human thing that this thought is going to occur with more data like this that we're seeing."

 

I think the most frustrating part to this globally for me is the lack of actual information pertaining to how pre-existing conditions are being defined, and how much they should be weighted. I don't think anyone has even attempted to do anything around this subject but offer vagueries and platitudes. That's here in the US, and that's everywhere overseas. I assume it's not agenda-driven, but simply really hard to pin down. That said, if someone is observing the accounting of a death and they assign "pre-existing condition" to the death, they have to know what that condition(s) is, right? Then it could be classified from the bottom up and by now there would be numerous data scientists running math on it and better informing the global public and governments.

Here are perceived "pre-existing conditions" from news and links posted merely from this thread:

-HBP - just generally? or only untreated?

-Heart disease - like real heart disease with a diagnosis, not clickbait saying half the country is dying right now from heart disease silliness

-Obesity - are we talking being a fatty? having a dad bod? or 350lb-gravy-crusted-body-being-hoisted-out-of-your-concrete-supported-recliner-by-a-crane obese? 

-Smoker

-Heavy drinker

-Asthma

-Drug addiction - is this weed (smoking? edibles?), coke, opioids, what?

-Cancer survivor

I'm highly confident I'm forgetting a few. Then, there are the rumors and unknowns around the following:

-Blood type - is A worse than the others? Is O far better?

-Pollution in a given population

-Gender

-Taking ACE receptors

-Cultural behaviors - greeting with bows vs kisses and hugs vs handshakes

-Population density

-Generational stacking - some places have up to 4 generations living in close quarters with one another in the family residence vs the US where anything resembling that is unusual

It would seem paramount to someone, somewhere in leadership around the globe to be solving for these in some form, right? I mean, let's say somewhere like Germany, which has a relatively open media source (I assume but pay enough attention to know if that's false so fact check) and notoriously methodical as a population. Could they not be releasing very specific information around this to the world? I don't get it. 

I could see this being hte perfect job for the World Health Organiza.....yeah never mind.

[conVINCEd 21477]

2 minutes ago, Hate said:

I really want to know what they thinks makes one a heavy drinker.

I know the questions my doc typically asks about my drinking.  The short answer is that you are a heavy drinker.

[stork642 4511]

44 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Probably murder rate spike. It’s Malaysia. 

What’s the deal.  Malaysia authorities don’t have flamethrowers?