Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[dcar00 14035]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Dr. Faucci ?  January 3 and the president should shut everything down because an alert in China is issued AFTER they'd been saying nothing was wrong right up until they weren't saying that ?

yep.

and then they told everyone it wasn't person to person for 2 more weeks.

 

[DallasGatr 216]

China's government is absolutely a bad actor who fucked it up royally by initially downplaying the disease, but everything that happened after January 3 is absolutely on us.

That’s funny

[Trey3216 15325]

40 minutes ago, bolverk said:

January 3, 2020: Chinese colleagues alert the CDC Director about the virus. 

Chinese colleagues alert CDC Director Robert Redfield on the spread of the unknown and novel virus. Redfield quickly relayed the information to U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar who notified the National Security Council.

https://www.justsecurity.org/69650/timeline-of-the-coronavirus-pandemic-and-u-s-response/

There's much, much more detail in the timeline before and after that brief section I quoted but won't go any further here. I will say,  however, it is very well sourced and extremely comprehensive.

Good thing the WHO, that everyone is so concerned about being defunded, was still telling everyone in the world on Jan 20 that there was no human to human transmission.  Fuck China, and fuck the WHO 

[atomheartbevo 89416]

3 hours ago, rpspeed said:

Guess it depends on location, I'd say its about 20% wearing masks in the Texarkana area, of course the  Arkansas side doesnt have the shelter in place requirement either.

When the folks you quarantine with are not only your family, but also your booty calls, you're not going to care too much about proper public protocols.

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

3 hours ago, Hmmm said:

i'm sure you're correct.  it was an assumption i made based on the video you posted that says the Wuhan lab is "280 meters to be exact from the Huanan seafood market where it was originally claimed to have originated".  

care to clarify?

I can clarify. That’s about 300 yards. 

[atomheartbevo 89416]

3 hours ago, Deej said:

Maybe, but I was told the Congress Avenue bridge bats travel hundreds of miles every night.

They are still looking for the loop.

[atomheartbevo 89416]

1 hour ago, GabrielsHorn said:

El Arroyo posted this earlier but then took it down.

If that's real, wow.  They are just around the corner from UT grad/international student housing.

[Hate 20103]

So? It’s still funny...and a powerful PSA.

[Telegraph_it 3354]

15 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Good thing the WHO, that everyone is so concerned about being defunded, was still telling everyone in the world on Jan 20 that there was no human to human transmission.  Fuck China, and fuck the WHO 

If only the WHO had listened to Taiwan... Damn, too bad they aren’t allowed to participate because China. 

[Fastbreak 3959]

I think the most likely scenario is stating to emerge. It wasn’t a weapon or on purpose. It was an accident by probably a low level researcher. 
 

I think this happened at some point in November. I think the CCP was well aware by mid-December. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Fastbreak said:

I think the most likely scenario is stating to emerge. It wasn’t a weapon or on purpose. It was an accident by probably a low level researcher. 
 

I think this happened at some point in November. I think the CCP was well aware by mid-December. 

That is a theory that has been gaining traction.

[Neonmoon 38127]

17 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

If that's real, wow.  They are just around the corner from UT grad/international student housing.

I think China outlawing it probably means they agree 

[stork642 4498]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

China's government is absolutely a bad actor who fucked it up royally by initially downplaying the disease, but everything that happened after January 3 is absolutely on us.

Good point.  That guy beat the shit out of that girl and then tried to cover it up but after that she did a poor job of handling it.  That makes perfect sense.  Yes it’s a ridiculous analogy but it’s also ridiculous to say well China was bad but we were worse.  

Edited April 17, 2020 by stork642

[gmr548 16502]

Good point.  That guy beat the shit out of that girl and then tried to cover it up but after that she did a poor job of handling it.  That makes perfect sense.  

Wow.

[gmr548 16502]

I think the most likely scenario is stating to emerge. It wasn’t a weapon or on purpose. It was an accident by probably a low level researcher. 
 
I think this happened at some point in November. I think the CCP was well aware by mid-December. 

It's definitely been established that the outbreak in Wuhan probably started in November.

The lab theory is a little much for me to buy right now, and I'm certainly no fan of the Chinese government. Their initial response seems too clueless for that. They didn't seem to comprehend what they were dealing with.

[closetojumping 62230]

2 hours ago, stork642 said:

Well it’s clear the Chinese Government has been lying since this whole corona thing started.  If you are seriously going to point to a conspiracy you are just blinded by ignorance if you choose not to look there first.  They sure are acting like they they trying to cover something up.  I guess it’s just a coincidence.  

Captainant has shown himself to be little more than a fellow traveler when it comes views on the Chinese. To say he’s a sympathizer and an apologist would be an understatement. He actively bawled and campaigned for this thread title to change and remove any reference to China for weeks until the admin capitulated after being tired of his whiny shit. If he can undermine the position that China played a role in all of this, he’s damned sure going to do so. 

Also, bolverk can fuck right off for pushing the same bullshit. 

[atomheartbevo 89416]

3 hours ago, gmr548 said:

Who knows how many broken security/containment protocols broken and/or failed at a BSL 4, but the authoritarian Chinese government initially says "Eh yeah I know there was that thing at the lab, but fuck it, let's do Lunar New Year, we tryina get fucked up."

This despite logically knowing what it was capeable of you some extent, because it came from their lab, and no rational motivation to ignore it... That sounds more likely than some shit nature tends to do every once in a while?

Weren't there folks in Wuhan trying to cover up the extent of it to their superiors in Beijing?

Years ago, I worked with a Chinese guy who was going to grad school at UT, and he fucked up some server configurations for an internal demo we were going to put on.  Long story short, had he told us at the time he fucked up, we could have fixed it and our boss would never have known (we had issues that were much more difficult to work out at the time).  But he didn't, and he tried to fix it on his own, and being that there was Mandarin involved and he was the only one that could read it, we could not verify his claims that his part was working.   When the demo happened and his part of the demo went sideways, our group VP was present (think 7 levels of bosses like in Office Space, with him being the 7th).  

Somehow, the guy wasn't fired, and I talked to him about it later on.  Basically, he was afraid that if we found out he had fucked up, that we would fire him, somehow get him booted out of UT/visa revoked/etc., and so he was going to try his best to cover it up.  I spent a very long lunch explaining that fucking up was not bad if he had admitted to it when it happened, but it was still a hard sell. 

I can just picture some dude at a lab in Wuhan, that was probably being sold to the folks in Beijing as being more secure/safer than it actually was, fucking up, and when shit starts going sideways, his bosses probably trying to cover it up as well, and telling their bosses in Beijing that it was just another SARS outbreak like the ones earlier, and they would have it under control in short order.  That whole culture over there when it comes to cover ups and the like is disturbing.

Edit: Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they put out the bat-eating story to cover up somebody fucking up in a lab that was sold to the rest of the world as being better than it was.

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by atomheartbevo

[WBT 20418]

My problem with this theory is that china would have just waited for an american company to do the bat research and then threatened to kill some chinese national's family back home in order to have him steal it

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Weren't there folks in Wuhan trying to cover up the extent of it to their superiors in Beijing?

Years ago, I worked with a Chinese guy who was going to grad school at UT, and he fucked up some server configurations for an internal demo we were going to put on.  Long story short, had he told us at the time he fucked up, we could have fixed it and our boss would never have known (we had issues that were much more difficult to work out at the time).  But he didn't, and he tried to fix it on his own, and being that there was Mandarin involved and he was the only one that could read it, we could not verify his claims that his part was working.   When the demo happened and his part of the demo went sideways, our group VP was present (think 7 levels of bosses like in Office Space, with him being the 7th).  

Somehow, the guy wasn't fired, and I talked to him about it later on.  Basically, he was afraid that if we found out he had fucked up, that we would fire him, somehow get him booted out of UT/visa revoked/etc., and so he was going to try his best to cover it up.  I spent a very long lunch explaining that fucking up was not bad if he had admitted to it when it happened, but it was still a hard sell. 

I can just picture some dude at a lab in Wuhan, that was probably being sold to the folks in Beijing as being more secure/safer than it actually was, fucking up, and when shit starts going sideways, his bosses probably trying to cover it up as well, and telling their bosses in Beijing that it was just another SARS outbreak like the ones earlier, and they would have it under control in short order.  That whole culture over there when it comes to cover ups and the like is disturbing.

 

 

Where is the woman who was the lead coronavirus researcher in Wuhan ?  She seems to have vanished, along with all her bio on the site at the facility she was heading up.  Patient 0 ?

[bolverk 29399]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Dr. Faucci ?  January 3 and the president should shut everything down because an alert in China is issued AFTER they'd been saying nothing was wrong right up until they weren't saying that ?

 

32 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Good thing the WHO, that everyone is so concerned about being defunded, was still telling everyone in the world on Jan 20 that there was no human to human transmission.  Fuck China, and fuck the WHO 

 

15 minutes ago, Telegraph_it said:

If only the WHO had listened to Taiwan... Damn, too bad they aren’t allowed to participate because China. 

 

13 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

I think the most likely scenario is stating to emerge. It wasn’t a weapon or on purpose. It was an accident by probably a low level researcher. 
 

I think this happened at some point in November. I think the CCP was well aware by mid-December. 

 

10 minutes ago, stork642 said:

Good point.  That guy beat the shit out of that girl and then tried to cover it up but after that she did a poor job of handling it.  That makes perfect sense.  

The National Center for Medical Intelligence, as well as other intelligence agencies, were aware this was a horror show in Wuhan and that China was full of shit. They were issuing reports that it was a grave threat with the potential to become a pandemic in early January.

[dcar00 14035]

8 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Captainant has shown himself to be little more than a fellow traveler when it comes views on the Chinese. To say he’s a sympathizer and an apologist would be an understatement. He actively bawled and campaigned for this thread title to change and remove any reference to China for weeks until the admin capitulated after being tired of his whiny shit. If he can undermine the position that China played a role in all of this, he’s damned sure going to do so. 

Also, bolverk can fuck right off for pushing the same bullshit. 

holy shit! the pussification of humanity continues.  someone whined about a thread title?  maybe I can whine it back to Jap Plays: Chinese Oriental Wuhan Bat Virus no politics allowed.

[dcar00 14035]

5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Where is the woman who was the lead coronavirus researcher in Wuhan ?  She seems to have vanished, along with all her bio on the site at the facility she was heading up.  Patient 0 ?

my guess is China is going to soon be very happy to close down the bat market and blame it on some one armed food handler in an EZ up tent.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

 

 

 

The National Center for Medical Intelligence, as well as other intelligence agencies, were aware this was a horror show in Wuhan and that China was full of shit. They were issuing reports that it was a grave threat with the potential to become a pandemic in early January.

How many western nations heeded the warning, and shut everything down ?  

Edited April 17, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[dcar00 14035]

4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

 

 

 

The National Center for Medical Intelligence, as well as other intelligence agencies, were aware this was a horror show in Wuhan and that China was full of shit. They were issuing reports that it was a grave threat with the potential to become a pandemic in early January.

well then what the fuck was the smartest guy in the room, savior of us all, science god Fauci doing beginning of March?

[mchookem 16206]

10 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Age?  Fit? Active?  Taking ARBs or ACEIs? Vape?  Drinker?   O blood type or A?  Vegan?  Filtered water or tap?  Eye color?  Earlobe attached or hanging?
 

Without a lot more information, these are all just anecdotes- as are the “healthy 23 yo just dropped dead in the hallway” stories.  

YES

it just seems so random...surely someone is studying the characteristics of the various levels of cases, beyond the obvious (co-morbidity factors), for every 10 'my cousin had it and it was nothing more than a cold' there's a 32 year old active, fit, healthy male with zero health issues that ends up on a ventilator for 2 weeks. to me that's the scariest part, the randomness of it.  

[Leeroy Jenkins 2390]

Fuck China.

[dcar00 14035]

9 minutes ago, mchookem said:

YES

it just seems so random...surely someone is studying the characteristics of the various levels of cases, beyond the obvious (co-morbidity factors), for every 10 'my cousin had it and it was nothing more than a cold' there's a 32 year old active, fit, healthy male with zero health issues that ends up on a ventilator for 2 weeks. to me that's the scariest part, the randomness of it.  

its really not very random at all and not even close to 1 in 10.  in NYC for example there are only 25 deaths out of 6800 that are 19-44 with no underlying symptoms.  

There are likely IMO huge numbers of people of all ages who had it and it wasn't very bad at all or didn't even know they had it.

the media talk about the very unusual ones and therefore people believe it to be random.

[atomheartbevo 89416]

37 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Where is the woman who was the lead coronavirus researcher in Wuhan ?  She seems to have vanished, along with all her bio on the site at the facility she was heading up.  Patient 0 ?

Are you talking abut Carole Baskin?

[atomheartbevo 89416]

33 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

my guess is China is going to soon be very happy to close down the bat market and blame it on some one armed food handler in an EZ up tent.

Except it's the 1% or 2% eating a lot of the exotic wildlife.  They will still get their bats and whatever else the fuck they want to eat.

Oh, they will continue to announce that they have fully closed the markets, like they've been doing for a while, but yeah.

I do think they will actively try and boost the security/safety of their bio-research facilities after this, if it came out of a lab by accident.  That was one helluva hit to their economy, and far cheaper to spend millions upgrading various facilities, than lose billions in revenue, or worse, watch other countries and companies work to pull their factories out of China, or at least spread their production to other countries.

Edited April 17, 2020 by atomheartbevo

[Fastbreak 3959]

43 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

It's definitely been established that the outbreak in Wuhan probably started in November.

The lab theory is a little much for me to buy right now, and I'm certainly no fan of the Chinese government. Their initial response seems too clueless for that. They didn't seem to comprehend what they were dealing with.

There is a lab researching covid viruses is 300 yards from this wet market.
 

The market does not offer the kind of bats that carry covid.

“Patient 0” from the market said she had no contact with exotic animals and says she got it from a shared toliet. 

A team from the Wuhan lab made a trip to study the bats who do carry this virus 1000km away.

One of that team has disappeared and been scrubbed from existence.  

it seems pretty clear cut...
 

[wild_turkey 3152]

The lab theory is a little much for me to buy right now, and I'm certainly no fan of the Chinese government. Their initial response seems too clueless for that. They didn't seem to comprehend what they were dealing with.

The YouTube video that has been linked here multiple times makes a pretty compelling case that it originated in the lab.

The lab is in Wuhan and studies coronaviruses from bats. One of their researchers disappeared and has been removed from the website, and despite these allegations and despite China knowing where all of their citizens are at all times, she has not surfaced since November. She is thought to be patient 0 and dead. They also listed 2 job postings for the lab that were related to SARS-CoV around that same time. Lots of stuff that looks fishy, just watch the video.

The only conspiracy is that a Chinese lab made a mistake and China as a whole failed to admit it, which is extremely easy to believe.

[po elvis 2070]

Imagine a press conference on January 3 that we are going to shut down all non essential travel, non essential businesses, restaurants, bars, all sports, basically most of the economy. I am sure that would have been an easy sell in America. It would never happen. It wouldn't have been able to happen on February 3.

[GRHorn 105]

2 hours ago, ruitxn said:

So you aren’t interested in counting numbers of nursing home infections or deaths.  In the most highly affected areas, nursing home deaths account for 15 percent to as much as 50 percent of total deaths.  Also just wondering your opinion of what is causing weekly home deaths to have increased from 4 to 6 times over historical levels in Detroit and New York. 

If nursing home patients get hospitalized they’ll be counted in the day to day count. 

[BurntOrange&White 39647]

Where is the woman who was the lead coronavirus researcher in Wuhan ?  She seems to have vanished, along with all her bio on the site at the facility she was heading up.  Patient 0 ?

Didn’t the main guy who was doing live streams from Wuhan disappear too?

And 21 million cell phones shut off by the Chinese government?

[XYZ 2154]

Two years ago a US envoy in Wuhan sends cables to the department of state warning that the Wuhan virology lab could cause a pandemic because they were studying SARS-like coronaviruses in bats and had deficient safety procedures. Then this shit happens. It’s a plausible scenario.

[BurntOrange&White 39647]

There is a lab researching covid viruses is 300 yards from this wet market.
 
The market does not offer the kind of bats that carry covid.
“Patient 0” from the market said she had no contact with exotic animals and says she got it from a shared toliet. 
A team from the Wuhan lab made a trip to study the bats who do carry this virus 1000km away.
One of that team has disappeared and been scrubbed from existence.  

it seems pretty clear cut...
 

A lot of assumption here imo.

[ChiTownDoc 21098]

Thread still a clownshow.  Not sure why we can't shit on China for being complete and utter pieces of garbage while also admitting our response left a lot to be desired.  And if stating that is CR shit, then this place is lost. 

Anyways, it was good to see this thread isn't celebrating the end of C19 due to the emergence of Remdesivir...unlike Wall Street who is in full cocaine/hooker mode.  It may shorten the duration and help with severity but it's no cure all.  It likely has close to zero effect on lockdowns which are absolutely crushing the economy.  

It's very likely that prone positioning and not being overly eager to place pts on a vent has done much more good.  But a magic med always sells much easier...

Edited April 17, 2020 by ChiTownDoc

[BurntOrange&White 39647]

China lied, people died.


If you defend China you’re absolutely a fool.

[Leeroy Jenkins 2390]

Well it’s great that we are spending bazillions on building ventilators. 

[ChiTownDoc 21098]

1 minute ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Well it’s great that we are spending bazillions on building ventilators. 

Not sure in other markets but there will be no shortage in vents for Chicago.  All bets are off on a second wave but this one has been flattened.  

Hoping we kickstart electives in May.  Let's get the fucking economy off life support.  We can do that and still treat C19 appropriately in many cities. 

[XYZ 2154]

7 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Not sure why we can't shit on China for being complete and utter pieces of garbage while also admitting our response left a lot to be desired.

Yeah, I don’t understand the “let’s not rush to conclusions” crowd in regards to the virology lab origin theory. Let’s rush to conclusions. That fucking lab is to blame. And fuck the Chinese government for trying to cover it up. And fuck the WHO too for their “don’t close your borders to China because that would be mean” bullshit.

[achooloco 1065]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

If that's real, wow.  They are just around the corner from UT grad/international student housing.

who the hell wants to eat bat for dinner in central texas?! It's funny, it should have stayed up, fuck pussies.

Edited April 17, 2020 by achooloco

[stork642 4498]

4 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Not sure in other markets but there will be no shortage in vents for Chicago.  All bets are off on a second wave but this one has been flattened.  

Hoping we kickstart electives in May.  Let's get the fucking economy off life support.  We can do that and still treat C19 appropriately in many cities. 

This will be difficult for a few posters on this thread to wrap their minds around.  You will be thoroughly scolded for such positivity.  

[ChiTownDoc 21098]

1 minute ago, achooloco said:

who the hell wants to eat bat for dinner in central texas?!

Texas A&M University-Central Texas

[utee94 15745]

4 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Not sure in other markets but there will be no shortage in vents for Chicago.  All bets are off on a second wave but this one has been flattened.  

Hoping we kickstart electives in May.  Let's get the fucking economy off life support.  We can do that and still treat C19 appropriately in many cities. 

From the White House's published guidelines for "Opening Up America Again" it appears that areas that within a 14-day period have a downward trajectory of people reporting ILI and COVID like symptoms, and a downward trajectory of documented cases or positive tests as a percentage of total tests, will be able to resume elective surgeries "as clinically appropriate, on an outpatient basis at facilities that adhere to CMS guidelines."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/?fbclid=IwAR2K2jlBPzoisIKRf0IN5aFBfPBmUz35NyYkDzhtDvsVcYZw1RmtR5_tANg#phase-one

 

[gmr548 16502]

Weren't there folks in Wuhan trying to cover up the extent of it to their superiors in Beijing?
Years ago, I worked with a Chinese guy who was going to grad school at UT, and he fucked up some server configurations for an internal demo we were going to put on.  Long story short, had he told us at the time he fucked up, we could have fixed it and our boss would never have known (we had issues that were much more difficult to work out at the time).  But he didn't, and he tried to fix it on his own, and being that there was Mandarin involved and he was the only one that could read it, we could not verify his claims that his part was working.   When the demo happened and his part of the demo went sideways, our group VP was present (think 7 levels of bosses like in Office Space, with him being the 7th).  
Somehow, the guy wasn't fired, and I talked to him about it later on.  Basically, he was afraid that if we found out he had fucked up, that we would fire him, somehow get him booted out of UT/visa revoked/etc., and so he was going to try his best to cover it up.  I spent a very long lunch explaining that fucking up was not bad if he had admitted to it when it happened, but it was still a hard sell. 
I can just picture some dude at a lab in Wuhan, that was probably being sold to the folks in Beijing as being more secure/safer than it actually was, fucking up, and when shit starts going sideways, his bosses probably trying to cover it up as well, and telling their bosses in Beijing that it was just another SARS outbreak like the ones earlier, and they would have it under control in short order.  That whole culture over there when it comes to cover ups and the like is disturbing.
Edit: Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they put out the bat-eating story to cover up somebody fucking up in a lab that was sold to the rest of the world as being better than it was.
 

I have seen it reported that local officials tried to keep information from Beijing out of fear of reprisal/demotion/whatever. Doesn't that thought kind of go against the idea it came out of a lab though? It's not like the lab was run by the local government. I imagine a newly minted BSL 4 in China of all places has monitoring directly from Beijing. Any breach or what have you at that facility would have sounded alarm bells far beyond the mayor of Wuhan, no?

Also, I do have to say, even for surly, "I once worked with a Chinese kid who was scared of the consequences of his fuck up so clearly the idea is plausible" is quite a leap of logic from an anecdote.

[gmr548 16502]

Thread still a clownshow.  Not sure why we can't shit on China for being complete and utter pieces of garbage while also admitting our response left a lot to be desired.  And if stating that is CR shit, then this place is lost. 

Dilly dilly.

[dcar00 14035]

22 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Not sure in other markets but there will be no shortage in vents for Chicago.  All bets are off on a second wave but this one has been flattened.  

Hoping we kickstart electives in May.  Let's get the fucking economy off life support.  We can do that and still treat C19 appropriately in many cities. 

Electives!  Electives in May?!  How selfish of you.  the 2nd wave is coming!!

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by dcar00

[brakeman 28239]

wow, holy shit.

[bolverk 29399]

20 minutes ago, Bevo VIII said:

China lied, people died.


If you defend China you’re absolutely a fool.

No one, not a soul in this thread, is defending China. What's lacking though is a collective lack of self-awareness and a refusal to take accountability for our own inactions. Sure, it's easier and more satisfying to point fingers everywhere else, but at the end of the day we're responsible for our own self-defense. And, yeah, fuck China. Once this is all over, I hope they'll have to pay for this.