Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[atomheartbevo 89,362]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that forgery was what you were suggesting. I don't agree with all of what you say, but you at least come at it from a mostly rational...unlike that stork642 troll.

I was responding to modesitt's anecdote about his grandma's sister's daughter telling him that doctors and/or the state told her that they were certain the death wasn't COVID-related, but they were going to mark it that way anyway because money. That's the definition of forgery. I believe modesitt that that's what he was told, but I don't buy it all at the doctor/coroner/hospital level.

It’s asking us to believe that a doctor/coroner is risking their entire career and/or possible criminal or civil charges, in order for their state to possibly get some additional money.

But just one or two doctors/coroners won’t move the needle.  

So we are being asked to believe that many doctors/coroners are risking their entire careers and/or criminal or civil charges to possibly get some additional money for their state.  

But wait, there is no guarantee that the doctor/coroner in question won’t personally see that the money in question will help them - forging a document doesn’t mean the covid fairy is flying in from DC with bags of cash for that doctor/coroner’s particular department at that particular hospital.  That money could easily be assigned to other locations, and/or be canceled by the feds and sent to another state    

So we are being asked to believe that many doctors/coroners are risking their entire careers and/or criminal or civil charges to engage in behavior that may not even benefit them or their community or state.

Edit: and the hospitals/etc. would have to be complicit, and just imagine the shitshow when they are caught engaging in this bevhaior, as well as the legal ramifications for everybody involved.  And they would be caught because It takes 30 seconds to hop on twitter or Facebook or whatever to send a message to your local news station   

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by atomheartbevo

[Hefeweizen 5,307]

5 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I know at least a dozen ER docs that can’t test everyone they would.  It’s not a third hand anecdote.  MY group has 100,000 patients we can’t test.  Almost all nursing home residents have had exposure and are high risk patients.  We have 30 doctors in Texas and they cover hospitals and SNF’s.  You know how hard we’d get laughed at ordering tests for everyone that needs one?  So fuck your third hand bullshit. 
 

The litmus test isn’t ‘well just lie and say this so you can get one’.  It’s physicians being able to order all the tests they need.  

Do you think the vast majority of the medical community is making shit up?  You’ve been an insufferable prick from the start.  What is your problem?  Are you working in a hot zone and just getting burned out?  Genuinely curious.  

Damn soooner just boomered a horn.

[atomheartbevo 89,362]

45 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Yeah, I thought about that as I typed it. The funny thing is that it is true. The same people who bitch about installing an app that will track you are the same people who would post about it on facebook.

And they would post about it from a location that they just checked in from.   

[GRHorn 105]

Looks like elective surgery gonna fire up here on Wednesday. Every patient will get preop Covid test as part of workup. 

[atomheartbevo 89,362]

1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

Looks like elective surgery gonna fire up here on Wednesday. Every patient will get preop Covid test as part of workup. 

Are they going to get another test once they’ve left the hospital?

[Modessit 5,595]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that forgery was what you were suggesting. I don't agree with all of what you say, but you at least come at it from a mostly rational...unlike that stork642 troll.

I was responding to modesitt's anecdote about his grandma's sister's daughter telling him that doctors and/or the state told her that they were certain the death wasn't COVID-related, but they were going to mark it that way anyway because money. That's the definition of forgery. I believe modesitt that that's what he was told, but I don't buy it all at the doctor/coroner/hospital level.

Except that I didn't say they were told that the government definitely said they knew it wasn't but was counting it as such. It's possible that they have different standards in that state as to how all deaths are reported and if they see something like "diabetes", "asthma", "over 70" on a death certificate then they just throw it on a Covid pile. It doesn't mean that the coroner or doctor assigned it to covid, but whomever in the records office who is collating data may be including all deaths with certain preexisting as related and the reason may be financial and political reasons. I'm sure nobody told her anything in an official capacity. She probably just heard it from a cloak room member who worked at the assisted living home.

 

[Pato del Muerto 52,321]

3 hours ago, Bevo VIII said:

CTJ is a psychotic narcissist who can’t help but be right about everything even when he’s in over his head. Dude is a fucking meme at this point.

[GRHorn 105]

21 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Are they going to get another test once they’ve left the hospital?

No

[BradInATX 9,208]

26 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Looks like elective surgery gonna fire up here on Wednesday. Every patient will get preop Covid test as part of workup. 

Must be nice. Several Austin hospitals are not doing that unless the patient is symptomatic. So you've got doctors and nurses in the OR who are working on patients who may or may not be sick, meaning they all have to use extra PPE that nobody is sure whether or not they'll have enough of in a month, two months, six months, etc.

And yet there are people who are somehow allowed to leave their houses without wearing helmets running around saying things like "testing is overrated!".

What a world. 

[GRHorn 105]

5 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Must be nice. Several Austin hospitals are not doing that unless the patient is symptomatic. So you've got doctors and nurses in the OR who are working on patients who may or may not be sick, meaning they all have to use extra PPE that nobody is sure whether or not they'll have enough of in a month, two months, six months, etc.

And yet there are people who are somehow allowed to leave their houses without wearing helmets running around saying things like "testing is overrated!".

What a world. 

Yeah from what I heard from @trauma babe on the other thread I’m not super impressed with Austin hospital’s preparation or execution from afar. I’m sure there are explanations but doesn’t look good. 

[Bevo 13,493]

14 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Must be nice. Several Austin hospitals are not doing that unless the patient is symptomatic. So you've got doctors and nurses in the OR who are working on patients who may or may not be sick, meaning they all have to use extra PPE that nobody is sure whether or not they'll have enough of in a month, two months, six months, etc.

And yet there are people who are somehow allowed to leave their houses without wearing helmets running around saying things like "testing is overrated!".

What a world. 

Wrong. Doctors and nurses need to treat everyone as if they are contagious. Surgeons should wear N95 instead of surgery masks. Otherwise, using proper PPE techniques should continue as previous. Double gloving and all the other BS healthcare workers may be doing is counterproductive. Just pretend that saliva and airborne particles are visible and everything should be fine. BTW, testing will be done at the surgeon's request. Some may be more worried about it than others and having an active viral infection would be a contraindication to many surgeries.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Bevo

[Enchubben 5,509]

1 hour ago, Royalfan5 said:

For a comparison sake, the city of Lincoln which around 285k, the gov’t says we can test 150 per day with 2 day turnaround, and that about 60-65 a day have been turning up for testing. Been averaging about 4-5 positives a day. 

ballgame.

[BradInATX 9,208]

2 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Wrong. Doctors and nurses need to treat everyone as if they are contagious. 

Uh, yeah, that's exactly my point. If there was adequate testing for patients coming into the OR, they wouldn't need to do that. Because there's not sufficient testing to test everyone coming in, they have to gear up as if every patient is positive. So they're using valuable and finite PPE that they might have needed to hang on to for actual COVID patients down the line. And yet you still have absolute drooling morons like you running around saying "testing isn't that important!". But I'm glad you agree with my point - thanks for the backup.

Edited April 19, 2020 by BradInATX

[ChiTownDoc 21,091]

45 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Looks like elective surgery gonna fire up here on Wednesday. Every patient will get preop Covid test as part of workup. 

Great news, congrats.  Be safe and start slow.  My only advice.  Not that they need it.  
 

I think certain Chicago hospitals are ready as well.  

[ChiTownDoc 21,091]

I wonder how many marriages this site is saving? 
 

Come yell at eachother and spare the old lady.  

[dcar00 14,023]

4 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Uh, yeah, that's exactly my point. If there was adequate testing for patients coming into the OR, they wouldn't need to do that. Because there's not sufficient testing to test everyone coming in, they have to gear up as if every patient is positive. So they're using valuable PPE that they might have needed to hang on to for actual COVID patients down the line. And yet you still have absolute drooling morons like you running around saying "testing isn't that important!". But I'm glad you agree with my point - thanks for the backup.

Fauci, god of all science gods, says there is enough.  how can you contradict the only adult in the room?

[Bevo 13,493]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Uh, yeah, that's exactly my point. If there was adequate testing for patients coming into the OR, they wouldn't need to do that. And yet you still have absolute drooling morons like you running around saying "testing isn't that important!". But I'm glad you agree with my point - thanks for the backup.

Argue with what I said hours ago. Don't totally miss the point here and act like you paid attention to what I said earlier. To reiterate, people entering hospitals should be tested ASAP. Testing people in the streets is useless because antibody based tests are inaccurate and rtPCR based tests are expensive, time-consuming, and technique sensitive to the extent that they were never meant for testing of entire populations and could not be used for testing of entire populations. We don't have the manpower, the machines, or the reagents to do it and we won't ever have them.

[GRHorn 105]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Great news, congrats.  Be safe and start slow.  My only advice.  Not that they need it.  
 

I think certain Chicago hospitals are ready as well.  

We’ll see. I think they’re ready to rip. A lot of money has been left on the table. Especially from ortho. 
 

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I wonder how many marriages this site is saving? 
 

Come yell at eachother and spare the old lady.  

This is a decent outlet here.
 

As an aside today was better for us. Loaded up kids and went to Marble Falls Strawberry Farm. Big outdoor space. Didn’t really need to wear masks. Actually felt like a normal day for an hour or two. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

Just now, dcar00 said:

Fauci, god of all science gods, says there is enough.  how can you contradict the only adult in the room?

No, he doesn't.

Yesterday:

"So, having said that, right now, I totally understand — and I am not alone; my colleagues understand — that although we say there are X number of tests out there — and you’re going to hear from Admiral Giroir about that — the fact is there have been and still are situations that are correctable, and will be corrected, and some of which have been corrected"

[BradInATX 9,208]

1 minute ago, Bevo said:

Argue with what I said hours ago. Don't totally miss the point here and act like you paid attention to what I said earlier.

"Don't hold me to my words from literally 90 minutes ago!"

 

 We don't have the manpower, the machines, or the reagents to do it and we won't ever have them.

Link? Source? Or are you just talking out of your ass?

[dcar00 14,023]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Just fucking around because bored. Minus the big 5- NY/NJ/Mass/Penn and Mich... I got like 12,585 “confirmed deaths” from worldometer

I added their “confirmed cases” and had a CFR of 3.8

I did a 20 fold on their cases and got .3FR. It’s likely lower than that. Same with the big 5 if we knew their true number which is astronomical when you factor NYC, Boston,Hartford,Philly,Baltimore and DC are all within 7 hrs of each other

IMO, the reality is there is a 99.7 or 99.8 chance on average you are going to survive this if you live in the US.  if you are older/compromised it is higher if you are younger it is lower.

take proper precautions from here on out is all you can do.  Don't do anything you don't have to do that could cause you to come in close contact with people if you really feel it necessary.

Once more unto the breach!

[ChiTownDoc 21,091]

7 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

We’ll see. I think they’re ready to rip. A lot of money has been left on the table. Especially from ortho. 

We have 20-25 backs waiting for decompression surgery.  Unable to go home 2/2 functional status.  Hope to hell we can clear those fast.  

[Bevo 13,493]

Just now, BradInATX said:

"Don't hold me to my words from literally 90 minutes ago!"

Link? Source? Or are you just talking out of your ass?

I might be one of the few experts on this subject on this site. I was an upper level manager for a basic research company when PCR was coming onto the market and brought the technology into the company. I also brought in organic chemistry which was responsible for purification products and sequencing products. Later, I worked in business development for a monoclonal antibody company for human therapeutics and then I worked for an IHC division of Roche and consulted in the pharmaceutical industry before changing careers so I could work directly with patients.

[BradInATX 9,208]

Just now, Bevo said:

I might be one of the few experts on this subject on this site. I was an upper level manager for a basic research company when PCR was coming onto the market and brought the technology into the company. I also brought in organic chemistry which was responsible for purification products and sequencing products. Later, I worked in business development for a monoclonal antibody company for human therapeutics and then I worked for an IHC division of Roche and consulted in the pharmaceutical industry before changing careers so I could work directly with patients.

So then surely there would be one single citable expert out there that agrees with your opinion that it's literally impossible to build the infrastructure to ramp testing up to a more acceptable level, would there not?

[Loco 3,752]

What the actual fuck is going on?

 

[dcar00 14,023]

11 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

No, he doesn't.

Yesterday:

"So, having said that, right now, I totally understand — and I am not alone; my colleagues understand — that although we say there are X number of tests out there — and you’re going to hear from Admiral Giroir about that — the fact is there have been and still are situations that are correctable, and will be corrected, and some of which have been corrected"

yes he does

So I know there’s going to be a lot of questions about that. I didn’t want to go on too long, but let me just finish by saying, given what I’ve just said and what I believe what you’re going to hear, that, for what we need in the first phase — if these things are done correctly, what I believe they can — we will have and there will be enough tests to allow us to take this country safely through phase one.

[dcar00 14,023]

4 minutes ago, Loco said:

What the actual fuck is going on?

 

haven't you heard?  Its Ballgame!  1M will die.

[BradInATX 9,208]

4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

yes he does

So I know there’s going to be a lot of questions about that. I didn’t want to go on too long, but let me just finish by saying, given what I’ve just said and what I believe what you’re going to hear, that, for what we need in the first phase — if these things are done correctly, what I believe they can — we will have and there will be enough tests to allow us to take this country safely through phase one.

 

Do you need help differentiating the statements "we will have enough tests at some point in the future" and "we currently have enough tests"? If so, I hear there are elementary school teachers doing English lessons via Zoom. 

But no, I don't think you're that stupid. You're being intentionally disingenuous because you got caught in a lie that's incredibly easy to disprove.

Edited April 19, 2020 by BradInATX

[ChiTownDoc 21,091]

2 minutes ago, Loco said:

What the actual fuck is going on?

 

Was on a call with a Hospital CFO just this AM.  We joked that the documentary on PPE will make the FyreFest shit look mundane.  

[Hate 20,102]

2 hours ago, Bevo said:

Yeah, I thought about that as I typed it. The funny thing is that it is true. The same people who bitch about installing an app that will track you are the same people who would post about it on facebook.

This is 100% true.  My friend from high school has said he absolutely will not get the vaccine when it is available because he doesn't trust Bill Gates or the government with his privacy.  He posted it on Facebook of course.

[Bevo 13,493]

Just now, BradInATX said:

So then surely there would be one single citable expert out there that agrees with your opinion that it's literally impossible to build the infrastructure to ramp testing up to a more acceptable level, would there not?

First, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and this board would be much better served if you fucked off. Second, you don't read very well and I feel like it is pointless to keep repeating myself. Third, rt-PCR isn't meant as a test for the general population. You can trust me, ask others on this site, or look it up yourself. Antibody testing currently is inaccurate and until that is fixed testing the general population is of limited utility. Even when that is fixed, people would be better served assuming everyone is contagious and continuing social distancing and other protective measures than relying on tests. Just because someone is negative on April 19 does not mean that they will be negative on April 20.

[dcar00 14,023]

Just now, BradInATX said:

 

Do you need help differentiating the statements "we will have enough tests at some point in the future" and "we currently have enough tests"? If so, I hear there are elementary school teachers doing English lessons via Zoom. 

DO you need help understanding the god of all gods of science says he's good with testing and will have enough?  or do you do you doubt him, the only adult in the room.  I hear there is a kindergarten for you to go drool in.  its called the cloak room.  I think they are zooming circle jerks now because the echo chamber is getting old.

[BradInATX 9,208]

Just now, Bevo said:

First, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and this board would be much better served if you fucked off. Second, you don't read very well and I feel like it is pointless to keep repeating myself. Third, rt-PCR isn't meant as a test for the general population. You can trust me, ask others on this site, or look it up yourself. Antibody testing currently is inaccurate and until that is fixed testing the general population is of limited utility. Even when that is fixed, people would be better served assuming everyone is contagious and continuing social distancing and other protective measures than relying on tests. Just because someone is negative on April 19 does not mean that they will be negative on April 20.

So you don't have any sort of credible link that backs up your assertion that it's literally impossible to build adequate testing infrastructure in the most wealthy nation on the planet.

Got it.

[michaelpshayes 417]

1 minute ago, Bevo said:

First, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and this board would be much better served if you fucked off. Second, you don't read very well and I feel like it is pointless to keep repeating myself. Third, rt-PCR isn't meant as a test for the general population. You can trust me, ask others on this site, or look it up yourself. Antibody testing currently is inaccurate and until that is fixed testing the general population is of limited utility. Even when that is fixed, people would be better served assuming everyone is contagious and continuing social distancing and other protective measures than relying on tests. Just because someone is negative on April 19 does not mean that they will be negative on April 20.

[BradInATX 9,208]

Just now, dcar00 said:

DO you need help understanding the god of all gods of science says he's good with testing and will have enough?  or do you do you doubt him, the only adult in the room.  I hear there is a kindergarten for you to go drool in.  its called the cloak room.  I think they are zooming circle jerks now because the echo chamber is getting old.

Your original post claimed that Fauci said we currently have enough tests. Now you're moving the goalposts to "we will eventually have enough tests". You should quit while you're behind.

 

 

[dcar00 14,023]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Your original post claimed that Fauci said we currently have enough tests. Now you're moving the goalposts to "we will eventually have enough tests". You should quit while you're behind.

 

 

no dumbass. my original posts says Fauci says there is enough. I should have clarified enough for phase 1 but you knew that.  the science guy," follow the science OMG why won't our leaders follow the science" says there is enough for Phase 1.

we are following the science guy.  Isn't that what all you fuckwads in the CR want?

[BradInATX 9,208]

4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

no dumbass. my original posts says Fauci says there is enough.

Right. But he never said that.

Good talk.

Edited April 19, 2020 by BradInATX

[Hate 20,102]

8 minutes ago, Bevo said:

First, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and this board would be much better served if you fucked off. Second, you don't read very well and I feel like it is pointless to keep repeating myself. Third, rt-PCR isn't meant as a test for the general population. You can trust me, ask others on this site, or look it up yourself. Antibody testing currently is inaccurate and until that is fixed testing the general population is of limited utility. Even when that is fixed, people would be better served assuming everyone is contagious and continuing social distancing and other protective measures than relying on tests. Just because someone is negative on April 19 does not mean that they will be negative on April 20.

[0xdeadbeef 1,622]

WhooHoo!.

Austin / Travis County adds only 16 confirmed cases today (1108) ...That's following up yesterday's increase of only 18.   We had been averaging about 50 per day for every day in April.  

Only 81 patients hospitalized in the 5-county MSA, which has been pretty steady for weeks.

#turnedthecorner

[ChiTownDoc 21,091]

19 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Antibody testing currently is inaccurate and until that is fixed testing the general population is of limited utility. Even when that is fixed, people would be better served assuming everyone is contagious and continuing social distancing and other protective measures than relying on tests. Just because someone is negative on April 19 does not mean that they will be negative on April 20.

Not to pick sides.  I have not caught all of the shitshow here but agree with the parts I’ve read in terms of what you’ve posted.  I don’t even think you and Brad are totally disagreeing either.
 

Accurate antibody testing is key to really what we need to really open things up.  We just don’t have that right now.  

Edited April 19, 2020 by ChiTownDoc

[bluto 4,873]

WhooHoo!.
Austin / Travis County adds only 16 confirmed cases today (1108) ...That's following up yesterday's increase of only 18.   We had been averaging about 50 per day for every day in April.  
Only 81 patients hospitalized in the 5-county MSA, which has been pretty steady for weeks.
#turnedthecorner

Don’t wanna rain on the socially distanced parade but I’ve gotten my hopes up based on weekend case numbers/reports a few times already and find myself disappointed come Tuesday.

[BradInATX 9,208]

 

7 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Not to pick sides.  I have not caught all of the shitshow here but agree with the parts I’ve read in terms of what you’ve posted.  I don’t even think you and Brad are totally disagreeing either.
 

Accurate antibody testing is key to really what we need to really open things up.  We just don’t have that right now.  

Yeah, nobody on this thread is saying that the testing is where it needs to be right now. In fact, that's sort of the point, that we need to make it better. 

I'm just patiently waiting for him to post any sort of evidence that backs up his assertion that it is impossible to ramp up our testing infrastructure to more adequate levels. (Narrator: he won't)

Edited April 19, 2020 by BradInATX

[GRHorn 105]

6 minutes ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

WhooHoo!.

Austin / Travis County adds only 16 confirmed cases today (1108) ...That's following up yesterday's increase of only 18.   We had been averaging about 50 per day for every day in April.  

Only 81 patients hospitalized in the 5-county MSA, which has been pretty steady for weeks.

#turnedthecorner

Wait there’s only 81 hospitalized in all of Austin and the surrounding counties? They must all be at Trauma Babe’s hospital. She made it sound like she lived in Milan or NYC. Why the fuck would MD’s be picking up nursing shifts at these hospitals? 

[dcar00 14,023]

17 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Right. But he never said that.

Good talk.

good so you can stop bitching about testing.  Fauci has put his stamp of approval on this.

[ChiTownDoc 21,091]

4 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Wait there’s only 81 hospitalized in all of Austin and the surrounding counties? They must all be at Trauma Babe’s hospital. She made it sound like she lived in Milan or NYC. Why the fuck would MD’s be picking up nursing shifts at these hospitals? 

That seems really damn low, we have several hospitals, maybe most with well over 81 in each hospital.  But if that's the case, congrats. 

[GRHorn 105]

One thing that I find very curious is, the ihme model has been overestimating pretty badly  hospitalizations and deaths the whole time, but not that it’s flipped and says we’ve past the peak, it’s underestimating the impact. 

Today’s projected hospitalizations 1,312

Actual 1,471

hmm

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13,010]

4 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

Yeah, nobody on this thread is saying that the testing is where it needs to be right now. In fact, that's sort of the point, that we need to make it better. 

I'm just patiently waiting for him to post any sort of evidence that backs up his assertion that it is impossible to ramp up our testing infrastructure. (Narrator: he won't)

I’m guessing your wife would say you have some things you should get better at instead of constantly ranting about the failure of others, you arrogant ass.

[GRHorn 105]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

That seems really damn low, we have several hospitals, maybe most with well over 81 in each hospital.  But if that's the case, congrats. 

San Antonio metro was 118 on Friday. 
 

Warmer weather and people more spread out I think are huge factors. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

2 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

I’m guessing your wife would say you have some things you should get better at 

Maybe, but your wife certainly wouldn't - she came in with low expectations..

Edited April 19, 2020 by BradInATX

[XYZ 2,154]

17 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Accurate antibody testing is key to really what we need to really open things up.  We just don’t have that right now.  

That sucks.