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Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

InkaUtexas

By InkaUtexas
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South Austin

South Austin 52105

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4 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

You love to lean way over the “no politics” line in this thread. Go hang out in CR if your MO is to reply to others with snarks supporting China, being nothing but negative about the US response, advocating extended indefinite unemployment, etc. I thought this was the thread for news and facts on COVID, not people who are just here to advocate for their team?

We’re not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America! Gentlemen!

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Uncle Boobs
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Against my better judgment and several beers deep, I have taken you up on this, potentially ending my streak of totally worthless posts. I have done 3 and 7 day averages only on the Worldometer data. 

Brisketexan
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Daughter’s home. A little PTSD, we’re picking up Whataburger to help.

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Just try and imagine GreenspointTexas being the person to intubate you as you fight for your life against COVID-19. You’re laying there gasping for air while he chastises you for all the things you li

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Loco

Loco 3752

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Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

Please tell us what our big take away from that graph should be.

Of the countries whose data we can likely  trust, the slope down is gradual, even though many of those places still have onerous protective health measures in place.  It doesn't look to me like a bell curve.  So that's a big fucking problem and by a long shot the most disturbing thing on that graph.

I believe China's data is garbage/propaganda making the only line on the chart with a steep decline not worthy of serious consideration.

 

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Loco

Loco 3752

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Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

I don't mean to sound flippant, but deaths are a lagging indicator of spread. 

Doesn't sound flippant to me at all.  But the problem is the deaths (and therefore some unknown % of infections) slow and decline at a slower rate than we would like.  So if you want oh, say football in the fall, it's not great.  It also hints and a lot more damage to our economy.  

Some of the data modeling nerds (which I confess to not understanding) have been saying that the models that are useful to predict the growth of a Pandemic might also model the tail end wrong.  That's a horrible paraphase..

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Hookah Horns

Hookah Horns 3072

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14 minutes ago, Loco said:

If it's not political to say "Fuck China" how is it political to point out that while the Chinese Government is full of shit and culpable in their own way, unless you are planing to move there, we have bigger problems at home.   It's like polishing the anchor on the titanic, sure it needed to be done, but there might be more urgent things requiring your focus.

It's not that hard to understand.... well for most people

This is a hell of statement in light of the fact that China is at fault for the most urgent thing here at home. 

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utee94

utee94 15744

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23 minutes ago, Loco said:

Go ahead and quote 1 post where I have been "supporting China"  Good fucking luck because there aren't any.

Quote a "lean way over the "no politics line"   I'll wait.

 

If it's not political to say "Fuck China" how is it political to point out that while the Chinese Government is full of shit and culpable in their own way, unless you are planing to move there, we have bigger problems at home.   It's like polishing the anchor on the titanic, sure it needed to be done, but there might be more urgent things requiring your focus.

It's not that hard to understand.... well for most people

This virus came from China.  The only reason we have any problem at home, from this virus, is because of China.  So no... Fuck China. 

 

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stone oak

stone oak 639

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10 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I have read stories of people in India and Mexico attacking doctors in the streets because they stupidly believe they are spreading the virus. 
 

I want to thank the old gods and the new that I live in this country. 

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Telegraph_it

Telegraph_it 3353

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37 minutes ago, Loco said:

 

If you look at that graph and the big take away is Fuck China!  You might want to get away from what ever media you've been consuming.  Just a thought.

The media I was consuming was the graph you posted. It does not take a whole lot of deductive prowess to question why FT keeps displaying China propaganda on their figure. In the age of the asterisk, one could be added easily.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17420

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1 minute ago, utee94 said:

This virus came from China.  The only reason we have any problem at home, from this virus, is because of China.  So no... Fuck China. 

 

I still find this logic strange. Sure, the virus came from China. H1N1 came from North America. Diseases could pop up anywhere for any number of reasons. Blame China for trying to cover it up, absolutely. Blame China for slow playing the release of information or releasing misleading information. But China didn't create the disease. So, no, it is not "because of China" any more than the hundreds of thousands who died due to H1N1 is because of North America.  

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Loco

Loco 3752

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Just now, Dahobbs said:

I still find this logic strange. Sure, the virus came from China. H1N1 came from North America. Diseases could pop up anywhere for any number of reasons. Blame China for trying to cover it up, absolutely. Blame China for slow playing the release of information or releasing misleading information. But China didn't create the disease. So, no, it is not "because of China" any more than the hundreds of thousands who died due to H1N1 is because of North America.  

No China reopened their Wet Markets after the lessons learned from SARS...  The Chinese government knew they were risky...and did it anyway.  So fuck China for that!

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15205

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Comparisons between countries are always flawed, too many differences in size, development, governance, demographics, etc.  These graphs are good conversation pieces, but tell us little actionable information.  I'd much rather see a graph like this at the US state or even county level.  

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15205

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13 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I still find this logic strange. Sure, the virus came from China. H1N1 came from North America. Diseases could pop up anywhere for any number of reasons. Blame China for trying to cover it up, absolutely. Blame China for slow playing the release of information or releasing misleading information. But China didn't create the disease. So, no, it is not "because of China" any more than the hundreds of thousands who died due to H1N1 is because of North America.  

Most reports I've seen indicated had China been forthcoming on initial information about the virus and it's true impact, more than 95% of the world's cases would be mitigated.  That's untold trillions lost due to their obfuscation and tens of thousands of lives unnecessarily lost so they could "save face" .  We are also getting information that Chinese operatives initially and continually deliberately spread disinformation about the virus

So double fuck them....

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Hate

Hate 20103

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I still find this logic strange. Sure, the virus came from China. H1N1 came from North America. Diseases could pop up anywhere for any number of reasons. Blame China for trying to cover it up, absolutely. Blame China for slow playing the release of information or releasing misleading information. But China didn't create the disease. So, no, it is not "because of China" any more than the hundreds of thousands who died due to H1N1 is because of North America.  

You mean Mexico. I know just how badly you want to paint a picture that somehow makes the US culpable, but we aren’t. We’ve done plenty of bad things in our history, but there is no need to try to pin that one on us.
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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17420

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Just now, BabaYaga said:

Most reports I've seen indicated had China been forthcoming on initial information about the virus and it's true impact, more than 95% of the world's cases would be mitigated.  That's untold trillions lost due to their obfuscation and tens of thousands of lives unnecessarily lost so they could "save face" .  So fuck them....

As, I said, fuck them. I have no problem with that. I'm just perplexed by this idea that we need to assign 100% responsibility to someone for something that is at its heart a natural phenomena. I would also be interested in seeing the reports you mention. I find that conclusion hard to reconcile with the fact the US and other nations did have ample warning the virus was a real problem, and yet it still manifested into serious outbreaks all over. What would have materially changed with an earlier warning from China? At heart we just have a very contagious disease that has inserted itself it a very connected world, full of billions of people. 

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utee94

utee94 15744

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3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

As, I said, fuck them. I have no problem with that. I'm just perplexed by this idea that we need to assign 100% responsibility to someone for something that is at its heart a natural phenomena. I would also be interested in seeing the reports you mention. I find that conclusion hard to reconcile with the fact the US and other nations did have ample warning the virus was a real problem, and yet it still manifested into serious outbreaks all over. What would have materially changed with an earlier warning from China? At heart we just have a very contagious disease that has inserted itself it a very connected world, full of billions of people. 

We've heard your opinion.  We just don't think it's a good one. So...

 

Fuck China

 

 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17420

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5 minutes ago, Hate said:


You mean Mexico. I know just how badly you want to paint a picture that somehow makes the US culpable, but we aren’t. We’ve done plenty of bad things in our history, but there is no need to try to pin that one on us.

I don't want to pin it on anybody. Sometimes nature just kicks you in the nuts. 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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1 hour ago, Loco said:

 

 

If it's not political to say "Fuck China" how is it political to point out that while the Chinese Government is full of shit and culpable in their own way, unless you are

Maybe people just don't like the Chinese for lying about the virus, or their inhumane, and sickening wet markets, or their potentially sloppy handling of a deadly virus in an immunology lab, or  being responsible for causing the last 3-4 worldwide, deadly viruses, or their horrible export Chinese food. Hmmmmmmmmm............  I know RAAAAAAAAAAAAACIST.....

Political would have been talking about their political system, or the political angle of the Covid 19 virus, or the PRC created this in a geo political attempt to cause chaos around the globe.  I don't think anyone here has done that here.

So your little jig around the topic is quite lame.

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15205

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Just now, Dahobbs said:

As, I said, fuck them. I have no problem with that. I'm just perplexed by this idea that we need to assign 100% responsibility to someone for something that is at its heart a natural phenomena. I would also be interested in seeing the reports you mention. I find that conclusion hard to reconcile with the fact the US and other nations did have ample warning the virus was a real problem, and yet it still manifested into serious outbreaks all over. What would have materially changed with an earlier warning from China? At heart we just have a very contagious disease that has inserted itself it a very connected world, full of billions of people. 

Triple fuck China!

Russia, Iran, and China coordinated disinformation campaigns against US

You are conflating responsibility about the origins of the virus with actions taken once the virus was known.  The latter is what we take umbrage with.  Again, obfuscating steps by the Chinese resulted in tens of millions of deaths and trillions lost.  Economies are crashing around us and if we take the reports at their word, teh vast majority of this was prevantabel had China been forthcoming about all of this.  

Could have slashed impact by as much as 95% (this is just one article, there are many more)

NYT with same estimation

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bolverk

bolverk 29394

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57 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Comparisons between countries are always flawed, too many differences in size, development, governance, demographics, etc.  These graphs are good conversation pieces, but tell us little actionable information.  I'd much rather see a graph like this at the US state or even county level.  

NYTimes has a fantastic data page showing all types of comparisons for states and counties. Scroll down to the list of states and click "map" for each one which will take you to specific data for that page at the top of which you'll see the curves for each. Lots of data to play with and none of it is behind a paywall.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage#states

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