Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Brisketexan 106,899]

Just now, Iconoclast Texan said:

Bingo. Hard borders and reducing visa-free travel travel to the United States are key. Your country wants to keep wet markets open then your citizens need to have a clean test 14 days in advance of traveling here. Borderless travel in the Schengen Eurozone. What a liability that is. This is hopefully the beginning of the end of globalization and those that think of themselves as "global citizens" are made to look like the fools they are.

^^^^ Look folks, NO POLITICS!

[InkaUtexas 26,885]

50,000 Americans have passed due to COVID 19. John Hopkins reporting. 

We are approaching the losses from the entire Vietnam war. That lasted over 10 years. 

And I don't know a soul who's not been battered
I don't have a friend who feels at ease
I don't know a dream that's not been shattered or driven to its knees
But it's alright, it's alright, for we live so well, so long
Still, when I think of the road we're traveling on
I wonder what's gone wrong, I can't help it I wonder what's gone wrong

[Brisketexan 106,899]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

Which was the point made earlier many times.  We know where it started.  We also know how much obfuscation happened on the part of bad faith actors.  We even have a rough ability to  quantify the fallout (95% initial mitigation possibility referenced earlier)

Then we should have better intelligence to discern these threats as they arise.  Of course, our intelligence DID tell us there was a threat, pretty early in the game....so...

And we should have a government that LISTENS to our own intelligence.

But, I can't talk about that.  It would be political.  Only blaming China is acceptable.  Discussion of our admin's refusal to listen to our own intelligence is verboten. 

[GHOSTUSER 361]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

^^^^ Look folks, NO POLITICS!

Go back to the CR where you can rail against the long list of people you hate and get the echo chamber feedback you want. I didn't mention a politician or political party. I discussed concepts which are fair game in the DT.

[dcar00 14,967]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You're making his point.

nope.   I was responding to him saying you can shit on DEMOCRAT governors like you can't shit on Republican governors.

I'm sure the hives you all have are pretty bad.  the cloak room echo must be maddening these days.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,983]

Today Minnesota has its largest spike in cases now that they’ve begun to pump out tests over 2k a day which soon should be 5-10k a day.

Nobles county(pop 21k) had a meat plant outbreak just recently after the Sioux falls one. It now is ahead of Ramsey county(St.Paul/pop 550k) in total cases.

[DDD Dad 14,649]

47 minutes ago, pacman said:

Chinese citizens have done the same to Africans living in China. SOme rumor around there started that Africans were the source of covid.

And to pretty much everyone who isn't Chinese.  NYT Daily podcast interviewed one of their China Bureau reporters last week who commented on the increase in xenophobia and racism there (he had lived there for over 10 years before the gov't expelled him last month), and he noted that there had been a significant and notable change.

[Digdogger 1,345]

12 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Today Minnesota has its largest spike in cases now that they’ve begun to pump out tests over 2k a day which soon should be 5-10k a day.

Nobles county(pop 21k) had a meat plant outbreak just recently after the Sioux falls one. It now is ahead of Ramsey county(St.Paul/pop 550k) in total cases.

Your mom is known as The Noble County Meat Plant

[Bozo_Casanova 26,851]

1 minute ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Bingo. Hard borders and reducing visa-free travel travel to the United States are key. Your country wants to keep wet markets open then your citizens need to have a clean test 14 days in advance of traveling here. Borderless travel in the Schengen Eurozone. What a liability that is. This is hopefully the beginning of the end of globalization and those that think of themselves as "global citizens" are made to look like the fools they are.

Right, because if we do that we'll never get zoonotic illnesses again, except for:

animal flu

anthrax

bird flu

bovine tuberculosis

brucellosis

Campylobacter infection

cat scratch fever

cryptosporidiosis

cysticercosis

encephalitis from ticks

enzootic abortion

erysipeloid

fish tank granuloma

giardiasis

glanders

hemorrhagic colitis

hepatitis E

hydatid disease

Leptospirosis

listeria infection

louping ill

Lyme disease

lymphocytic choriomeningitis

malaria

orf infection

parrot fever

pasteurellosis

plague

Q fever

rabies

rat-bite fever

ringworm

Rocky Mountain spotted fever

Salmonella and E. coli infections

streptococcal sepsis

swine flu

toxocariasis

toxoplasmosis

trichinellosis

tularemia

West Nile virus

zoonotic diphtheria

 and many more!

[David Dennison 19,541]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

nope.   I was responding to him saying you can shit on DEMOCRAT governors like you can't shit on Republican governors.

I'm sure the hives you all have are pretty bad.  the cloak room echo must be maddening these days.

The echo in here is pretty loud. 

[Hate 20,249]

16 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Trust but verify, brah.

The first known case of Covid19 was November 17th.

https://www.livescience.com/first-case-coronavirus-found.html

 

January 14th the WHO tweeted that is was not transmitted person to person.

 

[TXSG8R 3,362]

9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I agree that we need a robust, international infectious disease surveillance network. And you are right that we will have to make some cultural changes ourselves. 

Likely, yes.  But removing the practice from the megamarkets substantially decreases the risks.  Fewer species intermingled, fewer animals being processed on location, fewer individuals transiting the market, fewer opportunity for zoonotic transmission.

Fewer does not equal entirely preventable.  It also doesn't stop other countries, or regions in China from doing the same.  Look at how effective the prohibition was stopping alcohol production and consumption.  I completely agree that it would be great if China stopped wet markets, just like it would be great if South Korea would stop eating dogs, and African countries would stop eating bush meat.  Until we can change cultures and end world hunger, those practices will continue, so we need to be ready to react.  

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,983]

Your mom is known as The Noble County Meat Plant

Yea we’ll at least she’s not a super spreader like yours

[dcar00 14,967]

everyone realizes that you can get to NY from China by going through Europe also right?

[GabrielsHorn 2,246]

30 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Ok, so lets carry that thread out.  China bans the wet markets, so the wet markets go underground.  Just like the dog meat market in SK does every time they try to get rid of it.  Its a cultural issue, and law enforcement wont solve it, even the draconian law enforcement China can bring to the table.  China bans wet markets, people still buy bats for soup, pangolin dicks, shark fins, etc, they just don't do it in the Wuhan megamarket, they do it at some side door at someone's house.  That doesn't stop the practice, anymore than banning the ivory trade has stopped elephants from being poached.  Speaking of which, China banning their wet markets does fuck all for similar practices in Africa, so saying this was preventable is beyond simplistic.  

The more realistic option is to use intelligence to get as much forewarning as possible on viruses, which we have.  China lies, they lie all the time, we know they lie, they know they lie, so the reliance on China being forthcoming is as realistic as relying on the banning of wet markets to stop Chinese people from practicing eastern medicine.  Its why the blaming of the WHO is also pretty ignorant.  They are a body that relies entirely on receiving data from foreign governments, they cant compel anyone to do anything.  They are the NCAA of medicine.  We have a robust intelligence service for stuff just like this.  That's why its there, use it.  

In general, I agree with the rest of your post, but wanted to point out a few things. Wet markets are not the same as exotic wildlife markets (Source). Wet markets exist throughout the world, even in North America, but the exotic wildlife markets are of particular concern in China due to the animals that are sold at them. While it is a cultural issue, not having these exotic wildlife markets in the middle of a major metropolitan area would be a signficant help to prevent the jump of viruses between the species and were specifically warned about during the SARS pandemic. We need to continue to pressure their closure as they are one of the biggest risks we have for the jumps of these kind of viruses to humanity. Even if it goes underground, it would still drive down the amount of wildlife that would be openly sold in these densely populated areas that can transmit the diseases. 

[dcar00 14,967]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The echo in here is pretty loud. 

holy shit, that is funny.  I needed the laugh. thanks.

[DDD Dad 14,649]

58 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

We should treat them the same way that we would treat a rogue nuclear state.  Sanctions until they regulate the situation, international inspection regime, etc. Sorry that you won't have cheap dildos to chew on. 

This sounds a little cloaky.  Amirite?

[David Dennison 19,541]

2 minutes ago, Hate said:

The first known case of Covid19 was November 17th.

https://www.livescience.com/first-case-coronavirus-found.html

 

January 14th the WHO tweeted that is was not transmitted person to person.

 

Are you saying that before all this, we had no reason to be wary of information coming from the Chinese government?

[Incredulity 11,876]

3 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

 

 

50,066 on Johns Hopkins map as of 11:59 am central time, April 24, 2020. 

 

[TXSG8R 3,362]

7 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Bingo. Hard borders and reducing visa-free travel travel to the United States are key. Your country wants to keep wet markets open then your citizens need to have a clean test 14 days in advance of traveling here. Borderless travel in the Schengen Eurozone. What a liability that is. This is hopefully the beginning of the end of globalization and those that think of themselves as "global citizens" are made to look like the fools they are.

Please explain to me how travel between Schengen zone countries is any different than travel between states in the US?   

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

9 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Bingo. Hard borders and reducing visa-free travel travel to the United States are key. Your country wants to keep wet markets open then your citizens need to have a clean test 14 days in advance of traveling here. Borderless travel in the Schengen Eurozone. What a liability that is. This is hopefully the beginning of the end of globalization and those that think of themselves as "global citizens" are made to look like the fools they are.

who let this guy in here? 

[GabrielsHorn 2,246]

3 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

And to pretty much everyone who isn't Chinese.  NYT Daily podcast interviewed one of their China Bureau reporters last week who commented on the increase in xenophobia and racism there (he had lived there for over 10 years before the gov't expelled him last month), and he noted that there had been a significant and notable change.

The Daily for a few months now (and Freakonomics from Wednesday) both are pointing out that China is doing a huge propaganda push across the world, but particularly in their own boarders, due to this. They are really trying to downplay their role in this from multiple levels of them fucking up, and it really needs to not be ignored how bad they handled this in the future. Just like the SARS pandemic led to a loss in faith in their government, this damn well better do a similar thing. While the US and others really dropped the ball on how this was handled and need to consider multiple things in the future, this is surely going to have huge geopolitical ramifications for China in the world... it's just a question of how successful China is at pushing their propaganda and using their own economic tools in SE Asia and Africa. 

[Incredulity 11,876]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

@Pam Cummings

 

 

substitute 1000 for 15,000

[BabaYaga 15,625]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Then we should have better intelligence to discern these threats as they arise.  Of course, our intelligence DID tell us there was a threat, pretty early in the game....so...

And we should have a government that LISTENS to our own intelligence.

But, I can't talk about that.  It would be political.  Only blaming China is acceptable.  Discussion of our admin's refusal to listen to our own intelligence is verboten. 

We have no real understanding of the threat level at that time.  We have no visibility to how many threats the US sees on a daily basis.  We've never before seen a global pandemic on this scale.  The WHO, back when this threat assessment came out was publicly declaring the virus was not able to pass from person to person.  Of course, all of which was happening in the middle of impeachment hearings.  And if we want to roll this forward, what about the assessments of every other developed nation?  This caught the entire world flat-footed.  

[Sgt Hulk 14,440]

welp it looks like all the regulars in the CR took a moment to stop circle jerking each other to infect this thread. sheesh

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

1 minute ago, GabrielsHorn said:

They are really trying to downplay their role in this from multiple levels of them fucking up, and it really needs to not be ignored how bad they handled this in the future. Just like the SARS pandemic led to a loss in faith in their government, this damn well better do a similar thing.

here here!

Quote

While the US really dropped the ball on how this was handled and need to consider multiple things in the future

take it to the cloakroom motherfucker!

[Iceman 2,978]

4 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Please explain to me how travel between Schengen zone countries is any different than travel between states in the US?   

really?

[Eskimohorn 5,682]

This virus came from China.  The only reason we have any problem at home, from this virus, is because of China.  So no... Fuck China. 
 

Prior to COVID-19 our government and experts from around the world knew that a novel coronavirus could come from China again and that their wet markets were inherently unsafe and could lead to interspecies transmissions.

We knew China is a totalitarian state that suppresses journalism and makes political dissidents disappear. We know this but continue to rely on them for trade.

So, given this knowledge, what did leaders in Western democracies do to prepare for a possible scenario? Was our response to this risk appropriate? And if it wasn’t, who is to blame in our country. Do we not have intelligence resources in China? And when did they provide actionable intelligence?

Or, will we continue to yell at clouds? Damn China for Corona! Damn Congo for Ebola! Damn New Mexico for Hanta! You fucking bats and mice and mosquitoes!

[Hate 20,249]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Are you saying that before all this, we had no reason to be wary of information coming from the Chinese government?

What the fuck are you talking about?  I posted that we were lied to for two months and you asked for sources.  I provided the sources again despite the fact that they have been posted in this thread many times before. 

[Surly Bevo 25,742]

I can always tell when I've been away from this thread for a bit that the Cloak Room shitstains (both sides) have all shown up in full force on this thread based on the pace at which it starts moving at.  Go take a walk you fucking pasty arguing hobbit fucks.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Surly Bevo

[bolverk 30,323]

21 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Politics has been kept out of here as much as possible. What you, and the cabal want to do is make this yet another condemn Trump/ other guys party thread.  He has blame, and so do other agencies, heads of agencies, and other governments all over the world.  Have state govs/ been attacked using politics as the motivating factor here ?

 Anyone pushing back on that would be attacked, and jihaded, and the whole thread would turn into the shit hole CR has become.  

If we're going actually apply a standard of "no politics" in this thread, how about leaving ALL the blame game in the CR? There is, after all, a "Fuck China" thread over there as that is undoubtedly also a political statement. Leave this thread for just for the current ongoing events discussion.

I'd also add that conspiracy theory stuff should probably all go over there too since folks who buy into that shit are alluding to some political force that might be behind whatever is being alleged, such as cooking the books on numbers.

[BillyGoatHill 4,420]

4 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

welp it looks like all the regulars in the CR took a moment to stop circle jerking each other to infect this thread. sheesh

You just NOW noticed this....?

[David Dennison 19,541]

3 minutes ago, Hate said:

What the fuck are you talking about?  I posted that we were lied to for two months and you asked for sources.  I provided the sources again despite the fact that they have been posted in this thread many times before. 

Yeah, and don't you think we had plenty of reason to suspect they might be lying and plan accordingly?

[DDD Dad 14,649]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

If we're going actually apply a standard of "no politics" in this thread, how about leaving ALL the blame game in the CR? There is, after all, a "Fuck China" thread over there as that is undoubtedly also a political statement. Leave this thread for just for the current ongoing events discussion.

I'd also add that conspiracy theory stuff should probably all go over there too since folks who buy into that shit are alluding to some political force that might be behind whatever is being alleged, such as cooking the books on numbers.

This bears repeating.

Maybe we should create a [serious] COVID-19 thread where we could conduct an actual discussion of developing facts.  

Nah.

[DDD Dad 14,649]

6 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

welp it looks like all the regulars in the CR took a moment to stop circle jerking each other to infect this thread. sheesh

Nope.  Just here to observe the hypocrisy.

Carry on.

[Cheeseweasel 26,439]

17 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

one of their China Bureau reporters

Seems trustworthy.

[TXSG8R 3,362]

7 minutes ago, GabrielsHorn said:

In general, I agree with the rest of your post, but wanted to point out a few things. Wet markets are not the same as exotic wildlife markets (Source). Wet markets exist throughout the world, even in North America, but the exotic wildlife markets are of particular concern in China due to the animals that are sold at them. While it is a cultural issue, not having these exotic wildlife markets in the middle of a major metropolitan area would be a signficant help to prevent the jump of viruses between the species and were specifically warned about during the SARS pandemic. We need to continue to pressure their closure as they are one of the biggest risks we have for the jumps of these kind of viruses to humanity. Even if it goes underground, it would still drive down the amount of wildlife that would be openly sold in these densely populated areas that can transmit the diseases. 

I agree, bush meat markets arent the same as wet market, but you still have the risk of wild animal and human interaction. They are both vectors for transmission though.  Reduction of risk =/= no risk, so we need to be prepared for the inevitable next nasty thing to come out of a wet market, rural bush meat market, biolab, etc.  Its a when, not if.  

[dcar00 14,967]

4 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

This bears repeating.

Maybe we should create a [serious] COVID-19 thread where we could conduct an actual discussion of developing facts.  

Nah.

there is a medical discussion thread.  try that one hotshot..

[Anastasis 23,718]

17 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Fewer does not equal entirely preventable.  It also doesn't stop other countries, or regions in China from doing the same.  Look at how effective the prohibition was stopping alcohol production and consumption.  I completely agree that it would be great if China stopped wet markets, just like it would be great if South Korea would stop eating dogs, and African countries would stop eating bush meat.  Until we can change cultures and end world hunger, those practices will continue, so we need to be ready to react.  

Two pandemics emerge from Chinese wet markets where wild animals are comingled with domesticated animals and humans.  They restricted them after SARS, then loosened the restrictions.  And here we are.  Fewer looks pretty fucking good to me right about now. 

[Anastasis 23,718]

8 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I'd also add that conspiracy theory stuff should probably all go over there too since folks who buy into that shit are alluding to some political force that might be behind whatever is being alleged, such as cooking the books on numbers.

Yes, the CR is absolutely the right place for crack pot conspiracy theories. 

[dcar00 14,967]

8 minutes ago, bolverk said:

If we're going actually apply a standard of "no politics" in this thread, how about leaving ALL the blame game in the CR? There is, after all, a "Fuck China" thread over there as that is undoubtedly also a political statement. Leave this thread for just for the current ongoing events discussion.

I'd also add that conspiracy theory stuff should probably all go over there too since folks who buy into that shit are alluding to some political force that might be behind whatever is being alleged, such as cooking the books on numbers.

there are 2 other threads - medical discussion and what ifs and hypotheticals.  should be good for what you are looking for.

and FUCK CHINA!

[Js1 87,182]

It’s nice that y’all are keeping immamac busy during quarantine. Fridays are rough these days 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,983]

Nope.  Just here to observe the hypocrisy.
Carry on.

You were here because some dumbfuck spit at your viet friend and now Asians are experiencing xenophobia everywhere

Now all of us who say or agree with fuck China because they screwed up our fine way of America and worldwide) life are the same people who spit at your friend and we should feel bad about it. I’m sure Vietnam/Japan/SK aren’t echoing “fuck China” right? Lol

[bolverk 30,323]

16 minutes ago, Hate said:

January 14th the WHO tweeted that is was not transmitted person to person.

That's not what they said. Scientists tend to be very careful and parse their words.

Is not transmissible =/= No clear evidence of transmission

[dcar00 14,967]

14 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

welp it looks like all the regulars in the CR took a moment to stop circle jerking each other to infect this thread. sheesh

can you imagine a happy hour with those regulars? you'd have to bring a gun to blow your brains out to leave on a good note.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,983]

Double

[Anastasis 23,718]

19 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

This sounds a little cloaky.  Amirite?

No.  Sounds like a response to a poster asking "now what" in a discussion of the point of origin for the current pandemic. 

[Hate 20,249]

56 minutes ago, bolverk said:

That's not what they said. Scientists tend to be very careful and parse their words.

Is not transmissible =/= No clear evidence of transmission

Edited April 24, 2020 by Hate

[DigDug 1,738]

Goddamn I hope some people out there starting injecting themselves with lysol.  Let the hilarity ensue.

[David Dennison 19,541]

2 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

You were here because some dumbfuck spit at your viet friend and now Asians are experiencing xenophobia everywhere

Now all of us who say or agree with fuck China because they screwed up our fine way of America and worldwide) life are the same people who spit at your friend and we should feel bad about it. I’m sure Vietnam/Japan/SK aren’t echoing “fuck China” right? Lol

South Korea might be saying, "fuck China," but they are also proving to be an example of how to effectively reduce infections and death.