Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13434]

3 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Uh.

Their methods are largely prolific PPE use, and testing and tracing. They didn’t shut their country down the way we did. They are straddled with the same global economy burden that everyone is, but I think they are in much better shape than most of the world when it comes to their internal economy because they have the virus largely contained.

We’ll see how it all plays out.

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13434]

5 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

the CR must really be no fun

It is if you’re unwilling to listen to other people’s ideas and like to complain about others who are unwilling to listen to your ideas.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We do.

So, I mean, discussions of government policies - both actual and suggested -- sure fall squarely within that definition.  Discussions of geopolitics (I mean, the word is actually within the word) fall right in there..

But we're not dense; we also understand that on this thread, the definition is totally different:

So long as it's not that, then it's not "politics" here.  Have all the conversations you want about whatever you want.  Just stop pretending that there's any logical consistency to the "standard" y'all shout from the mountaintops.  This is your safe space.  Own it.

Give me a fucking break. Everyone here knows what "no politics" means in this context. You don't have to cite the dictionary. This is straight from the immamac's mouth:

"Next person who says a politicians fucking name in this god damned thread is getting a week off.

DO NOT SAY POLITICIANS NAMES, DO NOT USE POLITICAL PARTIES AS QUALIFIERS OR ADJECTIVES - USE THEIR CURRENT POSITION IN GOVERNMENT ONLY"

 

[justhookit 4206]

JFC.

Why do y’all care what is talked about on this thread? JFC. Shut up already. Go back to CR. This thread runs along pretty much just fine until y’all show up.

[Anastasis 23718]

22 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Uh.

Their methods are largely prolific PPE use, and testing and tracing. They didn’t shut their country down the way we did. They are straddled with the same global economy burden that everyone is, but I think they are in much better shape than most of the world when it comes to their internal economy because they have the virus largely contained.

After their experience with MERS they built a epidemiological surveillance network that integrates like 30-40 different data feeds.  GPS coordinates and smart phone data, credit card use, financial information, police records, closed circuit television feeds, etc., etc., etc.  That is the backbone of their tracing system. They can track the movements and contacts of basically everyone in the country at any time nearly instantaneously. They use that information to trace contacts and enforce mandatory quarantine. They are also a country about the size of the area between Austin, Houston, and Dallas, and very population dense.  

There are multiple layers of reasons why such a system would be extremely difficult if not possible to implement in the United States. 

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3873]

4 hours ago, Hate said:

The mental gymnastics that some go through to try to paint the picture that China isn’t 100% culpable in this pandemic is staggering. The “is just as easily could have started here” bullshit is ridiculous. When a virus originates in the US and then the government lies about it to the rest of the world for at least two months leading to thousands of deaths and the worst economic downturn in 90 years, then you can start a thread about it and say “fuck the US” all you want. Until then, fuck China (the country not the people for those of you that really really want to make this a race thing).

How does it compare with the mental gymnastics to excuse US leadership's response once it was obvious China lied?

[David Dennison 19538]

10 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

It is if you’re unwilling to listen to other people’s ideas and like to complain about others who are unwilling to listen to your ideas.

So it's just like this thread?

[Hate 20248]

6 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

How does it compare with the mental gymnastics to excuse US leadership's response once it was obvious China lied?

Who has excused it?  Who here has said that this was handled perfectly? 

[GringoSalado 1653]

52 minutes ago, Royalfan5 said:

One more livestock note the monthly cattle on feed report had the lightest placements of feeders on record showing the backing up in that part of the chain even as well pulled fats forward last month. That placement number will likely only last one month which will leave a hole in ready cattle this fall in all likelyhood. Same thing is happening in hogs but we don't get another report on them until June. 

[Brisketexan 106891]

4 minutes ago, Hate said:

Who has excused it?  Who here has said that this was handled perfectly? 

Ummmmm....you?

Quote

The fact of the matter is that the US was going to be screwed regardless because we were lied to for at least 2 months and nothing was going to chnage that regardless of who was in charge. 

If nothing would change regardless of who was in charge, that conclusion is completely exculpatory of the people who WERE in charge.  Because after all, if nothing they could have done would have made any difference, then by definition their response was as good as it possibly could have been.

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13434]

7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So it's just like this thread when infiltrated by political discussion?

Yes.

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

3 minutes ago, Hate said:

Who has excused it?  Who here has said that this was handled perfectly? 

Sorry. Everything is binary now. If one person died the government mishandled it. There is no gray. There is no room for China sucks but we could have done better. 

[dcar00 14962]

22 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Give me a fucking break. Everyone here knows what "no politics" means in this context. You don't have to cite the dictionary. This is straight from the immamac's mouth:

"Next person who says a politicians fucking name in this god damned thread is getting a week off.

DO NOT SAY POLITICIANS NAMES, DO NOT USE POLITICAL PARTIES AS QUALIFIERS OR ADJECTIVES - USE THEIR CURRENT POSITION IN GOVERNMENT ONLY"

 

And don't say FUCK CHINA!

[dcar00 14962]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Ummmmm....you?

If nothing would change regardless of who was in charge, that conclusion is completely exculpatory of the people who WERE in charge.  Because after all, if nothing they could have done would have made any difference, then by definition their response was as good as it possibly could have been.

exactly.  you win the internet and thread.

[bolverk 30323]

2 minutes ago, Hate said:

Who has excused it?  Who here has said that this was handled perfectly? 

 

 

[Hate 20248]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Ummmmm....you?

If nothing would change regardless of who was in charge, that conclusion is completely exculpatory of the people who WERE in charge.  Because after all, if nothing they could have done would have made any difference, then by definition their response was as good as it possibly could have been.

When?  Find a post where I have said this was handled perfectly.  Pointing out that we were behind the 8 ball because of China does not say that we handled it perfectly. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Hate

[stone oak 639]

Thread heading back toward dumpster fire territory...

[GringoSalado 1653]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Ummmmm....you?

If nothing would change regardless of who was in charge, that conclusion is completely exculpatory of the people who WERE in charge.  Because after all, if nothing they could have done would have made any difference, then by definition their response was as good as it possibly could have been.

He's explicitly saying China lies, even if you were in office. I don't know how you get "everything was handled perfectly" from that.

[InkaUtexas 26881]

Fuck,...... @immamac    Permission to start a new thread since this one is a back and forth of arguments that will go no where? 

can we neg people back to the CR at least? 

 

[crash_davis 23470]

bitches, please.

Japanese mayor says men should grocery shop during pandemic as women 'take a longer time'

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/24/asia/japan-coronavirus-osaka-mayor-hnk-scli-intl/index.html

Tokyo (CNN)The mayor of Japan's third-largest city is facing a public backlash after he suggested men are better suited to grocery shopping during the coronavirus pandemic, because women take too long and contribute to overcrowding at supermarkets.

"Women take a longer time grocery shopping because they browse through different products and weigh out which option is best," Matsui told reporters at a coronavirus press conference in Osaka on Thursday.

"Men quickly grab what they're told to buy so they won't linger at the supermarket -- that avoids close contact with others," added Matsui.

[BabaYaga 15625]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Ummmmm....you?

If nothing would change regardless of who was in charge, that conclusion is completely exculpatory of the people who WERE in charge.  Because after all, if nothing they could have done would have made any difference, then by definition their response was as good as it possibly could have been.

[utee94 16086]

 

46 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Do you mean partisanship or politics? Because ANY discussion about policy is inherently political. If we can play the blame game with China (which they deserve) and talk about the federal response to their external threat, then we should also be able to play the same blame game (which we deserve) with our internal response.

As I understand the rules set out for this thread, only State and Local policy decisions and governmental actions are supposed to be allowed on this thread. And yet there are innumerable examples of violations occurring daily from BOTH sides right now regarding various potential federal responses.

If we're going to be truthful, the two boards should be divvied up like a newspaper where the News section is devoted to Current Events & Analysis and the Op/Ed section is for Political Opinions & Partisanship. If posters don't want to talk about politics, then they need to stick with current events and nothing else (which I'm happy to do). But let's not play a disingenuous game that leads to two separate little media bubbles.

I think it's completely possible to discuss the current situation, and the reactions to it, and the overall policy, without interjecting opinion on WHY you think a person of a certain political party or background might have done something.  First of all, that's just opinion and not fact and certainly not "current events" so it doesn't belong here.  Second, it clearly devolves into a crapfest when it happens, so it also doesn't belong here.

Party politics affect many, most, or perhaps even all, policy decisions.  But luckily for all surly dwellers, there is another forum and thread on this site, for that kind of discussion.

It's not an impossible ask, to keep opinions regarding WHY policy decisions were made, on another thread, if that opinion centers on leaders of one party or the other, making their decisions based on party politics.  It's not impossible simply to not state that opinion and reserve it for elsewhere, it really isn't.  And there are pages and pages where this thread hums along relatively fine, without it.  

I don't really read or post in Cloak Room, I don't really know or care who the various posters are that have some obvious history and division along party lines.  I mean, I can read the call-outs and attacks here and "get it" but since I don't read or post there, I don't the history, and most importantly I don't care about it.  I don't want to see political opinions about motives, and I don't want to read posters here, calling out posters from another forum, for being a "cabal" or whatever, and dragging that crap here.  It doesn't belong.  And the site owner and mods have also made their position pretty clear, regarding this thread.

Anyway, talking about the bullshit, becomes even more distracting than the bullshit itself,  so I'll stop now,  but I did feel like your post was thoughtful enough to deserve what I hope, is a similarly thoughtful response.

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by utee94

[BabaYaga 15625]

1 minute ago, crash_davis said:

Women take a longer time grocery shopping because they browse through different products and weigh out which option is best," Matsui told reporters at a coronavirus press conference in Osaka on Thursday.

"Men quickly grab what they're told to buy so they won't linger at the supermarket -- that avoids close contact with others," added Matsui.

[dcar00 14962]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Why were we trusting China in the first place?

because we must listen to the science. science, science, science. how can you forget so soon?

[David Dennison 19538]

Just now, dcar00 said:

because we must listen to the science. science, science, science. how can you forget so soon?

Again, trust but verify.

[crash_davis 23470]

all you arguing motherfuckers.

Edited April 24, 2020 by crash_davis

[dcar00 14962]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Again, trust but verify.

why would we have to verify what science gods tell us?  they are unassailable truth tellers.

[Iceman 2978]

12 minutes ago, Hate said:

When?  Find a post where I have said this was handled perfectly.  Pointing out that we were behind the 8 ball because of China does not say that we handled it perfectly. 

Cloakers are insisting.  They will not shut the fuck up.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Iceman

[dcar00 14962]

43.5K dead thru 4/23 per CDC.  right at 5% CCFR

[Trey3216 15452]

3 hours ago, Hate said:

There was no interpretation necessary. I said stop all travel into the US. Spinners gonna spin though.

I like spinners.  Especially little minxy brunettes and Asians.  

[Homesickhorn 2218]

7 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Dingo ate their baby?

That's not a voirus.....this is a voirus.

[Michael Knight 13217]

28 minutes ago, Hate said:

Who has excused it?  Who here has said that this was handled perfectly? 

Chi tace acconsente

[BabaYaga 15625]

4 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

I like spinners.  Especially little minxy brunettes and Asians.  

Dats wasis...

[stone oak 639]

4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

43.5K dead thru 4/23 per CDC.  right at 5% CCFR

50k dead by April 15th!!!

Ballgame!!!!!

[Dahobbs 18320]

6 minutes ago, stone oak said:

50k dead by April 15th!!!

Ballgame!!!!!

Is the 8 or 9 extra days that significant to you?

[dcar00 14962]

per 1point3 La seems to be trending down in cases.  deaths seem to be flat to down a bit.

Maryland with a big spike in deaths

NJ/Mass still slightly up in cases and deaths

[bolverk 30323]

17 minutes ago, utee94 said:

 

I think it's completely possible to discuss the current situation, and the reactions to it, and the overall policy, without interjecting opinion on WHY you think a person of a certain political party or background might have done something.  First of all, that's just opinion and not fact and certainly not "current events" so it doesn't belong here.  Second, it clearly devolves into a crapfest when it happens, so it also doesn't belong here.

Party politics affect many, most, or perhaps even all, policy decisions.  But luckily for all surly dwellers, there is another forum and thread on this site, for that kind of discussion.

It's not an impossible ask, to keep opinions regarding WHY policy decisions were made, on another thread, if that opinion centers on leaders of one party or the other, making their decisions based on party politics.  It's not impossible simply to not state that opinion and reserve it for elsewhere, it really isn't.  And there are pages and pages where this thread hums along relatively fine, without it.  

I don't really read or post in Cloak Room, I don't really know or care who the various posters are that have some obvious history and division along party lines.  I mean, I can read the call-outs and attacks here and "get it" but since I don't read or post there, I don't the history, and most importantly I don't care about it.  I don't want to see political opinions about motives, and I don't want to read posters here, calling out posters from another forum, for being a "cabal" or whatever, and dragging that crap here.  It doesn't belong.  And the site owner and mods have also made their position pretty clear, regarding this thread.

Anyway, talking about the bullshit, becomes even more distracting than the bullshit itself,  so I'll stop now,  but I did feel like your post was thoughtful enough to deserve what I hope, is a similarly thoughtful response.

 

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly and have refrained from any partisanship and have never included politicians' names nor their motives in this thread but was met with accusations of "hating the United States" and"cutting myself in anguish of how terrible the United States is" when I said that "the United States is responsible for its own self-defense."

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Is the 8 or 9 extra days that significant to you?

Well, those 8-9 days account for about 40% of those deaths?  

[crash_davis 23470]

fucking LULZ.

Indian authorities are arresting people for breaking quarantine and putting them in a van with a fake Coronavirus patient. Fucking lulz. I would love to see the US do this and watch the Karens and fat balding patriot idiots cry like little bitches.

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by crash_davis

[Anastasis 23718]

23 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

I like spinners.  Especially little minxy brunettes and Asians.  

worthless without pics. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I agree wholeheartedly and have refrained from any partisanship and have never included politicians' names nor their motives in this thread but was met with accusations of "hating the United States" and"cutting myself in anguish of how terrible the United States is" when I said that "the United States is responsible for its own self-defense."

 

I feel, overall, when we look back at how we dealt with this novel virus and compare it to other first world countries, we will be proud of our local, state, and federal response.  And how our citizens largely stepped up.  Overall.  Not perfect though.

[utee94 16086]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

I agree wholeheartedly and have refrained from any partisanship and have never included politicians' names nor their motives in this thread but was met with accusations of "hating the United States" and"cutting myself in anguish of how terrible the United States is" when I said that "the United States is responsible for its own self-defense."

 

Well I'm on your side, there.  I certainly think there are plenty of ways that the USA could have, and should have, done better.  I also don't think the USA has completely bungled it either.  

And I'm still completely on board with saying "Fuck China" and even so, it not absolving us of our own mistakes.

I'm an engineer and a corporate business guy.  Every time we complete a product lifecycle,  we perform a (figurative) post mortem and and capture relevant lessons learned, so that we can incorporate them as best practices the next time around.  Sounds like a lot of stupid corporate jargon but I believe in the process because I've seen it work well, time and time again.  For now, and throughout this process, I'm hopeful our leaders are doing something similar, to help prepare better for the NEXT one, which I believe is inevitable.  

And if they're NOT capturing lessons-learned, you better believe I'm keeping a list, and will certainly share it with them.  Perhaps they'll even place some TOP MEN on handling my suggestions...

 

 

[ABSR 5369]

4 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

Damn, what’s your aversion to American made dildos? 

The Chinese models make him feel a little less inadequate.  

[Anastasis 23718]

10 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Is the 8 or 9 extra days that significant to you?

when we are looking at a 13-14 day doubling time it is kinda significant. 

[Anastasis 23718]

14 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I agree wholeheartedly and have refrained from any partisanship and have never included politicians' names nor their motives in this thread but was met with accusations of "hating the United States" and"cutting myself in anguish of how terrible the United States is" when I said that "the United States is responsible for its own self-defense."

 

Bolverk, my friend, you are giving CTJ way too much real estate in your brain man.   Lesson #1 if any from the CR is that you can't take personal attacks about your allegiance to our country to heart. Look at @Bozo_Casanova upthread.  He did the same thing, but in a much more subtle clown way of course. Just let it go. 

[stone oak 639]

21 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Is the 8 or 9 extra days that significant to you?

Yes? Also, it will be a lot more than 8-9 days from 4/23 before we hit 50k though.

[BabaYaga 15625]

12 minutes ago, stone oak said:

Yes? Also, it will be a lot more than 8-9 days from 4/23 before we hit 50k though.

[Bozo_Casanova 26850]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Why were we trusting China in the first place?

that's just as irrelevant as complaining about China in my opinion. The inevitability of this event was priced in.  We didn't do enough to prepare, and then we did the wrong things when the threat became evident. We didn't fail because we "trusted China". We failed because of ineptitude by political appointees and elected officials at the Federal level, period. 
State and Local leaders have by and large carried our response to the extent they could and mostly performed as well in a leadership vaccuum. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26850]

28 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I feel, overall, when we look back at how we dealt with this novel virus and compare it to other first world countries, we will be proud of our local, state, and federal response.  And how our citizens largely stepped up.  Overall.  Not perfect though.

Yes, yes, no, yes.

[Dahobbs 18320]

24 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

when we are looking at a 13-14 day doubling time it is kinda significant. 

I mean, that is certainly a good thing in an overall sense. The doubling time decreased starting in early April, most likely due to all our shutdowns. But, as a general estimate when we were dealing with a lot of unknowns (and still are), it isn't that far off. Just a strange thing to mock/celebrate in my opinion. The disease is still very serious and the numbers will escalate quickly again if we start re-opening without proper controls. 

18 minutes ago, stone oak said:

Yes? Also, it will be a lot more than 8-9 days from 4/23 before we hit 50k though.

We are already there. The CDC numbers just aren't up-to-date (as they themselves admit*). Other sources are all past 50k.

https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

*"Data during recent weeks are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to NCHS and processed for reporting purposes."

Edited April 24, 2020 by Dahobbs