Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

9 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

Smart and incentivized private and public leaders cant figure out how meat packers could safely pack meat? They’d rather shut down plants and compel workers to work in unsafe conditions?

I know, I was shocked too

[dcar00 14,947]

4 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Wyoming sent out an email that if you are called back to work, you have to go and stop receiving benefits. No idea if or how they plan to track that. 

Interesting. are you talking about state workers?  I agree no way to do for fed money unless a private employer really wants to risk a lawsuit.   are there state benefits a non state employee receives?

[ChiTownDoc 21,345]

57 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

the other thing I found interesting is that story about flu vaccine epparently increasing serious pulmonary infection by 36%...  I wonder how many of the severely affected and those who have died had a flu vaccine?  

Another factor is that CV-19 is most dangerous for older people, parricularly the 80+ group.  For one, there are a lot fewer of them in the general population.  Also, with state data they make up by far the lowest number of people who get ILI's in part because there are fewer of them and also  maybe because they are more likely to have caught crap in their lives and have antibodies for more different things?  Also, they are probably less mobile, travel less, go out less, and therefore encounter fewer germs on a daily basis.  Except if they are in a nursing home and shit goes down there, then watch out.  

This seems really damn high.  Was this in JAMA/NEJM or something respectable?  Genuinely curious. 

[Dbeasy 15,561]

I don’t understand airlines not requiring masks on all passengers. What possible reason could they have for not requiring it?

[Brian Fantana 6,862]

1 hour ago, Royalfan5 said:

I have issue with the stimulus check, and wouldn’t have an issue with unemployment matching prior pay, but giving an effective raise To stay home isn’t a great incentive to help phase back in. 

It's only an effective raise if your pay was already shit. After being laid off, I'm at max unemployment + the federal juice and it's still a very significant pay cut that you feel especially when most employers in my field are on a hiring freeze at the moment.

[atomheartbevo 90,636]

24 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Of course, nuance in DC is in short supply.  As usual, it's a top-down, one size fits all solution that revolves around throwing mountains of cash at the problem....creating an untold number of unintended consequences.  I fear this, and not the virus, will be our biggest obstacle to recovery

From a purely technical, as well as political, standpoint, easier to issue checks in under a month to everybody under a certain income.  While many people didn’t need the checks, there’s plenty more in this country who did.    The issue now is this staggered reopening, and the potential for future closures.  We may yet get another round of checks this summer, and while many people will hopefully be back to work, there’s no way the leaders will get selective about who gets them when elections are coming up.

 

[Parliament 14,593]

13 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Wyoming sent out an email that if you are called back to work, you have to go and stop receiving benefits. No idea if or how they plan to track that. 

I had assumed it was always that way, everywhere.  

[Pato del Muerto 53,452]

7 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Interesting. are you talking about state workers?  I agree no way to do for fed money unless a private employer really wants to risk a lawsuit.   are there state benefits a non state employee receives?

No. I’m in the system due to a lay-off a couple of years ago. If you are taking benefits due to a covid lay-off, and your company winds back up and says to come back to work, you are to lose your benefits. Of course whether or not you go back to work is your choice, but you won’t have the choice of collecting the 4k/month. 

[Pato del Muerto 53,452]

3 minutes ago, Parliament said:

I had assumed it was always that way, everywhere.  

I presume they want to make sure people know that it’s the employer and not the employee that decides when it is safe. 

[Brian Fantana 6,862]

2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

No. I’m in the system due to a lay-off a couple of years ago. If you are taking benefits due to a covid lay-off, and your company winds back up and says to come back to work, you are to lose your benefits. Of course whether or not you go back to work is your choice, but you won’t have the choice of collecting the 4k/month. 

 

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

I presume they want to make sure people know that it’s the employer and not the employee that decides when it is safe. 

As far as I know, it's always been the case that if you resume employment for any reason you lose your benefits, and that you can get into trouble for turning down employment for non-health reasons.

[dcar00 14,947]

2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

No. I’m in the system due to a lay-off a couple of years ago. If you are taking benefits due to a covid lay-off, and your company winds back up and says to come back to work, you are to lose your benefits. Of course whether or not you go back to work is your choice, but you won’t have the choice of collecting the 4k/month. 

4K a month? is that the covid layoff benefit?

[Dahobbs 18,304]

9 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

This seems really damn high.  Was this in JAMA/NEJM or something respectable?  Genuinely curious. 

From a quick google search:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/no-evidence-that-flu-shot-increases-risk-of-covid-19/

"Quick Take

A claim being pushed on social media and by an organization skeptical of vaccines is using a military study to falsely suggest that the flu vaccine increases someone’s risk of contracting COVID-19. The study does not say that, and the Military Health System advises people to get the flu shot.

Full Story 

Federal health officials are warning that the novel coronavirus outbreak could resurge in the fall, presenting a significant public health quandary: fighting both COVID-19 and the flu at the same time.

Robert Redfield, director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, noted the importance of the flu vaccine in controlling the spread of influenza in a recent interview with the Washington Post. He said the flu shot “may allow there to be a hospital bed available for your mother or grandmother that may get coronavirus.”

But social media posts are singing a different tune, cautioning against the flu shot by falsely suggesting that the vaccine increases the chances of getting COVID-19 by “36%.”

The argument is being pushed in a post by Children’s Health Defense — an organization founded by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., known for his vaccine skepticism — headlined “Pentagon Study: Flu Shot Raises Risk of Coronavirus by 36% (and Other Supporting Studies).” The post, republished elsewhere, pointed to “peer-reviewed, published studies” to “prove” that advice offered by CNN anchor Anderson Cooper in March for people to get the flu shot “may have been the worst advice he could have given the public.”

That’s wrong.

First of all, experts say there has been no study connecting the flu shot with an increased risk of SARS-CoV-2, the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19.

The central study cited by the Children’s Health Defense is a 2019 Armed Forces Health Surveillance Branch study that probed the theory that “influenza vaccination may increase the risk of other respiratory viruses” — a concept known as “virus interference.”"

There is more in the link. It is the only thing I could find that reference 36%, so I believe it is what the poster is referring to. 

 

[BabaYaga 15,623]

7 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

From a purely technical, as well as political, standpoint, easier to issue checks in under a month to everybody under a certain income.  While many people didn’t need the checks, there’s plenty more in this country who did.    The issue now is this staggered reopening, and the potential for future closures.  We may yet get another round of checks this summer, and while many people will hopefully be back to work, there’s no way the leaders will get selective about who gets them when elections are coming up.

 

Easier =/= effective 

It's a simplistic notion oft repeated of just throwing money at problems and "hoping" it helps without a single public discussion of the unintended consequences.  

[Pato del Muerto 53,452]

Copy/paste from email dated 4/16:

CHEYENNE – Unemployment claimants called back must accept work, the Department of Workforce Services (DWS) reminds unemployment claimants. To remain eligible for unemployment benefits, federal law requires that those who have been placed on a temporary layoff related to the COVID-19 pandemic must return to work if called back.

Not returning to work when there is available work could be considered a “refusal of work” and could potentially disqualify claimants from receiving unemployment insurance benefits.

Businesses may report this activity by reporting fraud at the wyomingworkforce.org webpage by clicking on the “report fraud” button.

DWS advises that claimants called back to work should not cancel their unemployment claims but instead leave their claim open and do not file a weekly payment. However, if a claimant is called back but only working reduced hours, they may continue to file a weekly request for payment and must report all gross earnings for the week to possibly receive a partial benefit.

The CARES Act specifically provides for serious legal consequences for fraudulent cases. Individuals are responsible for paying back benefits deemed as overpayments due to ineligibility.

[Brian Fantana 6,862]

4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

4K a month? is that the covid layoff benefit?

Texas max unemployment is $521 per week, and you are paid bi-weekly which means you gross $2242 every two weeks. This is only through July or whatever though.

Edit: And this is only if you were making enough to qualify for max unemployment, which no one that would "refuse" to return to work would be anywhere close to.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Brian Fantana

[Stella Link 535]

11 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I don’t understand airlines not requiring masks on all passengers. What possible reason could they have for not requiring it?

Would agree.  But if masks aren't totally mandatory by municipalities, they would probably have to supply masks for all of their passengers.

[Pato del Muerto 53,452]

3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

As far as I know, it's always been the case that if you resume employment for any reason you lose your benefits, and that you can get into trouble for turning down employment for non-health reasons.

True. But things are different with this, as they are not expecting claimants to actively be contacting for jobs and tracking it to remain eligible. So they are making it known that you don’t get to say it’s not safe to go back, and continue receiving benefits. 

3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

4K a month? is that the covid layoff benefit?

It’s something like 400 a week from the state and now 600 additional a week from the feds. 

[dcar00 14,947]

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

Texas max unemployment is $521 per week, and you are paid bi-weekly which means you gross $2242 every two weeks. This is only through July or whatever though.

4500 a month?

[Pato del Muerto 53,452]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

4500 a month?

You got it. Hence the need to force many claimants to go back to work. 

[Sbbruin 22,142]

4 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Texas max unemployment is $521 per week, and you are paid bi-weekly which means you gross $2242 every two weeks.

[Brian Fantana 6,862]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

4500 a month?

 

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

You got it. Hence the need to force many claimants to go back to work. 

I'm getting the max unemployment I described above because I made enough before to qualify for it. A lot of these workers that would need to be "forced" back to work for "refusing" to go back are workers that would have been making much less than I was so their state unemployment at least would likely be much lower. I think the minimum in Texas is around $75 per week.

[Brian Fantana 6,862]

Just now, Sbbruin said:

Go lose more 5 stars to the G-league, punk.

[Pato del Muerto 53,452]

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

I'm getting the max unemployment I described above because I made enough before to qualify for it. A lot of these workers that would need to be "forced" back to work for "refusing" to go back are workers that would have been making much less than I was so their state unemployment at least would likely be much lower. I think the minimum in Texas is around $75 per week.

But the 600/wk fed bump is not on a scale, so if people were low earners, that almost makes up the pay, plus whatever the state pays. 

[dcar00 14,947]

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

I'm getting the max unemployment I described above because I made enough before to qualify for it. A lot of these workers that would need to be "forced" back to work for "refusing" to go back are workers that would have been making much less than I was so their state unemployment at least would likely be much lower. I think the minimum in Texas is around $75 per week.

sure. makes sense.  I realize this isn't you and covid is a totally different situation. someone was telling me about their brother, married with 2 kids who doesn't work because he comes out ahead vs. what he could make with the programs/medical and such.  I'll stop here because I'm sure that is for another thread.

 

[Brian Fantana 6,862]

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

But the 600/wk fed bump is not on a scale, so if people were low earners, that almost makes up the pay, plus whatever the state pays. 

Yes, that is the whole idea. The idea of mass amounts of people refusing to return to work is largely ludicrous because they would be risking the loss of all income with no possible fallback. I'm sure some people will milk the system, but you just have to swallow that because for every one of them there are a hundred like me working hard to return to the workforce.

[InkaUtexas 26,860]

Somber... Sad.... Real.... 

 

[Sbbruin 22,142]

10 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Go lose more 5 stars to the G-league, punk.

It's OK, I don't really have to worry about these unemployment calcs anyway.

[Brian Fantana 6,862]

Just now, Sbbruin said:

It's OK, I don't really have to worry about these unemployment calcs anyway.

Something something your mom's ass

Also, I was including the $600 per week from the feds in that calculation

[clapclapclap 9,000]

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by clapclapclap

[CHIEF 5,223]

2 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

 

Well isn't that fucking quaint. Cocksuckers.

CHIEF

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

15 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

 

Holy mother of God....  I can find several words.....

Edited April 29, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[CHIEF 5,223]

Got me.

CHIEF

[Brian Fantana 6,862]

Man that's the worst photoshop job I've seen in 2020.

[RayDog 682]

I noticed this morning that all the street dogs are gone now. Most do have owners, but they have them live on the street. I noticed this morning that some trash my friend  put out last night with chicken bones was unmolested instead of the mess we would have seen even last week. We would normally see a dozen or so dogs during our morning  shopping walk, but there were none. I mentioned it to my friend and she asked what I thought happened to them. She did not like my answer.

I have assumed a lot of pets did not make it through the lockdowns in China. Very sad.

[Trey3216 15,452]

1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

Somber... Sad.... Real.... 

 

It is sad.  It’s also a number that is eclipsed by flu deaths right about every other year.   Not to be one of those people, but that is a fucking “Gotcha” headline if I’ve ever seen one. 
 

Definitely sad, and eye-opening, but perspective seems to be at the will of ink and keystroke these days. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Trey3216

[Brian Fantana 6,862]

11 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

 

Lmao this is like when my aunt shares obviously photoshopped shit from fake news sites

[InkaUtexas 26,860]

10 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

It is sad.  It’s also a number that is eclipsed by flu deaths right about every other year.   Not to be one of those people, but that is a fucking “Gotcha” headline if I’ve ever seen one. 
 

Definitely sad, and eye-opening, but perspective seems to be at the will of ink and keystroke these days. 

12 vs. 4 months vs 13 years. Just marking an event dude. Continue inking and keystroking. 

[Js1 87,174]

8 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Lmao this is like when my aunt shares obviously photoshopped shit from fake news sites

And people fell for it. Some real idiots here

[Trey3216 15,452]

Just now, InkaUtexas said:

12 vs. 4 months vs 13 years. Just marking an event dude. Continue inking and keystroking. 

I hear ya, but I’ve been seeing those pop up from all the major news outlets for a few hours, and I’ve had a few beers and vodkas during those few hours.  I think it’s a dastardly ‘gotcha’ headline bent to further divide.  Just sick journalism, minimizing the men that were over there as well.  Fuck that shit. 

[freyguy 4,368]

13 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

It is sad.  It’s also a number that is eclipsed by flu deaths right about every other year.   Not to be one of those people, but that is a fucking “Gotcha” headline if I’ve ever seen one. 
 

Definitely sad, and eye-opening, but perspective seems to be at the will of ink and keystroke these days. 

And that's flu deaths with no social distancing, stay-at-home-orders etc.....

Try thinking more and posting less...

[Iceman 2,978]

15 minutes ago, RayDog said:

I noticed this morning that all the street dogs are gone now. Most do have owners, but they have them live on the street. I noticed this morning that some trash my friend  put out last night with chicken bones was unmolested instead of the mess we would have seen even last week. We would normally see a dozen or so dogs during our morning  shopping walk, but there were none. I mentioned it to my friend and she asked what I thought happened to them. She did not like my answer.

I have assumed a lot of pets did not make it through the lockdowns in China. Very sad.

the diversity of meat packers is astounding...

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

And people fell for it. Some real idiots here

I thought it looked photoshopped, but did fall for it yep, not really paying attention.

[Trey3216 15,452]

Just now, freyguy said:

And that's flu deaths with no social distancing, stay-at-home-orders etc.....

Try thinking more and posting less...

I think all the time fuckface.  I get the argument, but I’ll be sure every February from here on to post the day we surpass Vietnam War level deaths with flu deaths from here on out.  
 

its fucking Yellow Journalism at its very worst.  

[freyguy 4,368]

I thought it was yellow fever that started all this?

[LCHorn 2,750]

16 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Lmao this is like when my aunt shares obviously photoshopped shit from fake news sites

I like to lean into it and point out which one is Obama’s.  

[ChiTownDoc 21,345]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

From a quick google search:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/no-evidence-that-flu-shot-increases-risk-of-covid-19/

"Quick Take

A claim being pushed on social media and by an organization skeptical of vaccines is using a military study to falsely suggest that the flu vaccine increases someone’s risk of contracting COVID-19. The study does not say that, and the Military Health System advises people to get the flu shot.

Full Story 

Federal health officials are warning that the novel coronavirus outbreak could resurge in the fall, presenting a significant public health quandary: fighting both COVID-19 and the flu at the same time.

Robert Redfield, director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, noted the importance of the flu vaccine in controlling the spread of influenza in a recent interview with the Washington Post. He said the flu shot “may allow there to be a hospital bed available for your mother or grandmother that may get coronavirus.”

But social media posts are singing a different tune, cautioning against the flu shot by falsely suggesting that the vaccine increases the chances of getting COVID-19 by “36%.”

The argument is being pushed in a post by Children’s Health Defense — an organization founded by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., known for his vaccine skepticism — headlined “Pentagon Study: Flu Shot Raises Risk of Coronavirus by 36% (and Other Supporting Studies).” The post, republished elsewhere, pointed to “peer-reviewed, published studies” to “prove” that advice offered by CNN anchor Anderson Cooper in March for people to get the flu shot “may have been the worst advice he could have given the public.”

That’s wrong.

First of all, experts say there has been no study connecting the flu shot with an increased risk of SARS-CoV-2, the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19.

The central study cited by the Children’s Health Defense is a 2019 Armed Forces Health Surveillance Branch study that probed the theory that “influenza vaccination may increase the risk of other respiratory viruses” — a concept known as “virus interference.”"

There is more in the link. It is the only thing I could find that reference 36%, so I believe it is what the poster is referring to. 

 

Yeah as a physician I can tell you if 36% of people given the flu vaccine came down with significant respiratory illness, we would not be recommending it.  That’s insanely high.  

Edited April 29, 2020 by ChiTownDoc

[GreenspointTexas 9,959]

Oops

 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/28/blue-angels-thunderbirds-fly-over-nyc-for-covid-19-workers/

[InkaUtexas 26,860]

Damn really man?  

[Trey3216 15,452]

14 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Oops

 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/28/blue-angels-thunderbirds-fly-over-nyc-for-covid-19-workers/

Yikes 

[Js1 87,174]

38 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Oops

 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/28/blue-angels-thunderbirds-fly-over-nyc-for-covid-19-workers/

Similar happened in Denver 2 weekends ago