Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[dcar00 14,380]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

 

New York City has a population of 8.4 million. It has reported 16,482 confirmed deaths and 4,777 probable deaths, combined 21,259 deaths.  That is .25% of the population. But, let's just drop the probable and go with confirmed, and you're still at .19% of the population. Do we really believe that every single person in the city has been infected? Maybe NYC is unique because it was hit so hard at the same time. So, let's say that resulted in an increase of the fatality ratio relative to what we'd see elsewhere. Did it double it? That would mean at minimum 50% of the population has been infected. And the only way to square these numbers with New York's antibody studies is if it quadrupled the fatality ratio.

NYC is a clusterfuck of epic proportions.  CDC says .26 seems reasonable.  I am going to go with that.  now what do we do?

[Dahobbs 17,701]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

so it’s clear that the death toll is at most 85+ years of age. There aren’t 100,000,000 85+ people in this country so 260k aren’t just dropping dead. Is there a time where the virus just runs out of people to kill? Who knows what the survival rate of the elderly is but it’s probably somewhere in there 90th percentile.

Yes, the death rate is higher the older the population. But I don't know where you get that the death toll is "at most 85+ years of age" (I'm assuming you mean that most of the deaths are 85+). Based on the CDC provisional data, 67% of deaths have been under the age of 85, 40% of deaths have been under the age of 75, and 20% have been under the age of 65. 85+ makes up only 32% of deaths. 

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Our 25% NYC infection number was from mid April right? That antibody test?


That estimate has to be a lot higher now

The report issued on May 2nd. The testing itself occurred at the end of April, but I don't know the exact cut off.  The state was already at 24,000 deaths by May 2nd. NYC makes up 72% of its deaths. I don't have the reported death toll for NYC on May 2nd,  but 72% of 24,000 is still 17,000 deaths or .2% of NYC's population. And, there is at least a week lag from case reported to death. So, even using the prior death count, you still end up with almost the entire city having to be infected in order for .25% IFR to accurate. Further, NYC has been shutdown for a long time now (and reported cases have been leveling off), so I don't think there has been a huge increase in the spread since that testing. 

1 hour ago, UT_OB1 said:

Sort of a response to Hobbs, but the death rate is age dependent. If the world was full of <40 year olds we wouldn’t even notice a difference. 50% of the deaths have been in nursing homes. If you look closer at their estimates, it is actually even lower for under 50, almost zero for youths, and very high for elderly. So the demographics of the population matter A LOT. That’s before adding in health of the population (bunch of fat smoking 35 year olds is different from a group of healthy 35 year olds) and environment (5 million of those people cramming in to a box every day or everyone piling in to their own cars).  As far as NY’s numbers, of the ~16k confirmed deaths, 12k are 65+, 8k of those being 75+

 

Yeah, I agree with that. Which is why the 1% estimate for 65+ doesn't make much sense. As far as running out of old folks, there are 12 million people 80 or above in the US. There are 50 million people that are 65 or above.  If the CDC estimate of 1% is right, you're still looking at up to 500,000 deaths from that population alone or 375,000 deaths if only 75% of that population gets infected. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Royalfan5 2,355]

For your livestock update, hog runs finally got back above 400K head, still probably need two more weeks to get back towards capacity, would like to see 425K by the end of the week. Fresh pork values jumped out of the weekend, likely because of Chinese export interest returning along with seasonal belly demand with bellies up $56 this AM. Cattle are getting closer to 90% capacity, and could hit 95% by this weekend at the current pace. Boxed beef continues to drop with better availability and big movement for restocking this AM. 

[justhookit 4,191]

[dcar00 14,380]

This .26 number is going to drive some folks over the edge.  this can't be true!  media will be bringing folks on to counteract it shortly.

the projection for spanish flu was approx 1/3rd of the population got it.

interestingly the estimate is that 50M people died of the spanish flu world wide.  675K in US.   US was about 1.3% of the deaths.  right now for Wuhan China Flu the US is reported to be approx 30% of the deaths.

[Skipper 6,210]

50 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I think that if we did those three things, we could have a society and economy that are reasonably high-functioning, while dramatically reducing the hospitalization and death rates.  Just those three, targeted things.

We won't do them, by the way.

I'm starting to think it's pretty likely this thing, like the flu, is highly seasonal.  And if so that may end up a bad thing in a sense.  It seems like Memorial Day is the first weekend where a lot of people just said "F it".  If we get to July 4th and there hasn't been a material increase in cases (which seems like a pretty plausible scenario) then it going to be game on for the rest of the summer.  If that's the case do we really think people are going to be ready to scale things back beginning in October/November?

[SHOOTER12 8,836]

1 hour ago, bamachine said:

My brother died yesterday. He had a massive heart attack but it was preceded by him having a fever and a bad cough. We do not know yet if he had it but it seems quite possible, as he was a truck driver, working through all of this, all along the eastern part of the country. The worst part for me, other than losing my brother, is that I will not be able to go to his visitation or funeral. I will just be at his burial, keeping my distance from everyone else. I am one of those higher risk people. I have been cooped up in my house, other than sitting on my porch some, got the last two months, as precaution. 

Sorry for your loss bama.

[Brisketexan 105,451]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

This .26 number is going to drive some folks over the edge.  this can't be true!  media will be bringing folks on to counteract it shortly.

the projection for spanish flu was approx 1/3rd of the population got it.

interestingly the estimate is that 50M people died of the spanish flu world wide.  675K in US.   US was about 1.3% of the deaths.  right now for Wuhan China Flu the US is reported to be approx 30% of the deaths.

Well, from what I saw on the CDC's numbers, they themselves "counter" it -- it's just one scenario, and the underlying data isn't exactly clear.

It comes down to transmission rate (how many will catch it) and the actual IFR (which we still don't know -- we should be reasonably certain that it's not on par with the 3-4% CFR that was the concern in the very beginning, and we also know it's likely materially higher than the .1% IFR of the typical seasonal flu.  There's a lot of room in that spread).  Those two numbers will yield our total number of dead.

Absent knowing for sure that the IFR is truly low, our current measures should be to lower the transmission rate (not eliminate, but lower), and significantly reduce the risk of transmission to the most vulnerable.  My three part plan (isolate and protect the vulnerable, continue to ban large close group gatherings, and wear masks when in indoor group situations) would likely accomplish that.  And in the meantime, as we get better data, refine it, and apply it, we may be able to better tailor our action plans.

We started with a HUGE window of uncertainty, so we used a blunt-force tool (shelter in place for all).  As we are narrowing that window of uncertainty (it's still a decent-sized window, though), we can narrow the impact of the tools we use going forward.  

If I could wish for three pieces of data, it would be for us to have a trustworthy IFR number, for the actual R0 rate with no protective measures (that is, how does it spread in purely natural conditions), and then for the R0 with the limited protective measures I suggested above.  With those, we can actually make a decision based on how many deaths (and extrapolate hospitalizations from that) would happen under the two scenarios over time.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

16 minutes ago, justhookit said:

[Armybrat 40,929]

Bama....My condolences to you and your family. May your brother rest in peace.

[Scary Stranger 1,715]

1 hour ago, bamachine said:

My brother died yesterday. He had a massive heart attack but it was preceded by him having a fever and a bad cough. We do not know yet if he had it but it seems quite possible, as he was a truck driver, working through all of this, all along the eastern part of the country. The worst part for me, other than losing my brother, is that I will not be able to go to his visitation or funeral. I will just be at his burial, keeping my distance from everyone else. I am one of those higher risk people. I have been cooped up in my house, other than sitting on my porch some, got the last two months, as precaution. 

Fuck.  So sorry to hear this.

[Pato del Muerto 52,623]

I think the seasonal flu death rate is around 0.08 when you take it out two decimals (2 sig figs) which means 0.26 is more than 3x as deadly. Multiply that by the factor that it is more communicable and it’s plenty deadly at 0.26. 

[dcar00 14,380]

25 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I'm starting to think it's pretty likely this thing, like the flu, is highly seasonal.  And if so that may end up a bad thing in a sense.  It seems like Memorial Day is the first weekend where a lot of people just said "F it".  If we get to July 4th and there hasn't been a material increase in cases (which seems like a pretty plausible scenario) then it going to be game on for the rest of the summer.  If that's the case do we really think people are going to be ready to scale things back beginning in October/November?

Fauci already said this thing will likely be seasonal and that was about 2 weeks ago I think.  he knows.  yep it will come back and people will die.  100K died during 1968 hong kong flu.  given our current population 150K or so would be similar to that.

[dcar00 14,380]

2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I think the seasonal flu death rate is around 0.08 when you take it out two decimals (2 sig figs) which means 0.26 is more than 3x as deadly. Multiply that by the factor that it is more communicable and it’s plenty deadly at 0.26. 

the last ten years has been closer to .14/.15 on average per CDC

[Captainant 27,843]

3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Fauci already said this thing will likely be seasonal and that was about 2 weeks ago I think.  he knows.  yep it will come back and people will die.  100K died during 1968 hong kong flu.  given our current population 150K or so would be similar to that.

Considering we're already at 100k deaths with an increasing case rate in multiple states and a daily deathrate of over 1k/day... I'm not exactly gonna be surprised if we're already at 150k deaths by the end of summer.

[Skipper 6,210]

Just now, dcar00 said:

Fauci already said this thing will likely be seasonal and that was about 2 weeks ago I think.  he knows.  yep it will come back and people will die.  100K died during 1968 hong kong flu.  given our current population 150K or so would be similar to that.

It kind of puts policy makers in an interesting predicament.   All of the 'shaming' of the lack of social distancing around MDW is going to bite them in the ass if cases stay stagnant or continue lowering.  Many defying recommendations already don't trust the government so those that continue to call for hard core social distancing in low risk situations (i.e., outdoors in the summer) aren't helping.  If we have enough data to know warm weather is already helping to significantly lower the RO, it's probably time to start really start publicizing that fact while simultaneously suggesting continued caution.  I think the sooner Joe American appreciates that some measures can be removed now that will need to ramp back up in 4-5 months the better.   

[Brisketexan 105,451]

Here you go - engaged in a bit of a back-and-forth with one of my wife's FB friends.  She is college-educated.

Quote

I do not wear a mask at this point, having enough research to indicate it is unwise to do so. I do this for myself and for you. I support the Constitution of the United States.

I am educated enough to know that the virus, while very contagious, has a death rate similar to the flu, based on current numbers. I care for you and about you, but will not live my life endangering my own health for those who are at risk and need to remain home. Stay home. I will support you any way I can other than surrendering my own right to health and survival.

I am conscientious. I care for my immune system and practice my usual high level of sanitation.

I do feel as though our rights are being eroded by elitist and divisive bull shit (referring to others as dumb or selfish because they adhere to the Constitution, or their opinion differs from your own) that does not allow for a multi faceted understanding of the virus, demographics, rate of infection and bipartisan pandering.

The United States is supported by the Constitution. I am an American citizen and will uphold these values to my death. I was not born to make you feel more comfortable within your own fear and anxiety. The reverse is also true.
I will help you if able to do so, but not by making myself sick and financially destroying myself.

This country is what it is because we adhere to the Constitution of the United States. I do not consent to deferring my rights or yours, or to the agenda pushing politicians or arrogant citizens who consider themselves supremely empathic, intelligent and who feel it’s a contest of scientists and “theirs” won.

Wearing a mask makes you a person wearing a mask, having your own experience of wearing a mask. I am not threatened by your right to do so. Our democracy is threatened by your subjugation for what we now know has been exploited numbers, rate of infection and level of machiavellianism. It is your right to do as you wish without prejudice. Me not wearing a mask is expected to have similar results from you, toward me. It’s called “sovereignty.”

To do otherwise, is tyranny. You are more than welcome to agree with me because guess what? That’s your right as a FREE PERSON. With FREE SPEECH. I respect your opinion but don’t come up here on my post and act like I’m a grandma killer because I refuse to buy into what the mainstream media is selling. I’d rather die than give up my quality of life over a virus with a 99.5% recovery rate. I’ll take my chances, thank you very much.

Sigh.  I could dissect all that's wrong about this -- from a data perspective, from a legal perspective, pick a perspective.  But this is a not-insignificant portion of the population, and they're going to be a problem.  Again, not just apathetic about wearing a mask, but opposed because "it is unwise to do so."  For fuck's sake.

[GreenspointTexas 9,685]

Yeah uh, if over 100k have died in the past 2.5 months with VERY strict lockdown and closures, i dont see how we keep deaths under 260k over the next 12-24 months with VERY LITTLE lockdown measures

[Hate 20,148]

Because we will keep it out of retirement homes as well as isolate old people and others at risk?

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13,120]

4 minutes ago, Hate said:

Because we will keep it out of retirement homes?

It definitely won’t be a result of us not touching ourselves.

[XYZ 2,154]

How do endanger your own health by wearing a face mask???

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

8 minutes ago, Hate said:

Because we will keep it out of retirement homes as well as isolate old people and others at risk?

I sense you’re eager to infringe upon the rights of millions of Americans. Why don’t you just wipe your ass with the Constitution while you’re at it, sir.

[Hate 20,148]

Why don’t you fuck off. I wear a mask and work from home. And I help care for my elderly mil.

[utee94 15,869]

1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I sense you’re eager to infringe upon the rights of millions of Americans. Why don’t you just wipe your ass with the Constitution while you’re at it, sir.

 

 

[Brisketexan 105,451]

Oh, she replied to me with more genius to share -- and by the way, dozens of her friends have joined in with variations of "right on!" and "AGREED!"

Quote

Like I said. You’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine. Numerous doctors have said that the masks are ineffective and even could help spread the virus due to people wearing them incorrectly, touching their faces, etc. Also the masks do not stop virus particles any more than a chain link fence keeps out mosquitoes. Fauci even said that masks aren’t effective and then, surprise surprise, changed his opinion though nothing in the logic of what he initially said changed. He seems to change his mind with which ever way the money blows, though. I’m able to choose who to listen to and make an educated decision based on that data. Which I have. This entire shutdown and pandemic is the biggest power grab in human history and has nothing to do with health. But obviously I’m not going to change your opinion and you’re not going to change mine. So why are we going back and forth? You are passionate about your stance and I’m passionate about mine. So no, I’m not going to wear a mask. I’m not going to patronize a business that requires it. And that’s my choice and my right. Those that don’t like it can stay 6 feet away from me so they don’t have to worry about my droplets even though I’m a healthy person. And healthy, asymptomatic people do not spread the virus, according to the CDC and numerous other studies. If I was sick, I wouldn’t go out at all.

Again.....if I had all day, I wouldn't have the time to refute the layer cake of logical fallacies in there.

We are a stupid, stupid, stupid country.  And we wave it as a flag of pride.  Pride goeth before the fall.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Brisketexan

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,823]

Yeah uh, if over 100k have died in the past 2.5 months with VERY strict lockdown and closures, i dont see how we keep deaths under 260k over the next 12-24 months with VERY LITTLE lockdown measures

Deaths have dropped drastically as a country with a lot of help from NY/NJ coming back to the pack. 2-3 weeks ago we were still pumping out 20k+ daily cases as a country and that was when the country began a soft open. And we’re definitely trending down in deaths and cases.

[Okie State 3,848]

Oh, she replied to me with more genius to share -- and by the way, dozens of her friends have joined in with variations of "right on!" and "AGREED!"

Like I said. You’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine. Numerous doctors have said that the masks are ineffective and even could help spread the virus due to people wearing them incorrectly, touching their faces, etc. Also the masks do not stop virus particles any more than a chain link fence keeps out mosquitoes. Fauci even said that masks aren’t effective and then, surprise surprise, changed his opinion though nothing in the logic of what he initially said changed. He seems to change his mind with which ever way the money blows, though. I’m able to choose who to listen to and make an educated decision based on that data. Which I have. This entire shutdown and pandemic is the biggest power grab in human history and has nothing to do with health. But obviously I’m not going to change your opinion and you’re not going to change mine. So why are we going back and forth? You are passionate about your stance and I’m passionate about mine. So no, I’m not going to wear a mask. I’m not going to patronize a business that requires it. And that’s my choice and my right. Those that don’t like it can stay 6 feet away from me so they don’t have to worry about my droplets even though I’m a healthy person. And healthy, asymptomatic people do not spread the virus, according to the CDC and numerous other studies. If I was sick, I wouldn’t go out at all.

Again.....if I had all day, I wouldn't have the time to refute the layer cake of logical fallacies in there.
We are a stupid, stupid, stupid country.  And we wave it as a flag of pride.  Pride goeth before the fall.
My money is on her research coming via memes or other nonsensical error ridden posts floating around Facebook. The chain link fence example is the dead giveaway.

[bamachine 1,231]

Thanks to all of your well wishes. He was the second youngest(I am the youngest) but he was still about to turn 61. That and he did not eat the best diet and was a bit overweight but he had no prior heart issues. That and the symptoms he had leading up to the heart attack, those lead me to think it could be this bastard we are all having to deal with these last few months and for the near future at least..

 

It may seem weird to talk about it here but being isolated like this, it helps to get it out somewhere.

[Hate 20,148]

That’s awful news Bama. Thoughts for you and your family.

[Neonmoon 38,130]

Sorry to hear that Bama

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13,120]

23 minutes ago, XYZ said:

How do endanger your own health by wearing a face mask???

Maybe if your mask is a plastic bag?

[atomheartbevo 89,841]

51 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I think the seasonal flu death rate is around 0.08 when you take it out two decimals (2 sig figs) which means 0.26 is more than 3x as deadly. Multiply that by the factor that it is more communicable and it’s plenty deadly at 0.26. 

If it's not being transmitted much by surfaces, and instead most infections are the result of being near somebody/breathing it in, that's going to require masks for quite a while.

24 minutes ago, XYZ said:

How do endanger your own health by wearing a face mask???

Because too many people are apparently toddlers, and don't give a shit about their fellow human beings.

[RDCanecutter 26,476]

37 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Here you go - engaged in a bit of a back-and-forth with one of my wife's FB friends.  She is college-educated.

Sigh.  I could dissect all that's wrong about this --

Don't dissect anything. Just walk up to her and piss on her leg. Then mention the Constitution.

[Foosters 17,889]

Can anyone pinpoint the incident or era that spurned the rise in every Tom, Dick, and Karen becoming armchair constitutional law experts?

[orange dream 1,256]

The I'm an American by God crowd and their "why do you hate the constitution?" retort is more than I can handle.  Outside of them being a pain in the ass, I really don't see why anyone would choose to not wear a mask in the current environment.  No one is mandating it until the end of time. To me it really boils down to we can sit around the house for several months and continue to watch the economy die or we can wear a mask, practice some measure of social distancing and protection of the most vulnerable while resuming as much of our normal routines as possible.  Yes, some of the early doomsday predictions were way off base, and now it's unknowable what the outcome of things would have been if the lockdown had not occurred so we find ourselves in this place of people who think the whole thing is a hoax or powergrab (by whom?) and others who think no one should leave their house until there is a vaccine.  As someone said earlier the extremists on both ends are not helpful to the ultimate cause of people making sensible informed decisions and complying with the necessary guidelines when there are actual hotspots in the future.

[atomheartbevo 89,841]

44 minutes ago, Skipper said:

It kind of puts policy makers in an interesting predicament.   All of the 'shaming' of the lack of social distancing around MDW is going to bite them in the ass if cases stay stagnant or continue lowering.  Many defying recommendations already don't trust the government so those that continue to call for hard core social distancing in low risk situations (i.e., outdoors in the summer) aren't helping.  If we have enough data to know warm weather is already helping to significantly lower the RO, it's probably time to start really start publicizing that fact while simultaneously suggesting continued caution.  I think the sooner Joe American appreciates that some measures can be removed now that will need to ramp back up in 4-5 months the better.   

We need Joe American to understand that simple things like washing hands and wearing masks where possible can prevent us from returning to the "lockdowns" of March and April (Narrator: They weren't really lockdowns).   That's going to be the real problem heading into the fall.

The thing is, these people bitching about masks, many of them don't even have jobs where they have to wear them all day, and more importantly, I picture many of them in the Houston area to be muttering "I'll never eat their again" every time one of Marvin's rat and roach/slime in the ice machine segments came on - they expect everybody else to practice measures to prevent illness.

But by the time they realize how serious it is, we are knee-deep in cases.  We don't plan ahead very good (see how many Americans are in debt)./

[Guest Lobo]

So it seems, back of the envelope math, that you are 50% again more likely to die of Covid-19 if you are Hispanic or Black.  More or less.  Anybody else get that figure?  That's not political, that's not even the virus.  That's just those demographics are more likely to get it, and more likely to suffer serious symptoms/hospitalization, and much more likely to eventually be killed by it.  That's a bunch of factors---obesity, diet, diabetes, access to health care, other financial resources, care network, etc.  YES?  

[ChickenSandwich 9,855]

Update 5/26/20

May 1, 2020 - Beginning on May 1, 2020 (Friday), retail stores, restaurants, places of worship, movie theaters and malls will be allowed to operate at 25% capacity. The Travis County Fire Marshal's Office has provided a business reopening guidance.

Travis County Wuhan Flu Deaths - Cumulative total

3/27: 1 death

5/22: 83 death

5/23: 83 deaths

5/24: 84 deaths

5/25: 84 deaths

5/26: 85 deaths

Last Five Days: +2  (0)

Travis County Health Care Stats: Current numbers

5/21: Hp - 89, ICU - 38, Vent - 22

5/22: Hp - 96, ICU - 39, Vent - 24

5/23: Hp - 92, ICU - 38, Vent - 23

5/24: Hp - 82, ICU - 39, Vent - 21

5/25: Hp - 82, ICU - 39, Vent - 21

5/26: Hp - 90, ICU - 42, Vent - 25

Last Five Days: Hp: +1, ICU: +4, Vent: +3

https://austin.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/39e4f8d4acb0433baae6d15a931fa984

US Death Total 5/26/20

Nursing Home/Extended Care Deaths: 46,521 (53%)

Remaining Population (all ages):           41,330

Total:                                                           87,850

Top 5: Highest State Death Totals:

NY: 23,488

NJ: 11,191

Mass: 6,416

Pennsylvania: 4,984

Illinois: 4,715

Total: 50,794 (57.8% of total deaths)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1ETm51GayRjlnoaRVtUOWfkolEeAQZ-zPhXkCbVe4_ik/htmlview#gid=43566737

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

11 minutes ago, orange dream said:

The I'm an American by God crowd and their "why do you hate the constitution?" retort is more than I can handle.  

Same reason people are screaming and fighting people for not wearing masks. People are assholes.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

4 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Top 5: Highest State Death Totals:

NY: 23,488

NJ: 11,191

Mass: 6,416

Pennsylvania: 4,984

Illinois: 4,715

Being a Yankee seems like the biggest cause of death.

[utee94 15,869]

18 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Can anyone pinpoint the incident or era that spurned the rise in every Tom, Dick, and Karen becoming armchair constitutional law experts?

I'd place it at about 3-5 years before everyone became a statistician and epidemiologist.

 

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

If you are so frail or fat and out of shape that wearing a mask is difficult and/or endangers your health, then you're at severe, severe risk of getting kilt by the Rona if you get it and shouldn't be in public anyway. 

But stupid gonna stupid.

[atomheartbevo 89,841]

22 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Can anyone pinpoint the incident or era that spurned the rise in every Tom, Dick, and Karen becoming armchair constitutional law experts?

https://www.facebook.com

 

[Foosters 17,889]

2 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I'd place it at about 3-5 years before everyone became a statistician and epidemiologist.

 

 

Yeah, I agree that people choosing to disregard CDC advice on masks is also troubling.

[gmr548 16,617]

Because we will keep it out of retirement homes as well as isolate old people and others at risk?

Great in theory. Unfortunately not going to happen in this country. Even if there was total agreement on the seriousness and appropriate response, people find ways to make excuses for themselves. As it were, a significant chunk of this country will not even bother to do that.

[gmr548 16,617]

Oh, she replied to me with more genius to share -- and by the way, dozens of her friends have joined in with variations of "right on!" and "AGREED!"

Like I said. You’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine. Numerous doctors have said that the masks are ineffective and even could help spread the virus due to people wearing them incorrectly, touching their faces, etc. Also the masks do not stop virus particles any more than a chain link fence keeps out mosquitoes. Fauci even said that masks aren’t effective and then, surprise surprise, changed his opinion though nothing in the logic of what he initially said changed. He seems to change his mind with which ever way the money blows, though. I’m able to choose who to listen to and make an educated decision based on that data. Which I have. This entire shutdown and pandemic is the biggest power grab in human history and has nothing to do with health. But obviously I’m not going to change your opinion and you’re not going to change mine. So why are we going back and forth? You are passionate about your stance and I’m passionate about mine. So no, I’m not going to wear a mask. I’m not going to patronize a business that requires it. And that’s my choice and my right. Those that don’t like it can stay 6 feet away from me so they don’t have to worry about my droplets even though I’m a healthy person. And healthy, asymptomatic people do not spread the virus, according to the CDC and numerous other studies. If I was sick, I wouldn’t go out at all.

Again.....if I had all day, I wouldn't have the time to refute the layer cake of logical fallacies in there.
We are a stupid, stupid, stupid country.  And we wave it as a flag of pride.  Pride goeth before the fall.
Biggest power grab in human history? She made a point to emphasize her education. Evidently she skipped *checks notes* all of history.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

14 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Yeah, I agree that people choosing to disregard CDC advice on masks is also troubling.

Which advice? 

Quote

 

CDC says surgical masks won't protect you from the coronavirus

https://komonews.com/news/consumer/cdc-says-surgical-masks-wont-protect-you-from-the-coronavirus

 

 

[Brisketexan 105,451]

13 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Which advice? 

 

You mean the advice from 2.5 months ago....the story about which literally has as its lead line "don't take up these masks that are in short supply and needed by healthcare workers?"  You mean the advice from 2.5 months ago that hadn't yet incorporated the data-based conclusion that wearing a mask reduces the risk of transmission BY THE WEARER, so it protects other people?  That advice?

Circumstances and data change.  We don't have to reserve all masks for healthcare workers anymore.  And we've learned that reducing droplet spray to OTHERS is an important and helpful function of masks.

Come on, man.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,580]

3 hours ago, bamachine said:

My brother died yesterday. He had a massive heart attack but it was preceded by him having a fever and a bad cough. We do not know yet if he had it but it seems quite possible, as he was a truck driver, working through all of this, all along the eastern part of the country. The worst part for me, other than losing my brother, is that I will not be able to go to his visitation or funeral. I will just be at his burial, keeping my distance from everyone else. I am one of those higher risk people. I have been cooped up in my house, other than sitting on my porch some, got the last two months, as precaution. 

I am so sorry. It's a cruel thing. 

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

You mean the advice from 2.5 months ago....the story about which literally has as its lead line "don't take up these masks that are in short supply and needed by healthcare workers?"  You mean the advice from 2.5 months ago that hadn't yet incorporated the data-based conclusion that wearing a mask reduces the risk of transmission BY THE WEARER, so it protects other people?  That advice?

Circumstances and data change.  We don't have to reserve all masks for healthcare workers anymore.  And we've learned that reducing droplet spray to OTHERS is an important and helpful function of masks.

Come on, man.

FWIW, as I've said many times in this thread, it's smart to wear masks even if it helps 1% of the time.

That being said, the smugness of some people in this thread is annoying. Maybe people would be more apt to follow instructions if it wasn't handed out by Karens.