Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

[dcar00 14035]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

Missing the forest for the trees if you want to attack a state for making decisions on the fly in the absolute vacuum of leadership and guidance from the feds on covid. But you tend to get banned for saying such things. 

I'm pretty sure I'm not missing any forest or trees. dumbass abounds in NY and NE in general.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

guidance from the feds on covid

“The findings in this report suggest that once COVID-19 has been introduced into a long-term care facility, it has the potential to result in high attack rates among residents, staff members, and visitors,” the report states. “In the context of rapidly escalating COVID-19 outbreaks in much of the United States, it is critical that long-term care facilities implement active measures to prevent introduction of COVID-19.

[XYZ 2154]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

“The findings in this report suggest that once COVID-19 has been introduced into a long-term care facility, it has the potential to result in high attack rates among residents, staff members, and visitors,” the report states. “In the context of rapidly escalating COVID-19 outbreaks in much of the United States, it is critical that long-term care facilities implement active measures to prevent introduction of COVID-19.

And Cuomo goes and forces nursing homes to take Covid patients.

[Captainant 27450]

Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

“The findings in this report suggest that once COVID-19 has been introduced into a long-term care facility, it has the potential to result in high attack rates among residents, staff members, and visitors,” the report states. “In the context of rapidly escalating COVID-19 outbreaks in much of the United States, it is critical that long-term care facilities implement active measures to prevent introduction of COVID-19.

What's the date on that report?

Look, I'm not defending the practice of putting covid patients into nursing homes. My dad is in a nursing home and has been moved from rooms several times due to covid concerns over the last few months. Covid in a nursing home is my literal worst nightmare. 

But it's real disingenuous to build a safe space thread where you can't talk about national level response and bad decision making (or lack thereof) but you're free to attack states for making bad decisions. Especially when the states HAD to do something because they had fridge trucks full of bodies while the president was proclaiming on Twitter that everything was under control. 

[B00M 6280]

28 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Why ?  It's a valid line of discussion, irregardless of you're personal stance IMO.

Because it's been the same 2-3 questions for seemingly dozens of pages. Dahobbs has at least tried to research it and individually answered them 10+ times. Worst case, it amounts to maybe 20% error +/- in the death count. It ultimately makes no difference to how we should approach this pandemic. 

Do we have meaningful data out of Georgia yet?or vaccine news? or any news worth our time to read?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

16 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Missing the forest for the trees if you want to attack a state for making decisions on the fly in the absolute vacuum of leadership and guidance from the feds on covid. But you tend to get banned for saying such things. 

Dude stop it. A first year medical student knows you don't put infectious patients near other high risk people. Assisted living facilities are chock full of them.. they're called senior citizens. 

No direction from the federal gov't is needed to NOT make that grossly ignorant call.  I'll say it again as a mayor or gov. of your state you don't need the federal gov't to tell you what basic life safety decisions you should be making about your own citizens.  

[XYZ 2154]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

but you're free to attack states for making bad decisions.

Sending covid patients to nursing homes is not a bad decision. It’s voluntary manslaughter. One of the things we knew from the beginning is that covid killed mainly old people. Anybody with half a brain cringed upon reading that covid patients were being sent to nursing homes.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, B00M said:

Because it's been the same 2-3 questions for seemingly dozens of pages. Dahobbs has at least tried to research it and individually answered them 10+ times. Worst case, it amounts to maybe 20% error +/- in the death count. It ultimately makes no difference to how we should approach this pandemic. 

Do we have meaningful data out of Georgia yet?or vaccine news? or any news worth our time to read?

Fair enough.  I'd also like to see the news out of Ga. it's  4+ weeks now. We should be seeing something positive or negative.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, XYZ said:

Sending covid patients to nursing homes is not a bad decision. It’s voluntary manslaughter. One of the things we knew from the beginning is that covid killed mainly old people. Anybody with half a brain cringed upon reading that covid patients were being sent to nursing homes.

Nope, sorry, there are some people you can't blame....they're off limits.  I'll even give them the benefit of the doubt for a few days to a week or two, but they had to be seeing a major up tick in cases coming out of those places where they'd just.... coincidentally been sending  infected people...

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

11 minutes ago, Captainant said:

What's the date on that report?

March 18th: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e1.htm

Cuomo gave his order on March 25th. 

 

[Captainant 27450]

Man if only there was some governmental body higher than a state that could centrally coordinate resources and response efforts so the conditions in a state wouldn't decline to the point of running out of beds to hold sick people and resorting to the worst possible solution

Hell, NYC didn't even have enough tests to confirm who had COVID and who didn't. They fucked up bad and let their seniors down by putting them at severely heightened risk. I'm just surprised I don't see the same level of ire directed at higher decision makers who failed to have adequate testing in place and were banking on a miracle cure or rising temperatures to overcome their inaction. 

[dcar00 14035]

3 minutes ago, B00M said:

Because it's been the same 2-3 questions for seemingly dozens of pages. Dahobbs has at least tried to research it and individually answered them 10+ times. Worst case, it amounts to maybe 20% error +/- in the death count. It ultimately makes no difference to how we should approach this pandemic. 

Do we have meaningful data out of Georgia yet?or vaccine news? or any news worth our time to read?

actually dahobbs answered both and I showed where vital statistics(I supposed they are "vital" for a reason, people quote them all the time as fact) doesn't track it as both for cause of death and there is a public discussion in which some are saying covid deaths are being marked as pna.

but to your point, I will summarize for all, we are opening up, this isnt that deadly, hospitals were not over run and in 95% of the cases weren't close, docs are complaining like mad that they can't do knee surgeries, we should get moving unless over 70 or have heavy comorobidities, vax will come likely in Nov(IMO, similar to swine), there will be more deaths, certain states won't open, if 150K die it will be roughly like the HK flu.

we good?

[dcar00 14035]

9 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Sending covid patients to nursing homes is not a bad decision. It’s voluntary manslaughter. One of the things we knew from the beginning is that covid killed mainly old people. Anybody with half a brain cringed upon reading that covid patients were being sent to nursing homes.

well if he did it in march(or before) it was probably ok because the top science OMG science guy was saying go on about your biz....

[utee94 15745]

9 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Fair enough.  I'd also like to see the news out of Ga. it's  4+ weeks now. We should be seeing something positive or negative.

You can look here at data by state regarding testing, cases, hospitalizations, and deaths.

https://public.tableau.com/profile/peter.james.walker#!/vizhome/COVID-19SeeYourState/YourStateKeys

 

[dcar00 14035]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Man if only there was some governmental body higher than a state that could centrally coordinate resources and response efforts so the conditions in a state wouldn't decline to the point of running out of beds to hold sick people and resorting to the worst possible solution

Hell, NYC didn't even have enough tests to confirm who had COVID and who didn't. They fucked up bad and let their seniors down by putting them at severely heightened risk. I'm just surprised I don't see the same level of ire directed at higher decision makers who failed to have adequate testing in place and were banking on a miracle cure or rising temperatures to overcome their inaction. 

well they could have shut down earlier but yeah the science guy, you know the adult in the room, was saying we cool.   I hear we must follow the science.

[Don Johnson 4745]

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Man if only there was some governmental body higher than a state that could centrally coordinate resources and response efforts so the conditions in a state wouldn't decline to the point of running out of beds to hold sick people and resorting to the worst possible solution

Hell, NYC didn't even have enough tests to confirm who had COVID and who didn't. They fucked up bad and let their seniors down by putting them at severely heightened risk. I'm just surprised I don't see the same level of ire directed at higher decision makers who failed to have adequate testing in place and were banking on a miracle cure or rising temperatures to overcome their inaction. 

How much did this thing get used?

[Hate 20103]

The Governor of New York threatened to sue the Federal Government if they tried to enforce a lockdown in his state in late March.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

8 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Man if only there was some governmental body higher than a state that could centrally coordinate resources and response efforts so the conditions in a state wouldn't decline to the point of running out of beds to hold sick people and resorting to the worst possible solution

Hell, NYC didn't even have enough tests to confirm who had COVID and who didn't. They fucked up bad and let their seniors down by putting them at severely heightened risk. I'm just surprised I don't see the same level of ire directed at higher decision makers who failed to have adequate testing in place and were banking on a miracle cure or rising temperatures to overcome their inaction. 

You're trying too hard.

[Neonmoon 38127]

The silver lining in the pandemic is the amount of people who don’t understand data but use for whatever point they’re trying to assert. 

[dcar00 14035]

12 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

March 18th: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e1.htm

Cuomo gave his order on March 25th. 

 

whoopsie daisy...

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

Just now, dcar00 said:

whoopsie daisy...

Obviously he was forced to by the Feds.

[workswithseed 2036]

30 minutes ago, Captainant said:

What's the date on that report?

Look, I'm not defending the practice of putting covid patients into nursing homes. My dad is in a nursing home and has been moved from rooms several times due to covid concerns over the last few months. Covid in a nursing home is my literal worst nightmare. 

But it's real disingenuous to build a safe space thread where you can't talk about national level response and bad decision making (or lack thereof) but you're free to attack states for making bad decisions. Especially when the states HAD to do something because they had fridge trucks full of bodies while the president was proclaiming on Twitter that everything was under control. 

What other governors put old people back in nursing homes? 

[dcar00 14035]

per 1point3.  strange stat is 100K dead, 1.7M cases, but only 373K recovered.   shouldnt recovered be about 1.2-1.4M?

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

21 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Man if only there was some governmental body higher than a state that could centrally coordinate resources and response efforts so the conditions in a state wouldn't decline to the point of running out of beds to hold sick people and resorting to the worst possible solution

Hell, NYC didn't even have enough tests to confirm who had COVID and who didn't. They fucked up bad and let their seniors down by putting them at severely heightened risk. I'm just surprised I don't see the same level of ire directed at higher decision makers who failed to have adequate testing in place and were banking on a miracle cure or rising temperatures to overcome their inaction. 

That hypothetical entity did float the idea of quarantining NY/NJ and surrounding areas. Cutting off their domestic travel. It was met by leader of said area as an act of war and a non-starter. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/us/new-york-city-coronavirus-outbreak.amp.html

 

Travel From New York City Seeded Wave of U.S. Outbreaks

The coronavirus outbreak in New York City became the primary source of infections around the United States, researchers have found.

 

5 states are responsible for 57% of the total deaths

Edited May 28, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[dcar00 14035]

10 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

You're trying too hard.

thats like buttah in the CR.  double digit pos reps for sure.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

14 minutes ago, Hate said:

The Governor of New York threatened to sue the Federal Government if they tried to enforce a lockdown in his state in late March.

Oh no you din't.......

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/28/donald-trump-virginia-usns-comfort-travel
 

1 month old

Cuomo and Trump clash over talk of New York 'quarantine'
 

 

[Captainant 27450]

4 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

What other governors put old people back in nursing homes? 

I'm not aware of any other states hit as hard and intensely as New York was. I can say that my dad has been moved several times in his Georgetown nursing home due to his roommate or a neighbor showing COVID symptoms, and yet those suspected and symptomatic patients haven't been relocated out of his NH. 

Again - I'M NOT DEFENDING CUOMO OR HIS TERRIBLE DECISION TO PUT SICK PEOPLE BACK IN NURSING HOMES. But I am saying that if you're in a mood to cast blame and comment on policy decisions, you're neglecting to consider the common denominator of leadership in all of this.

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

45 other states have a common denominator. And 43% of the deaths

[Buzzrock 14871]

Great in theory. Unfortunately not going to happen in this country. Even if there was total agreement on the seriousness and appropriate response, people find ways to make excuses for themselves. As it were, a significant chunk of this country will not even bother to do that.

My parents are in their early 70s. Dad is in pretty good shape with a history of some relatively minor neuro issues. Mom is obese with respiratory issues.

They are educated successful retirees. And they would rather take their chances (while being cautious, masks and hand washing etc) than stay locked down. They fully understand the risks but they would rather live their lives and take their chances.

What do you about people like them?

[BradInATX 9208]

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

sure lets move back to why the fuck NY sent covid patients to old folks homes...or maybe the docs can start measuring dicks again

Take that shit to the Cloak Room where it belongs. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

45 other states have a common denominator. And 43% of the deaths

Also take this shit to the Cloak Room where it belongs.

[XYZ 2154]

1 minute ago, Buzzrock said:

What do you about people like them?

 

Give them a hug from 6 feet away?

[BradInATX 9208]

I'm negging any further discussion about fucking New York and what their government did. From people of any political affiliation. It's been beaten to death and it's the most poorly disguised political theme on this thread since CTJ stopped posting on it. The horse has been dead for weeks now, you guys made sure of it. If you must make the same point over and over and over that you've made dozens of times already, take it to your Facebook.

Edited May 28, 2020 by BradInATX

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Take that shit to the Cloak Room where it belongs. 

Tell it to the captain. Go back to your hole. 

[Buzzrock 14871]

Fair enough.  I'd also like to see the news out of Ga. it's  4+ weeks now. We should be seeing something positive or negative.

Cases going back up in Georgia, but deaths still going down. Could be that reopening is spreading the virus, but could also just be that more testing is happening.


https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Tell it to the captain. Go back to your hole. 

You've already been banned from this thread before because you have the impulse control of a child and can't stop making political posts. Shut the fuck up.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Buzzrock said:

 

 

Cases going back up in Georgia, but deaths still going down. Could be that reopening is spreading the virus, but could also just be that more testing is happening.


https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report

 

 

Thanks, Not surprised infections are up, due to increased, better testing.  Very good to see deaths/ rates are down, which I'd attribute to better treatment, and there were probably higher infection rates everywhere we weren't seeing because of less testing.

[Hate 20103]

My parents are in their early 70s. Dad is in pretty good shape with a history of some relatively minor neuro issues. Mom is obese with respiratory issues.

They are educated successful retirees. And they would rather take their chances (while being cautious, masks and hand washing etc) than stay locked down. They fully understand the risks but they would rather live their lives and take their chances.

What do you about people like them?

My MIL is 80 and a two time cancer survivor. She had a stroke this past weekend (mild) and had to be hospitalized. She has said many times that she is tired of this lockdown stuff and is willing to take her chances. We have provided her with masks, which she uses, and she washes her hands often. Of course, she can’t drive anymore since the stroke but until then she was going out all the time. I think she intentionally “under shopped” so she could justify going out as often as she wanted to. She’s at the point where she doesn’t really care if she gets and and I personally think she wants to get it so it can be over for her. She told me on the way to the hospital that she is tired of being sick and is ready to go.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 hours ago, BradInATX said:

You've already been banned from this thread before because you have the impulse control of a child and can't stop making political posts. Shut the fuck up.

Hey doofus, howz' about you call out the drive by passive aggressive, "I'm not touching you I'm not touching you", political posts from your friends in the Cabal, which I'm assuming you're trying out for here.  

Edited May 28, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[dcar00 14035]

6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I'm negging any further discussion about fucking New York and what their government did. From people of any political affiliation. It's been beaten to death and it's the most poorly disguised political theme on this thread since CTJ stopped posting on it. The horse has been dead for weeks now, you guys made sure of it. If you must make the same point over and over and over that you've made dozens of times already, take it to your Facebook.

well look at the big brain on Brad!

The Truth Shall Set You Free, Brad

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

12 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

You've already been banned from this thread before because you have the impulse control of a child and can't stop making political posts. Shut the fuck up.

I was banned for saying Cuomo at the time is was suggested, was wrong for rejecting quarantine for his state. 
 

I was correct. 
 

Now you shut the fuck up and go back to stroking Hugo 

Edited May 28, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

I was banned for saying Cuomo was wrong for rejecting quarantine for his state. 
 

I was correct. 

Another political post. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by BradInATX

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

7 minutes ago, Hate said:

My MIL is 80 and a two time cancer survivor. She had a stroke this past weekend (mild) and had to be hospitalized. She has said many times that she is tired of this lockdown stuff and is willing to take her chances. We have provided her with masks, which she uses, and she washes her hands often. Of course, she can’t drive anymore since the stroke but until then she was going out all the time. I think she intentionally “under shopped” so she could justify going out as often as she wanted to. She’s at the point where she doesn’t really care if she gets and and I personally think she wants to get it so it can be over for her. She told me on the way to the hospital that she is tired of being sick and is ready to go.

Just because your MIL has an admitted death wish doesn’t mean she should be putting others at risk. 

[Captainant 27450]

CTJ may be a gone poster, but we're so fortunate to have the bad faith argument, thread policing karen mega-zord of chickensandwich, dcar, and onboard to keep pushing their political stance while rallying pitchforks to those that call them out

[Dahobbs 17447]

11 hours ago, dcar00 said:

actually the vital statistics doesn't have a column for  describing a single death as from both flu and pna.  here's 2017 page 31.

flu 6.5K   pna 49K

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09_tables-508.pdf

CDC uses these numbers on their faststats webview

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/pneumonia.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

actually dahobbs answered both and I showed where vital statistics(I supposed they are "vital" for a reason, people quote them all the time as fact) doesn't track it as both for cause of death and there is a public discussion in which some are saying covid deaths are being marked as pna.

but to your point, I will summarize for all, we are opening up, this isnt that deadly, hospitals were not over run and in 95% of the cases weren't close, docs are complaining like mad that they can't do knee surgeries, we should get moving unless over 70 or have heavy comorobidities, vax will come likely in Nov(IMO, similar to swine), there will be more deaths, certain states won't open, if 150K die it will be roughly like the HK flu.

we good?

The statistics are reported in different ways, in different locations, for different purposes, and by different entities. If you've ever seen a death certificate or how that information is stored electronically, you'd know that they contain multiple entries for causes of death. Typically, there is one section for "immediate cause of death" and then a listing of "underlying causes."

The NCHS report cited in that first link has its own methodology for identifying the single cause "which initiated the train of morbid events leading directly to the death or the circumstances of the accident or violence which produced the fatal injury." Basically, the system takes in data from the the death certificates and identifies that single initiating cause based on a set of rules and procedures. A more detailed description of that process is below:

Quote

 

Prior to data year 1968, mortality medical data were based on manual coding of an underlying cause of death for each certificate, in accordance with WHO rules. Effective with data year 1968, NCHS converted to computerized coding of the underlying cause and manual coding of all causes (multiple causes) on the death certificate. In this system, called Automated Classification of Medical Entities (ACME) (45), multiple-cause codes are inputted to computer software that uses WHO rules to select the underlying cause. All cause-of-death data in this report are coded using ACME. The ACME system is used to select the underlying cause of death for all death certificates in the United States. In addition, NCHS developed two computer systems as inputs to ACME. Beginning with 1990 data, the Mortality Medical Indexing, Classification, and Retrieval system (MICAR) (46,47) was introduced to automate the coding of multiple causes of death. In addition, MICAR provides more detailed information on the conditions reported on death certificates than is available through ICD code structure. Beginning with data year 1993, SuperMICAR (48), an enhancement of the MICAR system, was introduced, allowing for literal entry of the multiple cause-of-death text as reported by the certifier. This information is then automatically processed by the MICAR and ACME computer systems. Records that cannot be automatically processed by MICAR are manually multiple-cause coded and then further processed through ACME to determine the underlying cause of death. In 2017, SuperMICAR was used to process all of the country’s death records.

In this report, tabulations of cause-of-death statistics are based solely on the underlying cause of death. The underlying cause is defined by WHO as “the disease or injury which initiated the train of morbid events leading directly to death, or the circumstances of the accident or violence which produced the fatal injury” (5). The underlying cause is selected from the conditions entered by the medical certifier in the cause-of-death section of the death certificate. When more than one cause or condition is entered by the medical certifier, the underlying cause is determined by the sequence of conditions on the certificate, provisions of ICD, and associated selection rules and modifications. Generally, more medical information is reported on death certificates than is directly reflected in the underlying cause of death. This is captured in NCHS multiple cause-of-death statistics (49–51)

 

In other places the data is reported differently, and does include overlap with multiple causes. You really have to look at the purpose and methodology behind the statistic your citing. For instance, the NCHS report is based on actual death certificate data. However, the CDC for instance estimates overall mortality associated with flu as several times higher than the ~6,000 deaths found in the NCHS report. The NCHS includes every single death in the US (~2.8 million per year in the US) and provides a single underlying or initiating cause for each death. So, those additional flu related deaths identified by the CDC aren't new deaths in addition to the 2.8 million, but rather influenza related deaths that overlap with other causes reported in the NCHS data. 

[Hate 20103]

Just because your MIL has an admitted death wish doesn’t mean she should be putting others at risk. 

How is she putting others at risk? She wears a mask and washes her hands often. If that’s putting others at risk it’s pretty safe to say most people in this thread are doing the same.

[Hate 20103]

CTJ may be a gone poster, but we're so fortunate to have the bad faith argument, thread policing karen mega-zord of chickensandwich, dcar, and onboard to keep pushing their political stance while rallying pitchforks to those that call them out

You’re the one who started it yet again this morning until your thread Karen came your defense.

[Captainant 27450]

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

sure lets move back to why the fuck NY sent covid patients to old folks homes...or maybe the docs can start measuring dicks again

 

3 minutes ago, Hate said:

You’re the one who started it yet again this morning until your thread Karen came your defense.

yup sure did, champ.

[Incredulity 11565]

4 minutes ago, Hate said:

You’re the one who started it yet again this morning until your thread Karen came your defense.

thread Karen.  LOL.