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Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away

InkaUtexas

By InkaUtexas
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Uncle Boobs
Uncle Boobs

Against my better judgment and several beers deep, I have taken you up on this, potentially ending my streak of totally worthless posts. I have done 3 and 7 day averages only on the Worldometer data. 

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

Daughter’s home. A little PTSD, we’re picking up Whataburger to help.

Coelenterate Fuccboi
Coelenterate Fuccboi

Just try and imagine GreenspointTexas being the person to intubate you as you fight for your life against COVID-19. You’re laying there gasping for air while he chastises you for all the things you li

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

I would have to specifically deep dive into South Korea's policies to answer with any level of clarity or certainty. I think I provided a wide swath above, but it doesn't address SK directly. I'm not inclined to deep dive at this time, so in admitting ignorance specific to SK I will simply state: I don't know. 

Deep dive into this.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/whats-south-koreas-secret/611215/

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, GRHorn said:

This is semantics and just a cold numbers assessment, but 50-60,000 Americans die every week. So you’re looking at 3 weeks worth and I don’t believe those all count as excess deaths above the norm. It is a sad situation and I think we could’ve done better, but fortunately I think few would call those relative numbers apocalyptic. 
 

I’m sensing your emotional response is due to a personal experience with it. I’m sorry, if that’s the case. Just looking at it from a big picture view. 

So people die every day so who cares about the covid dead? Nice logical perspective there. Geezus. Go out and eat another crappy burnt steak and greasy hot dog.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89652

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Where is the money for extending unemployment benefits going to come from? 

That's why I don't think he can do it, but like I said this could spur Congress into getting something done, because in theory he's now put the ball in their court, and they will be the ones taking away the extended unemployment benefits. 

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Hefeweizen

Hefeweizen 5311

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, GRHorn said:

This is semantics and just a cold numbers assessment, but 50-60,000 Americans die every week. So you’re looking at 3 weeks worth and I don’t believe those all count as excess deaths above the norm. It is a sad situation and I think we could’ve done better, but fortunately I think few would call those relative numbers apocalyptic. 
 

I’m sensing your emotional response is due to a personal experience with it. I’m sorry, if that’s the case. Just looking at it from a big picture view. 

I've now got two people I know who died from it and one in ICU - none of them in the expected category.  The excess deaths right now according to what I've read is over 200k.  So your take is not only callous, it's objectively wrong on the 3 weeks worth not being excess.  But you don't care about the numbers, as you've said.  You are not looking at anything from a big picture, just wishful thinking that this inconvenient flu would stop interfering with your life.

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Planet Houston

Planet Houston 4930

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, GRHorn said:

This is semantics and just a cold numbers assessment, but 50-60,000 Americans die every week. So you’re looking at 3 weeks worth and I don’t believe those all count as excess deaths above the norm. It is a sad situation and I think we could’ve done better, but fortunately I think few would call those relative numbers apocalyptic. 
 

I’m sensing your emotional response is due to a personal experience with it. I’m sorry, if that’s the case. Just looking at it from a big picture view. 

Nope, nobody close to me has died. I’ve had some friends get very sick, and who knows if they’ll have long-term issues - but this response is not because of personal experience.

This might shock you, but a lot of people have empathy for people they’ve never met. Even people who [GASP] look different than them!!!

So, again - 🖕

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BurntEyes said:

See, I attempt to have discussion and admit ignorance with openness to being educated. You had the option to post this, present some thoughts on what the US could learn from it in the future and further discussion.

But instead you put a snippy comment, and post a link in a "ha suck it" facebook/twittee way that doesn't further mutual engagement, discussion or meaningful dialog. 

This is the exact fucking reason I have avoided this thread, don't normally want to discuss it and regret having tried to engage you. This is the problem in general in the US of our new Facebook/Twitter told you so, look at me engagement.

It won't happen again, but congrats on fostering such great discussion. I have a lot of thoughts and even noted some items mentioned in the article earlier in my posts. But you know, fuck all that trying to discuss things like adults.

I'm going to let this thread sink right back to the bullshit thread it was, thanks for clearing my head.

 

Jimmy might be the dumbest motherfucker on this board so that’s no surprise. Put him on ignore and try not to let posters like him sour you on actual discourse. 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Step ahead of you, but thanks. For the record, BT wins that prize over Jimmy, hands down.

BT will actually debate,  even if his ideas are beyond bizarre about his panacea of utopian communism.  Jimmy James (if that's who you're referring to) can't do anything other than throw lame one liners at you.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

See, I attempt to have discussion and admit ignorance with openness to being educated. You had the option to post this, present some thoughts on what the US could learn from it in the future and further discussion.

But instead you put a snippy comment, and post a link in a "ha suck it" facebook/twittee way that doesn't further mutual engagement, discussion or meaningful dialog. 

This is the exact fucking reason I have avoided this thread, don't normally want to discuss it and regret having tried to engage you. This is the problem in general in the US of our new Facebook/Twitter told you so, look at me engagement.

It won't happen again, but congrats on fostering such great discussion. I have a lot of thoughts and even noted some items mentioned in the article earlier in my posts. But you know, fuck all that trying to discuss things like adults.

I'm going to let this thread sink right back to the bullshit thread it was, thanks for clearing my head.

 

So I post an article you don’t like, so you run away. 
 

You obviously didn’t want to discuss South Korea. And still don’t. Why is that? 

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AngryDragon

AngryDragon 270

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

I would suggest starting at the beginning and looking at Chinese immigrant, and tourist activity I SK. I suspect, purely on suppositions of China/SK relations, that SK has a much lower number of visitors and business visas from Chinese citizens. Additionally, I would guess they shut their doors to China a LOT faster than other western countries. Same for Japan. 

But I could be completely wrong.

You're completely wrong. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

BT will actually debate,  even if his ideas are beyond bizarre about his panacea of utopian communism.  Jimmy James (if that's who you're referring to) can't do anything other than throw lame one liners at you.

It’s interesting to me that I’m so prominent in your head. 

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clapclapclap

clapclapclap 9000

Posted
Posted (edited)

Poll:  Americans as a whole vastly overestimate WuFlu deaths.

https://www.kekstcnc.com/media/2793/kekstcnc_research_covid-19_opinion_tracker_wave-4.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3HgPih2KPCdE8RUWogxBrn_yEMrNqDXdG16GYQPTj73Vkh23Jtb-tLH8U

p.24

Perception vs reality – the impact of Covid-19

Respondents across all countries were asked to enter a % for each category. The mean percentage is shown for each. Comparisons are shown on confirmed cases/deaths or, in the case of the UK, best modelled estimates of total COVID cases.

How many people in your country have died from coronavirus?

US - 9% - 225x confirmed deaths (CDC)

 

Every country surveyed overestimated by at least 100x actual, Germany 300x actual.  Of course there is a lot more in the report than just that question.

 

Edited by clapclapclap
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Captainant

Captainant 27655

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Poll:  Americans as a whole vastly overestimate WuFlu deaths.

https://www.kekstcnc.com/media/2793/kekstcnc_research_covid-19_opinion_tracker_wave-4.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3HgPih2KPCdE8RUWogxBrn_yEMrNqDXdG16GYQPTj73Vkh23Jtb-tLH8U

p.24

Perception vs reality – the impact of Covid-19

Respondents across all countries were asked to enter a % for each category. The mean percentage is shown for each. Comparisons are shown on confirmed cases/deaths or, in the case of the UK, best modelled estimates of total COVID cases.

How many people in your country have died from coronavirus?

US - 9% - 225x confirmed deaths (CDC)

 

Every country surveyed overestimated by at least 100x actual, Germany 300x actual.

 

That's a poll of regular people's perception of the pandemic. Not of the actual data. 

Are you posting this as support for the argument that covid is overblown? Not sure what this shows besides the regular population is freaked out about covid

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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Posted

I think it's very important to constantly gauge and critique perception and reality. It's not good that we think 100x more people are dying of this than are actually dying of it. That's not good. And those of us who believe this thing is real and believe we should be over-cautious in our approach, if we ignore things like this we just look stupid and naive.

Intake the information and think about why it's useful. If a troll is presenting it, then sure, say "fuck you" to the troll, but don't hide from the data.

-------------------------------------
Closely connected to growing public health concerns is how rife people think the virus is. Despite relatively low incidence rates compared to earlier in the pandemic in most countries (with the exception of the U.S.), people significantly over-estimate the spread and fatality rate of the disease. In Sweden and the UK for example, the public think 6-7% of people have died from coronavirus – around one hundred times the actual death rate based on official figures. And across countries, people think 5-12% of people currently have coronavirus. Perception is reality when it comes to coronavirus, and such views will be impacting consumer behaviour and wider attitudes – business leaders and governments will need to be conscious of this as they move to restart economies and transition into living with coronavirus for the medium to longer term.
-------------------------------------

We are being led poorly. I don't mean that in an exclusively political sense, but basically every institution with a voice is leading to this pathetic result among the people. We cannot make good decisions if our overall outlook is either "EVERYONE IS DYING!" or "THIS IS ALL FAKE!"

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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18006

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Posted

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/08/900494834/children-can-get-severe-covid-19-cdc-says-especially-black-and-hispanic-children


Despite persistent rumors that children are "almost immune" from the virus, the analysis of 576 children hospitalized for the virus across 14 states found that one out of three was admitted to the ICU — similar to the rate among adults. Almost 1 in 5 of those were infants younger than 3 months. The most common symptoms included fever and chills, inability to eat, nausea and vomiting.

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52489

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I think it's very important to constantly gauge and critique perception and reality. It's not good that we think 100x more people are dying of this than are actually dying of it. That's not good. And those of us who believe this thing is real and believe we should be over-cautious in our approach, if we ignore things like this we just look stupid and naive.

Intake the information and think about why it's useful. If a troll is presenting it, then sure, say "fuck you" to the troll, but don't hide from the data.

-------------------------------------
Closely connected to growing public health concerns is how rife people think the virus is. Despite relatively low incidence rates compared to earlier in the pandemic in most countries (with the exception of the U.S.), people significantly over-estimate the spread and fatality rate of the disease. In Sweden and the UK for example, the public think 6-7% of people have died from coronavirus – around one hundred times the actual death rate based on official figures. And across countries, people think 5-12% of people currently have coronavirus. Perception is reality when it comes to coronavirus, and such views will be impacting consumer behaviour and wider attitudes – business leaders and governments will need to be conscious of this as they move to restart economies and transition into living with coronavirus for the medium to longer term.
-------------------------------------

We are being led poorly. I don't mean that in an exclusively political sense, but basically every institution with a voice is leading to this pathetic result among the people. We cannot make good decisions if our overall outlook is either "EVERYONE IS DYING!" or "THIS IS ALL FAKE!"

If the population in general doesn’t have an accurate idea of what is going on, who is to blame?  You can’t control how or where Americans consume their information, but that far off for that many people means the information out there by and large isn’t being delivered well. 

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8817

Posted
Posted
If the population in general doesn’t have an accurate idea of what is going on, who is to blame?  You can’t control how or where Americans consume their information, but that far off for that many people means the information out there by and large isn’t being delivered well. 

Agreed
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Mole

Mole 4330

Posted
Posted

Humans aren’t very good at intuitively understanding numbers once they reach a certain size (both the humans and the numbers). It shouldn’t be a surprise that we aren’t accurately estimating how bad it is because that’s something we’re bad at.

Even smart, mathematically literate people are bad at this. I’m not sure we should read into these kinds of surveys beyond this.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

If the population in general doesn’t have an accurate idea of what is going on, who is to blame?  You can’t control how or where Americans consume their information, but that far off for that many people means the information out there by and large isn’t being delivered well. 

Unfortunately the correct answer to your question can’t be answered on this thread since no politics are allowed. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Posted
4 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

Poll:  Americans as a whole vastly overestimate WuFlu deaths.

https://www.kekstcnc.com/media/2793/kekstcnc_research_covid-19_opinion_tracker_wave-4.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3HgPih2KPCdE8RUWogxBrn_yEMrNqDXdG16GYQPTj73Vkh23Jtb-tLH8U

p.24

Perception vs reality – the impact of Covid-19

Respondents across all countries were asked to enter a % for each category. The mean percentage is shown for each. Comparisons are shown on confirmed cases/deaths or, in the case of the UK, best modelled estimates of total COVID cases.

How many people in your country have died from coronavirus?

US - 9% - 225x confirmed deaths (CDC)

 

Every country surveyed overestimated by at least 100x actual, Germany 300x actual.  Of course there is a lot more in the report than just that question.

 

That survey is worthless. Might as well ask 1000 people how far away in miles the moon is from the earth. 

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B00M

B00M 6415

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

If the population in general doesn’t have an accurate idea of what is going on, who is to blame?  You can’t control how or where Americans consume their information, but that far off for that many people means the information out there by and large isn’t being delivered well. 

With one side under selling it, calling it a hoax for so long (still?), it seems reasonable for the other side to over sell it trying to compensate for the short comings of half the country... 

Edited by B00M
They're all after clicks. It sorta works out.
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scottsins

scottsins 1966

Posted
Posted

So are we just ignoring the “excess deaths indicate underreported Covid-caused fatalities?

It seems like it because there are several assertions debated in the last 50ish posts that are dependent on assuming that the “Covid-related deaths” number is gospel, and comparing it to other causes, etc. what’s the caparison to a similar timeframe last year, controlled for populations?

Do the numbers just line right up?

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

I think it's very important to constantly gauge and critique perception and reality. It's not good that we think 100x more people are dying of this than are actually dying of it. That's not good. And those of us who believe this thing is real and believe we should be over-cautious in our approach, if we ignore things like this we just look stupid and naive.

Intake the information and think about why it's useful. If a troll is presenting it, then sure, say "fuck you" to the troll, but don't hide from the data.

-------------------------------------
Closely connected to growing public health concerns is how rife people think the virus is. Despite relatively low incidence rates compared to earlier in the pandemic in most countries (with the exception of the U.S.), people significantly over-estimate the spread and fatality rate of the disease. In Sweden and the UK for example, the public think 6-7% of people have died from coronavirus – around one hundred times the actual death rate based on official figures. And across countries, people think 5-12% of people currently have coronavirus. Perception is reality when it comes to coronavirus, and such views will be impacting consumer behaviour and wider attitudes – business leaders and governments will need to be conscious of this as they move to restart economies and transition into living with coronavirus for the medium to longer term.
-------------------------------------

We are being led poorly. I don't mean that in an exclusively political sense, but basically every institution with a voice is leading to this pathetic result among the people. We cannot make good decisions if our overall outlook is either "EVERYONE IS DYING!" or "THIS IS ALL FAKE!"

bad_teammate, 

 

voice of reason and moderation.

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Hefeweizen

Hefeweizen 5311

Posted
Posted

So now that this "flu" is causing college football to be canceled, I wonder why?  I mean, those 18-22 year old football  players have nothing to fear from this virus, or so our experts in virology have assured us.  So why in the world would it be necessary to stop football games?  Color me further confused about this pandemic.

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