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Kentucky laughs at Arizona's papers please law

bernorange

By bernorange
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bernorange

bernorange 8,366

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A bill pending in the Kentucky Senate would give police new powers to stop people on the street and demand that they identify themselves and explain their actions, drawing criticism from civil rights lawyers who say that would be an unconstitutional device likely used against minority groups.

Under Senate Bill 89, if a police officer suspects someone in a public place is involved in criminal activity or is about to commit a crime, the officer could stop that person, demand his name, home address and age — as well as ask to see his driver’s license, if he has one — and tell him to explain what he is presently doing “to the satisfaction of the officer.”

Anyone who refuses to cooperate with police could be detained for up to two hours. That detention would not be considered an arrest, so the person would not have the right to call an attorney, and no official record would be made of the detention.
...
Critics say Meredith’s bill would violate the Fourth Amendment’s protection against unreasonable search and seizure and the Fifth Amendment’s protection against self-incrimination.

Police officers already have the right to approach people on the street and ask their names, but it’s established that citizens can refuse to respond, said Aaron Tucek, a legal fellow at the ACLU of Kentucky. If police can show reasonable suspicion that someone is carrying a deadly weapon, they can proceed to frisk that person, Tucek said.

But they cannot detain people simply for not identifying themselves or explaining their activities “to the satisfaction of the officer,” Tucek said.

“The whole section of the bill on detention — they can call it whatever they want, but Supreme Court case law is pretty clear that an arrest is not determined by whether you call it an arrest, it’s determined by the restraint you place on someone’s liberty,” Tucek said. “If you put someone in the back of a police car or if you take them down to the police station or if you otherwise refuse to let them go their own way, that’s an arrest, and in our country, you cannot do that without probable cause.”
...

More:  https://www.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article239389143.html

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13,050

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18 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

There is no way that stands up to scrutiny in the courts. 

Which courts would those be? A *federal judge recently threw up his hands when, ignoring a court order, CBP deported a student who was here legally with a valid visa. Perhaps we are entering a different era now. The era of "We are doing this. Come and stop us." And nothing happens. Consider it Phase 5 of the Trump Organization.

 

*https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a30627333/customs-border-protection-deport-iranian-student/

Edited by Mrs Whiggins
Grammar
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Goredho

Goredho 17,421

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10 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Which courts would those be? A *federal judge recently threw up his hands when, ignoring a court order, CBP deported a student who was here legally with a valid visa. Perhaps we are entering a different era now. The era of "We are doing this. Come and stop us." And nothing happens. Consider it Phase 5 of the Trump Organization.

 

*https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a30627333/customs-border-protection-deport-iranian-student/

Exactly, and who is going to go enforce a court ruling? 

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bernorange

bernorange 8,366

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Well, that was fast...

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A Kentucky legislator is pulling a controversial proposal that would have allowed the police to stop people and demand identification after being pilloried on social media. Senate Bill 89 would ...

https*//www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/ky-legislature/2020/01/22/police-powers-lawmaker-rails-marc-murphy-ksrs-matt-jones/4542998002/

Link is paywalled, so I didn't give them a live link.  Saw this in Google search results.

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Goredho

Goredho 17,421

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1 minute ago, High Plains Drifter said:

Goredho-- I stand corrected.

I wish you were right.

18 minutes ago, bernorange said:

Well, that was fast...

https*//www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/ky-legislature/2020/01/22/police-powers-lawmaker-rails-marc-murphy-ksrs-matt-jones/4542998002/

Link is paywalled, so I didn't give them a live link.  Saw this in Google search results.

Hey, you jumped the gun on that papers bill.  It’s getting some attention we don’t need right now, so we’ll need you to pull it ASAP.  No, trust me, I agree with you, but we need to lay low on this for now.  You can reintroduce it in our next phase of operations after the 2020 election.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13,050

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I looked around a little, and the state senator who proposed the bill, Stephen Meredith, said he did it at the behest of "Grayson County law enforcement officials after a number of local incidents showed the need for it." What type of incidents would those be? Opiod sales? The county is 98% white so it seems weird that they would be arguing it's illegal/undocumented persons. Was it a small flare to see if anyone noticed?

Dang, everyone around here fast on the keyboard. Hat's off to you @Goredho

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29,410

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36 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Remember when Freedom of Movement was seen as a basic American and Human Right? 
 

But tell me again about how the GOP is the party of personal freedom.

Well, you see, it still is. It's just that, to Republicans, "American" and even "Human" actually only means white people.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,383

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Someday in the future, the Ky cops will ask me who I am, and why I am in Kentucky.  And while I love to pick a constitutional fight, I'll love even more the look on their faces when I tell them "I'm Brisketexan, and I came here to shit on McConnell's grave.  Now, please direct me to the place in town that serves the worst chili."

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Js1

Js1 85,587

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5 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

I'd be more concerned if they asked for genetic testing verification instead of identification documents.

Not because of the legality, just because it would be incredibly complicated when all of the results came back the same.

BrotherCousinDad? 

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Underdog

Underdog 28,776

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16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Someday in the future, the Ky cops will ask me who I am, and why I am in Kentucky.  And while I love to pick a constitutional fight, I'll love even more the look on their faces when I tell them "I'm Brisketexan, and I came here to shit on McConnell's grave.  Now, please direct me to the place in town that serves the worst chili."

That's in Cincinnati.  In Ky, you ask for Burgoo. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12,271

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3 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

Remember when Freedom of Movement was seen as a basic American and Human Right? 
 

But tell me again about how the GOP is the party of personal freedom.

The GOP is a criminal organization whose sole purpose is to enrich the mega rich and itself by fooling a whole bunch of dumbasses, racists and olds into supporting them and their agenda.  Everything they do is with that end goal in mind. The sooner people wake up to that fact, the better off we will all be.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89,810

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Kentucky pulled it.  Guess the Deep State/Qanon/2A crowd got rattled.

https://www.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article239502963.html

 

Quote

After receiving criticism that he called “painful,” a state senator Tuesday withdrew his controversial bill that would allow police to stop people to demand identification if police think they might be about to commit a crime.

The Lexington Herald-Leader reported on the bill last week and it was greeted with concern by civil rights lawyers who say it would be an unconstitutional action that disproportionately affected minorities.

Quote

But Meredith said he did not expect an outlash against him for introducing the bill.

He said he has been subject to “trial by social media. It’s a modern day version of the Salem witch trials.”

Meredith said he has received emails and threatening tweets in which he has been branded a communist, fascist, racist, idiot, scum, un-American and “an old, wrinkled white guy.”

The hatred toward him, said Meredith, “would make the devil cringe.”

“It’s been a painful three to four days, Mr. President,” said Meredith

 

Picture of the guy

Spoiler

spacer.png

 

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 11,052

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Posted

 

 

he has been branded a communist, fascist, racist, idiot, scum, un-American and “an old, wrinkled white guy.”

I will give him this,  pulling off the commie/fascist thing simultaneously took some effort.

 

 

“trial by social media. It’s a modern day version of the Salem witch trials.”

other than he wasn't actually tortured or drowned. I'm sure that part of his statement was cut off by the lamestream media.

 

What is with old white guys comparing themselves to falsely accused Salem women?

 

 

 

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89,810

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7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

He's right, it sucks when people assume you're up to no good and you're evil without any evidence and then demand you explain yourself for no good reason. It's like they think they're Kentucky cops or something.

He's a hospital administrator (which opens up a whole 'other thread of what kind of administrator is he), who had been listening to what police were telling him.  It never occurred to him to ask the little guy on the street what they think.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29,410

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50 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

 

he has been branded a communist, fascist, racist, idiot, scum, un-American and “an old, wrinkled white guy.”

I will give him this,  pulling off the commie/fascist thing simultaneously took some effort.

 

 

“trial by social media. It’s a modern day version of the Salem witch trials.”

other than he wasn't actually tortured or drowned. I'm sure that part of his statement was cut off by the lamestream media.

 

What is with old white guys comparing themselves to falsely accused Salem women?

 

 

 

 

Comparing public condemnation for shitty behavior to the Salem witch trials should automatically be punished with torture and a public execution.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,383

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3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Comparing public condemnation for shitty behavior to the Salem witch trials should automatically be punished with torture and a public execution.

"He's a politician!  Burn him!"

Kinda liking this.

And I love how pantywaist cowardly politicians equate "being held accountable for their stupid actions and dumbfuck policy proposals" with "TORTURE!  WITCH TRIAL!" No, you shitsmoking mumbletyfuck, it's literally your job.  You fucking LITERALLY answer to the people.  Do good stuff, and they will re-elect you.  Do stupid stuff, and they will call you on it and toss you out.  If you didn't want a job that is AN ACTUAL POPULARITY CONTEST, then you should have picked a different line of work.  Which this emptyheaded smegma surfer should most definitely do.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13,050

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47 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

"He's a politician!  Burn him!"

Kinda liking this.

And I love how pantywaist cowardly politicians equate "being held accountable for their stupid actions and dumbfuck policy proposals" with "TORTURE!  WITCH TRIAL!" No, you shitsmoking mumbletyfuck, it's literally your job.  You fucking LITERALLY answer to the people.  Do good stuff, and they will re-elect you.  Do stupid stuff, and they will call you on it and toss you out.  If you didn't want a job that is AN ACTUAL POPULARITY CONTEST, then you should have picked a different line of work.  Which this emptyheaded smegma surfer should most definitely do.

Well, Brisket, it seems pretty clear to you and me but they are in a quandry. They can't go straight Godwin's Law because sometimes they literally are Nazis so they picked the witch trials and went full Salem. Funny they just don't get it do they?

I'm really glad that so many of them aren't that bright, however. While The Scarlet Letter is not my favorite Hawthorne, abusing that author for political gain would irritate me. The Wonder Book was very much beloved in our household when the kiddos were younger.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89,810

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

"He's a politician!  Burn him!"

Kinda liking this.

And I love how pantywaist cowardly politicians equate "being held accountable for their stupid actions and dumbfuck policy proposals" with "TORTURE!  WITCH TRIAL!" No, you shitsmoking mumbletyfuck, it's literally your job.  You fucking LITERALLY answer to the people.  

And so do the cops he claimed to have listened to.

Would have actually been good if this had passed - might have gotten a lot of Dems and moderates off their asses and to the polls in November.

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